This is how I started tuning reeds on Indian harmoniums and it is by far the best method. Safe, accurate and effective. I tossed all my chisels, exacto knives and whatever else I was using before that broke and jacked up many a reed. Sandpaper is by far the best. Glad to find this video endorsing the method. Well done!
What a great video, and gives me confidence to try. People like you and Rodney Jantzi are so inspirational. I would love to see a further renaissance in the reed organ.
Helpful and informative! I have been very hesitant to tune my organs, mostly because I failed to see how a reed scraper could be useful. But your idea makes it seem much more efficient and safe. Thank you very much!
Wow, very nice tip to post a video ! With your clear explanation the subject was treated easily, I would say that everyone would feel confident to try it after this video. Thank you again !
Thank you and glad to give some helpful tips. Replacement reeds can be obtained from other collectors of Reed Organs/Harmoniums quite often. At the moment I even have several complete ranks of various reeds. The fit is important however because some reeds are wider or thicker than others. Also, when you find that "missing reed," it will usually need tuning to bring it in line with the others. Hope this helps.
Sir - very nice video ! I sometimes thought of using a sand paper to tune my accordion reeds - but never tried. You have of course encouraged me. Another thing noticed is - when the reed sounds flat and the needle turns right clockwise - scrap the bottom and when it turns left, ie anti clockwise - scrap the tongue a little ! It is that simple for 'Me' now ! I recently bought a tuner and now I know how to go about it while tuning any reed that is off tune or got detuned by itself. Great . Thanks and Regards.
@@Musique3579 Sir - seeking just an opinion from you - can accordion reeds get 'detuned' if the instrument is not used fro an year or so and is safely kept packed/ bubble packed as prevention from heat , moisture etc I am rather intrigued as my Hohner Atlantic De Luxe accordion got detuned unexpectedly ; and just for an example only - 'C' becomes 'D' or C#, or even B , with some other higher notes (including a few piccolos ! ) also showing similar 'damage' ??? ( I am in super senior stage - incidentally ) I have never come across such a situation ever earlier regarding my other accordions - with an exception of some odd reeds which I could comfortably re-tune without much hassle. Atlantic is an expensive professional model and its getting ' de-tuned ' despite special care is - indeed intriguing ? Can it happen to an organ, harmonium, or other free reeds instruments in your considered valuable opinion ? Warm Regards.
@@38scsharma Hi again. Alas. I know nothing at all about these instruments, but assume that the reeds must have to be tuned somehow, but I guess I am just not the one to ask other than about Reed Organs. (Boy, do I EVER hear you about age.) It was quite a while ago that I made this video.
@@Musique3579 Thanks for your kind response - age etc. Will find out why and how reeds get de-tuned by itself for non- use for an year or so or is the Atlantic only one which has this peculiar phenomenon ? ( you still have been a great help) - Warm Regards.
@pumpingprog I use the Beeswax before insering the reed back into its cell. They can sometimes be quite nasty to get out 1st time around. Here is a very good idea for anyone who doesn't want to tune the whole instrument, and it will still sound well. Just pick out the notes that are furthest off and use the Sandpaper method. It will give you a fine up-grade of sounding much better.
I really, really appreciate your common sense approach to this. THANK YOU for creating this video to spare the hundreds of organs that have been butchered by very well meaning souls. I make up sticks that are about 1 - 2 feet long, an inch wide and just 1/4 inch thick. I cut the sandpaper so it fits all sides when rolled onto the stick and affix it with spray adhesive to the stick. I use 220 and 320 grit sandpaper on smaller reeds. For very tiny reeds, you can use a straight pin. The stick allows you a little better control. I love your videos. Stuart
Good and I am glad to hear this. Im KNOW I am not doing this in the "traditional way," but it has been working super for me and the voicing of the reeds is unharmed as well as the reeds ALWAYS coming through unbroken. Tip: For the very tiny high pitched reeds, insert a razor blade under the tongue as the 3x5 card at that point is way to thick. Thanks for letting me know of this and enjoy that organ now! :-)
Yes, sand lengthwise. Also, when the reeds get too small a 3x5 card is about impossible to slip under the tongue of the reeds. When this happens I use a razor and it does the trick perfectly. Not sure if the sandpaper is really polishing all that much. But it IS removing the reeds tongue of the weight buildup by sanding off what is clinging to the reed which cleaning will not do. I do believe this is the best way to save the voicing of the reed.
