SOME NOTES FOR VIEWERS FOR MORE ACCURATE INFORMATION ON TUNING: 1. Tire pressure should be left default in most scenarios and you should just focus on getting an even contact patch (use tire temps, the inside tire temp should be equal to [outside + inside / 2]). 2. Differential should only really be focused on when it's very tight or initial acceleration is causing an issue on turns, it is better to balance the suspension first and consider spring rates, then roll center, as well as make sure your ride height is high enough to give enough room for bumps on the track. In the video case you really needed to go into the rear anti-roll bars and not the differential for tuning. 3. Turn-in understeer is a factor of the suspension / damping, you only use the front anti-roll bars for fine tuning to give it a little bit more turning on trail braking or give it less if your barely sliding losing the rear in the turn while braking. 4. You aren't even looking at how much the springs are compressing when making spring changes... That is really bad.. You can run into scenarios where in theory you could use softer or harder suspensions, but you are already using the full range of the springs so it actually makes the car handle worse. Such as if you want to lower anti-dive so you stiffen the car or use anti-dive tuning, but you end up stiffening the car too much and it's actually not using the springs at all and it's effectively just sending all the weight to the front anyway and making the anti-dive worse. 5. Roll center is arguably one of the most important functions IMO for tuning a car, not sure why that was not even considered, as well as adjusting anti-squat / anti-dive, as a differential is not as useful as anti-squat as you can improve out of exit traction while also balancing the car.. CAMBER: This section was really, really bad... You should only use numbers for the most part for camber tuning. If you aren't looking at telemetry you are doing this wrong as it's not really a matter of 'feel' except in scenarios where your car just suddenly loses grip due to positive camber. Vehicles need negative camber even at the peak of a turn. Camber affects your roll center, contact patch, etc. positive camber effectively makes your tire have almost no traction at all as it's using a very small section of the tire at that point. You want to adjust camber so at the harshest most critical turns your slightly negative camber at the minimum. There may be tracks with curbs where you want higher camber (nord) but if the track is flat then you want to just adjust it for barely negative camber (-0.1 -> -0.2) at the peak of the turn. In regards to actually driving: 1. You need to practice braking as your locking up your tires which hurts your stopping distance even with ABS, that is causing understeer into a turn as your tires are hotter than necessary and makes it easier to start scrubbing. 2. Your holding the analog stick too far over so you are inducing understeer as a result, if you turn in with the analog stick less it won't just scrub the tires near as much and you may actually get more grip through the whole range of the turn instead of just at the start.
I dont mean to sound rude or a know-it-all but how youre tuning your cambers is a bit flawed in practice. A better way of finding peak grip for the tyres is through the telemetry page. For the front tyres, using the "tyre heat" page; you want to try and get the Outer and Inner tyre temperatures to almost mimic each other while mid turn to corner exit. this will show you how much of the tyre is being used throughout the turn and can also be a good way of reducing tyre wear. The rear is much easier to dial in because youre not changing the geometry of the tyre via turning the wheel. and as such we can use a different telemetry page to help us find the correct camber (depending on the track of course). Using the "tyres, misc." page, youll want to watch the outside tyre's camber angles while going through the turn. the goal here is to try and make the rear tyres get as close to 0 degrees as possible without going over. I generally set them to be more on the average of all turns instead of on the outliars. For example: if a 99% of the turns max the camber to -0.04 degrees, then the one turn that pushes it slightly positive wont be counted for. the idea is to maximize footprint at all times without rolling the tyre over to positive camber. While doing all of these tuning using telemetry, you need to be aware that hitting any curbing will skew the information that youre trying to gather. So, do avoid curbs while testing. An easy way of tracking all this without going cross-eyed is to record your laps and review them later in slow-motion and pause the clip throughout each turn. Just some insight on removing the guessing portion of the camber adjustments. Happy Racing =)
That's really great feedback, thanks! I'm not really every worried about tire wear in Forza, only getting the amount of turn in and rotation for keeping the car pointable and stable. And this Countach is a pretty extreme example, because it needs a LOT of cajoling to get it to not turn like a pig 😂
Curbs are important to consider as well though. Tracks with curbs if you have too much positive camber on those turns it will cause instability and sudden spin outs. This is usually the metric I use for at least figuring out height.
I do agree with you, FM is more for a controller. But it doesn't matter if one uses a wheel, your tips are great, as there are a few people, like you, who shares their tunning knowledge, and FM new comers, like me, who want to learn it. Thank you!
