How we play live with backing tracks 

I got lost several times along the way.

Actually the Behringer interfaces have superior sound quality to most interfaces, even in studio. It's just the software support that is sub-par but if you get the drivers to work reliably it's great.

@@davesmulders3931 absolutely not true. please get your ears tested.

@@oranjekoala4212 don’t be such a snob. Just find Julian Kraus here on RU-vid who tested about every interface on the market extensively. The Behringer interfaces and especially the Midas preamps are very very good. SNR and dynamics are through the roof for such a cheap interface. Not anything audible in a live environment anyway, not even in most studio situations. If you don’t want to believe it I’m fine with that: I have no problem with people overspending on gear they think they need. It doesn’t mean however that the interface is no good for others.

Glad I could be helpful! Thanks for the encouragement.

Ahaha yes - we're fans of Rampage Coffee here :) try the C4 blend if you're able to put an order in!

That makes a lot more sense. Thanks mate!

So, wait, the Behringer has a switch labeled “ADAT/SPDIF” that is actually a Toslink/Coax toggle and if you switch it to ADAT it still lets you run S/PDIF over coax but presumably not ADAT light pipe? That’s bizarre and confusing.

@@michael_r No, it actually is not a toslink/coax switch. So wait, you would like to connect ADAT to the coaxial connector? Maybe you've confused yourself by making things harder than they really are.

Thank you kindly!

Thanks mate!

I've actually found a better way to send MIDI changes in Reaper -- will be doing a video on that soon, but it involves creating a MIDI track and using Events instead of dragging envelopes around.

@@theevanwilliamsproject Nice one, I'll look out for that.

Thanks for watching! :)

Thanks! We like it :)

I might give that a shot when and if I acquire another old computer. Thanks!

I've got a follow up video in the works for an easier way to do patch changes over USB - It's worth doing! I wouldn't want to go back to foot switches any time soon.

What's a good site for backing tracks?

@@Oleg_K. looks like my other comment was deleted. Maybe you can’t leave web hyperlinks in the comment. Anyway lookup a site called karaoke version. Has custom backing tracks. Cheers.

@@Rob-bc4yu Cheers.

Did you use in ear monitors? They definitely help. Glad you got a drummer BTW that's always best.

I hadn't considered the effect 44.1 would have on time based effects -- I'll have to look into that. This is really helpful, thanks!

You definitely can if you stem it out on its own from the tracks - just put it on its own track in sync with the rest of it and make another hardware send out. If you don't have the raw bass stems to work with I recommend iZotope RX to separate it from the rest of the instrumentation. We don't bother because the tracks are only bass and some backing vocals - and we're already running a lot direct. We're almost out of hardware outputs 💀

I haven't had many positive experiences with the M-Audio interfaces regarding drivers and compatibility; and the main issue I have with the Behringer interface is a bit of cross talk between inputs 1&2. If I'm looking at the right interface it seems to me that the 8-input M-Audio interface doesn't have options to expand, whereas the UMC1820 can connect to a number of preamps over ADAT to expand to more inputs. That would give it the edge for me - you never know when you're going to suddenly need even just one extra input. Latency really isn't much of an issue with the 1820. If I had a better computer I'm certain I could lower the ASIO Buffer quite low - for stability's sake I'm running it at 256 samples which is a barely noticeable amount of latency.

Happy to! The UMC1820 has two headphone outs on the front panel and either can be configured to receive Hardware outs 1&2 or 3&4, so in theory I could make two submixes in Reaper and send them out on those sets of channels. Right now though for the sake of efficiency we've just been making one master mix that everyone is at least mostly happy with and sending it to everybody - Launz gets her own volume control and Isaac and I share the other with a y-cable. It's not ideal, but it's good enough for what we need it for. We are looking into expanding the IEMs a bit but it's a huge expense hurdle up from where we're at - the Behringer Powerplay system looks great and would use ADAT out from the 1820 for individual track mixing on everyone's personal mixer but that would be a bunch of extraneous gear wired in on stage to set up and tear down, and for three people we're easily into the thousands of dollars already. Wireless IEMs are a goal but mono IEMs suck and running three in stereo would come out of our total outputs which would hinder our ability to run things direct; the only way I really see us upgrading from this system is if we get an X32 rack and a set of wireless IEMs --- which is a massive investment for us, essentially requires that we assemble it in a larger rolling rack, and is WAY overkill when this setup just needs some extension cables and being careful not to trip.

