We had a situation where our wonderful pastor of 10 years died suddenly. The replacement had never officially held a pastoral position before and continually made us feel sorry for the abusive congregations that didn't accept him or complained about him. We were in the trauma of loss and trying to be polite, and we were also being groomed to feel sorry for him. We couldn't see the red flags but noticed some concerning habits in the pulpit, claims that God said this or that but a complete lack of knowledge in the Word. This went on for a year. Looking back, we could see him surrounding himself with those who would validate without question and his efforts to remove or push out the elders and leaders that served well in the church. It ended very badly, and our congregation was labeled as trouble makers within the gossip vines of our state. I have a video of the Sunday morning our narcissist crossed the line, and even a year later feel the need to keep it in case the higher-up leaders will ever reevaluate the turmoil that year caused. The narcissistic pastor has been unfortunately assigned to another church since then. I read once that in business a narcissist only needs to interview well with those above, but the true signs of trouble can be found in those who worked directly under. I think that needs to be considered when troubles come in church leadership.
Christian leader on you tube. You tube is the perfect stage for a religious narcissist!!! They completely control the narrative and the audience (subscribers) by removing “the problem “ people. They even make videos invalidating Paul and doing a smear campaign on his character. Narcissist create smear campaigns to invalidate those that challenge Their perspective. False prophets challenge Paul because he wrote Ephesians 6-12-19. Principalities, powers, rulers of darkness of this age, spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places,
Just as ministry attracts narcissists, people are attracted to narcissistic pastors. One the surface that pastor appears strong, powerful, and confident. The pastor says all the right things. Because of that, when the people around the pastor, such as staff, laypeople, and others, sense that something is not right they will second guess themselves. They may even have been coached not to not question spiritual authority or raise their hand against "God's anointed".
Yes!! They have that "too good to be true" initial quality of a narcissist. I finally realized that all the spiritual things he was calling "us" to do, were not applicable to him. When we we told to be patient and loving with the brethren, it meant, put up with things we saw as wrong in him and the church as he ran it.
10 years in a church with a pastor who was playing a game no one else knew about. We just felt increasingly depressed and agitated. The pastoral ministry is a magnet for the narcissist. Closed system where sinful people confide in him, making themselves a target for his manipulation and control.
@@revolutionofordinaries I wish I knew what a narcissist was while attending there. I couldn't confront him or complain to the elders about him. I couldn't put my finger on the individual actions he'd perpetrate because I could only view them as one offs. His actions and words were petty, and the person complaining would come across as petty. He isolated his victims, and with a phrase or stare, he'd let you know you were on his list. He mastered the art of the gut punch in broad daylight in view of everyone, with no one else noticing. Vindictive, manipulative, petty. He was above all who were around him. Even before putting things together, I knew something was off. His prayers were empty, he sermonized private conversations with people as a warning to them and others. He stacked the elder board with compliant, submissive people, who would never pick up on the poor behavior.
The other thing about a 501 c 3 churches and institutions is that they can only teach certain things and you're not allowed to teach other things and they can also be made to participate in things like ostracizing people and harassing people
@@christopherd6399 exactly what my ex church was. All young adults walk out of that church, and if they do not change, it is no use for God keep granting new young adults to that church, and the church will dwindle in 15 years.
Yes, was in a church like this 4 years. I was being slowly crushed. I felt such relief the minute I sent an email saying I was leaving. It took two years of researching narcissism and spiritual abuse, confusion, guilt, anger, journaling, talking, watching, ill health, stress, giving chances, and seeking God in prayer and scripture before I finally left. They have not changed yet. I learned many others before me had left for the same reasons.
I understand totally!! The life was being slowly sucked out of me. I would spend days laid up thinking something was wrong with me. If I hadn't lived it I wouldn't believe it.
Always LISTEN to your gut instincts. ( Your intuition) and you'll never go wrong. It's your intuition that keeps you out of trouble and it can save your life. Narcissitic Pastors do not want you to listen to your gut instincts because they know this will expose their dirty deeds. Ignore the narc. Pastor and listen to your gut.
I was in a church with a pastor like this . He is my uncle , I left after 6 years, being there was brutal. When I left half of my family was critizing me and my mother would berate me for "tarnishing her image". I cried many nights and felt betrayed for having absolutely no support from my close relatives. In 2022 I found a new church where I will grow and leave the past at the past
I think this is probably more prevalent amongst pastors than we want to admit! It's necessary that we all guard against the tendency to be narcissistic.
Some pastors are genuinely deceived through 1700+ years of man-made Church hierarchy. But when a man (a messenger) quotes 1 Corinthians 11:17 through 14:40 KJV to a "Pastor".... He's no longer ignorant of how God has ordained the gathering of the brethren. If he doesn't stand down at that point then we should know it's spiritual Pride and God says he will not bring judgment unless he first sends a messenger. I have been such a Messenger, with at least a half a dozen pastors. They rejected God's word on the matter, and God did tear down THEIR church (removed their candlestick)
RELIGION (aka: a "state sanctioned CULT." e.g. The Roman cult = the Templar controlled Canaanite / pharaohic extended = NWO bloodliner "IH$ = Isis- Horu$ $et/h/ b" cult, today) were CREATED to: "mind, body and soul, control" the meek... so it's absolutely RAMPANT in EVERY profession(al) and organization(s) that attract those seeking: attention, validation, admiration... along with; power, authority and control, over others! (i.e. In: politics, religion, law, money changing, military, intel, mafioso, medicine, medea, academia, etc., etc.) This IS the "glue, that binds" in EVERY "secret society," and THAT is how they've managed to infiltrate, then "dupe and control" approx. 95% of the global population, for millennia! (It's a big club... And YOU ain't in it, unless you're a "covertly, made" man or woman = bloodliner, and also; "one of them!") Amun Ra?!