...yet another quality video from you Justin...thanks so much. Now all I have to do is find a 150 year old harmonium to restore...lol. Not likely in the state of Arizona. But if I do I have all your great instructions to rely on...thanks for all the hard work kind sir...
Thanks so much for this video! I was very nervous about trying to tune reeds myself until watching your video. I tried your method after cleaning the reeds in my organ and had great success! It’s so nice to play a reed organ that’s totally in tune. This is my 5th reed organ but the first truly in tune. Now on to the next one. Thanks again!!!
Wow. This is great news and I am so happy for you. It takes some practice and a "light hand" to get the feel, but it sure sounds as if you have it down great now. Funny thing, despite this video, some are quite angry with me and tell me it doesn't work, but then again, you should hear the sounds of what they have done. Glad this video helped.
I wonder if the people who claim it doesn't work were not following your advice of keeping the organ at the same pitch. Mine wasn't terribly out of tune, but the tuning sure made it sing more beautifully. I will say that I had a few notes in the very bottom of the bass that were noticeably sharp and required more aggressive work. I actually used a slightly coarser sandpaper on them (quite carefully!) but it turned out great. The organ was tuned to A-460.1, except for the Celeste of course. I like the sound of the higher pitch. I have an Estey chapel organ from the mid 1880s that is tuned to 435. I guess it is next on the list. Thanks again! And for the doubters out there, first calibrate your tuner to the pitch of your organ, and then try this. IT DOES WORK!
Actually, those who have admonished me about tuning this way know nothing about tuning other than using a scraper which demolishes their Organs. They also have a trap-door shut mind. Oh well, I hope they enjoy all the damage they have done. Funniest of all is that they are always begging to find more reeds. I am sure you can figure out why. LOL But reeds do vary in width. Next thing you hear is that they have broken a bunch of wooden reed cells. Lost causes they are. They jammed a reed too big with enough force to have broken the reed cells. Next thing I hear is that the Organ has been tossed to the dump. Reason? It was defective from the day it was made. Closed minded experts. Or maybe better put: "No minds left experts." But, it doesn't matter. I am doing everything wrong.
Just an additional note on calibrating your tuner to the pitch of the organ. Try several notes until you get the tuner to show perfectly in tune to as many as possible and then tune. I only had to tune 2-4 notes per octave after a good cleaning of the reeds. I think this is a GREAT method. If you get too aggressive, it’s easy to permanently damage the reeds. Thanks again for the great video!
Fantastic! Glad it looked easy. Just proceed with a "light hand" so to speak. It takes a while to "get the feel," but I am sure your Reed Organ will thank you very much. :-)
Hi and thank you ever so much. Right now if you are interested in hearing a fully tuned smaller organ, it is my main newest video presently on my channel page.. Took about 30 hours all told. Not only tuned but voiced as well, and ALL using my Sandpaper technique. Not a single reed broke and no metal was removed. (With age, Brass becomes more brittle.) I have seen a number of organs ruined by the person that has used the scraper.
I just tuned the 4' Flute rank on my organ. I was unsatisfied for a long time about the harsh, sometimes rapidly beating sound when this was in use. My 'Gstrings' tuner on my cellphone (an excellent app btw) showed that all reeds on the rank were flat, some badly. I extracted each and cleaned the mass of fluff and muck off and used ur paper/card trick at the root (VERY thin paper up at the top!) No abrasive, just tissue to wipe clean. What a difference! Sweet pure tones now, all harshness gone.
Hi. Never though of that. Come to think of it, I do it in all directions but with a very light touch so to speak. For the smallest reeds rather than using Card Stock (which won't fit anyway) use a razor blade. Hope this helps.
I forgot to mention that for the top smallest 4' reeds that I insert a Razor Razor. Glad it worked so well for you. The "purists" probably dislike me for what I came up with but oh well, it works especially well and I also have a Piano Tuners background of 40 years which I also put to use but did not mention. (The machines are great, but the Human Ear in the end does better. Rather exhausting work, but just do it little by little over several weeks. In the end it is well worth the effort.
Thanks so much for this video. I have an 1861 R. Burdett cottage organ (that somehow has a sub bass too) that I need to get tuned. Haven't decided whether to do it myself or have someone else do it, but this video is very informative. THANK YOU MUCH!!! =)
+yrlk You are very welcome and thank you so much for taking the time to write. You might want to at least try and begin with a few 8' pitched reeds in the middle area and see how it goes. Just go along with a light hand and you may actually surprise yourself. Otherwise have someone else do it but please know ahead of time if this other person can actually do it. Alas, I think there are precious few in the world left today that would even know how to do this. Best of luck to you and your early Burdett! :-)
@@ANDREWLEONARDSMITH I'm trying to tune an accordion which is how I came across this video. I like that you can slide the reeds in and out where as with an accordion they have to be waxed in.