I promise I'm working on it... we had a death in the family a few months ago and it's been hectic. I've had almost no time or desire to do much of anything, honestly. But I'm ramping things up and that video's at the top of my list!

@@theevanwilliamsproject So sorry to hear that. Take as much time as you need! Family first!!

If I've understood your situation correctly, you want to be able to send the raw input from Channel 3 out to an outboard mixer? That can be accomplished by adding a hardware send on the kick track in Reaper to one of the other outputs on the UMC1820 and setting the send mode to "Pre-FX" which will send the raw signal out.

Yep, that's right! If I wanted to I could run a mic through this and put it on its own channel with some FX, and that's what I do for rehearsals - but I haven't found a good way to preset vocal FX for playing in a venue. Everyone's got their own vocal chains they like to use for FOH and I've run into problems with feeding back and weird volume jumps when I set my own FX, so I just go through the house for vocals.

I appreciate it!! In the months since this video though I have found a way to pre-program MIDI CC and PC changes onto a track that I can bundle together with the track and click and it's been a game changer -- I'll be making a video on that soon 🙂

@@theevanwilliamsproject Congrats, it’s a game-changer for sure. I play in a tribute band, so we’re doing the same songs in the same arrangement every night, and the only time I step on the Helix is to turn on the tuner or work the volume pedal. I could program the volume swells too, but I’ve tried it and it works, it just feels unnatural to me.

@@stevesheroan4131 yeah volume swells and wah I wouldn't want to automate - it takes the visceral response out of it

@@theevanwilliamsproject Exactly!

It's a beautiful thing. Really allows me to get into the music without having to worry about hitting buttons or turning knobs at the right time.

I can't speak to either using an AFXIII or a Mac, but I would assume there's something on the Fractal wiki about it. You may need a driver for it.

@@theevanwilliamsproject Thx man - and best of luck for 2023 from Berlin...

Thanks! I'll go into a little more detail about that: For in ear monitoring, we just plug our headphones into the headphone amp on the front of the UMC1820 - Launey gets her own input and Isaac and I share the other. The option exists to have these headphone outs use DAW output 1&2 or 3&4, but for the sake of having more outputs on the rear we stick with 1&2 for both. So what we hear in our ears is a stereo master mix coming out from the DAW. In Reaper, I throw a bus compressor and limiter on the master track just so we don't get clipping, and I level match the backing tracks in advance with Reaper's built in LUFS normalization. So at this point we'll have a click on one track and backing tracks on another. I'll make a bus track that contains the backing tracks, the guitar input track, and the keys input track and I'll throw another bus compressor on there to smooth it out in our ears. Now, we could add a vocal input into the DAW, but I have found that it's almost impossible to dial in vocals in advance because I won't be able to anticipate what will sound good in the venue ( and what will or will not cause extreme feedback ). So this is actually the whole setup we bring to a gig -- we just use house gear for vocals and drums and get them to send those to us through a wedge. So we've got a half decent stereo mix coming into our ears from DAW 1&2; but we don't want to send click to FOH nor do we want to muck up the engineer's mix with all that compression I've been using. This is easily solved by going into the track send parameters on each track: you can choose to send a duplicate signal, pre-fader and pre-bus FX, out to any analogue output - and that's why we want all those outputs on the back. We can send stereo backing tracks down, say, outputs 3&4, then keys down 5, then guitar down 6; and those go straight to the FOH for the engineer to do with as they please :) This also saves us time because generally, we'll have dialed in our ears well in advance and will just have to turn them up a little bit at the actual gig. No shouting across the room to get more or less of whatever in our monitors!

@@theevanwilliamsproject Oh wow thank you for the detailed reply! Sounds like if I have my tracks in GarageBand I can mix a send out for just monitors (USB) with the click and send it clickless with live instruments to FOH.

@@scottbakernc as long as you've got the extra analogue outputs that should work :)

I'm afraid I don't know the answer to that one!