Considering that most churches mirror corporate America while enjoying non-profit benefits, is it surprising that personalities also mirror corporate America?
We were in a ministry with what I believe to be a narc pastor. We kept getting pings in our spirit that something wasn't right, and finally my husband said we've got to get away from this pastor. So we gave a resignation, and ran. We hadn't looked back. It has been 10 years, and we both see some good that came out of our time there, but the difficulties scarred us both. This church did eventually fold.
Jesus told us to be wise as serpents and I looked it up once and found out that snakes or serpents always protect themselves by getting away and avoiding danger. Good on y’all for obeying the command.
I lived with a narcissist, fell for another one, realised my Pastor was one too and a Christian friend. They all loved me until I stood up for myself! Needless to say I left the lot of them and now I feel peace for the first time in 3 years!
I was in a ministry similar to this for about 6 years. This leader would actually verbally abuse, degrade and be condescending to his members while speaking in the pul-pit😞 He would get upset with someone and stop talking to them, and then want all of the other members to stop talking and hanging out with them because he had stopped. He would even tell his members the nasty things that other members say about them. When a member leaves his ministry 😕 This leader would snap!😮 This leader called me yelling and screaming for liking someones post on their Facebook page, and for visiting another woman's ministry who he was the overseer of. Unbeknownst to me ,they had just recently stopped talking to each other (and I had no idea about anything)he went slam off on me. I felt like, just because he doesn't talk to certain people when they have a disagreement.....what does that have to do with me 🤔 Under this type of leadership it was ALWAYS something crazy and negative going on..I thank God that I wasn't a new believer at this point in my Christian walk, because I probably would have left and 'NEVER" stepped foot into another ministry ever again! It was just a Miserable MESSY MESS run by a messy, messy leader. This ministry almost broke me all the way down, as a matter of fact...( I'm STILL in the healing process). PLEASE, If you are in a ministry run by a narcissistic leader who's controlling, self absorbed, sarcastic, lacks emotional self-control, a pul-pit bully, toxic, self-centered, manipulative, a gossiper, backbiter, slanderer and they intentionally cause divisions amongst the people and are condescending towards their members...RUN as fast as you can. To church leaders: If this is your character repent, ask for forgiveness, get delivered and healed then start treating GOD'S little sheep better....If you have no desire to change, then maybe being a Shepard of GOD'S people is NOT for you or maybe GOD did not call you to be in that precious position. Peace and Blessings everyone
The entire "pastor" system is not Biblical. The model of the first-century church was a plurality of leadership, leadership in which no leader is above anyone. The leaders are people who "serve", not Lord it over the others. They lead by their example and by teaching. They have no "authority" over the people. Yes, they do guide but they do not intimidate, force, or have expectations. Based on my many years as a born-again believer, I have seen a lot of pressure to bare on others to follow the pastor. The attendees see the pastor as a sort of "god" above everyone else and they treat others as though they cannot know the truth because they are not the pastor. "Pastor" in the Bible is a gift and calling not a position or title. When the people of God listen to "leaders" instead of reading and obeying the Bible for themselves, they are going to be led astray. The Bible shows us the principles that show a narcissistic attitude even though the word "narcissism" is not used. It is 2 Timothy 3:1-5 describes it perfectly. It is a condition of the end times and in verse 5 we are told to avoid them.
@@TechCody113 The Holy Spirit is the teacher in every born-again believer. We listen to others share and expound on the word but the teacher lives in every one of us.
I left a church after 20 years. I got saved in that church but I became increasingly disillusioned with some of the stuff that was coming from the pulpit. In the end I was torturing myself to go there so I had no choice but to leave. I did not have blind loyalty to the church leadership, which incidently was a husband and wife duo. There was no room for any diversity of opinion and a lack of introspection on their part that sometimes they could be wrong. There was also an unhealthy aspect of manipulation, control and co-dependency which was often subtle. They also seemed to have spies who would report back to them if anyone expressed a negative opinion about them. In spite of that it was painful to leave and probably can be compared to leaving an abusive relationship/marriage.
I have changed churches. I have a much more sober and less idealistic view of church organizations. I survived and did not give up on my faith. The Holy Spirit (God's presence dwelling inside me) and God's written word are my number one guides in life. I think the most disappointing aspect of leaving the first church was that I was quite prominent in the weekly church prayer meeting where we really got stuck in especially praying in the spirit. This is the thing I miss the most, much more than the sermons which became a burden and were peppered with legalism and half truths. Only the truth will set us free.
This comment resonates so much with me that I wondered if we attended the same place. 😞 ironically one of the elders that participated in the abuse I saw had the last name of Hall 😅
@@KatePamplin-s7p I doubt if it is the same church as there were never any elders (or anyone else) with the same surname as me and I certainly wasn't one of them. Anyway, I have moved on and experiences like this, even though they can be damaging, are part of spiritual growth. I hope that you have also moved on and are wiser for having gone through something similar. I think this type of thing is more common than many believers realize and is a symptom of apostasy in the last days in which we are living.
We just left a church where the pastor is a covert narcissist. We only saw his wife at church 5 times in 3 years. She is a broken woman. I feel so sorry for her.
