How To Sound Like a Naval Historian 

You have to memorize the following: Battleship New Jersey is a non profit organization that receives its funding in part from the State of New Jersey…..

Some of this takes me back 50+ years on my first job in the piping design branch at the Long Beach Naval Shipyard. First week on the job I learned not to preface a ship's name with "the"; spell ships name in ALL CAPS (typewriters in use); define acronyms when first used. I think you missed one obvious telltale sign - don't refer to all naval combatant vessels as battleships. I see this all the time in the press. By the way, I think "uppy downy" is more commonly referred to as mixed case.

Never in my life did I think I would be getting an English lesson about naval history from a museum curator. This was a first and extremely interesting Ryan.

For typing in Italics on an IBM typewriter, you would take out the element. Put in the Italics element and type the phrase. Then back to the original element. And we thought that was amazing and easy.

One thing that grinds my gears is people referring to,the 16in projectiles as "Bullets".....

Ryan, I am so glad you pointed out what those of us with typewriters should do. Knowing the kind of people who watch this channel, we are definitely the kind of people to still be using typewriters. I know this, because I watch the channel and use a typewriter.

I’m glad to see you cover this. The terminology used in “journalism” on this subject can be almost silly to read. I do have to call you out though, Ryan. Since this is about using the right words… it is ‘VERSUS’, and not ‘VERSE’. That’s one that really gets to me. Where did that start???

Fun fact: The non-italic typeface is called "Roman".

Uppie Downey is a technical term.

I sat and giggled through this; THANK YOU for getting your nerd on and diving into minutiae - fascinating and CORRECT details - BZ BZ!

Only one slight criticism in the Royal Navy we serve in and not on a ship. Enjoy your stuff and I love the fact that you and your staff put so much effort into preserving that magnificent vessel.

Me, as a German, I would never have referred to Bismarck as "he". "Sie wurde versenkt", "she was sunk"....

Im a train geek. I tried to correct some mistakes on an article about a steam locomotive; the reporters editor said I didnt know what I was talking about as I dont have a 4yr degree in English lit. So, I get what youre saying, Ryan. Its why when I read an article, I go to 3 or 4 other references to confirm the info.

I was always taught, and in my advanced years I can't recall by whom, that the first time you "introduce" an acronym you spell out the full name and then parenthesize the acronym. This avoids confusion since there are so many acronyms, and many of them may be similar, or even contiguous with a completely different meaning of that same acronym by other groups. After that first "intro" to the acronym, then you can freely use it through the rest of that document.

You mentioned the LST! We of course also have Silversides.

I recently moved on from a museum job that included several historic sites. These sites included naval history, but also non-naval topics as well-topics in which I was better-versed due to my previous museum experience. In fact, you were kind enough to render assistance to our museum on several occasions in your role with HNSA, Mr. Szimanski, for which I was terribly grateful. My goal was always to apply the best curatorial practices (within our limited budget) to my collection and the best history and research to our exhibits and programs. In doing so, it was our endeavor to spark further interest in our content on the part of our visitors, and not make them feel like they were outsiders looking into a restricted, unwelcoming field. Perhaps this is not the same audience you’re addressing with this video. But I hope the museum audience was as patient with me as you were, and were not put off by a wayward “the.”

I hereby nominate "uppy-downy" to replace references to non-italicized typefaces. Loved the video, it gave me flashbacks to high school when we learned the basics of writing papers. You drop a lot of knowledge adjacent to the specifics related to your ship.

Bravo Zulu Ryan! This is one of the most useful posts ever for someone like myself who dabbles in Naval History writing. Just for a personal presence, I like to capitalize Battleship when I use it in a sentence to pay respect to the Capital Ships they truly are. One day I hope to make it up from Florida to meet you and tour Jersey Girl and make it up to Big Mamie in person. I’ve toured every other Battleship numerous times. Cheers! - Wright Sublette

THE Ryan as spoken 🙂.