Thanks man! You -technically- could but you're going to be limiting yourself to either inputs 1+2 or 3+4 and not both at the same time. The unit can route one or the other stereo pair into the main outs through the "Monitoring" dial on the front but that's all you can do -- you'll need a DAW or other software mixer to route all your ins to your outs. The UM2 has direct monitoring if all you need is a single preamp -- but if all you want is a preamp you might be better off looking at a dedicated unit instead of an audio interface. What are you planning on using with it?

@@theevanwilliamsproject Thanks for the quick reply. Well I have just built a rack with the Behringer X32 as the mixer (which can also be the audio interface too) but it seems the internal pre-amp for the microphones is not sufficient (or it is so high that it causes extra static).

@@wxb499 What kind of mics are you using? The X32 should have enough gain for most things, barring maybe an SM7B -- and that can be remedied with a Triton FEThead or Cloudlifter. If you're getting a lot of noise it could be an issue with the cable you're using.

@@theevanwilliamsproject to be honest I haven’t done much testing on it yet so it’s probably down to user error ;)

@@wxb499 Certainly a possibility! Preamps in general have got quite good across the board. I've got an old Behringer ADA8000 that we use to track drums and even those can get driven pretty hard before they start getting noisy. Try some other cables, other mics, other inputs... and if there's still an issue see if Behringer will replace or repair it for you.

Thanks man! And not when we're performing, no -- same with vocals, actually, but since most venues we play at have stage wedges we can just ask for some of both and it's usually so gd loud that we can hear it clearly even with the ears in! It actually concerns me how loud they're running some of these clubs; I wouldn't recommend going to a show without hearing protection, even for a smaller gig. During rehearsal though we've got an ADA8000 in the corner with a set of t.bone mics on Launey's drums and we run that into the UMC1820 over ADAT, and that way we can hear her in the mix.

The only real issues I've had with it so far are some crosstalk between inputs 1&2 and the power cable coming unplugged in transit - otherwise it's been a workhorse!

You shouldn't have much of an issue. Most audio signals don't degrade until a transmission length of +100ft. over XLR.

Guitars are done through the DAW, and I'll generally just run my vocals straight into FOH and get them to send it to the stage monitors. It's usually loud enough to be audible even with IEMs in. We've done shows where we've routed the vocals through the DAW and sent that to FOH, and shows where we've routed them through FOH and got a send from the board to route back into the DAW, but at the moment they're more trouble than it's worth - the former usually ends up getting us feedback because I can't anticipate where to set the vocal gate and comp for the venue, and the latter means we've gotta throw cables around and there's usually a bit of latency. These could of course just be our bad experiences, but it's happened enough that we just don't bother.

awseome. thanks for the tip!@@theevanwilliamsproject

Thomann makes it pretty easy - the site will do on-the-fly exchange rate conversion to CAD and it's fairly accurate. Then once you've got your total (plus shipping!) you can take that number over to the Government of Canada's import duty and tax calculator to find out how much extra you'll be paying. With shipping and import fees not everything makes sense to import but I've been blown away by what I can order from there for less money than any Canadian retailer - and have it arrive faster. You do have to be wary of power cables and voltage requirements when importing electronics, though.

@@theevanwilliamsproject Have never really considered Thomann, but will seriously look into it. Thanks!

Thanks mate - since putting this video together I have found a much easier way to send MIDI to the Axe FX and am working on a video for that, so if that's of your interest keep an eye out :)

@@theevanwilliamsproject subbed! Thanks for that. I’m gonna wanna do something similar with just my laptop and a small interface. Might run everything within DAW, but if the latency is too much, gonna try and run standalone guitar plugins and have my daw control it via midi if possible (I think it is)

@@BabaGhanoushMusic it's definitely doable! My buddy and I used the Neural DSP plugs in place of the Fractal before when recording some songs on the Newvember project and we were able to get it down below 5ms latency without trouble. In even a small room you'd be hard pressed to notice that amount over the PA. I've actually considered moving strictly to guitar plugins... they've become stupidly good and if I'm running a DAW anyway it would save some rack space. Still on the fence about it.