@anretta honestly, I still beat myself up at times. Or should I say, the enemy does. Like, "you should have stayed, you should have just kept putting up with it" etc My soul suffered for probably 4 years, trying to make a decision. Trying to make it work. Battling thoughts of "what will it do to my kids, those that we've ministered to, friends, family?" I kept ALL of the hidden misery from them all protected him and our family. When I finally told my dad that I had written a letter to my husband and got out all I wanted to say by reading it to him. I told dad "and I'm going to tell him if things don't change, the kids and I are leaving" My dad looked at me and asked "why are you just now saying something?" I said "dad, I'm just now telling YOU. I've been telling HIM for years. Begging him. In tears. And nothing changes." At this point I didn't understand covert narcissism, it was after all was said and done that I came to understand. Anyway, LITERALLY after 4 years of depression, begging for change, prayer, soul torture, I went to a women's meeting feeling so down. The woman speaking that night was no one I ever met or saw in my life. I needed something VERY specific that night and was praying for it when she spoke to me. Specifically walked back and spoke to me. It was in general terms, yet there were very specific things she said that I knew it was my answer. I knew God was releasing me, and that my kids would be ok. It was still all very very unpleasant. I lost friends. Lots. Because I never spoke up about the issues. I kept protecting my children. Rumors were spread. Things were said about me and to me that weren't true. But God has redeemed SO MANY things in my life that I KNOW could never have been had I stayed. His confirmation in my life is all I need to fall back on when I start to let the enemy get a foothold. I wish I could tell you so much more. If you ever want to talk...... I'll share
@@revolutionofordinaries thank you. But God has turned it so beautifully around and redeemed my life, I can't ever regret a moment. Especially since I have my kids.
So much of what you say rings true.....especially the part about confronting the narcissistic pastor. It is correct that you will get hurt more deeply, you cannot change a narcissist. Pray for them and slip away. We just left a church led by a narcissist and lost most of our friends in the process. It has been so painful but I have learned so much. I must say that God has been so close to our broken hearts and I am prepared to trust Him in the face of this present time of isolation. Thanks for your good words.
This is the best, well-balanced view I have heard...in fact, I've not heard another video on the narcissist in church leadership. I am a PK...was a missionary for 10 years. My childhood home was chaotic and traumatic...the mission leaders were physically, emotionally, psychologically, and spiritually abusive using God and God's words to justify it. I was sincere and naive. I have CPTSD ... its not as severe as it used to be but I will probably deal with it for the rest of my life. So glad to be put of that form of Christianity! The "world" is far safer than the Evangelical church!
Sadly I would agree with that last statement, I’ve never felt as unsafe anywhere as I do when I walk through the doors of my church. The Lords heart must break when he looks at His broken mucked up bride 😪
I agree 100% . Potential Pastors SHOULD get psychological evaluations FIRST BEFORE they become Pastors. Before they get the training that's when and where the psychological evaluations SHOULD begin BEFORE they get the training.
I knew a preacher that had a narcissistic streak. I used to mow his grass and often I saw him sit at a table and listen to his voice from his last sermon to perfect his delivery. And he would groom and dress to impress.
@@nathankinman7753 maybe, but it doesn't diminish this person's experience. It's not a one upmanship or competition to see who has the worst experience. Everyone's hurt is valid to talk about.
I exposed a fraud pastor few years ago, he was just narcissistic to the max, they have actually been changing there numbers to keep critics off there back
This is very well done. Thank you for sharing. As a pastor who has witnessed this, I am empowered to continue to help those who are walking through similar emotional/spiritual abuse.
I left a church a few years ago and have only just I believe diagnosed that the pastor had this personality disorder and fits many of the outward traits outlined. But I would add that the reason we stayed, 24 yrs under his ministry (and I mean under his ministry) it was because of our respect for his ministry. He was evangelical, prophetic and a good teacher, however not a pastor, his ministry was good a lot of time, however it would be interspersed with complaints about other people, sometimes insults during the preaching and reproaches. And we just thought it is his right to name and shame publicly. Years later I realise finally that a gifted person is not necessarily a godly person, the two do not go together and we are to judge by what the scriptures say about godliness and no person is an exception. Hope this helps someone.
I wonder how much of the Seeker-Driven movement struggles with this? These guys often have minimal biblical training and often are leadership/business driven. Their "vision casting" is what everyone most get onboard with, regardless of sound/biblical advise. They focus on appearance and showmanship and I think this can lead to seeking approval, etc. Often these churches humble brag about the pizza they just gave to the Fire station during Love week.
My pastor asked the choir director to sit down while he took over and started to direct the choir himself. This director was dumbfounded and appeared humiliated. He never came back, so now the keyboard player has to direct the choir and play at the same time. Then, a few months later, the lead praise singer was singing a song and the pastor grabbed the other microphone and took over the song. The singer looked shocked and embarassed. Now the lead singer is hurt and depressed and is hinting that he is looking for another singing gig. When invited guest pastors receive too much applause and amens from the congregation, the pastor gets angry and will jump up at the end of that preacher's sermon and sing a song (he sings very well) to receive his own praise from the congregation. He also takes jabs at and ignores people he's mad at instead of calling them into the office to talk it out. Everybody knows who is getting picked on because there's only 15 members in the entire congregation. When I joined the church a year ago, there were 30-35 members and only a few active departments like music, deacon/deaconness and trustee. When new people want to use their gifts/talents, they are given the runarounds and basically wind up benchwarmers with no active involvement in the ministry. If you do tell him what he did to offend you, he'll hang the phone up in your face. Then, if you distance yourself from him, he'll accuse you of holding a grudge and not following your pastor. You get slaughtered from the pulpit if you choose a career path that he doesn't approve of because God speaks to him about those decisions. And if you don't let him advise you, then you will fall on your face because you didn't listen to God's "man", he stated. But if you actually succeed in that career it's because you're chasing goals and dreams, you're materialistic, not focused on Heaven and not setting your affections on things above. The few members remaining has spotty attendance and visiting other churches. The environment is now depressing, hostile, decreased tithes/offering and rarely any visitors. People seem disgruntled and have lost their joy. The financial problems are so severe that it seems like the church may have to close its doors due to its debt exceeding its income.
