Sometimes I'll get a recommendation for a small streamer's ShB trailer reaction or something, posted 40 minutes ago, and there'll already be a top comment from Jesse. He's not kidding when he says he watches every video!
I guess Jesse did not pick up the fact that Emet recognized us as a shard of his old friend right away. The line Emet said at the beginning of ShB: "Then again... with a soul such as that" made a lot more sense once the Azem stuff was revealed. Which also means he was telling the truth when he said that he genuinely took an interest and wanted to take us on as an ally.
Well, in the crossover they made in NieR: reincarnation (with Ishikawa doing the writting) they go as far as showing that moment of recognition with the lines "Back curled under exhaustion. Sigh harmonic to a heavy countenance. Before him stands a cluster of miscreants. Gaze shrewd enough to pierce the spirit, the man spots a familiar hue... The precise color of an old friend's soul. A broken relic of paradise... But he has already passed an eternity with hope and grief. He has watched them die. Forgotten them. Now, he simply does what can be done. Grasping the last wisp of a dream that stubbornly fails to fade. A lone player in this tale of the star- his monologue an elegy."
@@Reldan "at the start we're half of an Azem being seven times rejoined already, and with Ardbert we actually come into being a majority of ourselves for the first time since the sundering." Hate to break it to you but we were already 8/14 as 7 times rejoined. We just became 9/14 when Ardbert joined.
@@Ankfank With the departure of Emet and Elidibus, the WoL is potentially the most aetherically dense being on the star and all its shards with the possible exception of the direct, still-living children of Midgardsormr
The theorycrafting of the people who haven't finished the MSQ has always been my favorite videos to watch. The best part will always be whenever the they look back at what they've said and see how much of what they predicted actually happened. Can't wait for that video after Garrett and Kyle finish EW. Also, Kudos to Jesse for being such a great interviewer. You can see how he really tries to be careful with how he asks his questions.
I view Shadowbringers and Endwalker as a single long story. I simply call it "Shadowwalker" 5.0-5.3 is the first part. 5.4 until lvl 83 MSQ is the middle and 83-90 MSQ is the ending.
Yup. Shadowbringers is a lot of the "saving the First", but it really just re-contextualizes the world we had enjoyed, and it sets up so much, builds on what was there, and pays it all off.
In this, Jesse Cox is a god 😇, his questions might seem leading, but he is pushing you through 2 years of theory crafting, fixing all the potential misunderstandings you would have normally resolved by compulsory rewatching cutscenes while waiting for the next expansion and interacting with the community at the time, all while keeping a stoned face while you theorize in front of him...... I didn't think it was humanely possible, I remove my hat and salute 🖖
As a fellow Zenos enjoyer, I'm so glad that the love for his character is represented here with you guys. I was there when the hate train was CHOO CHOOing down the track and and I was all like "No hes a GREAT CHARACTER!"
Jesse: Zenos, fork and knifing the moon. Me: Hm what other ways could Zenos eat the moon 🤔 Also me: It's a warm and windy night in Garlemald. Zenos has retired to his chambers to give full reins to his brooding. As he sits heavily on the edge of his bed, he picks up a bowl containing various broken pieces of what were once swords, empty bullet cases and gun powder. Zenos rotates the bowl, which is really a hollow Kojin shell, in one direction or another pensively. He reaches out to his moon fruit tree and, after placing the shell on his lap, because those moon fruits requires both hands to pry open with their dried out cheese-like skin, rips it in two. He takes a bite of the soft and juicy center as he once again stares at his bowl. Suddenly, squinting harder to make sure, a revelation comes to him. "My friend... he's alive. He's alive!" exclaimed Zenos. For a moment, he repeats these words with an increasingly loud cackle. Then, recovering his composure and smiling faintly, he adds: "It's time." The Moon King. Coming soon on a half-eaten moon near you. Love you guys, thanks for all the great content especially the cooking streams/videos!
He always comes up with stuff where the gist is basically correct but the mechanics or details are off. Which I think is credit to Ishikawa's ability to weave bits of information into the narrative that give you just enough jigsaw pieces at any given time to take a reasonable guess at what the whole might be, but never enough to get it exactly right. It makes it satisfying though when your guesses get partially proven correct and partially come as a surprise. Kyle is really good at picking up on all of that and putting the pieces together in his mind.