@@theevanwilliamsproject yea, I wanna save and get a quad cortex, but no hurry because I love the plugins. That’s kind of why I want to use the standalones instead, I can get the MS down to stupid low numbers rather than in DAW

Isnt there a risk of the OS interrupting or bugging out during a live performance? Even a bare bones win7 install could come up with all kinds of stupid CPU hogging and interruptions.

Yup!

@The Evan Williams Project awesome. I must try that. 😁👌

We definitely are. Thomann has been great but the fact that I can order stuff from Germany and it be cheaper and get here faster than a Canadian retailer is pathetic, frankly.

@@theevanwilliamsproject What I run into more often than I'd like is this large audio communities and their contests / giveaways. When I'm inclined to read the fine print I come across the line that states that Canada is on the excluded list. That's when I head over to the "Unsubscribe" button. Says the angry Canuck 😝

@@PeterBatah EXACTLY. Like you're telling me you'll ship an amp head to Sydney, Australia but not to Vancouver??? What did we do wrong 😭

@@theevanwilliamsproject Here in the US, they just charge us more for some things. Getting stuff shipped from Canada is a pain with some stuff. I'm like, just ship it to Moose Jaw, AB and I'll come up for lunch and pick it up, it's like 2 hours from my house...lol For what you did wrong...well, you did elect Justin "squat pisser" Turdeau...lol As a side note, I really miss Tim Horton's!

I raise you, Kenya ... been trying to build my bass pedalboard ... if I was in the US or Canada, would cost me about 1000 dollars for what I want ... To do it here, I'll have to spend 2000 dollars more ... I have felt so defeated because of this ... might as well wait for when my band is on tour in any of those places and spend a day getting everything I need.

slap a few slices on at the beginning of the set and 45 minutes later, perfect recovery snack

That I'm not sure of, to be honest. I'm not savvy on iPhone software and you would need to have an app that can playback and route audio to the individual line outs, nor do I know if the Behringer hardware will work with iOS. I've read some people having some success with the Focusrite Scarletts but they've had to do some workarounds and none of them were using it to do multiple outputs. Sorry I couldn't be much help with this one!

Fair, but flexibility was never the priority. We like to maximize the time we're given on stage and not leave any dead space, and pre-setting the entire setlist with automation and additional things like transitions between songs means once the train starts rolling we don't hit the brakes until the very end. If there's an interruption we can just hit pause, and I can't really imagine a situation where we'd have to change a set on the night. I'd much rather just hit play and get to thrash around enjoying the music for a strict 45 minutes than have to worry about going over time or dealing with another piece of hardware.

What specifically would you like to know? I went over the basics of it in this video - arrange them on one track and send them to stereo analogue outputs.

@@theevanwilliamsproject I guess I meant more into the playback of them. Do you run multitrack with a DAW?

@@weswagner3599 Yes, everything in this rig runs through REAPER, and I just place the .wav files of my backing tracks onto a track in the order of the set.

well, there's Akai MPC. (some of them has a foot switch jack. others like (MPC one) has midi that you connect a midi pedal and program it to start your sequence / backing tracks). they also have a 'next sequence' option. hope that helps you.

I had no idea! They've been on version 6 since I started using it. Still a better deal than most DAWs anyway. I am actually looking into using the Neural DSP stuff myself -- the main thing I need to figure out is patch spillover, as that's easy to set up on the Fractal, but I haven't figured out exactly how to do that in the plugs yet.

@@theevanwilliamsproject most people don't have any idea because it takes Reaper many years to get through two full versions! The problems I have with amp sim plugins on a computer, are CPU usage and potentially latency. Neural will eat CPU and perhaps cause you to increase your block size in the buffer setting, which means more latency. Check it out before you get too far. You might be better of having your CPU load off the computer, like it is now with Axe FX. I ended up with a much less CPU intensive plug, Kuassa Amplifikation VVV. I'm not sure it would meet your needs.

The padding is removable and is there for transport - the lid and padding aren't there when the laptop is actually being used.

That's one of the main reasons I gave REAPER a try to begin with! It's a breath of fresh air among the smog of perpetual subscriptions. We're only outputting what needs to go to FOH - so stereo tracks come out on 3&4, and then depending on the engineer's preferences (and how much time he's got to spare) we can either give him mono keys and guitar or stereo keys and guitar for a total of 4-6 inputs on the board. We keep outs 1&2 as essentially an in-ears bus and that's the only place the click goes.

