How To Train Your Bird Dog. A No-Stress Method To Bring Out The Dog's Natural Pointing Instinct. 

Don, I don't know how I missed this reply until now, but thank you so much.

Thanks Afzaal!

Thank you so much. What bird hunting opportunities do you have in Belgium?

I couldn't agree more. And I'm trying to duplicate in my bird field what you have in the Dakotas: WILD BIRDS!

Thanks Ruven. Glad you enjoyed it.

Thanks. I have one that I'll be uploading in a day or two that showcases a few dogs from my local Quail Forever chapter taken at one of their four yearly fun trials, but I want to video my young pointer learning whoa from start to finish in a couple of months. If there's interest, I might do a force fetch video too filmed start to finish with one dog so that you can actually see what can happen with some dogs.

Thank you!

Thanks. As noted below, I'm thinking of whoa, retrieve, and backing videos too.

@@Payton1221 would love to see more I have an 11 week old GSP and just started bird introduction. I found your video easy to understand from a owner’s point of view. I will definitely be sharing your videos. Thank You

Thank you so much. To be honest, the Brittany was causing me to pull my hair out but I think that’s what makes the video so powerful. All dogs won’t point the second or third or even 20th bird that they’re exposed to. But if you stick with it and give them enough opportunities, their pointing instinct should kick in.

Thanks William. Pigeons, launchers, and a solid, Solid, SOLID whoa foundation with the ecollar overlaid is a very useful combination for this type of work!

Whos it working out for you?

That's interesting. I've heard of labs that are not from "pointing lab" strains point occasionally too. My niece is engaged to a farmer with an Australian Shepherd. I think that his dog would point with a similar introduction to birds too.

@@Payton1221 I think with launchers training like you showed here I could have my Boykin holding point in no time.

I'm occasionally surprised thinking a particular day should be a good day to scent or a bad day to scent and I'm wrong, but launchers will work in winter too. Just don't allow bad habits: if she gets too close, launch that bird and say NOTHING. If it's a bad day to scent, then maybe she points fewer birds (maybe none). On a better scenting day, she'll point more but you should still surprise her with a launched bird every now and then to keep her convinced these birds are WILD ACTING.

If you don't have access to launchers, I'd try to get your dog into as many wild birds as possible.

Erik, I've not conducted any seminars, but I've worked with a lot of owners one on one, and I used to train for the public. I live in Southern Indiana just across the river from Louisville KY.

Thanks for the kind words. I have more books being printed now. Email me at payton1221@yahoo.com and when they're available, I'll send you a "money request" from PayPal: $20 and that includes shipping. Also, I have a new whoa video that I'm starting today that will follow one dog from start to finish so you can "sit in" on the actual training sessions and get a sense of just how your dog might respond too.

I'm using rollers. They'll home some but just not as far from their coop as an actual homing pigeon. And they're smaller too. If you'll watch my Steady To Wing & Shot video, at the end of it I show that launcher AND I'm actually going to give one away to a subscriber at the end of this year. Check out that video for more info on the random drawing.

I have a few books left. Reply or email me (payton1221@yahoo.com) with your email address and I’ll send a request for payment to you via email. Thanks for your interest. If you haven’t already seen it, check out that old video of mine of a 4-1/2 month old Vizsla that would point, back, and retrieve.

I have very few books left, but I’m getting more printed. I can send a request/invoice to you via PayPal if you want to buy one (I’ll need your email address). And additional videos will be released in the upcoming months. Thanks for your interest!

@@Payton1221 Great! Is there any way to provide the email address without giving it to the public?

@@austintisch2072 Sorry about that. Email me at payton1221@yahoo.com

There are a few things that we can do to make chasing less fun, but I never attempt it until after dozens and dozens of bird contacts. The Brittany in the video is a great example. He immediately enjoyed chasing, but after many birds, his pointing instinct took over. What I alluded to in the video but purposefully didn't mention was the whoa command. After a dog will point and hold for 30 seconds or so and after they've had one season of hunting and just enjoying the hunting experience, that's when I whoa break them and I overlay the remote training collar so I can enforce staunchness, or if they do decide to chase, I can quickly stop them to where they learn that it's just better to remain pointed.

@@Payton1221 That makes sense. Thank you for your response.

How old is your dog? How many birds did she catch? Are you using an electronic launcher? Is she running free or are you checkcording her?

running free...1.5yrs old...caught 4 birds initially...yes electronic launchers

Absolutely! I just got a pointing lab in a week ago for the trained retrieve, and I will be working her on weekends with pigeons and launchers for that very purpose.