One of the things I love about XIV writers is that some of the threads that were left hanging even in 2.0 (sometimes 1.0) randomly get picked up and resolved. Ishikawa is a hell of a writer, and is an absolute master of pacing. Moments of levity, moments of absolute emotional wrecking balls, and oh by the way that thing you occasionally wondered about, here's the answer.
LOL THE EDITING. Great job with the floating heads 😂 Emet knew the WoL was a shard since Laxan Loft. It really paints his actions in a different light, doesn’t it.
I listened to this live, but I love the effort that was put into the editing! The floating heads gives it a kind of ethereal vibe, like those conversations you have with friends while high where you wonder about the secrets of the universe
It is worth mentioning that Emet mentions offhandedly at some point in ShB that taking living hosts takes a toll on your mind, and that's why most ascians hop inside corpses. Supposedly Lahabrea was known to take living hosts a lot to handle his plans directly rather than leave it to henchmen and thats why he was kinda crazy.
@@lordkrauser yeah there's an argument to be made that the other paragons were insane in their own ways too for sure. I mean Emet did make an entire city of illusions, that's not something a sane person does lol. 10k years is like the lowball estimate too haha who knows how long its been exactly, since so few records from the first/second eras survived.
Regardless of content - which of course, 5.3 + Jesse + GG = excellent - I just wanted to say I appreciate the amount of editing that had to go into this to get all of these multiple video sources wrangled into overlays and talking heads and such for this video, all while game footage is going on in the background.
Not that you two need any more confirmations at this point since you're officially in the know regarding the WoL and the 14th seat, but it is interesting to note that Hythlodaeus refers to the missing 14th as "she" and "her" if you play as a female WoL. So, just a bit more confirmation that we're supposed to at least see our player character in that role.
*rocks back and forth* "Can't spoil mods will get me. Can't spoil mods will get me." *screams, stands and starts running* "Just wait until..." *sounds of shot and a thud* I had this experience the first time I heard it, and it only got worse relistening. This was a bad ass 'interview' and overall enjoyable time, and having it again with all the context from scenes made it all the better.
possibly my biggest pet peeve with this community is when people say something like Garret said about Emet, that 'villain becomes a blurred line' with him. It's not a blurred line. he's aided in committing world-destroying mass genocide no less than seven times. He's also founded at least two separate fascist empires, SPECIFICALLY because he knows they cause massive chaos and suffering, and all of his plans require him to kill you and everyone you have ever cared about. He's a villain. Him being a very well written villain does not negate that. To quote Brooklyn 99- 'Cool motive- still murder.' Also- Elidibus acts WILDLY different from Zenos while in his body. He spends all this time carefully using politics and military tactics to advance the cause of the Empire, which is something Zenos never cared about at all.
I also adore Stormblood expansion as well, and I am willing to argue with anyone who said it is a bad expansion. At the time I played Stormblood, my country faced a political crisis and got a coup. People lived under the tyranny foot and our freedom was oppressed. People sorrow, anger, hatred, anguish, and fear are all in one pack inside Stormblood explaining all very well through Ala Mhigo and Doma. And during the Shinryuu fight, I was crying. I was crying so hard because I longed-for freedom and was thinking of people in prison who were trying to fight back the military. Freedom is the prize that's worth the price, and it born from the blood of our fallen brothers.
True, when people call it the "worst expansion"(arguable ofc), its not that its bad, its still really really good, but everything else on the game is just too damn good
Kyle! I know you love to talk to NPCs between scenes, but you need to talk to Urianger after the last 5.3 quest. I think he is in the room where the Scions were, and he has a few theories about Azem!
I love the theorycrafting of other players post ShB, it always reminds me of all the crazy theories I had myself when I was heading towards Endwalker and how wrong and right at the same time I was about some things. Can't wait to see you guys hopping into Endwalker and reacting to all of the grand reveals and answers that will come up!