I haven't left yet because of the threat of facing the extreme amount of guilt he lays on people he's mad at and the crypyic Facebook posts about the person. Also, the coldness and shunning by his clique or his "crew" who defends him as a victim and in turn, labels the victim as the "bad guy."
I am a church musician. The former pastor made life miserable for me for a number of reasons... not the least, he was always jumping down off the stage to do music with us. It was very awkward to segue and he flew by the seat of his pants (he was too good to practice which encouraged others in the same behavior). I was happy to see him go. He quit in a fit of pique and then tried to manipulate his way back in afterwards.
I don't pay much attention to the messenger as much as I do the message. I listen for scriptural reference and the context. I am weary though of men who refer themselves to as: Reverend, Father, Senior Pastor, The Prophet, and Rabbi.
I have had so many Narsisist pastors over the last 30 years !! It's crazy !!! They all did not know there identity in Christ but in there ministry ! They were very cruel towards people who would try to correct them in love !! They were Christian rock stars !!! My own children don't want much to do with God because what they hav seen and what they hav gone through !!! I thank God that he has led me to a really good church ! I have been praying for years for a good church 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 THANK YOU JESUS 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I knew a pastor that seemed to be extremely narcissistic. His conceit was “”oozing”” out of him all the time. He had that extremely proud look on his face all the time. I went to him with a serious problem and he fluffed me off. He didn’t really act like a Pastor. He reminded me of a fat headed movie star instead. He was the pastor of a church of about 1500 people".
Very helpful! I’ve seen this type of behavior at Church and an extremely nice associate Pastor and his family got told to leave, couldn’t get anything out his desk. Other leaders left! Some were verbally abused by the Senior Pastor! Something wasn’t done the way he wanted it so he let them have it! 😭😭 Some times you just don’t know what to in a situation like that but leave and never return! And never stop praying and believing in Jesus! Because God didn’t do these things a flawed human acted on his own, anger and pride got the best of them!😭
There is a difference between someone being a narcissist or narcissistic-i.e., someone exhibiting a particular set of characteristics or traits or behaving according to certain recognizable patterns-and someone having an official diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
That's a fair point. Personality dissorders are pervasive and consistent...across environments over a long period of time. Then there are just people acting self-centered but aren't that far down the trail.
No. Anyone can show selfish or narcissistic traits. Npd is a whole other animal. They are aware of who they are ( which is why they know when and where to turn on and off their manipulative games ). They like who they are and like to abuse others secretly.
So true about how it's natural that people are tempted to want approval and appreciation, but in my experience, I've seen top denomination leaders who post public FB entries every day, and allow dozens/hundreds of adoring comments, revering them, calling them by their top titles, calling them sir, Bishop, etc. These leaders never preach against the sheep over-praising them. They don't bring attention to all the compliments, yeas and amens, and all the "you are so wise, what would we do without you" comments. I've seen these comments and it's almost too syrupy and overdone, it makes my skin crawl, but the 'pastor' allows it and no doubt loves it, needs it, and can't stop it. A humble pastor would ask the flock and listeners, or posters to at least remember that he is flesh and many of his posts are opinions and that they should always give God the Praise, the Glory and the Honor. But they don't.
I left my last church because the pastor was a Narcissist. It's been many years since leaving the environment, but I haven't been able to find a home church since. Hearing about church makes me so hungry, and I miss the community. I just don't want to make the same mistake.
Thank you for this video. You've definitely done your homework on this subject. Churches MUST start being more careful about who they call to serve them as as pastors or even as interims because there are most likely many more narcissistic pastors out there than we think, because they wear the mask so well. They also need to have a healthy congregation who keeps their eyes open and makes sure that they are seeing their pastor honestly and clearly, not how they want to believe they see things, simply because he/she is a pastor.
Thank you MBS. We need accountability. Those who avoid or resist it often due so for these reasons. God bless you and thanks for watching. It is an honor to have you stop by the channel.
OOh boy!💯. You really nailed how this works in a Christian setting. I was an associate minister under a pastor and his wife that had many of these traits that you talk about. I know you said don't diagnose but he had so many traits you talk about and I worked with him for almost 11 years. You are also right that they create systems around them that support their behaviors. The only people that thrived under his ministry were sycophants and yes men. He managed to get rid of anyone that seemed like they were getting influence in the congregation or he would find some way to diminish their influence. Keep up the good work informing the public.
I converted to Orthodoxy for exactly this reason. After moving away from the pentacostal church I loved, I went to the same denomination locally and it was borderline prosperity preaching, including an appearance by the family of Oral Roberts, which would have been unthinkable at the other church. It was too much.
This is spot on. I left 4 years ago. I visited a few times as my Mum is there...but the same pastor. Some have left and apparently no-one knows why??? New people all the time. We'd been there about 12 years. My Mum doesn't understand when I was abused spiritually and stays?
When you see a toxic pastor, they may or may not be a true narcissist or NPD, but that's not the important thing to remember. If someone shows a pattern of abuse, whether it's subtle/passive aggressive, or it's overt, with verbal abuse, yelling, fits of rage, open hostility and the like, they are toxic no matter the diagnosis, so leaving that sick abusive environment is the best thing to do. We don't need to become experts on the "dark triad" of personality disorders, we just need to examine the fruit of someone's life & behavior over a period of time. Jesus said you shall know them by their fruit, is it good fruit or is it rotten to the core. That's all you really need to know, that and praying for wisdom & discernment about the people you let speak into your life. God's peace be yours in abundance!
