Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition has refocused the role that mankind plays in the game, and it is AWESOME. Don't miss the Kickstarter for our new Shadowdark RPG module, The Shucked Oyster: www.kickstarte...
To put it in Jungian terms, playing Vampire can be a very productive way of facing and integrating aspects of your own shadow. You safely get to do things you would never do in reality, and you even get to enjoy doing them. But if played correctly you also get to experience the cost of doing them. That’s why it’s a game of ‘personal horror’- because you should be at least a little unsettled by what you are prepared to do and who you would become, given the opportunity.
I really came around on 5th Edition, recently. Their effort to refocus the scale of the game to the burdened, hopeless neonates trapped in a MLM from hell pays off in my opinion. Also hunger dice are a great idea, i always hated blood mana.
Great video. I also loved the one about vampires as the mafia, it's great. I hope you can make more about the other line of games, specially Hunter in oWOD.
For a one shot I played a Malkavian that hid in plain sight by openly declaring himself to be a vampire and joining really embarrassing clubs of larpers and stuff.
"We are entering Federal territory now my friend, we must be careful not to thread on their toes since we depend on their co-operation to operate and carry out our duties. We will present ourselves to the agents in charge of this juristiction, with a bit of luck they will even assist us." "Hmmm, never thought i'd work with the FBI." "It's not the FBI old friend!" "Oh so what are they, CIA, NSA?" "Oh no, they're worse. Much, much worse!"
Well, if they pay taxes it means they have rights as far as the taxman is concerned, and if they pay a lot of taxes, well that means they have a lot of rights too.
Played a thinblood with all of the traits that make you more human and was basically indistinguishable from one. And every anarch couldn't handle the balls of the man showing up to every meeting with KFC and pepsi Being as close to human as possible can make you surprisingly powerful in a world of stiffs, like being able to show up past sunrise to save a vamp from the inevitable.
Yeah, it's just too bad you gotta design a character like that from the ground up. That would have been my characters while growth arc if i had an ounce of cooperation from anyone at the table
This is exactly how you play the better man in a game like vampire. You hold on to as much of your humanity as possible and drag others to your path by giving them a better way.
Bronze Age Pervert going on about the Trad Cath Mestizo papal infantry warding off the a siege of RadFem WEF thrals. The concept was hilarious, but I suspect more plausible than any of us would admit.
They are illustrated during the fall of Vienna in the lst pages of the player's handbook, I think Black ops operatives armed with rifles with incendiary rounds as primary and blessed longswords for cqc
I like how they framed it as "The Church/Secret Services don't go public about Vampires existing because people would witch-hunt each other", totally makes sense and it's a nice way of having the Second Inquisition and Masquerade at the same time
It's realistic too. It's how the real life which hunts went. People were turning on each other left and right. Someone offends you? Claim his wife is a witch. Want your neighbors land? You've seen him consorting with demons in the forest. A woman rejects you? I think she ate those kids who went missing last month.
I mean, it's more that they don't go public because nobody would actually _believe_ them. And, in the case of the intelligence community, it's because they're too _paranoid_ to share any information.
They do this in the series called The Dresden Files too, mostly. The idea is that humanity is a fucking nuke, basically. The moment they fully accept that magic and fae and necromancy exists is the moment you get a radioactive universe from the absolute batshit insanity it would cause
As Cotton Mather himself pointed out, the trick to ending witch hunts in New England was to accuse the wife of someone political and influential enough to say “right, we’re done here, time to move on.”
My man, coming home after a long night fighting monsters, and finding the flat empty was one of the worst things that has ever happened to me while gaming.
Again I am one of the minority VtR players (1st edition mostly) but this was ABSOLUTELY how I handled PC’s who went too far. Wanna act up? Well. Then you get to meet up with the Hunters who aren’t just desperate people; you get to meet up with TFV… in their power armor. And the neat thing is? You can make this a cornerstone of a campaign. Let the abuses and blood wars get too visible. Then hope you can survive the dawn raids from the Inquisition and Task Force Valkyrie. Or even weirder shit. See here some of the antagonistic THINGS in the Werewolf line.