Working primarily with passenger arrivals (Ryan & Libby! You might recognize me from this), we find it necessary to often use "the" when referring to a ship; Albert Einstein arrived on the Rotterdam (italicized) in 1921. It helps the general public to understand what we're talking about. Rotterdam isn't as obscure a name as some of Cunard or Hamburg Amerika Lines ships, but you understand what I'm saying. Many of the British liners are prefaced with RMS which negates using "the" as an article, but it's especially difficult for the majority of the others. It would be difficult to type out or say; "The C.G.T. Line La Lorraine" every time I have to give a presentation.

There are SO many new phrases, names, acronyms, etc to learn working on a ship. I still get yelled at for calling it a "hallway". "IT'S A PASSAGE WAY!" "Fine, I was walking down the p-way by the starboard head by the wardroom on second deck forward..."

Great overview and “refresher” of proper ways to go about speaking/writing about naval history. I’ll keep this in mind when continue making my videos!

The interesting bit is that many of these rules apply to writing in general. Especially the last point about parenthesizing the abbreviation before you use it later.

Uh oh... Ryan's done read some article or book and saw these errors and was like, oh hell no... lol

This is in my opinion one of the most helpful videos you all have made to date! Not only does it help to explain correct writing for this subject, but also is a good starting point for both "using the lingo" and accessibility when writing. It's a really great point to bring up, and it can be quite frustrating when people miss the educational point of something just because it had to make some concession to a wider audience. On a similar note, it's also easy to see a novice writer when one does things like every time they mention something with a long name and write out the whole thing. The sentence, "The Subaru Impreza WRX STI dove into the corner at high speed." is incredibly clunky and could've easily been served with "the car" or "the Impreza" or similar. Detail is great, but as you say, use it sparingly and the rule of introduce then shorthand.

Very well explained, Ryan. As a German with naval background and an amateur naval historian, I note that this is in line with the regulations of (today's) German Navy. A little nitpicking on the side: BISMARCK is female in German-language naval history literature! Only her Commanding Officert, Kapitän zur See Lindemann, wanted BISMARCK to be a male ship, but both the crew and the Admiralty said otherwise.

As an academic in English, nice crash course on usage and much appreciated. The convention of giving the full acronym followed by parentheses the first time, and then using the acronym, is a good thing to give people. If people followed this, it would clear up a lot for their audiences. The pronouns, well, we know a lot more about the implications of usage now, so there can be perfectly legitimate reasons to depersonalize and de-gender a thing. There's currently a debate going on on a Sierra Nevada fan and visitor page over usage. An insight I would add from over there is that audience matters a lot in how you use things: formal versus informal, lay versus technical. It's something you allude to, but it's good to be conscious of in usage. I say the "Sierras" all the time, since we informally refer to mountain ranges as countable plurals in general (like "the Rockies"), but in academic literature, it's treated as a non-count singular, "the Sierra" in deference to the name, Sierra Nevada, being non-count. The problem is that the usage then gets weaponized, and I don't think gatekeeping is the result you want here. It sounds like more of an educational project. The place I would consider using the definite article "the" would be when talking informally about Battleship Iowa. The technical nomenclature is clear enough, but in informal usage, the article signals a single, specific noun, which would distinguish the specific usage from the general class of battleships: "the Iowa" versus "an Iowa" or even "Iowas."

Thanks Ryan!! I did learn quite a bit when I type about naval stuff. Now to remember it. Will there be a spot quiz next week? Having served in both USAF and MI Army National Guard, I sure learned a lot about language used by both branches. I joke I am military bi-lingual! In Iraq, in the Guard (using the dreaded "the" I know!) I impressed two Navy officers when I addressed them by their correct rank first try. The more you know about all branches while serving is a plus. I admit I am no expert. Keep up the good work!

using a typewriter, to indicate italics to the printer/typesetter , the proper manner would be to underline (underscore, if you prefer) the words, much as one would do to indicate the title of a book.