Thank you for making this video and exposing the enemy who has crept into and within our churches all over the world. We need more awareness of this terrible and very real issue.
Glad the lord pushed this message in my direction. I’ve been wondering if I had a sense of pride, if there’s something wrong with me, or if I am just very passionate about God’s word. I’ve prayed to have my pride, if there is any, to be taken from me. Glad to know it’s not pride, or narcissism, but rather more so being confused but passionate in my studies. Still, I must be careful to not get a swell head.
This video has helped a lot in my understanding of what I am dealing with. While I'm still learning, I think I have a better understanding of the person I'm working with. When I became his youth pastor I was under the impression that we were going to work together, but in a few short weeks or months, I realized that he was trying to dominate me. At first, I would receive gifts on my desk after he would fuss at me over the most ridiculous things. For example, I used the word, matchbox car vs hot wheels, on a promotional sign. I got a 15-minute lecture and numerous sarcastic comments about how I should have used hot wheels because that sounds more impressive. After that, I received a lemonade from Chick-fil-A. This kind of thing happened several times in the beginning. He would have a meltdown, lecture me and then I would have a random gift on my desk. There would be times that he would just have random outbursts and be very negative and condescending towards me and the work I was doing. Eventually, I would start to be accused of things that I never did. I would talk to him about the accusations and try to set the record straight but each time I did that he would either deny it or say he doesn't remember it that way or at all. I started thinking he might have dementia and talked to my mom about it because she lived through that with my dad. She recommended recording everything he accused me of including outbursts or important conversations. That way I have the means to protect myself and give a clear account of the events in the case he accuses me of something that could cost me my job or reputation. As I did the weekly accusations, outbursts and the revisionism of events began to pile up. After about 10 months I documented well over 50 events of him accusing, berating, and blowing up at me both publicly and privately. This does not include events that happened early in our working relationship. So after many conversations and heartfelt requests to stop the behavior, I walked into his office after 11 months on the job and told him I had applied to work elsewhere and since then I have been given a contract that starts in July of this year. I will be officially stepping down from my current position on June 15th. It was only a couple of months ago that I began to research narcissism and found this channel and others helpful in understanding what I was dealing with. Thank you for responding to me and hearing me. It has been a difficult year working in this environment but I feel It has empowered me that it's okay to walk away. BTW, I found I can't take it personally because he does this to everyone who works with him. He accuses, berates, and belittles everyone in his circle but is shocked at this when I brought it to his attention. Peace be with you.
Thank u for sharing your story. Hope you’re feeling better, it will take time to heal but you’ll make it ❤ All the sharing really is insightful.! Will beware of all wolves
I find narcs have excessively high standards for other people but ridiculously low standards for themselves. I have a new boss. I suspected that she is a narc. Today my coworker was fuming about her and told me she believes my boss is a narc. Anyone who flatters the boss gets good treatment. Once at the opening of a meeting one coworker shouted out "Oh, Mary, you're SO pretty!". This worker gets all kinds of favoured treatment. I do not flatter. As a result, boss criticizes everything I do. So much of our work is subjective when evaluated. But I can do things identical to coworkers and mine is ridiculed in front of others. I find, though, that when I leave jobs, another narc surfaces at the new place. This boss was not there when I was hired. She transferred in. I know this is not about a pastor, but I am a Christian and seek Christian ways of dealing with narcs. This is spiritual warfare.....
It IS spiritual warfare. You need to pray to get rid of the evil spirit that is following you around. Some people don't have this problem. I did. I always wondered why is it that after I get rid of one Narcissist, another one pops out? I remember a time in my life, when that wasn't the case. I had a point of reference of what is a healthy life and I am praying to God to bring me back there.
My brother is a clinically diagnosed narcissist. He is extremely grandiose, self-aggrandizing, and enjoys mentoring others in the setting of his profession only to tear them down when they begin to show signs of success. He will make statements such as "I am so good at this that I should he writing the textbooks" (yet he doesn't) or "People who don't follow my example don't want to succeed". It's been sad to watch him flail in life, but I've pulled away from our relationship with him related to the excessive toxicity and personal strain the relationship imparts. He's twice divorced now, yet is VERY judgmental of others who are divorced. He constantly has to be the leader and the smartest in the room. He's a "super-star" in his evangelical church, because he and the pastor feed off one another's pathology.
Oh man, I experienced ALL OF THIS from an entire family, for about 20 years of my life. I was young when I met them and and never had the strength or wisdom to leave till about 4 years ago. I’m still not ok from all the abuse and psychological damage they did to me, on every front.😔 I could go on for days with the stories. I didn’t know anything about narcissism until it was way too late. I thank God I’m no longer in that situation now, but I also feel like I don’t know how to heal. These kinds of people are so incredibly damaging!
@@revolutionofordinaries I have. I think I went to the wrong person though, she didn’t seem to know how to help me. I have to try and find someone else who understands theses kinds of things. I just moved to a new state so hopefully I can find someone who can help me. 🙏🏼
Don’t think I knew anyone like this till you mentioned a minister shaping you and molding you into what they want you to be. Had a so called pastor try that years ago. He failed as a pastor and is no longer in ministry. Wanted me to pledge my life and finances and honor - to him!
I had a youth pastor that was a narcissist, not typical but I was too young to know. My brother is and was one as well. It's rooted in shame and aims to be the center of attention and controls those whom they are closest to. The control and the people around them is the key and listen to their language, controlling the narrative, always winning the discussion, etc...