Old school represent. For every campaign, I created some low level hunters who were always active and might wind up on the PC's trail if they screwed up. Usually local cops who know nothing of the supernatural (who had Cam/Anarch ghoul moles in their department to keep an eye on them) because they would be the first to see the usual evidence (exsanguinated bodies etc). Then one tier up, a couple of feds at the local field office, one of whom has suspicions that something like vampires might exist, but nothing concrete. Next tier up, The Society of Leopold had a couple of moles in strategic places (law enforcement, coroner's office), silently listening for clues. Next up, an SoL strike team that starts out unaware and outside the area. Then I let the chips fall where they may based on player actions, off camera. I pulled no punches on hunters, but the hunters were very cautious and meticulous about their work.
Okay but....The Camarilla running a massive surveillance state in the modern world does kind of make sense...I mean, forget about the church somehow not being evil on near every level. Politicians love, no, crave power to a level that makes a Kindred's desire for blood seem like a tiny little case of the munchies. There's no need to say 'oh the end is nigh' if you can pull a full on satire of the modern surveillance state.
Interesting take but it undermines greatly the fact evil is also in humanity. Vampires are not alone against the living. As humanity preys on itself, there will always be humans who will thrive and enjoy working for vampires, no matter if they are bought with gold, blood or promises. And it's how vampires survive in the 21st century.
And? it doesnt matter if a person is good or bad if they find out a predeator that prefers eating humans is around their first thought will how do I protect myself and the people I love. There are some people who will be willing to work for them but if the monster ever appears weak or cant meet the promises made they will have surounded themselves with people who will betray anything for their own desires
@@blacklodgegames So religious zealots and over-reaching intelligence agencies operating completely off the books and in a blatantly illegal fashion to orchestrate a secret genocide is... "good"?
I don't know, man... If the objective was to make me want to play vampires in V5, this video only made me want to play Catholic vampire hunters. Looks like the only Hunter: the Reckoning book is still the one from 1999. 😥
Remember back in the earlier editions where Cain would hold court in the First City and orate about how, on the Day of Judgement, the One Above All would punish Kindred and that their cries for mercy would fall on deaf ears?
You're literally talking about the second of eight signs of Gahenna as if it's the end of the story. The Traditional Foes increase their violence, AND THEN the Antediluvians awaken. The inquisition is a problem for the Camarilla who doesn't believe in Gehenna, sure, but there is not, "the good guys always win" in the world of darkness, because the "good guys" aren't even playing the right game. The idea that there's good guys in the world of darkness is itself a ridiculous concept when you consider the inquisition itself is sponsored by the Sabbat and the Technocracy.
Oh boy finding good Vampire Masquerade content has been a trial and a half, but thank you guys for providing. I would say my character for my Gms Vampire chronicle is fully committed to finding a cure for his vampirism, but in your opinion how can I have that be my goal without like hamstringing the party?
@@blacklodgegames Oh, still not gonna stop me from trying to retain my humanity though. Even if it’s just a tear drop of humanity within me by the end of the chronicle, I think it would still be worth it.
I say this from the bottom of my heart: BLG is f--king onto something with these types of XoD vids. This made my hairs stand up on end man. XoD fans are out here f--king STARVING for good content and you two are delivering more (in terms of video content) than Paradox Interactive, White Wolf, Onyx Path, or Renegade Studios ever did COMBINED. I could care less about making you two feel good and blowing smoke up your ass for w/e reason; I'm just being 100% honest. This content is f--king FIRE and I want MOAR. . I know from past livestreams you two aren't the biggest fans of Mage which sucks because I would LOVE BLG to cover Mage in the same way it's covering vampire. F--k man if you think about it ESPECIALLY in the context of the video, The Technocracy should have always been the multi splat spanning antagonist every splat should have had. Outside the storytelling system itself and the shared world, The Technocracy should have always been the connective tissue that binds all the games together. This could range from total normies delivering precision missile strikes (1:45) onto careless vampire princes, cleaning out Black Spiral Lairs with HIT Marks, or dragging Changelings kicking and screaming back to the lab. And they don't do this because they're cartoonishly evil. They do this because they're fucking horrorfied of what they discovered. They're the result of what happens when humanity is utterly united against a threat ala the end of the original Watchmen comic and movie. . tl;dr: GREAT video. Pretty please try to warm up to mage content. ;)
I can't say I agree with you 100%. I mean, that was always the theme of Vampire and always very present way before 5e. AKA - that if they got 'too loud' humanity was going to come down on them like a ton of bricks. Even the Sabbat (in the early books) would destroy or mutilate packs that broke the masquerade too much (assuming it could get the government agencies involved).