Most important thing is to write appropriately for your audience. Journalists aren't "wrong" for the way they write about ships, they're just writing for a different audience, using a style guide that's appropriate for that audience and the publication's attempts to produce a consistent "voice" across many writers and subjects. That's why it's appropriate for the museum to use more widely-recognised terminology, since outreach and education of a broader audience is the purpose of a museum. Also, the word you were struggling to find is Roman/Regular/Upright for describing non-italics. It's a fairly semi-serious joke/rule that to use emphasis you should use italics, if the body is in italics already then use roman, if you can't use italics then use capitals, and if you want to be seen as a clueless amateur... use bold.

I don't dispute that historians omit "the" when naming a ship. I wonder what fraction of the sailors who served on them do. Early in my career I worked with a colleague who was a "plank owner" on WISCONSIN (BB-62) serving on her throughout her WWII career. He always referred to her as "The WISCONSIN". Also, I believe the Brits and Americans differ in that a British sailer serves "in" HMS VICTORY whereas an American sailer serves "on" USS CONSTITUTION.

Well it just so happens I'm in the middle of a research paper on the history of modern sea power! Thank you Ryan

Ryan, you mentioned acronyms. Another perfect example is the AN/TPY-2 radar system for missile defense. Air defenders like Habitual Linecrosser refer to it as the "tippy-2" so it can be easy to confuse it as actually having tippy spelled out.

Leading decimals for calibers that aren’t sized by fractions of an inch (".9mm") is not only an obvious sign a writer has no clue on firearms, but also no clue they have no understanding of basic measurements.

Way back, over 50 years ago, I read a book by Sir Francis Chichester, about his epic single-handed circumnavigation. In the construction of Gipsy Moth IV, he mentioned putting a second bathroom in, or, a head. For the longest time, I thought a head was a SECOND bathroom. (His context wasn't clear, and I was 11 or so, and not a sailor.) steve

As a pedantic person, I am quite pleased to learn the proper vernacular.

I always find it funny that people who defend precise language in their own specialty get upset that it exists in other specialties. Or fail to realize when people are writing/speaking for a particular audience (e.g. other historians vs. public outreach).

Speaking of naval history, I have a question about lighting. What sort of lighting was used in warships just before the invention of electric lights? Most spaces below decks would be pretty hard to work in without good illumination, but wouldn't lanterns (if that's what they used) have been a huge fire hazard?

USS THE SULLIVANS, adding the word “the” just to make this conversation more engaging!

Well, you've gone and done it. From this point forward, "Uppy downy font" is how I will think of it.😁

I believe a lot of these rules are included in “AP style.”

Don't forget to measure things in measurements using custodians. ie: the barrel is about one custodian in diameter

German ships referred to as male? That's the first time I've ever heard that. The only major navy that I've ever heard refer to their ships as male is the Russian Navy (and, of course, the USSR).

My Dad was Royal Navy for twelve years. One thing that annoys me with the use of the word 'the' in the context of the names of British and Commonwealth vessels is saying 'the HMS' or 'the HMCS'. Dad served on HMS Illustrious. When you think about what the acronym stands for and say it out loud in its entirety 'The His Majesty's Ship Illustrious' sounds terrible. Nobody talks like that. Indeed 'the' has no place.

A LOT of thr things mentioned here are appropriate for any type of report or technical document.

My biggest pet peeve when it comes to nautical terminology is the misuse of "anchor's aweigh". I can't count the number of times in movies (even supposedly navy movies) where someone yells " anchors away!" when letting go the anchor or throwing one over the side on a smaller vessel. I have even seen this happen in real life on private boats. The anchor is "aweigh" when heaving in (raising) the anchor, and after the chain or rode is vertical (reported as "chain is up and down"). As soon as the anchor clears the seabed and it is being fully supported by the chain, the anchor is then " aweigh"....ie..it is then "a weight" added to the ship. When dropping anchor, the anchor is "let go" and its weight is removed from the ship. Hope this helps clear things up.

Michigan has 2 museum ships and 1 WWII sub. Very cool....