So i been trying to find someone that not only tells you what does what BUT also shows what adjustments do right after. As im following you now step by step i shaved off 1.5 seconds of time so far at Sazuka. I just wanted to say thank you.
@@WheezysGaming for sure but as an ADHD person the way you presented this from what things generally do to showing the effect of what it does was very helpful. The only thing i do know is More Camber= More Grip + More Wear. Other than Tire Pressure and Trans. Explaining in a simple sense made me go OHHH that makes sense. Lol.
I am about 30% with my tuning have spent hours on each car I like. Your video has helped soooo much just the progression of adjustments in the order that you do, is easy to understand {logic of}. I have come back to Forza after the update and find it much better, also to be able to tune the car from the beginning is much better. {When it comes}. I have subscribed and look forward to more of you work.
Tuning from a 'baseline' isn't good practice. You should start tuning based on what the default tune on the car is and adjust it from there. There isn't a reason to massively lower or raise tire pressure if your contact patch is already even.. That's the entire point of tire pressure, just making sure the contact patch is even for the tire that is on the car.. Some cars have tires that need higher PSI, some lower. It's intentional in the game. Just make sure the center of the tire is about the middle in temps compared to the outside and inside. You only use tire pressure for under / oversteer in cases where you can't tune other parts of the car, which would be more so for real life scenarios or stock car scenarios.
Don’t put all your focus on turn in, focus on making the car drivable above all else, THEN you can adjust for more turn-in or whatever fits your driving style. No point having a car which you can’t drive on the limit as the settings you had at the end make that car impossible to push hard in corners
That's a very valid point. I mainly focus on turn-in because in circuit racing, that is the biggest variable that you can't just throw horsepower or weight reduction at. And for cars with massive OVERSTEER out of the box, you kind of need to go the other way, and reduce turn in.
Your front camber changes are terrible. Your initial turnin probably feels more responsive but the midcorner traction is significantly reduced by the lack of camber. Look at your times, they are consistently slower every corner after that change. Camber and air pressure should be adjusted according to the tire heat telemetry. You want the outside tire temps (left side tires on right hand corner and vise versa) to be about equal mid-corner during a long sweeping corner. You will need to add negative camber to prevent the outside edge of the tire from heating significantly faster than the indide edge. -2.0 isnt uncommon. This will cause the inside edge of the tires to be hotter than outside during most parts of the track, this is normal. If the middle of those tires are cooler(the middle temp should be the average of the inner and outer edges)increase tire pressure, if hotter decrease pressure. The goal is even heat of the tire from edge to edge but only on the tire that has all the weight on it, its doing the vast majority of the work. In forza caster doesnt go high enough to cause problems so ive never set my caster to less than 7. The advantage of caster is that it adds camber to the outside(weight recieving) tire while turning and adds positive camber to the inside tire (weight losing?😅). Both of these are good for maximizing front tire contact. Static camber is added because you cant get enough caster induced camber. Always attempt to increase front grip first. If the back of the car starts to slide around from oversteer you can easily add grip to the rear, then continue improving the front. I hope this helps
It's a good guide but I still don't get stuff. Like tire pressure... Even if it's perfekt, a car will under or oversteer. So how I find out if it's about the car itself or still tire pressure 😂
Generally speaking, if you make something softer (tires, tire pressure, springs) the car will have more grip. If you go TOO far, you will lose performance (you might have more grip, but your flat tires don't have as much circumference and so your car is slower, or the springs are too soft and you lose traction over bumps or curbs). Understeer caused by sliding on hard tires (like skidding on ice) feels and sounds different from understeer caused by excessive body roll (like the weight of the car is fighting the car in the turn), for instance. A good rule of thumb is to make ONE adjustment and see if it made the car better or worse. Over time, you will learn which changes correspond to which car behaviors.
@@WheezysGaming thanks for taking your time to answer. I understand what you mean, but I find it very hard to figure that out on a controller. Compared to assetto corsa for example the cars in forza have no grip at all which makes it very difficult for me to feel the change in behavior on controller.
Advanced tuning but leaves out all the Advanced tuning. We want to know rebuild, bump, dampening. You're car wouldn't turn in correctly because the diff had a bunch of decel in it.