I have a few more and I have another order being printed now. Let me know your email address and I’ll request funds ($20) from you on PayPal.

They're bred to home but you have to spend a few weeks letting them know where their coop is. You initially just let them wander out. Do NOT flush them or make them fly out because they often get scared and fly many yards from the coop and then can't find their way back. When you first let them wander out, do it near evening and when food has been withheld all day so they're motivated to come back soon.

I'm eventually going to do a video on the main launchers and the pros and cons of each, but my preferred launcher is one that's not even available anymore. It was called an E-Z Launcher and was one of the first ones made starting back in the 70's. What I like about it is that it weighs about half as much as today's models. I can go out with a bag full of pigeons and just one E-Z launcher (setting them as I go) and will set one out every 100-200 yards or so as I walk my "course" for a more realistic hunt.

I do that initially to speed up the process. The dog realizes there's a bird there and he's learning what doesn't work (jumping in!). When their pointing instinct is awakened, then I move the bird to other locations where they learn that jumping in never works anywhere.

@@Payton1221 Thank you sir

@@Payton1221 Today worked 5 pigeons in the launcher, 3 from one spot and two from another. Works great.

It's a bird launcher. At 6:25 on the video I caution that proper launcher introduction is important. For nearly all dogs, it's a very short introductory phase that can take as little as 3-4 launches done in the yard and NOT while pointing. But I also recommend that the springs be replaced or adjusted so that the launcher doesn't throw the bird more than a few feet in the air.

Not 100% sure what you mean by "bust that bird," but when a dog will point for that length of time that's when you can walk in to flush the bird. I'll caution you that when she sees your movement (because until now you've been stationary), that might cause her to jump in.

@@Payton1221 yes, I meant walk up after a period of time. Thanks for the reply

Your dog should be fine but there's just no way to predict if it'll take a dozen birds or a lot more before he starts pointing. If you watch my videos, all of the dogs loved chasing at first but then they loved pointing . . . for a while :D Then they loved pointing longer and longer and when I finally started killing birds over their STAUNCH points, then it made everything make sense: he points; we shoot! But if you're worried about him liking the chase too much, run him with a checkcord. Do not hold the checkcord to "force" a point, but continue as you've been doing by simulating spooky birds with your launcher. You initially don't want him to hit the end of the checkcord hard so run with him somewhat to ease the final stop. Over time, allow his "run" after the flush to be less and less distance.

thank you Mark! I appreciate your professional advice! I was thinking to just keep exposing him to the pigeons and launchers. I feel a lot better and your video gives me confidence .@@Payton1221

Books are $20. I can either request the money from you via PayPal or you can send me a check. Email me at payton1221@yahoo.com with how you want to proceed. Thanks in advance!

I don't think it takes anything special to grasp the bird's behavior as you wrote. After you've hunted for a while, you witness when the dog gets too close versus when they get the birds pointed like they should. With electronic launchers, we simulate that. And when in doubt: LAUNCH! In fact, you can purposefully flush one bird every workout before your dog even has a chance to point the birds. All of this will teach a dog NOT to point too close to the bird.

Are you referring to the launcher that I use?

@@Payton1221 yes sir.

I was using an old EZ-Launcher with Garmin electronics that I added and with a car lock solenoid as the release mechanism. Since then, I've been using the Dogtra launcher that I like a lot. Check out this video that I did comparing the Dogtra and the DT launchers: @@hunterlingo1215

I'm loading the bird in a launcher. I can literally plant three or four birds in the same location in just a few minutes by keeping a bag of pigeons with me. I load the launcher and then the dog gets into the scent cone and either points or doesn't. When they move toward the bird after identifying the bird by scent, I launch; they chase; and I immediately put another bird in the launcher and I'm ready for "round 2." :D

@Mark Payton Gundogs a "bag of pigeons".. that's an interesting phrase. So how do you avoid having your dog pick up the scent of the birds you're carrying and/or being so distracted by them that you can't really train? I'm new to this so very curious about how you go about bird wrangling haha

@@UNOwen-pe1bj Some dogs will show interest in the birds by jumping up on you, but you discourage them just like you would any other dog that jumped on you. As far as how quickly you can reload a launcher, start watching my "Dogtra vs DT Systems: Launcher Comparison" video at about 2:55.

I know of one pigeon breeder who sells me birds, and I'll buy from others on Craigslist too.