I am the parent of such a pastor. It is very difficult to have a reasonable conversation with him. The thing I don't understand is why this happens. He yells at me over the phone, even after I nearly died from Covid. I wish I had the upbringing he had, because his was a good one. What causes this? I am in my 70s and he is in his 40s. I find it very distressing.
Hi Matt! I know, kind of slow with following you... Really appreciated this presentation. And you point out some interesting stuff! Terms like" career" and "climbing up the ladder" are so indicative of how ministry is viewed: It is a profession, not a calling. I retired a while back from my career in IT. Started as a technology specialist, ended as an IT project manager. I went "up the ladder," got a series of titles along the way...
Hey Rudy! Great seeing you over here! Yes...we have made it into a profession and it is hindering us greatly. I am hoping to help address that and get people activated and moving again.
It is so sad that leaders are what is stopping the gospel from reaching those that need it. Not all leaders but I can think of a few orgs where their whole leadership is filled up with these kind of people. They have kicked out or fired anyone who speaks up.
A church I refused to be a part of and my wife really liked, the pastor told the congregation don't tell him he's wrong. Yet, if they have an issue with the church, they are to go straight to him. I tried to explain to a group this is impossible and before I could say a thing, I was told I was not to "bash the church." The leaders instantly shut you down. These leaders won't believe or listen to anything you say. Just give your money, sit down and obey their bylaws. I am getting sick of church.
@@revolutionofordinaries A. W. Tozer said, back in the late 1950s, finding an uncompromised church is more difficult to locate. It holds even harder today.
I went through spiritual abuse for 3 years with my “best friends” who by the way never called me their friend, ever, and always made disparaging comments about me to others but I just thought they were being sassy and humorous. They were the preacher/elder/President of the Board of Directors at a private Christian school he cofounded… and his wife, who became the interim head of schools there. So much pain, some day I’ll share it. But the best thing one can do is be observant and if someone makes malicious comments, is in a seat of authority, and never calls you their friend after years of working alongside them… maybe just maybe they’re narcissists and you should start asking questions that dig deeper into their psyche. Or, if you’re like me, tell them you have to take time off to take care of your mom who broke her knee and they proceed to verbally abuse you for 3 hours and tell you it would be more honoring to work than take care of your mom…. 🤦♀️
One pastor out of a handful at this church I attend has told me that he'd rather have a certain person there who has a social title, at the church instead of me. He also threatens at times to ban me. It hurts my feelings but I know that my battle isn't against flesh and blood.
Had a pastor tell me after 15 years as a Christian, the Lord would not give me a ministry of any kind. I didn't stay long. Another who told his congregation that their leadership is not wrong. No humility required there. I wanted to such part in serving there, either.
I’ve had at least two pastors over the 40 years of my Christianity who I think, based on close observations of their words and behavior, are narcissists. And I don’t mean they’re merely narcissistic, but are true narcissists. I witnessed their pattern of lies, manipulation, self-aggrandizing, etc.
Pastor, You Rock and are the Rock we all need. Especially we need you now with all the Spiritual Bypassing some are attempting to use in order to silence others and benefit themselves. I will pray for them. However, we all need to make sure they do not "PREY" upon us. God Bless You.
I was involved with one of these narcissistic pastors, and almost married him. I was completely stripped of my faith in god and became a full-fledge atheist. Exposing these people is critical, otherwise I agree with the rest of your video. Thank you.
Sorry that happened too you but there are two gods one good and one bad. Satan wasn’t called a snake in the grass for nothing.glad u escaped that one just keep learning about narcissistic people they are everywhere the more u learn you will be able too spot them watch and observe people slowly they will tell you who they are believe them Ross Ross-berg the author off the human magnet syndrome book has some great work on u tube
@@tracemagace8434 actually, man was created in God's image. The problem you are having is with men who create their own "God" in their own mind, to conform God to their "image," instead of humbling themselves to His standards. In Luke 3 (I think); Jesus was tempted by satan to have "all these kingdoms" if He would just bow down to satan. If God was the narcissist who wanted to "rule" just to boost His own ego; Jesus would have accepted those terms. But He didn't. Instead He came "to serve" and not be served. He died on the cross for our sins so that we might live eternally. Now it is up to each individual human to decide if they wish to be a part of the kingdom of the Lord, or that of the devil. Furthermore; other people's character flaws doesn't negate God's existence.
I've walked away from 2 of such church situations over the decades. A common tactic I saw both times is that these pastors will also surround themselves with spineless yes men. Therefore, no accountability. These yes men may be gentle, able to teach, etc. But they have no guts to tell an off-track pastor there needs to be repentense/restoration, or a resignation.
Been there - the actions and what they say - their act - reveal that something is ‘off’ but until they target you for abuse that can drive you to suicide
In our Biblical end times today sadly most of "church" is corrupt, apostate and deceiving the flock. Jesus told us this would happen. It's not how many pastors are narcissists, it's how many AREN'T.
How about a person who put's other people down, making judgments without any interest in full knowledge, but not to make himself look good, just make the other person look bad. Example: If someone has a lot of knowledge he will call that person full of pride, or someone new comes to church who seems quite excited about the Lord, he will say that person isn't faithful and then treat him in such a way that he doesn't come back. Same pastor in conflict instead of getting confrontational, he just changes the subject. I was the sound tech in this particular church. This pastor taught me the sound board, but I started learning on my own and when I was becoming better than he was on it he took me off and put someone else in my place. When that person would have a problem I would go back to help, and he would come down off the stage and push me out of the way so that he would be the person to fix the problem. These are consistent traits. I am no longer a part of this church and have no vendettas. The man just irritated me.
