How Vader Realized the Jedi Order DESERVED to Fall After Order 66! (Legends) 

The only jedi who actually listened to the force above the republic was Qui-Gon, and he was shunned for doing so

If the Jedi Order wasn’t so arrogant and blinded by politics, they would’ve seen Darth Sidious a long time before Episode 3

This is why the OG Expanded Universe is superior to Disney canon.

Yoda sensed it before the fall of Ep.3 He commented on it when the council was discussing having to take over power of the senate. Yoda realized then that their line of thought and conversation was leading to a dark place. He knew that something was off but just couldn’t quite put his little green finger on it.

I agree with Vader. The hubris of the Jedi, their association with the Republic, and their views on attachment DID lead to their downfall.

Revan came to the same conclusions thousands of years before episode 1, even warning the Jedi that reform was needed.

“The Jedi are going to lose this war and the Republic will be ripped apart from the inside.”

The Jedi saw many worlds trying to gain freedom, were presented with a slave army of clones, and had confirmation that the Sith were returning. Instead of looking into any of it and attempting to find a better solution, they just joined the battle to basically beat dissenters into submission because the Senate told them to. The Jedi saw themselves as agents of a government rather than representatives of the Force and let politics drive their actions instead of wisdom or compassion. Palpatine ran rings around them because they let themselves become little more than political tools.

Let us not forget that Qui-Gon realized this way before anyone. lol

After order 66?!? He realized afterward?!? “You know what? That slaughter I just did? Well yeah, they totally deserved that NOW that I look back on it...”

hey if you wanna get technical, anakin was keeping with the jedi ways regarding attachments. He just applied it to the jedi themselves.

It’s interesting how far reaching this understanding of the Jedi Order’s Failure is becoming spread throughout the Cannon. In the game Fallen Order, fallen Jedi Tarron Malicos speaks of the Jedi Order falling long before the purge, blinded by war and deafened by past glory.

Obi-Wan: I have the high ground!! Anakin: Creating memes like that alone should justify Order 66...

The Jedi thought like the Old Republic Jedi, that the Sith would invade as a super power and to try and destroy them but that was the Sith Empire not the true Sith, they are the legacy of Darth Bane, which would use deception and manipulation and strike from the heart of their enemies...through politics and legalize themselves as rulers of the galaxy showing how corrupt the Old Republic system was. It's absolutely poetic and scary, it's literally using your own enemies weapon against them.

In a lot of ways Mace Windu is a better personification of the Jedi's faults (and strengths) than even Yoda. Mace was absolutely blinded by his love for both the Republic and the Jedi Order, and tolerated no threat to either xx

The fall of the Jedi order was millennia in the making. The minute dogma replaced following the "will of the force", it's doom was written. Since it is said that the force flows through all living things, then it must evolve as well. The Jedi failed to do this, failed to place emphasis on growth and understanding over following the Jedi code. This explains why so many turned to the dark side. All the other things, like attaching themselves to the hip of the republic, hastened what was to come eventually.

I kind of agree with Darth Vader on that one. The Jedi should have never been involved in a war I don't know how that happened

The Jedi order was in desperate need of change. The council really should have begun to make changes with so many prominent Jedi like Dooku,Barriss, and of course the infamous Pong Krell. Krell might have been a scumbag but he was right in the end The Jedi lost the war and the Republic was ripped apart from the inside. And a new order rose to take it's place do wonder if he would have agreed with something like the Empire though.

They may have deserved to fall but not all of them had to die

Dude, your live stream is awesome. You talk to all of us (while gaming), you were friendly and just a good guy to hang with. Thank you for answering most of my questions. You're a class act and so many other streamers should take notes from you on how to talk to your fans. And love that "If not for meeee" lines. They crack me up lol. Especially the If not for meeeeee, then for friendship. My fave of all time. My problem is I have so many questions to ask that my brain locks up and I forget them all until it's too late. I'll shut up now, but thank you again

I love that Jedi Temple sequence in The Rise of Darth Vader, especially Vader's thoughts about his armor and the consequences of his surgery

I actually agree with Vader on this. Great Video. Im hearing a lot about Plagueis novel recently i need to read or listen to it asap. 😔

Or if Revan had trained him it would be an interesting twist

They deserved to fall because they never gave Anakin Skywalker the rank of Jedi master.