Most interesting to learn is that after I made this video two others have emailed that this is the way they tune reeds as well. And, it works! Thank you for making this comment. Just too many reeds are hacked and or broken in the hands of the "Reed Scrapers."
@dibfranciss How I wish you had as many available as there are around here. Hundreds for sure and rarely a buyer. 99% need restoration and some people even give them away. So glad to hear of progress on the Shoninger. That is a great instrument you have. I will be glad when able to get the next Reed Organ lesson posted. All the best- Justin~
@Musique3579 Infact I've heard that it's best not to attack the metal at all unless entirely necessary. Reeds rarely go out of tune unless they have been damaged in some way, which can't easily happen because they are in sealed chamber. Usually they just need thorough cleaning after years of sitting around gathering dust and grime.
@Musique3579 yeah, that or just taking a very thin piece of paper (5 pound notes are the best if you live in the uk) and dragging it through the tongue of the reed. This dislodges dirt very well from the place where it affects the pitch most.
@Musique3579 Dear Justin, yes, you're right. It should be a dream to find a reed organ for sale here in Brazil, then to practice a restoration task after this very nice tuning lesson. OK, still waiting for another reed organ lesson ! I am doing some progress here with my Shoninger, and your video has been of great help !! Take care !
@Enofrappini YES.............there WAS a Harmonium for sale in your state about 4 months ago and the seller was mistaken and thought it was just a normal Pump Organ. The advt. was ong the "Craigslist." I seem to remember the price was something like 195.00 they were asking. It looked really good too! Thanks for the comment and hope you had a nice day. Justin~
As I played the organ, although vastly better than before, I still heard little 'niggles' !! I am amazed how very slight an error has to be, for it to be noticeable, particularly on certain chords. Even far less than 2hz error can be jarring at the higher end. I can now understand how it can take weeks to get it 'perfect'!! The 4' Flute rank is now excellent and I'm starting on the 8' treble Dulcet/Dulciana. I'll get there! It will sound better than in all the 26 years I owned it!
Thanks. I believe it is the safest way to go and I do not believe ever in trying to tune a Reed Organ to A440 pitch. Way too dangerous and Brass becomes brittle with age. Best to leave in the area that the instrument was around to begin with and have it in tune with itself. It satasfied everyone back then, but of course minds were not so nibby and scientific back then. For the very high reeds, insert a razor Blade under the tongue. I should have mentioned this. Thank you for your comment.
The main reason why people might want to tune a reed organ to standard pitch is because they want to play it along with other instruments. I have one which is pretty close to a quarter step sharp, meaning it is impossible to play it along with a piano since its notes fall midway between all the piano notes. I have not attempted to do anything with the reeds, but I was hoping there was a way to safely retune to standard pitch, perhaps by adding material which could be removed without damaging the reed.
@Musique3579 Very courageous lesson! I feel more confident to try it myself now! Regarding the wax. The technical manuals for Wurlitzer electric pianos which use somewhat similar reeds although they are struck instead of air blown recommend using beeswax for fine tuning.
Well, if it makes you feel better I was once terrified myself. At 1st I tried my hand at "spot-tuning" the reeds that were off the most which helped the organ a whole lot and I found not the most difficult thing in the world to do. (Just a little bit at a time helps with the confidence.) :-)
Musique3579 I have not been able to get this to work... if I take away material, which seems impossible to do, is the pitch supposed to go up or down? How long should this take to do a whole cottage organ?
@jawdust3 There are opinions about this from what you said to Ultrasonic Cleaning is best. Because I have a Piano Tuners background, I have yet to find a Reed Organ that was in tune after cleaning for the very reason I stated in this video. But, it took so many years to bring a Reed to this state. You must have lucked-out big time on whatever instruments you have found. Once in a while I have come across one that just needs a little "touch-up." But usually, it is a mess. Alas, my tuners ear.
@shabbesgoj Wow, what a very special compliment. Thank you very much. How interesting about using Hard Wax if too much is scraped off the reed. I am sure this is probably a last resort thing, but at least the old reed is still able to play. With all good wishes- Justin~
Originally they scraped the reed with a sharp point on the diagonal always, you can see the marks on the reeds. I have used an Xacto knife well enough. Any sanding or scraping should be diagonally done always away from the root never backwards to snag the little reed and break it.