My pastor lies about the smallest things and gas lights everything. When he preaches how can I see through the lies? Do you confront a pastor or just leave the church?
Just left a Ministry where the Pastor was cold, narcissistic, and verbally abusive. When I exposed Jezebel, the crap hit the fan, the last straw nwas today.
My wife and I left our previous home church due to the fact that the senior pastor was always boasting of himself, his achievements, his former career as a police chaplain and his family almost every single sermon. I noticed he would bring up incidents with his former church staff, speaking negatively of them.
Many are in complete control and the board has no say in the church decisions or spending .Making examples of people over the pulpit using slander and gossip to reduice those people and harm their character is very common . Everything you talk about is real .
What about bringing up the subject of Narcissist to a pastor, how will they react. I went to my pastor for help after Narcissist abuse, and the concept was completely foreign to him, he couldn't even put himself in my shoes. I was like wow where is his empathy, I was crying my eyes out and he gave me a tissue, then proceeded to look up scriptures in the Bible.
I have never seen this in any of the pastors that l have experienced.. l know that my friend Jerry. His brother was a pastor and he said too many of the people there treated church like it was a social club. It made his concerned. Since church is a place where you are uplifted.
Thanks John! I agree that we need to train against the dark side of leadership. Thanks also for subscribing! I hope and pray the channel is a blessing to you. Take care.
I have moved a few churches prior to settling down to a Baptist church years ago. As a team, we face quite a bit of challenges running the newly young adult fellowship in my church recently, largely because of the pastor. I started to notice he is not behaving like a pastor, like the many churches that I have been to, but I can't tell why, so I call him a rather "unconventional" pastor, until I see the video. The more I watch this, the more I feel afraid and demoralized because this is exactly what he does to maintain control. But wait, there's more: his daughter, who behaves similarly, defends his father's action, even justify his wrong doing, thinking that this is the only way to do things because he said so. Some actions of the daughter have started to divide the young adult fellowship. God help us!
@@revolutionofordinaries Amen. Please! One couple who has been deeply hurt by the pastor has decided to leave the church, and they were crying because they miss the fellowship that we built together so much and the new members are innocent and clueless on what happens behind the scene. The pastor's daughter and her husband (who submit to her) also rage quit the fellowship. In fact, the private conversation between the couple to the pastor's daughter's husband is relayed directly (perhaps with exaggeration and fabrication) to the pastor. The couple was brought to public trial, twice. Even though these incidents didn't burn me and my wife as bad, these are red flags that warning us to RUN. God help us!
@@revolutionofordinaries Praise the Lord! All other active members of the young adult fellowship eventually learned the ugly truth of the pastor and his daughter+husband. Since the pastor also unilaterally disband the young adult fellowship (after excommunicating the couple whom he hurt and was leading the fellowship) without have had a dialogue with other young adults, all of us decided to walk out of that church, meaning there are little or no young adults left. We then settled down at a Methodist church which needed help to kick start young adult fellowship of their own and they welcome us with open arms.
If a pastor cannot delegate authority and leadership run as fast as you can. 2 Timothy 3:1-5 describes the people to avoid. "But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these."
Before he retired, the pastor of our church "sensed" that people from the congregation should donate large sums of money to him so that he could build a new house for himself and his family in a picturesque country town. The elders dutifully sensed the same thing. In their defence, I genuinely do believe that they believed they were hearing from God. The congregation all followed along like sheep except for some freethinkers like me. I was just glad to see the back of him.
Incredible! Just why I had to FLEE a church. God told me to cut soul ties so i would HEAL & so He could correct them.. I was doing street ministry & an assistant pastor's wife was jealous. I was daily yelled at & put down for being anti-abortion & a conservative. I learned a lot about demons trying to take over & rule the church... she told me she was taking over the church, but Holy Spirit immediately Said, "It will never happen." I saw her stealing money.
Maybe she realised you were more spiritually mature & more gifted than her. Sounds like she may have seen you as a threat. I'm also v careful what I tell people. Some even pray against what you share, so it's best to keep your cards v close to your chest, so to speak. BTW I read last week that there are bad, dangerous people in churches, as well as good ones. There's many a Predator behind the pulpit...
@@susandumbill8805 I agree with you on every point. She told me she was taking over the church eventually, but she was not called by God to do that. She did feel threatened by my ministry & Told me to surrender my minister's license to the church. I said No & then the verbal attacks came. She & her husband are leaving the church soon. I'm really nice to them.
Thanks for focusing on this topic. I'm fortunate not to have encountered preachers who seemed to exhibit this problem. I know this is not a political channel, but as you spoke, I couldn't help picturing the recent ex-president who seemed to be the textbook case for almost everything you described. Not to mention the internet preachers claiming to be "prophets" who see that dude as anointed by God. Sigh.
Oh my word this dicribes our pastor to a T. Please pray for our church we don't know how to get rid of him. He has a set of groomed minions supporting him
I am attracted to confident people who are not afraid of responsibility. I like people who are not self critical like I am. What I don't like are people who are afraid of intelligent, cheerful people who have talent and ability. The difference between a confident person and a narcissist is the way they acknowledge another person's power. Thinking. I am attracted to narcissists until I realize they treat other people like shit.
Given their propensity to cause alot of emotional/ relationship damage, I am curious to know how you would deal with a overt or covert Narcissist (not in leadership) who joins your home church. So glad you are addressing this, btw. Thanks!!
Thank you so much for your reply. I agree. It really is difficult, though. Is there a time, though, when that person must be put out of the fellowship for a season in order for them to feel/see the gravity of their behavior? @@revolutionofordinaries
I have a neighbor like that bought a bus and his church painted their name on that bus he and his wife became youth leaders meanwhile his wife has been wanting to KNOW me for the last ten years!!!