Interesting! I hadn't actually considered the XR18 for that - the only issue I'd anticipate is the smaller number of outputs available (6 aux out, so 3 stereo ears would mean no tracks or instruments through) unless we were to use an Ultranet Powerplay system, which if we decided we'd like to invest in we could just get a P16-I and chain it to the UMC1820 over ADAT. There's definitely lots of options out there, but I think we've struck the sweet spot of meeting what we need for the foreseeable future - I can't imagine, with where we're at as a band right now, looking at dropping any more money on a more robust system. Maybe once we start touring and hire more musicians. I do know a lot of people who use Ableton Live as well, but I haven't used it myself... Reaper has ruined me, man. It just does everything I need it to do.

@@theevanwilliamsproject ah yes I see... Sorry, I missed the bit about providing FOH the signal through the system. I suppose (but only interesting if you like the thought experiment, you're obviously happy with what you have) you could do xlr splits so everything goes directly to front of house, as well as into the mixer. You could run stereo tracks through the mains out. Only thing with splits is to be careful not to put phantom power on the line from two places. But you seem to have found the simplest and most intelligent way of doing it, so best to keep it! Reaper rocks... never could get my head around Ableton anyway.

Sending the non-processed instruments to FoH using your interface seems like a lot of potential for issues, loss in quality and a massive increase in latency. Why not do an analogue split on a patch panel at the back? This also solves the issue of having to reach into the back of the units to plug in the cables.

@@bencharles4459 We haven't experienced any issues with latency or quality having used this rig for a year and a bit :)

We usually know how long of a set we need to play so we just lay them all out on one track in Reaper.

@@theevanwilliamsproject I created several general playlists for different kinds of gigs and venues, so they pop up in order, but sometimes I have to do requests or just feel like doing something different! Thx!

@@bobsbarnworkshop Yeah, flexibility is not a strength of this system -- there's a lot of pre-prep that's gotta be done.

@@theevanwilliamsproject yeah, backing tracks limit any free form performance… gotta follow along precisely! Ha ha!

@@bobsbarnworkshop Pros and cons!

It's wonderful! I never want to go back to a pedalboard again

@@theevanwilliamsproject same, no more pedal dancing!

Flexibility in a set is nice, but if I'm given a 45 minute set time I want to make sure I'm using my allotted time efficiently. Pre-planning the set, including when to take breaks, switch guitars, talk to the audience, means I know for certain that our time will be well spent and we won't go over. This also means that as we rehearse the set, we'll practice all those things during the rehearsal and it'll be a tighter show as a result.

Hey there! Yes, you have to route tracks to the line outs in your DAW. It's different depending on which program you're using, but in REAPER it's a matter of clicking the "Route" button on a track, which brings up the routing menu; then select from the dropdown menu under "Audio Hardware Outputs" and select the outputs you want to send the audio to. It might be called a Hardware Send or something along those lines, but you can usually do it on a track-by-track basis. Do a bit of digging and you'll find it.

@@theevanwilliamsproject oh ok this is what I didn't quite understand when I read it in the manual. Will I have to always have it set up to my DAW in order for them to work ,or once I've set them they'll just work) as I like to keep my pc off as much as possible, it just saves on headaches. 🤷🏼‍♂️ Thanks for replying btw

@@FfanitTech Hardware outputs are generally saved with your project - if you can configure a project template with all the tracks routed the way you want, that'll make it a little easier. I generally just redo all the routing every time I make a new show file. It doesn't take that long to configure once you know how to do it 🤷‍♂

@@theevanwilliamsproject right then , best get the computer on and see if I can get this worked out. Thanks for the advice

I don't do a lot of remote recording work, but I did use it for that purpose a few times during my "Newvember 4" project and it was a godsend. Brought it to my buddy's place and we laid down track 5, "Denial", in about an hour or so. We've also used it to record live off the floor in our rehearsal space - and if you're interested you can check out our covers of "Little Monster" and "Regulator" to see how those turned out :)

@@theevanwilliamsproject 100% gonna have to but and build my self one

I give him a smack. For real though I don't know the answer to this - either it hasn't happened yet, or it doesn't do anything if it does.