You kind of proved him right in your own comment though. "Even the Sabbat would destroy or mutilate packs that broke the masquerade too much." Exactly, the Sabbat, not Humanity. That's his point I think, it was always the vampires enforcing the masquerade on themselves and the reason why being just fluff basically, now instead of even the Sabbat mutilating or destroying packs that broke the masquerade it's Vatican black ops squads destroying packs that break the masquerade. That makes the idea of the masquerade actually believable, instead of being "oh you broke the rules now we punish you" it's more like "this is WHY we have these rules, now suffer the consequences."
This argument carries its own demise within itself. If we assume that humanity is competent in VtM, then by consequence vampires must be doubly so; firstly because they started out human, secondly because vampires have to outplay humans on a daily basis just to survive, let alone thrive. Humanity simply cannot win against vampires without plot armour, which this whole spiel about human agencies getting their shit together is. If anything, the modern age is providing more and more means for vampires to secure total victory. Do you honestly think that the Camarilla will just twiddle its thumbs while AI and mass surveillance become widespread? That the Catholic Church is a threat to anyone who isn't a minor? That the Sabbat and its Tzimisce membership would ignore the potential in a Vicissitude-enhanced global plague? Yes but then you have to deliberately pull an "old vampires dumb" as well as a good ol' "humanity fuck yeah", at which point you might as well be playing 40K. I would also argue that it is precisely the power trip and its consequences that make VtM so interesting. Power does not corrupt, it only enables the corruption within you to come alive from its dormancy. That's where the "Beast" gets you, which is ultimately the unconfronted darkness in all of us, which is kept in check less by our conscious choices and character and more by our lack of power. It is easier to "do good" and "be good" if indulging your impulses is not a viable option: there is no true choice. Just consider how common "swatting" has become (in short: when someone sends cops to a streamer's house via false claims; there are youtube vids about this), that should be proof enough. And lastly: good? Evil? Hero? Monster? They are all judgements. You cannot objectively become either, only within a commonly accepted set of values. One nation's butcher is another nation's hero in a war.
@@blacklodgegames Times have changed vastly since the First Inquisition, vampires included. I would also classify it as "quality control culling". Morality is rooted in whatever values a given individual or group proscribes to exist. Sure, there are practical bits of morality revolving around maintaining good relationships and a sustainable environment but it is ultimately subjective. Whenever a large enough group emerged proposing their brand of objective morality, it inevitably went horribly wrong, history is littered with them.
I firmly believe that any ttrpg is about what your particular table prefers (and yes, I know that it's extremely controversial in the community in general and specifically in WoD). But the concept itself is pretty empowering
I can agree with that, I've often gotten a lot of push back when I've said there is no wrong way to play. Just the wrong way for a given group. Sadly the ability to recognize this and leave respectfully seems to be a lost art.
I love your streams… but your videos are on a whole other level. The script and delivery are magnificent. The music and the visuals are great. Excellent job! Looking forward to more videos. Thank you.