Every set of blueprint I have worked with every set used water closet. They are not blueprints anymore, we call them a set of plans

Are we now learning to code ? Syntax is everything

Ryan, i think only Käptn Lindemann referred to Bismarck as a male. In general, germans use "die Bismarck" und "die Tirpitz", e.g. ship names are female like in english. Only the generic term "Schiff" is neuter: das Schiff. And so its compounds: das Feuerschiff, das Schlachtschiff. Cruiser on the other hand is male again: Der schwere Kreuzer (heavy cruiser). Non native speakers of german struggle with this all the time. Fortunately the latin parts of languages agree most of the time. Throw in some germanic and slavic genders and you are lost😂

Great job, Ryan. We won't mention times you've called a door a hatch ;)

You fool! You're giving away our secrets!

I didn't know "SeeWiz" was the acronym spoked, I thought it was an alternate to Vulcan/Phalanx. Good to know!

My fav! - High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (HMMWV) Colloquial...Humvee Also called; Hummer, H1, M Niner Niner Eight (Original model), Hum-Vee, or if I'm in one.....the party 'bus'. 🤘

Ryan is fun even when he's not being pedantic. ;)

Slight error with the definite article. You could correctly refer to _New Jersey_ as 'the Iowa' referring to the class of vessel which I believe is where the confusion comes from.

A University Major in the English Language here, who is has already gotten something wrong…. here,… I thank you.

I just want to thank Curator of BB62 the New Jersey , the Ryan Szimanski, whom curates constantly, for the lesson in historically writing gooderer. Now, halfing just the first opportunity to actually look up their name of the Curator for the first time I think he should half a video a bout how spelling his name because spelling his name is harder than writing like a navel historian.

Even though, I still call them her/she, the Navy doesn’t call them that anymore. You have to cal them it. You can actually get into trouble by calling them her. And this was in 02, when I was in. Can’t imagine what kind of trouble you would get into in today’s navy

One can also write the name of the ship and then write known as "ship" hereafter.

My indicator for competence is if the author says "battleship NY receives operating support ..."

Something that may have gone under many radars. The corvette Hindensee has been quietly towed away for scrapping. The place she was at just couldnt look after her. She's being broken ip as we speak.

I have a helluva enough time trying to write like an automotive historian...

The recently dismissed German Defense Secretary (Ms. Christine Lambrecht, 2021-23) described in her speech to the German Bundestag an Anti-Air tank as something "that shoots in the air with its large pipe".... That's Germany today. A continuous embarrassment.

Using an indefinite article before a ship name is not incorrect, thus the decision to use “the” in front of a ship name is a personal style choice. The U.S. Navy does not use “the” but many legitimate writer and historians do.

Hey Ryan, Interesting topic at 5:02 u said Bismarck is a HE in German language. In German usage, the battleship Bismarck is treated grammatically as "female". This is because in German ships are often referred to as female, regardless of their actual gender. This is a linguistic convention and has nothing to do with the biological gender of the ship. So please don’t say HE. Greeting from Germany keep up the good work

Interesting factoid about Bismarck (sorry, no italics here and all caps would be considered me yelling) - In German, which is both the language spoken where the shop came from and my native language, the ship would have been referred to as "she". All ships, regardless of who they are named for, use female articles in German.

People frequently incorrectly classifying ships really gets me. For example, calling a destroyer a cruiser, or referring to a combat system (like Aegis) as if it's a ship type ("an Aegis ship"). Or calling any naval ship with guns a "battleship." Even referring to any military personnel as a "soldier," even if they aren't in the Army. Ugh!! This is especially common with reporters, journalists, and so on because they don't know the differences, but it shows a lack of knowledge of basic terminology.

torpedo technicly kind of early missile travelling under water :D

The Strunk and White edition. Awesome

One of my biggest pet peeves is when any armed surface combatant is referred to as a "battleship". This has been done with annoying frequency to refer to any raft with a pop-gun in the Black Sea over the past two years.

The video is great. Thanks to the RYAN and the LIBBY. ;)

I have noticed this too; adding "The" to things, and it's very annoying to me. Even though the internet has been around in general use since about 1990, I have noticed that around 2000 I started to see "The" popping up. I think this is due because the internet is no longer a US club, Europe and Asia are becoming more and more connected. So these users are commenting in English, but do not completely understand English grammar, so they sometimes fall back into their native language's grammar. Another example of this predates the internet. In the 1970's and 80's, almost all consumer electronics came from Japan. The owners manuals were detailed and well written by the engineers, but the marketing people were not as familer with English. And so in the US they acquired the nick-name "Jing-Enlish". Correct spelling, but mixed in with confusing (to us English readers) Japanese grammar and punctuation.