At the moment, we all get the same mix. We could set one headphone output to Outs 1+2 and the other to 3+4, giving us two headphone mixes to choose from, but we've found that sharing a mix is generally fine for our needs.

That makes more sense. Thanks!

Nope - those both get run through the system and direct into FOH. Keys get a little Valhalla Shimmer before it hits the output and guitar is handled by the Axe-FX

@@theevanwilliamsproject I Have the Axe III and the Presonus Quantum Thunderbolt II interface. I'm just looking for the right amp to gig and practice. I'm old school and need a amp and a cab behind me. I think I would also send the complete chain to The House. Nice job!

@@daveparker7207 ooooh you'll want an FRFR speaker for that -- the Line 6 Powercab is one but Harley Benton makes an affordable one as well. I've considered getting one myself but I can't justify the expense considering I usually just practice through my studio monitors 😂

Correct - however this rig doubles as our in-ear monitoring system, we're sending outputs 1&2 to everyone's ears. This lets us preset all the monitoring levels before we even get to the gig and we won't have to bother the FOH engineer with mixing requests. And all three of us prefer click on the left :)

Panning the click hard left (mono) is for monitoring purposes. Panning hard left makes it a mono signal ( 1 channel ) instead of stereo (2 channel

I have not. A cursory search leads me to believe that it would work fine, but don't take my word for it.

You know it --- now get out there and make some music 💪💪

Hasn't yet!

I stumbled across that method some time after making this video - I'll be showcasing it in a follow up video soon :)

Nope, that's an expense we haven't been able to justify just yet. For now we're just using 3.5mm extension cables - it's on our wish list though.

@@theevanwilliamsproject Do you ware belt pak head phone amps? How do you control volume?

@@seanwalsh999 There are two headphone outs on the front of the UMC1820 - our drummer gets one and I share the other with our keys player via a split cable. Volume gets pre-set during sound check and we just have very long 3.5mm extension cables. To make things smoother for everyone involved, I normalize all the tracks to -14.0 LUFS and the click to -1.0db, then during rehearsal Isaac and I will make sure our guitar and keys patches are all around the same levels with a little boost for solo sounds. Then I run the tracks and instruments through a bus comp and the whole thing through a limiter on the master. This way, we can send the uncompressed tracks to FOH via the Audio Hardware Outs so the mixing engineer on the night can do whatever he needs to do with them (but they're all still at consistent volumes throughout the show), and our ears will stay at a fairly constant level so we don't have to run over and turn them up or down.

@@theevanwilliamsproject Thank you for your explanation, your set up is very striped down, but it sounds like you have really mastered the technology.

See that was my initial assumption. But I get in a lot of trouble with the way I pronounce GIF so I wanted to be wary.

That definitely works when you're looking at just outputting a stereo signal! When you're looking at including a click track for multiple musicians as well as processing keyboard and guitar effects and adding those to your output mix though you're going to run into some issues. You could pan the click to one side and the tracks and instruments to the other and use a splitter, but unless you've specifically mixed your tracks for mono playback summing them is going to remove a lot of the full-ness, and you'll have to pre-mix your instrument and track levels in the box before sending it to FOH. The gear in the video is the simplest (and cheapest) way I've found yet to have in-ear mixes for musicians and multiple distinct channels for the FOH engineer to mix properly - and it's evolved out of that need. You're correct in saying this would be unnecessary for solo musicians :)

@@theevanwilliamsproject ok, fair enough! I am a solo but on occasion have had two others with me. I place my tracks on ProTools and mix them according to what musicians I have with me.

Swap it for some Neural DSP plugs and grab a cheap Behringer USB mixer and you're good to go, champ

Money, mainly

It's cheaper than hiring a 32 piece choir and orchestra

@@theevanwilliamsproject certainly is.

You may be surprised many professional bands use or have used some backing tracks in their live shows, even if the actual backing track is created by them recording it.

@@johnthelad i am aware. Just not a fan of it.

Music is not a competition. You cannot cheat at it lol

Anyone can have a project! All you need to do is start releasing music :)

It pauses when another window is focused. Wallpaper Engine is so cool, man. Thanks!

The lid and foam come off when it's being used - those are there to keep it from banging around during transport.