Man, this feels like how we used to play Masquerade when we started some 25 years back. That is to say the most boring and paranoid play possible - "you make one mistake you mess up the Masquerade and you have Vamp Kill Team 6 offing your character". That kind of approach to the game makes you play the most paranoid game you possibly can, which for a good deal of people won't be fun. If that's what your table enjoys, all the power to them, but this shouldn't be the default for every game. This is why I love that small note in Requiem 2e that flat out tells you that Traditions are meant to be broken. It is more dramatic to try hiding a secret childe you had without permission than to have the opening of Bloodlines 1 play out with you instantly getting staked and beheaded. It is more interesting if you murder some other vampire and get away with it, or if someone finds out they use it as a leverage against you rather than instantly turning you in. And similaly, it's more interesting if you have to do damage control after a Masquerade breach by tracking the various witnesses down and dealing with them rather than the situation instantly escalating to a killsquad. Besides, have you seen how dysfunctional people and organisations can really be? How January 6th wasn't stopped by the military or the police, how Trump almost got got by a lone wolf despite having secret service and police knowing about the guy? How you have Panama Papers and Epstein files just sitting there with nobody getting charged with anything? How some big religions in the US have blacksites where people disappear in? How an entire police squad didn't want to go into a school to stop one kid with a gun? Or heck, remember how in 2016 we had a lot of weird clown sightings and nothing came of that? Chances are sure the police and other people would know about vampires and werewolves, but their modus operandi would be "there is a frenzied vampire on the loose, all cops avoid the area unless you also want to be the victim". Take the cynical view that is so prevelant in the World of Darkness and assume nobody would get involved unless the situation would threaten the bottom line of someone rich and important, which guess what, chances are would be a supernatural or their underling. Also, if you want things to be "realistic", why stop at someone breaking the Masquerade? If the world already knows about vampires because someone messed up at some point in the past and there are entire organisations that have vivisected a few vampires, why would they be stopping at being reactive rather than proactive? Why wouldn't they be deploying thermal cameras everywhere to see who's a walking corpse? Why wouldn't they be sending people to natural vampire feeding places like bars, clubs and so on and snooping out if there is a leech problem there? Why wouldn't they be monitoring sewers for Nosferatu activity? Why wouldn't they keep a close eye on everyone with a blackout blinds in their house or everyone who logs onto the Internet only during nighttime hours? Why wouldn't they track all cars at night and see if any of them congregate in one place regularly while normally they never meet? Why wouldn't they viciously interrogate anyone they capture that could lead them to other vampires? Just because the PCs didn't break the Masquerade doesn't mean the world would hold its punches... But in the end, it's all about what kind of stories you want to tell at your table collectively. If you do want to have characters be afraid of getting themselves exposed, go for it. If you want to throw cars in a setting where people are afraid to call the cops because they would be victimised or where all the social media have algorithms that suppress sightings of the supernatural, you can have that too. It's all up to your party.
Past editions didn't dismiss a breach of the traditions as "a slap on the wrist", violations were always portrayed in the books as at the least, you're getting staked; humiliated and tortured, and at worst, death. V5 took the second inquisition seriously and that's commendable, but it plays very fast and loose with the lore. Outright changes aspects of the clans and the setting, it's a reboot; not a continuation.
Correct, the current edition is a mixed bag. We are planning a series of clan videos addressing some of the big issues with them as well. The good things in V5 are *great*, the bad things are *really* bad.
definitely a reboot or a "safe and corrected" version of it, with not a few problems. But some good things too, like the one explained in the video. sure, in the past a masquarade breach was a bad thing, but it's consequence stopped at the will of the sheriff or prince and no setting-changing consequences would really come out of it. In V5 a masquarade breach is potentially devastating for all the vampires in a whole region if not nation (and rightfully so). It's a severe challenge for the PC, while in the past was just an annoyance. It's good because curatils the power of the players, and rebalance the powerscale between their vampire pcs and mere humans.
@@TertiumNondatur-e2j old VtM handwaved a lot of the BTS of covering up masquerade breaches. You were hunted by vampires rather than humans because so many palms needed to be greased by those vampires with the power to cover up for your transgressions. At least, that's how I've always understood it.
@@kdolo1887 sure! and that's why masquarade problems never got beyond the vampire court. But it's not the 90s anymore. It wouldn't make sense to keep doing that in the always connected- information submerged world we live in today. THe answer to that is: humanity knows of vampirism, and they're fighting it (2nd inq.)
Yes. In the 90s it was still easy to be a vampire, the risk of getting caught was small. As the danger due to the modern age increased, vampires turned from disgusting monsters into beautiful, shiny-skinned handsome boys. Could it be a coincidence? Fortunately, no one wants their existence to be revealed. Neither they, nor the secret services, and even if these two made a mistake, the New World Order would intervene with all its might. So the whole thing can remain a cool secret war. Humans VS Vampires
I’ve held off on starting a new V5 game until I see the rest of your stuff in this subject. I’m enjoying it thoroughly. Would love to see your takes on the anarchs and sabat.
I feel like this swings too far in the other direction. If you take the world seriously, like really seriously, then you would realize that humans are bad enough at dealing with mundane problems that I have little faith in our ability to offer effective resistance to an immortal race of superpowered cannibals. It also feels strange to equate humanity with good. Mythical heroes are special. They don't represent humanity in general. Now, I agree that vampires are evil and self-destructive. That being the case, I think it would be more suitable to portray humanity as a giant, dysfunctional, but nonetheless unstopable machine. It's broken in a hundred different ways, slow to react, and prone to error but will crush you if you're too bold and stupid. Humanity crushes vampires not because they're hyper-competent or morally superior but because at the end of the day they can live without vampires and vampires can never live without them.