At 3 minutes in, your first description of a Narcissist sounds just like King Saul, who when David is brought in to the palace feels threaten by him. Saul doesn't like it when the people say, "“Saul has killed his thousands, and David his ten thousands" (1 Samuel 18:7).
@@revolutionofordinaries really been struggling with this for at least two years and today I called my pastor out on it. I called him a coward several times to his face and then I told him what he did, and why it made him a coward.
My priest always thinks he is right. He hurts my feelings more than anyone and zi tried to talk to him and he wasn’t even open to listen. It honestly hurts so much
Jesus does not require self sacrifice and/ or abuse for salvation . He gives us wisdom , brains, common sense and discernment. I used to be married to an abusive pastor. I know that pain all too well
Big Wow! I've felt trapped in this "in the now" and praying for him and trying to figure how to exit as fast / smoothly, as I can. The uglieness and falling out of grace if you don't fawn/adore their every thought to word curses of what God will do to those that don't comply ( re tithe - he actually said God could/would kill ).. it's like a crack in his armor and it went from bad to worse so that it's spiritually abusive to even listen to. The "antagonizing'- and passive aggressiveness has become over the top...He gets a mic in his hand and subtly / NOT subtly, reams "not named" people but for sure at least "they" know ( and others ) and sit thru it. I've prayed for him, I've prayed for me and my exit..lol.. I'm sure in my exit I'll be demonized more but I don't see any way to fix it and it's gotten so ugly, it's a beating. Your video hit the nail on the head! Praying for them is really important but getting out of such a toxic situation is the priority now - and then recovering from that spiritual abuse. Thank you for such a spot on video!
Oh so sorry Noel! Please let me know if you need anything...that is so tough! matthewdabbs@hotmail.com God bless you and stay strong...the draw to stay could be strong. But it sounds like you know better. Praying for this person.
@@revolutionofordinaries @Revolution of Ordinaries Thank you so much! I subscribed to your channel - the timing and the laser point accurateness of your video described my situation better than even I could, being in it. You're right on the draw to stay - I considered myself a friend to him and to his ministry- so there's a real emotional loss but having crossed the line of "wondering" re stay/go- now it's more focused on doing it and minimizing any disruption, hard feelings, to others and quietly doing a turn around and keep praying for him in it too. I'm not even sure how it got to this place other than when seeing first red flags, there was no way to bring it to light and the red flags continued. God bless you and thank you so much for responding, your great video and I look forward to your other videos too! May God bless YOU! Thank you : )
The reason the seminaries and bible colleges don't screen for narcissism is because a high percentage of the staff are narcissists climbing the ladders of power. Most know the old saw when someone is planning to go to seminary is to ask them why they want to go to "the cemetery". All humor has at its core a kernel of truth.
Elizabeth I was married to a narcissistic pastor. He's a covert predator. To be in a narcissistic relationship 24 years with a narcissist will require counseling and coaching. This is not something that you can just pray away. It's been seven years since my divorce. I am healed. I am in coaching classes... and I still have a counselor I can't help anybody without helping myself first
Some of them are not even pastors while they are at the time being amateur sermon orators who only have lots of cash at the time to put into the collection basket while the for real pastor has a chronic health problem at the time only up until that for real nice guy senior only human pastor begins to start catching on. Senior pastors are almost always already well qualified enough to spot them soon enough. The weight of responsibilty on a senior pastor and their wife is sometimes overwhelming. Roles made far more difficult given how many people around now who are out hunting for what they call the JEzebel spirit.
I have seen this happen at a church I was going to. Higher ups in the church kept arguing amongst each other and leaving a church they had gone to quite a while. Yes I saw many many higher up wolves in this church
If they open their mouth that’s how you know because anyone who thinks or claims their spiritually above someone else is a narcissist. For sure. Religious people need to be avoided!
Seems everything about narcissism is incompatible with the Holy Spirit. To be born again, born of the Spirit, sealed with the Spirit (Eph 1:13) would seem inconsistent w narcissism. Some suggest narcs are just born that way...🤔 How could God make provision for salvation...not willing that any should perish...AND at the same time create people (narcissists) who are incompatible with God's plan of salvation? After 10 yrs of searching the webs I have yet to find one testimony of a narcissist who has confessed and repented of their sin. Maybe there is something we are missing...🤔
Those are good points. Humans can have a propensity toward various things even from an early age but it is up to all of us to resist our evil desires, whatever they are.
It is a spirit(s) behind it and pride, and the original sin perpetrated by satan that caused his fall was pride. he wanted to elevate himself above God. I think it's all connected to that and why it's so hard for people with this pride/narcissistic spirit to repent and be delivered. The ones i've known who have changed were humbled and faced with their own mortality and humanity. Only then did they begin to soften, change, not have such terrible pride, ego, selfishness, and ultimately able to repent.
That spoonerism or slip of the tongue ("fruit-spilled") at minute 7:38 may be right after all. The fruit of the Spirit is Christ's character, especially in the life of the believer. Yes, that character should be increasing in us as our Adamic traits in us decrease. The increase in Christ's character in us should be so dynamic to the point where it flows outward from our innermost being (John 7:38-39). At this point, the Spirit spills out from our innermost beings to transform other people's lives. May you, beloved brother and everyone else in the body of Christ have a "Spirit-spilled" life and ministry. 👍🙏
My father and my sister are ministers and both are narcissistic The best I can do is no contact. Perhaps I will be able to interact with them willingly in the future but I think they are evil and should be avoided
