Most skiers, even most pro-boot fitters would be shocked at how much forward lean FIS, World Cup and even elite freestyle skiers use. Virtually all of them are 17 degrees+ and Marcel Hirscher was pushing 20 degrees. When you crank up the forward lean, just STANDING gets much more physically demanding. When you crank up the forward lean, you have to then bend your knee more, and bend at the femur-hip socket more to stay in balance. Lower level skiers who increase forward lean and find themselves feeling too far forward because they do not know to readjust the rest of their body to stay centered on the ski. And if they do adjust their body, they may be quickly worn out. Forward lean changes require changes in EVERYTHING ELSE. So if you up your forward lean, and you feel out of balance, your ski technique may need to be adjusted. And once you do that, you may also be tired out by noon.
They did not tell us the difference between raising the heel with an insert or pushing the rear calf forward with an insert. What kind of "incomplete" half hazard, video is this?
Thanks for your video on forward lean. Any thoughts on the following. Feeling my right foot (platform) toe to heel pressure on ball of foot pressure but still pressure through the foot to the heel (whole foot), total control of turn. Friend commented that my left foot in left turn was behind the body not under it compared to my right foot. I don't seem to be able to find that stable platform under my left foot. I think I'm drawing my left foot back to pressure the ball of the foot, but then it feels like it get too far forward. Skiing in a Head 120 set up by a excellent boot fitter. Been dealing with this a long time without really fixing it. As you probably figured out I'm right dominant. Any ideas on how to experiment to find the solution would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
I have a Head Raptor 120 SRS. The inclination of the boot shaft is 16 degrees. This is not enough for me and I have to reduce the stiffness of the boot to 110 units in order to be able to bend it forward... I need a boot angle of 17...18 degrees because I ride exclusively in the front stance.
Probably long legged? When you lean, more of your weight is in the rear. Had this problem, modded my boot to lean more forward; and everything was balanced lol Great explanation here ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-90RChr1otpQ.htmlsi=FUZNfiAwAGkU00oc&t=189
How do you determine whether a spoiler is needed vs a heal lift/wedge to get forward. If you have to much of either does it have the result of putting you back to counter the spoiler or heal lift placing you to far forward.
Nobody answered so I’m going to take a stab. (Disclaimer: I am not a boot fitter, just an avid skier.) My understanding after watching a lot of videos is there is a downside to heel lifts, which is that they soften the Achilles tendon needed to drive the ski. Many racers lower the heel lift in order to engage the ski more quickly into the turn. Obviously people’s foot flexion angles play a role. As we age, most people lose flexion mobility and heel lifts become more necessary - which is why the industry puts 3-4 degree lifts in consumer grade boots. Yoga down-dogs work wonders for maintaining and increasing foot flexion so you don’t need heel lifts.
Found this disappointing: Guessing angles, (1'58", "probably about 5 degrees"). I know that's princely based on experience, but show your customers how they can tell the actual angle adjustment. Most skiers don't have great feeling of the ski or their boot through turns, so asking them to feel something more (than they're already not feeling) can be challenging. The woman that is testing her boots (0'30", with shims under the heel) has no ankle flexion and Bill doesn't every appear to notice. Ankle flexion will transition her mass forward completely changing the forward lean requirement. You needed to MA the same skier back to back, there's no point using Dave as the first example and then Warner for subsequent examples and then back to Dave. There's no discussion about using markings or tape on the spoiler so you can get accurate and repeatable positioning. I do like the theory of encouraging clients to play, experiment, and feel, but they might need more guidance too.
There is no standard way to measure forward lean. Different people could take measurements and have different results. One could measure a tangent from the heel to the top of the cuff, another could measure the short straight section just above the heel cup, a third could try to measure the actual tibial angle. All three measures would vary by multiple degrees. Unless you are a serious racers looking for maximum speed you are searching for a feel that maximises power, agility and comfort. The only way to perfect this feel is by trial and error. As you noted a more scientific approach could be useful. We can get very close to the proper forward lean in the shop by the following theory: 1. You want the tibial angle to be such that the skier can raise and lower their COM though a full range of body movement without flexing the boots, without bending too much at the waist or without feeling a weight transfer to the heels. That's what Bill was demonstrating in the video. There is a "magic" tibial angle that allows this. It is dictated by the person's mass distribution and body geometry. Bill was trying to find this "magic" angle using the wedges. We can then make the adjustment to the boot cuff, to the spoiler position or to the delta angle of the bindings. That's the starting point. From there it is just a matter of finding the feel that maximises power, agility and comfort while skiing. 2. You should not need to flex your boots to raise and lower your COM. It will not be necessary if forward lean is adjusted properly. Needing to flex the boots to maintain a balanced stance is unnecessarily complicating good balance by introducing fore/aft forces from the boots that change with terrain and would also require a softer than optimum boot stiffness. The boots should be supportive enough to assist the maintenance of balance until muscles can respond to an off balance situation. The stiffer the boot the less far out of balance the skier will be before their muscles can correct an imbalance. Of course if they are too stiff the skier will be tossed around by every irregularity they pass over and there will be little energy absorption. So if the forward lean is set up properly stiffness is a compromise between maximum support, energy absorption and comfort, not body position. However it should be noted that the stiffer the boot the more critical proper forward lean adjustment becomes. Dave D
Thanks T Carter for your thoughts. No disagreement that much more can be shown, but it's tough in a short video to present a comprehensive tutorial,. The main point, and one you noted at the end of your comment, is we want to encourage skiers to experiment, play and feel different setups so they can find something that suits them better/best. We certainly are happy to provide more guidance to those who want to delve deeper into the area. Thanks again for your comments.
@@daviddodge4750 I am acknowledging Dave’s comments as one of the most insightful synopses of boot-ski-skier physics anywhere in skiing. It is amazingly coherent and direct. Well done!
There’s good info here, but fails to address Zeppa angle and amount of material in front of the shin (such as with an Intuition wrap liner) - not saying this is an issue that you run into. But I find it problematic to discuss forward lean without talking about zeppa and footbeds, let alone without discussing bindings and toe/heel height. I get that 99% of skiers probably have no idea how impactful each of these pieces are, but I would hope you would be informing the public about all aspects of “forward lean” and not just the amount of rear spoiler that you are testing
These "geniuses" made a video and did not tell us where to buy these spoilers? where to get them? do they come in different sizes? nothing. We are supposed to be mind readers.