Thing about humanity is that we're not that good at ~solving~ problems, but we've got a real knack for ~blowing problems up~. We might drag our feet when it comes to stuff like global warming or Covid. But directing the entire might of the military-industrial complex toward the total genocide of a race of beings? That is (unfortunately) right in our wheelhouse.
isn't that just because mundane problems are mundane? think a vampire cabal would be treated more like a terrorist org. than climate change, covid, or some pest infestation
Mundane issues aren't the same as an enclave of super-mafia blood drinkers. You cant shoot away Flu season. You can shoot away Vampires. Of course, some are going to fall through the cracks but in a universe with mages, technocrats, hunters, and other vampires infighting, they will be reduced to the point of nonexistence eventually. Hell, the reason why the Technocracy doesn't target them outside of specific circumstances is because they know it would be more efficient to just let them kill each other off, and they will eventually crumble under their own weight.
I mean, personally, i always found the idea of playing a hunter or a more normal human and standing against all the things that go bump in the night more to my liking. When you are in way over your head fighting monsters that can turn you into chuncky salsa with a touch, but you use everything at your disposal to blind side them, it is an absolute blast of a time.
I believe that your are correct that humans are a force to be reckoned with, but I think it's more in the way of a storm. Yes it is a force to be reckoned with, but that doesn't mean you can't survive. i.e "The comming storm cannot be stopped, but it can be endured."
Ummmm this is how we played it in 2nd ed back in the 90's. Inquisition, government agents, werewolves, technocracy, hunters, etc etc etc were all parts of the game and my group ensured it was done right. Blood hunt wasn't the last recourse, it was the primary solution unless you had ties in Elysium.
Humans have the advantage of innovation and ingenuity. The problem with immortals is that they aren't visionary. They live forever but live in the moment. I would go so far as to say vampirism would be akin to a subtle mental disorder. They aren't stupid, per se, but vampires are never going to industrialize.
I can see some vamps hoping the Antediluvians that are left rise up, in the vain (vein?) hope that they can pluck the thorn of modern humanity from the paw of the vampire. Hmmm I may make a v5 character like that.
I feel the need to highlight, while this video is certainly a valid interpretation of a way you can run/play vampire, to say vampire reveling in the curse is a "profound misunderstanding of the game" (4:58) is demonstrably false. In fact saying the world of darkness "there is no illusion the monsters will win in the end" or that the good guys will always win is actually demonstrably- a profound misunderstanding of the setting. Spoilers Bellow: In the world of darkness the setting is doomed. If you follow vampire the original "apocalypse scenario" was either the rapture happened and vampires had to escape existence, The vampires are given a trial by god to be redeemed many of which fail, or the antediluvians awoke and Tzimisce liquidated and absorbed the mortal population (unless stopped by the characters who actually then are the good triumphing over evil and get to retain their abilities without the downsides of the curse. The only example of the monsters not winning in the end all be it thanks to the monsters). In the larger world, should the vampire apocalypse fail to be enacted, demon the fallen, werewolf the apocalypse (in the name), wraith the oblivion all have their own end of days scenarios (ones that the humans likewise wont be able to stop). Hunters and humans as a whole are characterized by their own willingness to join in with evil (being aiding the dark powers or "the ends justify the means"), turn a blind eye, or still come up with the wrong conclusion despite all their technological advances. Enjoy killing a bit to much, even vampires many of whom still retain their humanity, and you become a monster yourself in the form of a "slasher". Even if the end of days were averted slashers and true fae from changeling the lost would continue to plague humanity and ruin individual lives until the end of time. It should also be said, that if you specifically build a character for combat (something that is not always done as the multiple dice system can be make it tedious) and play smart it is actually quite easy to wipe out entire strike teams of hunters with little to no risk regardless of what their equipped with. Vampires have super human endurance, strength, speed, senses, and magic and are capable of using all of the technology humans can and more. Their only weaknesses being religious artifacts, fire, and the claws/teeth of were wolves. It should be noted this was easier in older editions, especially v20, were as their viability in combat took quite a nerf in 5e. The main reason vampires are on the back foot is due to their own self imposed incompetence/reliance on the masquerade having left them complacent. Few to no sheriffs, for example, have more than 3 dots in any of their disciplines yet have a wide range of skills and additional disciplines for the sake of "the masquerade" even though at a first glance this shouldn't be part of their job description. Your average well trained soldier having 3 dots in the relevant stat/skill with a specialty rolling 7 dice you can slog off bullets and melee strikes provided you have a good amount in fortitude, incendiary ammunition can be shot an ignited killing the user well before it can be used on a vamp with a reasonable amount of celerity, and even with religious artifacts like swords your not likely to best a vampire in melee if they have specked for it. Vampires take more to kill, hit harder, faster, and more frequently. And that's only if they choose to engage you directly. Any weapons humans could turn against vampires can also be used by the vampires themselves. If you add in the fact vampires can have literal fortunes as a background and their ability for super-strength they could be outfitted with weapons and armor any human couldn't hope of using, also potentially nullifying their inherent weaknesses. Again, if you want to run a game with the mentality outlined in the video then that's fine, but you its a design choice not an inherent truth. Should your storyteller/game-master have a different mind/understanding of the setting and you were to tell them they have a "profound misunderstanding of the game" its not likely to go down well. Especially if they've been playing since the 90's.