So his reason was just pure corruption of the jedi order. Well: They were used by the Republic as generals of clone armies to win against CIS. That war was actually a misleading turning point, a distraction from Palpatine's true plans so in the eyes of Vader, jedi were useless durring the entire clone wars just because it wasn't a war but a master plan of one sith lord that was using everyone he could.

Its strange how Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader claimed to hate corruption so much, but failed to see the corruption of Sidius.

I think most of us thought this ages ago when playing games such as Kotor and more. The countless grey we encountered and problems we saw caused by the this or nothing the Jedi spouted. You never really wanted to be a Jedi but just have the abilities they did.

one of the most insightful videos you've done! Very well done

It’s ironic how Luke came to the same conclusion.

I left a like for *logical deductions*

Isn't that how all Sith think about the Jedi order..

Do you think a contributing factor to the Jedi's fall was that they built their temple on the ruins of a Sith temple?

Hello There Star Wars Reading Club I absolutely adored your last video on this topic of realisation from Obi Wan that the Republic was never worth fighting for in the first place. However, to see just how Vader realised how much the Jedi had failed him as Anakin and themselves is just a fantastic way of us seeing just how much he realised that the Order deserved to be destroyed. I perfectly regard this information as Canon for myself alongside the information regarding Obi Wan from the last video. This info is just too important to be forgotten and should acknowledged in the Star Wars timeline. In fact, I do hope that in the new game 'Jedi Fallen Order' that the main protagonist Cal Kestis will also come to realise what Obi Wan, Yoda and Vader did or realise it to some degree, even if its just a little. That would be fantastic if Cal could understand this and come to a verdict that the Order he valued so much had failed. It would be a very emotional impact for him in the story. Also, sticking with Fallen Order. I keep wondering if Cal and the Second Sister once knew each other and were very close as Jedi before Order 66. That would just be awesome if the writers thought of that and we could have a very emotional moment in the game between the two. This is just my thought but it does sound like it could work very well if the writers have thought about it. What do you think? Thanks for this wonderful new video Star Wars Reading Club and remember The Force will be with you. Always!

Honestly mace should of waited for the real masters to come back and discuss what they should do because Palatine wouldn't say the jedi committed treason and if he had the troopers do order 66 alot of jedi would be killed but the ones at the council would definitely survived bc they're aware of what happened and figured out what to do especially with younglings but Palatine would of been taken down from Senate or even killed

Yes they did deserve to fall the Jedi order didn't serve the force or the people they swore to protect all across the galaxy only themselves and the Republic.

This might be the best video you've created. Truly insightful

What if the Jedi High Counsil realized the foundations of their downfall beforehand (their attachtment with the Republic), and decided to withdraw from the Republich to its faith and retreated to somewhnere else to meditate upon this to regain ist true conection to the Force? would it be the solution for the Jedi to keep its existance? Can you do a vid on that?

He was still mad he didn’t get the rank of Master! ;) . . . . He was also angry with the Younglings called him “Master” Skywalker . . . . . Btw SWRC, my film comes out an the next hour. Hope you take the time to see it, and get an honest review? MTFBWY!

"Call it a.... catharsis! A spiritual laxative!"- Hoji, Shadow Warrior

Looking at all these issues with the Old Jedi Order, did Luke's Jedi Order ( Legends ) address them?

Hello there i come from Mathias Pedersen Explained’s channel he said you were a good youtuber so i decided to check you out

Darth Plagueis: (to Sidious; regarding the Jedi) "Do you see the grand error of their ways? They execute the republic's business as if it were the business of the force!"

I think the Sith who started them down the path of two was clearly a wise person, go into hiding, slowly rebuild and learn the ways of the darkside to evenly figure away to bring down the jedi order and in the process, they set the seed for the jedi fall invertanty, with the jedi evolving into more of a enforcement of the law agency, the darkness grew within the republic, so in the end, the sith were able to take control and using the clone army, wiped out much of the jedi and began establishing control over the galaxy, prehaps if the first and only Emperor of the new Galatic Empire had focused resources into not only hunting down the jedi but rebuilding the worlds shattered by the Clone Wars, the rebels would likely not gotten so powerful, its as a princess said "The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."