You are setting up the car based on laptime or feel ? You are omitting alot of key factors : tire pressure - depends on suspension setup alot, you need to use telemetry to properly set tire pressures // Differential : theres alot more to diffs than cornering speed // alignement : this also needs to be setup by checking tire temps, this has huge impact on tire wear, temperature, braking and acc performance. You NEVER start with tire pressure tuning, its the last thinh you adjust once the chassis is done (susp, RB, damping and alignment). So in sum, your sequence is not good and you omit alot of information available in game. The way you are tuning must be extremely time consuming as well.
Both. If you understand car feel based on how it impacts things like your ability to turn in and accelerate through the apex of turns, then your lap times will improve as the feel of the car improves. All excellent points. The order for tuning in Forza in largely driven by the order in which you unlock parts for the car. You start with tires because that's all you can change at the beginning, and it makes a big difference to performance. You're right, deeper tuning into actual tire temps is also helpful, but that is really getting down into the last 1-2% of performance, where as these big changes will be the other 99% that makes the car more driveable and brings lap times down fast.
I recently got a Fanatec direct drive wheel, which I REALLY love for GT7, but my feeling are mixed for Forza. Forza really feels like it was built for controller. Plus I've been racing with a controller for like 25+ years 😂
I see.. You making a tuning guide when you play controller,manual no clutch.. And ABS because you cant be gentle with your finger and slam on the brakes instead of trail braking 😑
Really well? Hm... Go and search for Raceboy77 here on RU-vid. He works at Turn10, is a formerly e-sports man and drive with controller. He is the definition of controller driving and race intelligence. Never saw one similar to him.
I CAN be gentle with the brake, but the advantage of braking EXTRA carefully into turns isn't outweighed by how easy it is to over-brake and lose traction, so I use ABS for consistency.
You're off B class ( The lambo's class ) pace by 15 seconds on this track layout at the end of this video. These settings will not make you competitive in game. This just explains general racing theory and car geometry.
That's right, this video is about tuning fundamentals, not maximizing this car for this track. Even with a perfect tune, I don't have the pace on ANY track to be up with the top times.
To fix MID CORNER (NO excessive roll) understeer #1- add 0.1 pt to FRONT REBOUND #2- minus 0.1 from front ARB #3- minus 1.0 from front spring #4 add 0.1 to caster #5 minus (move slider left)0.1 front camber #6 minus 0.1 from Front Bump... 100% fix for me everytime if everything else is good and your setup isn't garbage
Nope, the car was understeering even while coasting through the turns. Yeah, braking while turning DOES cause understeer, but that wasn't the issue here. The reason to adjust suspension is so you can turn in FASTER without understeering. It's always possible to avoid understeer by going into the turns SLOWER, but we're trying to go fast.
You use no variation of throttle input. Its either 0 or 100% no wonder you get so much understeer. Also if you use manual with clutch, you can engage thw clutch in a corner which kills power to the rear wheels causing the car to oversteer
No, in RWD cars over throttling causes OVERsteer, not understeer. Understeer is caused by lack of front tire traction, not rear tire traction. Over throttling in FWD cars induces understeer by overloading traction on the front tires. And using the clutch to induce power off oversteer is a terrible idea if you are trying to be fast. The idea with tuning is to make the car compliant by maximizing traction, not to force it into submission by breaking traction.
@@WheezysGaming Sorry, but thats way to big a oversimplification. Over throttling can induce understeer for sure... for example... in a big lambo, on which the rear wheels are waaay wider than the fronts. Accelerating that car throws the weight to the back, which has way more grip than the front... and doing so, you overpower the grip of the skinnier tires up front which are nearly unloaded because of the weight transfer, pushing the car wide, or understeering. What you mean in your example is only valid when you car's engine has more torque than the real wheels have grip... effectivly powering over.... inducing oversteer. A good example was Jeremy Clarkson when reviewing the Ford GT. He took the car through a turn and tried to turn in the car more by giving it some more throttle..... his words: "... but such was the grip of the massive rear tires, I just went faster.... a lot faster..." Advice for better laptimes in Forza Motorsport: Learn to trailbrake to get the nose in where you want it... and learn to go easy on the throttle, especially in rear biased cars. Even with ABS enabled, you can still trailbrake.... try to brake as hard you can, without going into ABS. This will steer in the car much better.
The breaking is only terrible because the car isn't turning in properly. The idea is to put the car OVER the limit intentionally to find where you can make improvements. You can always avoid understeer by going SLOW into corners, but the idea with adjusting suspension is to be able to go FASTER into turns.