To kind of add to Jesse's thing about how the Sin Eaters and Voidsent are similar, one of the things I love about Shadowbringers is *how* they made the light/dark balance effective. It's not a good vs evil thing where you have to have a certain amount of murders to counter giving to charity or something. But they take the quality of Light from a philosophical thing with RPG's in general. Like, going all the way back to the original Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, a "Warrior of Light" is one who fights the big bad evil and restores *peace*. So yeah, like, of course the main character of an RPG is going to be a Warrior of Light, they bring peace, stability, and happy endings. But from there it really is the short skip and jump from light = peace to an overabundance of light = stagnation. Likewise, Darkness often being associated with evil kind of plays into how RPG's are structured. You have your calm peaceful life until oops, the big bad shows up and everything sucks now, go beat him up. An RPG villain is so often an agent of darkness, but moreover a proponent of change and greed. Also a lot of RPG's that do have you going up against a corrupt ruler or something will do a thing where the party is branded villains and you have to be on the run or something because hey, you're challenging the status quo. And the fact that 14 weaves it into the story telling and sets the seeds of it *WAY* back in Heavensward with the Dark Knight quests and how the DARK knight got its start challenging the corrupt clergy makes the whole revelation of Urianger's element chart power point feel earned in the world while also being a nice nod to RPG conventions.
I could only listen to the original podcast while I was driving home one day. Only after watching this video did I realize just how hilariously hard Jesse tried to keep his poker face on. 🤣
I absolutely loved the Double-Subversion of the "Chosen One" trope. You originally thought you were Hydaelyn's Chosen, blessed with the Echo. Then it's subverted when you find out that the Echo just means you're a reincarnation of someone from before the Sundering, and the "Hear, Feel, Think" is just an automated distress signal. And then you find out that you *are* the "chosen one," because you are the reincarnation of one particular pre-Sundered being: the last Azem.
It's an interesting position to be in for Jesse Cox that he already knows what happens in 6.0 and then having to somehow pry the both of them with questions that couldn't lead them on on a different way of thinking. It would have been easy and kind of spoilery to go "Well no, that's not that but you'll find out" as it would kind of invalidate what they believe will happen and lessen the surprise. The ideas presented though are interesting, simply because when we were in that position and we were waiting for the next expansion to drop, the only hints we had were the conclusion of Shadowbringers and the trailer for Endwalker. And while some of it kind of pointed out in a certain, actually plausible direction (which was actually cleverly paced), it kept a LOT more to itself to be actually discovered.
At the end of Shadowbringers, most of the community was on the "Hydaelyn is evil camp." As one of the few who didn't buy that, I actually got into a few debates about it. My logic was she never tried to control us and consistently strove to help us despite being weakened, and despite her nature I refused to beleive she was evil until she actually started acting that way. And I beleived the FFXIV writers to be beyond the anime, "God is Evil" trend. I never seemed to convince anyone, and wasn't convinced myself, so that was actually the answer I wanted the most waiting for Endwalker. Was I right or was I wrong? It was a painful wait. But, no matter what people went into Endwalker believing, it sure did not dissapoint in the story it told.
Hydaelyn is absolutely evil. She genocided her entire species even though she knew what was causing the final days, didn't tell anyone about it, watched them summon Zodiark in response, ripped the world apart, let their souls be used to make a bunch of cave people basically, and let no one remember anything about the ancients or the sacrifice they made to keep the planet safe as we lived on it these last 12,000 years. The idea that shadowbringers and endwalker both have a theme of "even if your flawed, you deserve to live" but when it came to Venat looking at her own people it was just "except for you" is ridiculous and kind of disturbing. Creation magic is what made Metion in the first place, and we wouldn't have won in Ultima Thule without the flowers Emet and Hyth made, so why the hell did they all have to get ripped apart and killed instead of being given however long would take to think of their own way to stop the final days with aether based magic instead of dynamis-enabled thinner people? Because Venat didn't fucking tell anybody just so her "brave little spark" could exist like a psychopath.
As to the "Eorzea is flat" comment of other undiscovered places, we already know there are more continents, as they get mentioned all the time in side stuff. The New World is to the far west and seem to be analogous to the Americas, while Meracydia is to the south and where the dragons and peoples of the Warring Triad are.