Such are the thoughts one whose entire life is devoted to become an almost unwitting and unyielding slave.

*Yeah, all those younglings knew what they were doing.*

I have left a like for both you and logical deductions

I liked the video so I thought about it, and decided to give it a like and leave a comment...For you Star Wars Reading Club 💙

Jedi: No attachments Anakin: starts killing them Jedi: 😨

0:12 The guy on the left looks like Aquaman and the blue guy on the right looks like Beast from X-Men

Well from his point of view the Jedi are evil

When Vader meets Obi-wan Kenobi again in the death star and tells him now I'm the rank of Master.

What their fall was for not believing in Anakin.

Fear of losing power and desperately trying to hold on to it sounds like what's going on now

Perfect. Vader was so right. Well done. They were stupid,arogant fools. Period

Do a video on kir kanos

Definitely excited for Jedi fallen order

These SW backstory vids, like some of the SW movies, are a little light. "Why the Emperor and Tarkin were buds" --> kinda fluffy. Tarkin had knowledge...okayyyy. And? You can tell me his life story in detail maybe?

Random question. Why has kylo Ren not turned ugly? I sent that a dark side side-effect?

For logical deductions

Kekw. The Jedi Order sealed their own fate the moment they denied Anakin and rank of Master.

I'd say that they deserved to fall, because rather than actively using their power, to make the galaxy a better place, they focused solely on using it to keep the dark side of the Force at bay. Blind to the fact that (by Yoda's own admission) suffering and darkness are linked. Evil is often born from suffering in one's early years (hence the reason, why so many criminals come from poverty). Anakin is a perfect example of that. The Jedi could have used their influence to make the Republic ban slavery. Instead they BOUGHT slaves (such as Anakin); and were actually complicit in the creation of an entre ARMY of slaves. They could have reduced crime and poverty (and thus, reduced suffering, which leads to anger, which leads to hate, which leads to the Dark Side) by pressuring the senate to bring public education, public housing, public healthcare, public transportation, and strong environmental protection laws, to each of its member worlds (at least the empire built SCHOOLS), and to pass anti-discrimination laws for non-human races. Instead, it let the outer worlds be overrun by poverty, with despots and crime lords such as the Hutts filling the vacuum left by the absence of any social guidance from the core worlds. And when a Force sensitive child was born, instead of helping its parents, they ripped the family apart, by taking the child from them. When they could have EASILY just brought the entire family to Corrosant; and provided for them there. The child spending the day, in training at the temple, and the evenings with its family (like normal children). The reason why the old Jedi order didn't do that, is because they were a cult. They wanted Force-sensitive children to imprint on the Jedi Order, to such a degree, that life outside the Order would be literally unthinkable for a Jedi. That's why most Jedi were "recruited" as infants. I can think of no more fitting fate for the Jedi, than to die at the very hands of the soldiers who were their slaves.

The Jedi and the Sith lost their ways the moment they have chosen to take sides on light and dark. Only when they became enforces of power rather than followers of the force, their doom was set. Even without the Midi-chlorian manipulation that is discovered by Plagueis and later used by Sidious to create the chosen one, both sides sealed their fates. The Jedi began to use the force as a tool in supporting and enforcing the will of the Republic Senate, while the Sith viewed it as a tool for personal growth and power. In the end, both sides strayed and thus Anakin was born to destroy so that Luke can begin anew. In the Indian epic known as Mahabharat, every small and large scale event lead to a single grand-scale civil war that lasted for 18 days. This war ended with the annihilation of the Ksatriya caste and their power eventually fades. The one who manipulates the events up to the point is two strategic and political geniuses. One is the secretly vengeful and scheming uncle of Kauravas, Shakuni and the other is the guide and supporter of Pandavas and God himself lord Krishna. Shakuni wanted the destruction of the Kuru clan, to which both the Pandavas and the Kauravas belong, while God wanted the complete annihilation of the Ksatriya people and their followers.