@@Payton1221 Ok, thanks for the information.

I use rollers and homers which cost me less than $0.10 per day per bird. You definitely need a coop. Even a small one that might only hold eight or 10 birds.

@@Payton1221 as an alternative, if i got a pheasant wing with scent and made it so i could raise it quickly (maybe up a tree) when the dog gets close, would that be a worthwhile replication? I wont get a pigeon coop done this year, and with bird season in full swing here in MN i'm just trying to help my newly acquired started dog understand what he's looking for and firm up his point.

Grant, you need to be doing what I'm trying to do with my young dogs which is to get them into as many wild birds as possible. If you've introduced the gun properly, only shoot the birds that he points. Ideally, you'd only shoot those that he allows you to walk in front and flush, but for a young dog, I think it's okay to shoot the occasional bird if he holds it long enough for you to get close to him even though you might not actually get in front of him. No sense in trying to simulate wild birds when you can find wild birds ;-)

How many opportunities has your dog been given to point? How many of those birds has your dog caught?

A number of birds like wild quail and wild porridge it made them fly

Every time when I take it for hunting. When he made them to fly i scolded him every time but in vain.now if it stop that for a few seconds 5 to 6not for long time he ran after pray every time

@@naveedahmed3315 Have you ever seen the dog point anything? Have you ever worked him on pen raised birds, and if so, has he caught any birds?

@@Payton1221 yes it points. A black bird having long tail he caught it 3 to 4 time who sit on goats but now i have separate d from goats this pointer. I search in best way but before my reaching it already make them fly. It stops on that black bird sitting on goats in field but i want to stop on wild quail and wild porridge. It make them fly. I can send my dog video if you have what's app

I have a few sellers in my contact list, but I check Craigslist on occasion too. I prefer “rollers” to homers, since they’re a little smaller,but with proper introduction to your coop when young, both will “home” to your coop.

It's to each their own, and the country has plenty of staunch dogs and plenty of steady dogs. But regardless, even if I wanted a steady dog I would let them go with the birds for a while (the two pointers in the video were just 9 months old). I like building or stoking that "fire in the belly" when they're young. You can always take the chase out of the dog (and you don't have to be heavy handed to do it), but if someone went too far, too fast, with a few dogs you could take something out that might be very difficult to put back in them. Thanks for watching!

@@Payton1221 With all due respect, that is very archaic thinking Sir. So, you can let a dog chase and then later when it has done so for a period of time, you "fix/correct" a dog for something you condoned/supported?!? I just sent a pointer home at 10 months - completely steady and retrieving - nothing new. This pup's style will leave you spell-bound - head and tail high, stretched out, stunning!! It's 2022 and folk still have a head-full of "This is how you will do this pup!" Good trainers will watch, learn, and see how to achieve milestones with young pups so that they actually gravitate ALL THE WAY towards the end goal. All of my dogs leave here completely steady and retrieving before 12 months. It's the ONLY thing I offer. This is not a leap for well bred dogs. It might be for some trainers. I enjoyed your training philosophy. It isn't THAT diverse from mine but then you pull the plug at the 1/2 way mark!?! Don't understand why you condone bad habits which you will need to "correct" later on? I know you are capable based on your video. It's the dated misunderstanding that you need to let dogs run and chase and...whatever to blossom. Then, later on, you have to fix issues YOU instilled. Some dogs don't take to that very well and you get exactly what you tried to avoid. Early development isn't about taking away style or intensity what-so-ever. I do this now for discriminating gun dog owners but I learned during my years trialing. Most of my pups ran in derby and most of my derbies ran in adult stakes, successfully. I did my fair share of winning horseback stakes from 1982 -2009. In trials, simply having a broke dog won't win squat. Your dog has to have what I call "Wow factor" in order for him/her to hold the judges' attention. Style on point is CRITICAL. I never traded/compromised that in my understanding of how well bred young pups learn. That has been my experience. I've judged a couple of championships as well, just to validate my credentials. For example, I was training with pigeons back in 1986 when everybody else was using pen-raised Bobwhite and saying, "Mah dawg ain't pointin' no stinkin' pigeon! He's a bird dog!!" Today, finding pigeons for training has become a real challenge. Hmmm.....?

I couldn't agree more with the steady to wing and shot. I'm yet to see one RU-vid video where the dogs are trained this way. I'm surprised that a dog hasn't been shot yet. I read Robert Wehle's book many years ago and his Elhew line were always trained in this manner.