@pumpinprog re: sanding direction... I think that, for the very fine grade paper used, the effect is more 'polishing' than actually leaving a visible grain in the metal i.e. a dull surface. However, it is logical to sand only lengthwise, at least at the root, so that any slight grain is not across the direction of bending, where it could cause an eventual stress crack to develop and subsequent failure. In practise, I suspect that any such risk is really non-existent. JMHO :)
I would be terrified to try that on my own. I know it looks and sounds simple enough. I would just feel aweful if I were to ruin the voice of one of those beautiful organs.
@tentreb You are most welcome and thank you ever so much for the comment. Now, if I can ONLY "De-mystify" what ever happened to my brains, that will be a reall accomplishment. LOL As always, so good hearing from you. Justin~
I was told many years ago that Estey tuned their reed organs to 440 pitch in order to be played with other instruments such as a piano of the same pitch. Wives tale? Can’t say but my 2 manual full pedal board Estey church reed organ is perfectly tuned to my 7.5 foot Kawai semi concert grand with a Piano Disc attachment. Only the piano has ever been tuned and not the organ or to it!! FYI......
Wives tale, at least for decades starting with the first Reed Organs. Reed Organs sounded better pitched higher, the various makers knew this, and their companies "made up" pitch. Increased wind pressure to activate the reeds to vibrate sounded their best. (These instruments were "tuned to themselves" so to speak.) Before 1900, "established Concert Pitch" for all fixed-pitched musical instruments pretty much varied from country to country. Something had to be done and A440 was adopted "officially around 1917 as the "Universal Concert Pitch" for all instruments. Of course, now and then one can find a Reed Organ pre-1885 that happens to be at A440. Not too common however.
Hi friend, how are you? I have a question. 2 days ago, I bought a Bontempi B10 reed organ, and the problem that I have, is the tune going to sharp notes, can I apply this process to tune my organ? Greetings from Chile!
Good luck to you. I forgot to say it in this video, but for the smallest reeds, rather than using card stock, use a razor to slip under the tongue of the reed.
That really shouldn't be that hard to find some replacements for one of those 4 octave portables. If you are a member of the ROS, just look-up in the directory other collectors in the UK. You are bound to find someone who will be able to help you out. All the best- Craig
@dibfranciss Hi! :-) Glad you liked this video and I only hope that some people that see this will not continue to resort to those destructive Reed Scrapers..............."unless" they REALLY KNOW what they are doing. Take care- Justin~ ps: Future Organ technique lesson WILL appear. Sorry it has been so long.
Hi Justin, I have a follow-up question: Do you recommend sanding in any particular direction? Horizontally across the tongue or along it's length and while I'm at it, do you sand in one direction or back and forth?
I don't know what you call it. It is a small bottle of white crystals/powder that came with the cleaner. Dissolve something like 1tsp of this powder into the water that has just been put in the cleaner. Sometimes I almost think something like a Clock Cleaning Solution would give better results, but I have never tried it. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
Thanks so much for this video! I am an armature restorer of Reed Organs, I am working on my 4th one now. I have never tried to tune one before, however, with the help of your video, I will now. My Question, you stated that you had already tuned the back set of the reeds, did you first remove the front set so both didn't vibrate at the same time? I have a new Korg tuner and have found the pitch I plan to use. Thank you so much for your help!
Yes. All Reeds had been removed and cleaned ahead of time. I began with the back 8' set of Reeds first with no other Reeds yet inserted back in place. After the back set was finished, the bottom front set of 4' Reeds were tuned which was what I was doing in this video. (At this point, all *tuned reeds* are left in the Organ as one goes along.) Best of luck to you and with alot of patience, I am sure that you will be able to improve greatly on how well your Reed Organ sounds. Please do not be too hard on yourself, especially when doing this for the first time. With other restorations and practice one develops a pretty good feel for being able to do this kind of work which apparently is just about a lost art in the world of today.
hey musique3579 i dont know if you know chord organs very well but if you do can you help me ....... i bought this chord organ at a garage sale and i didnt know what brand it was a magnus or a Hammond one it didnt have any of the same features as them and i want to know if you could help me find out what kind it is thank you
This is the way most of them were made and what was settled on in North America. In Europe was the Harmonium. They had the normal Pipe Organ 5 octave range. Just a part of history I guess. Exceptions with both now and then however.
Thank you sir! I haven't played piano in 50 years, but I bought a working reed organ, and I'm determined to learn. I'm getting removable key identifiers from Amazon, but I'm wondering in the setup of keys being different changes the whole key setup? Thank you.