This kind of outside the box thinking is what made legends so interesting to read.

Ironically, the Sith became just like the Jedi by the time of Episode 6.

If Anakin had a mind set of Revan or trained like him he would be unstoppable and he wouldn’t have killed everyone but the key ones that would not allow him to complete his goals

And so he took a shortcut to quick power and authority, was named a 'lord' and committed numerous, numerous atrocities due to being just a lapdog enforcer to his Sith emperor... And then the empire fell too. Thanks to him eventually. Still, Vader killed many combatants, and non-combatants alike, young & old. "His empire" was still far more worse than the Republic had been. In the end, he realized this when Sidious was killing his son right in front of him.

To put this simply about the force of the Light/Dark side. ""One cannot exist without the other."" If the Jedi order destroys the Dark Side there is only light. And if the Sith destroys the Light Side there is only Darkness. So that said, Whenever there is light there were always be shadows, to be found as well. So no one really wins in this. Edit: This is just my point of view of the force when it comes to star wars. You can all correct me if you want. so long you have a careful analysis in this discussion.

Facts 💯

.....father's and sons's sometimes fall short in expectations. Not sure if the Jedi deserved to fall by attempting to keep the peace but i think Vader deserved to become Vader.

Because he saw through the lies of the Jedi

The Jedi were arrogant.

Because the Jedi Order was built on sand

C'mon. The Jedi were still concerned about the Force & being selfless...

The Jedi Order Deserved To Fall Cause They Turned Against Me..

The narrow minded dogmatic view of the jedi

BOTH the jedi and the Sith are extremists on opposite sides of the spectrum neither should have existed in the form that they did.