I just had a flashback to a college class where they would deduct credit on your term papers for improperly written footnotes. I hate Kate Turabian.

As someone who has a work of academic history published, please tell me that you use the Chicago Manual of Style.

Great video but unrelated question; how were they able to "radio control" a battleship? I just read about USS Iowa (BB-4) being sunk as a target while "radio controlled".... How???

Sorry to see Chunk lost 😞 😢

This was an excellent video to help me double-check myself. Currently, I am in the early draft stages of my Ph.D. dissertation involving naval history and can proudly say after looking back at my rough draft sections, the only big no-no I do is the usage of "The" about half the time. One other thing I'm curious about is your take on how main guns are referred to. Is it better to say NEW JERSEY has 16" Rifles, Naval Artillery, or guns? I frequently refer to the main battery of a ship simply as gun since most non-technical readers will understand what I mean without getting overly technical.

you should do an episode where you talk like the guy from dark seas.

What if you are talking about a series of ships with the same name? How to distinguish them? How do you reference New Jersey if you want to indicate the era of its service?

I do hope to visit THE Battleship. LOL You're welcome. I mean the boat. That grey piece of sh*t sitting in the water. Navy vet, I'm allowed...

Ryan, in terms of getting the spelling right in an academic environment, would you use “forecastle” or “fo’c’sle”?

Oh nice!

I heard someone using the term roof for the overhead - oh wait that was you.

What about nicknames? What about naval slang?

Don’t forget the big azz caribiner on your belt loop

Ryan It’s Muskegon Michigan not Muskogee I love the 393 and silver sides

Dont' forget to talk alot about bears

Does this apply to the words nuclear and Missouri?

I remember several years ago our local tv news made at least a couple of reports about an incident involving an F-15. All the while showing stock pictures of an F-16. Talk about your editorial goofs.

Missourah -- MISSOURI 😁😁

On 6 APRIL 2024 there will be a new USS New Jersey (SSN-796).

What about a ship named for my alma mater, USS THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY?

It's hard to talk or write like a real historian because of the The-problem. I had to think about why there's so much tendency to do it. Best as I can tell, simply saying "New Jersey" might give the impression that there's more than one. I think that "the" is a ham-handed attempt at respect in many cases. Like how they called Lawrence of Arabia "The Lawrence."

Good video - I find the use of 'the' before ship names to be particularly annoying. This is particularly bad whenever anyone mentions RMS Titanic.

Are the rules of "Black Dragon" the same as "New Jersey"? Avoid prepositions and italicize?

Um. The Ryan just told me not to write the _New Jersey._ 🤭 There have been times I have been reading some article online and the ship names would not be in italics and sometimes I would leave a comment about it if it was otherwise well-written. Of course I don't always do it in RU-vid comments but there are comments from me in the past here on the channel where I have italicized ship names, I'm sure. I'm nit an official historian with degrees but naval history has been a serious hobby of mine for 50 years. I concentrate on both world wars. I have a ton of fun and the Internet has opened up a super candy store when it comes to naval history compared to the four or five library books we had with warship pictures other than the encyclopedia. Folks growing up in the Internet age are wasting it on shorts, selfies, and dancing to music no one even listens to in lingerie. 😉👍‍🖖‍🇺🇸 Thank you, Ryan and crew. Well done.

Pet peeve People calling the Marine Corps Marine Corpse Especially when they are reading a script.

Regarding the name “New Jersey”, could there be a new ship named after her by the USNavy or would alsorts of issues be dragged up

i would think the USS and hull number would be a clue that youre not referring to the state. plus, i dont know how ti italicize things in comments. not that i would bother if i could lol. i mean, technically anything that can be propelled is a missile. (and they dont call the hittles for a reason!!!) fascinating none the less!