@@ltcajh I wish I could help you on that one, but I have never heard of it before. Anyway, I hope it works out well for you and that you have great enjoyment playing your Reed Organ.
I know that tuning pianos you have to think about temperament because various strings lengths and such. Someone told me you have to do the same with reeds, but that does not seem right. Do you simply tune them to a given pitch across the entire keyboard?
I did this video for the average Reed Organ enthusiast in mind. They are not professional tuners as I have had a lifetime of tuning by ear...........the way I was taught and yes, doing a temperament gives the best tuning. These little gadgets however at least give an acceptable job and better than nothing. These old instruments were pitched sharp. I, (using my ears) do a sampling of about where the general pitch must have been and go from there. The Organ is thus in tune with itself and not at A440 Pitch, established finally in Europe and North America sometime around 1917. The wind pressure is geared for what the company tuned to. For those that desire A440 pitch, in my opinion have to take off far too much Brass from the base of the reed tongue to lower the pitch, and brass becomes brittle with age. The result is an more inferior sound and heavens only knows how long the reeds will last after this has been done. Of course, eventually Reed Organs WERE tuned to A440. I speak of the tons of all the oldest instruments before this came into play and reed organ quality for the most part was quite inferior as the Pianos took over the market.
I agree the pitch should not be lowered and a tuning is all it needs to be perfectly playable. I didn't realize the older ones are normally high pitched until you spoke about it. One I just acquired is in the 450 range and I have not cleaned the reeds yet. Enjoying your videos!
I'm so glad to know that you are in agreement about not lowering the pitch of the reeds, which in reality is doing not only a great disservice to the fragile reeds themselves, but completely against the companies that made these instruments. Those old-Timers *KNEW* what they were doing. Everything they did was *perfect* thought-out. I have come across 450 pitch before also. (Some have even been higher.) Wishing you the greatest of luck with your Reed Organ. Yes, they might take 100-200 hours for a total restoration, but once done play like a dream. Thank you so much for writing. :-)
Yes, it would, at least the cheap ones under 100.00. I have often wondered if the very expensive Ultrasonic Cleaners of 500.00 or more such as Master Clocksmiths use would knock everything off the reeds to a point that they would not only look like new, but because of this would once again be automatically in tune as they were when they left the factory. Guess I will never know as well as know if this were actually done if any harm would be inflicted onto the reeds. Brass as it ages becomes more and more brittle.
An old Reed Puller. If not that, a Paint Can lid opener can work out quite well. What you see at 4:21 I devised (made) myself. It is a long nail inserted into the wooden piece that you see. Both were purchased at Ace Hardware for a total of about .51.
Hello! I have an Etsey field organ, it is about a half step flat and I'd really like to play it with other intsruments. It's more flat in the lower register and the middle D is actually in tune... some higher notes are also in tune. I tried your method but I didn't see any change in pitch. Do you have any suggestions or thoughts? It's also possible I was doing it wrong...
Yes. When going into the area of the lower reeds, because the brass is thicker, you will have to sand much more of the tips to about 1/3rd way down from the tip of the reed. (Less as you go downward.) *Wait.* A full 1/2 tone flat? That seems very odd. I almost wonder if someone might have been in that Organ before you and put reeds back in the *wrong cells* by one cell off? Might be a good idea to check that out 1st. I hope this is of some help.
I'm not sure now. I tried a different tuner and it was sharp! I'm going to gather tuners and see what the most common pitch is and go from there... I was adjusting the lowest reed, but i wasn't seeing any difference, but when i used another tuner it was sharp, so my instinct is that the original tuner was no good and i probably overshot trying to adjust for it being flat, so i'll try the other end with a better tuner...
Nah. Nothing to be sorry about. Most people never look at the date of when a video was uploaded. I hear all kinds of things on videos up to almost 10 years ago. No big deal really. :-)
I haven’t worked on reed organs for many years. Sandpaper’s an interesting idea but I far preferred tuning them as they played in their cells. It didn’t always work and some would have to be pulled out..It seems everyone is relying on electronic tuners, using their eyes instead of their ears for tuning. ( I am now, officially an old man). Thanks for posting your video!
I used this tuning device because most could never tune using their ears and setting a temperament. By myself, I do it entirely by ear. I tuned Pianos for 40 years.
@1AGRIPPINA Hi Sweetie! :-) Justin owes you an email and it will be tomorrow for sure. Sometimes I burn the candle at too many ends at once. (I'll never learn.) LOL love Justin~ xoxo