I don`t know if this has anyting to do with the video, i just thought it would be great to see this speech from a fanfic from anakin( after he became Vader, but before the suit) to Obi- Wan. SPOILER ALERT Vader: One thing Sidious wasn't lying about was the corruption you yourself partook in. Obi-Wan: Explain that one, Vader. Because I don't get it. How were the Jedi so irrevocably evil that you had to turn into a Sith Lord and betray everyone who ever loved you? Vader: Loved me?! LOVED me?! Is that what you'd call what you did to me?! Obi-Wan: What I did to-? Vader: You stole me from my mother... Obi-Wan: No. Qui-Gon saved you from a life of slavery! Vader: Saved me? You think he saved me? At what cost?! What about my mother?! Did he care about my mother? NO! He didn't! He left her there to rot! As a slave! I had no idea if she'd ever be free. If I'd ever see her again. I was a nine-year-old boy who loved my mother with all I had in me! She was the only security I'd ever known, and you dragged me away from her! You took me, a frightened, awestruck little boy to a big world I could barely fathom, dropped me in a Jedi academy, and expected me to pretend she wasn't there still, suffering! Pretend that she didn't even exist! At the same time, you told a lost little nine-year-old boy over and over again that he was the Chosen One, some almighty, all powerful Jedi savior who would bring balance to the Force and peace to the entire galaxy. I was nine, Kenobi! Do you have any idead what kind of pressure the Jedi put on me by doing that?! The expectations thrust upon me by all of you?! Do you know what nine-year-olds should be burdened with? Schoolwork and friends and family, that's what! Not with the burden of saving an entire kriffing galaxy from some unknown villain! But if that wasn't bad enough, all of you, and I do mean all of you in that damn Temple, treated me like I was a ticking time bomb before I was even given a chance! I was simultaneously a thing of wonder and a thing to be feared! The other padawans were jealous of how quickly I caught on to stuff, how quickly I matched and then surpassed them in skill, and they didn't take to kindly to that! And when they mocked me, bullied me, and attacked me, and I defended myself, who got in trouble, Kenobi? Answer me that! Who?! Me! That's who! And you didn't do a damn thing about it except blame me for it and pile on extra chores or meditation, rather than really listening to what I tried to tell you was happening and trying to find a way to actually help me! You didn't even protect me from any of the Knights or Masters who regularly hurled abuse at me! I was a kid, just a kid, a lost, frightened, grieving kid who missed his mother so much it hurt, and from day one, I had no kriffing clue why Master Windu hated my guts! He hated me, Kenobi! H-a-t-e-d me! As my master, I thought you were supposed to protect me, as well as train me. And you did nothing to stop his actions toward me. Nothing! All of you Masters were so preoccupied in following your damn creed to the letter that you failed to meet the needs of those who looked up to you, who relied on you, who trusted you. You failed Ahsoka. You failed so many others. You wonder why Dooku fell to the dark side? Why I fell? Look in a damn mirror for once! Obi-Wan: I did the best I could... Vader: Spare me the pious drivel! I don't want to hear it! I told you about my dreams. About my mother being tortured, suffering in agony, and dying. What did you do, Kenobi? Nothing. You told me to do nothing! And I listened to you until I could hardly close my eyes without seeing her calling out for me, literally begging for me to come and save her! Padme at least came with me to try and help her. She listened to me! You didn't! By the time I got there, it was too late. She died in my arms after having been beaten and tortured, just like I saw in my visions! She didn't deserve that! Didn't deserve a life of slavery or a cruel death shortly after she was liberated. I could have saved her, had I listened to what the Force had been trying to tell me! I was her son! It was my duty, my right to protect her! But you held me back! Obi-Wan: You weren't supposed to have attachments, Vader. That's... Vader: Don't give me that hypocritical rancor shit! You just said you loved me, Kenobi! What the hell is that except an attachment, huh?! Explain that one to me, because I don't get it! The Jedi decried emotional attachment, but here's the thing, Jedi, whether Master, Knight, or padawan, are all sentient beings, no matter their race, who are born to feel emotions, Kenobi! It's natural to form attachments! It's natural for beings to feel love, to desire to have familes of their own as they mature! It's what's driven society on all inhabited worlds across this galaxy for eons! I wanted nothing more than a family, freed from slavery. Did you know that? That's what I wanted, until you and your Jedi cohorts came along and pressured me into being their poster boy, held to a higher standard than any oter padawan, one of unattainable expectations by the way, even as they treated me like shit behind closed doors. And you wonder why I didn't trust you enough to talk to you about Padme and I? Why I hid it from you and the rest of the Jedi?! Obi-Wan: Come on, I always knew... Vader: At least the Sith acknowledge emotions and sanction their need and use! Even if they are the worst of emotions! You can't just steal babies from their parents, Kenobi, place them in a creche and raise them to not feel anything! We're living beings, not droids, dammit! You can't rewrite nature with your precious kriffing Code! News flash for you, IT DOESN'T WORK! So when I had dreams of Padme dying in childbirth, I went to Yoda for help. I did what I was supposed to. And you know what? I got zero help. NONE! Did you know that when Ahsoka went to him for similar help, before you threw her out to the nexu, mind you, he gave her lots of great advice and help? Did you know? Well, apparently when the Chosen One asked for help, ALL he got was a vague "rejoice in her death and becoming one with the Force, you should" comment and a pat on the back as he got kicked out of the office! Obi-Wan: I would have helped... Vader: No! You wouldn't have! You would have given me the same exact bullshit you gave me when I went to you about the dreams I had about my mother. I had Force visions of her being tortured by those Tuskens! And all you had to say was that they were just bad dreams, nothing more, and that they'd "pass in time." You wanted me to ignore my mother once again! So, if I'd told you about Padme, you would have been the good little Jedi Master and gone running to the Council and ratted me out to them, confirming to the entire Order that hating me was smart and trusting me was a bad idea. Just like Mace always said! Hell, you would have kicked me out the door as you did so for breaking the stupid Code, and I would have been worse off than I already was! Because I still would've been easy prey for Sidious, if not easier because the Jedi would've hung me out to dry without a second thought! And, if you're truly honest with yourself, you'll admit I'm right. You know I am! Obi-Wan: I loved you, Anakin. Vader: Save it. I hate you. Not because of what you did...but because of what you didn't do.

Blame Qui-Gon, Anakin should never have been trained.

First

I'm kinda tired of having these videos pop up. " this character realised this". " that one time this character did this" in some comic book that some guy from Lucas film just made up. I know it isn't canon now but geez