KUDOS to Jesse for never correcting the boys on anything they got wrong! It would be so hard for me to not "well, actually what happened is..." 😁 Good job of instead asking them questions that might make them think on stuff they never noticed before 🤔
I would love for Jesse to interview you guys again after you finish Endwalker :D this video and the podcast was so entertaining! These edits are just *chef's kiss*
It was the plan to a degree @41:00 . In an interview a few years ago someone asked that question - Was this story planned from the beginning of ARR or 1.0? Answer was that a super skeletal/basic key plot point structure was built at the start of 1.0 / ARR and then lots of details and threads were built over the years
Theory: The Lahabrea from before the Final Day who was an intellectual was a different Lahabrea from the one who remained Unsundered. As in, the Lahabrea you meet was the next person to hold the title, rather than the one everyone praised.
It's funny because while Jesse is talking about how you guys know more and he can ask more and stuff. We also all now know more since the last time he was on. It's just fascinating.
I really loved all of the banter and discussion for the stream, but seriously the biggest thing I learned from this whole experience is that Jesse Cox must be a terrifying poker player.
The world map of the game is closer to the WoL's own personal map rather than being reflective of the actual world map/knowledge known by its inhabitants. If you ever read the flavor text of some of the food/clothing/minions, it clearly mentions their origins from both the New World (american equivalent continent to the unknown west) and Mercydia (a continent landmass to the south-southeast). These items existed since ARR/HW and many players theorized for ages what those lands might look like and when we would get an expansion to go there. Think the major candidates were New World, Mercydia, Radz-at-Han (also name dropped constantly since ARR) or the mainland west of The Burn were actually theorized candidates for the expansion after Stormblood, till we got curve balled with dimensional travel. And now that you're "done" with ShB you can start wildly theorizing where EW's going and so on
Light and dark aren't opposite effects though between the 1st and the Source. The people thought that light was good and dark bad but they had an oversimplified viewpoint of it. But we saw it with the aether stagnating before ShB as the light was becoming saturated in the Source and the aether in those regions was starting to stagnate.
I love that while they reveal that you're not special as a Warrior of Light, they later revealed that the WoL is special in a different way because he's a shard of the 14th Convocation Member, one of basically the rulers of the planet in the ancient unsundered times.
Remember, Emet-Selch's true name was Hades. Hades is lord of the underworld. It is not out of the realm of possibility that he would retain some semblance of power even after his death. Perhaps that's how he saved you during the Seat of Sacrifice fight.
Before Endwalker and during SoS when people saw Emet at SoS, the prevailing theory as to why he appeared there is this: To totally destroy an immortal Ascian, you must contain his soul in White Auracite and then shatter that so that the soul also shatter and be destroyed forever. HOWEVER, in the Dying Gasp, Emet destroyed the white auracite first before our WoL axed him with the axe of light. So even tho he got hit by so much light he dissipated, his soul didn't get shattered and destroyed forever but instead returned to the lifestream(ffxiv's afterlife). He's dead but not gone forever. RIP Nabriales' shard. And that's the theory...A GAME THEORY. Lol.
I'd like to take this moment to explain why people disliked Zenos, since It was mentioned briefly in the video. It's like how James Cordon always finds a way to slip into movies and specials when nobody asked for it. For instance, why was he in the Friends Reunion show? People dislike James Cordon because he's always around and nobody knows why he belongs there. We thought we were done with Zenos in 4.0 but then he kept popping back up, little by little, over the course of 3 years. What is he doing? Why is he here? Who knows! But he's DTF. I think some people lost patience with the character. Other villains in FFXIV get way less screen time but still have more character development.
This is a lot of it for me. I didn't like his character much in Stormblood but he was a decent antagonist that just wanted to destroy stuff. I was glad when he was dead and done. Then they revived him, something I don't care for much anyway. And then is thrust again into the spotlight while never really developing until its far too late. I just hated every second he was on screen by the time EW hit.
Please read the short stories posted on the lodestone the Tales from the shadows were written during shadowbringer so no spolers story 4 and 7 are about emet and answer alot of questions into the inter personal stuff