@@blacklodgegames Guess that tell's people all they need to know about how much value your opinion/input has. More fool me for engaging in discussion in the first place, i suppose. Shame really. Thanks for saving me from committing any further time, and good luck with the channel 😘
I love content like this. You guys always have something interesting to say on this subject. Also, this totally makes sense. In a world of mass surveillance, camera phones and Big Data, it would be almost impossible to hide, especially over a long term. And there's something truly refreshing about the idea that the biggest threat is not another monster or an evil god or a cabal of techno-wizards but just plain ole vanilla humanity, with our vast numbers and terrifying weapons. That's not an enemy you can fight, that's one you try to survive.
This is by far the best explanation I ever received of a warning about the masquerade!! Thank you! I usually put a strict rules when come to masquerade. Only 3 and you’re DEAD.. Break one level . Vampire see you as suspicious and harder to negotiation with them but they won’t be hostile towards my players. Human Only few journalist stalk them. Break level 2. Vampires see how careless you are and even will scorn you out of hand unless if it utter necessity and personal gain from you. They won’t speak to you. difficulty of 4 and above. Humans You being stalk by man in black with well spy equipment and guns. Difficulty of 4 upon speaking with and all time being carry recording device in order to avoid being used discipline on them. (My LASOMBRA player love to tormented them with it haha!) Level three break masquerade 3 NO VAMPIRE EVER WANT TO SPEAK TO YOU and might even kill you upon see you with no witness . You are danger to them all. Humans Your haven already being market by the special forces team with snipers all over building with kill team specialized on kill target with less eyes noticed .
One fun prologue idea you can do for a VTM game is to play as your group's sires, on the day the Masquerade died, some time before your main game starts. Show the real terror and panic that resonates in a city as the Vamp's entire world crumbles around them, almost killing them, and giving your characters, a real, lived fear of the world they've been thrust into because they have the tales of the Sires who watched it all burn.
I just found this channel, I enjoyed the video and lore, but I would've subscribed regardless of my personal enjoyment, as you're a fellow lamb of brother Bill Fisher. We must expand the cult.
This sucks. This is too far. We're pushing the knob to 10, we're gonna need this concept toned down to a 5 or 7. Humans and the masquerade are important and worthy threats, but this is absurd. Old VtM maybe had humanity be too weak, but this and the second inquisition is trash.
It's a bold take, saying how revelling in the power is misunderstanding the game. It comes across as telling people they're playing the game wrong, which is a pointless stance to take in a hobby centred around improv. I always saw it as a game of survival in a grim setting, where anything can prove your undoing.
You are completely correct that the core theme of vampire the masquerade is survival. The op has very strong opinions of how his world of darkness is like which is common with fans of the game. Sadly it always causes friction. The op is literally calling people the devil cause their take on humanity in wod is less idealistic than his. It's a bit sad.
@@doncoyote68 I agree. I think revelling in power is a natural reaction, at least at first. You learn of this new existence, there's uncertainty and fear, then you find out what you can do. Feeling powerful does feel good and people can get hooked on that. It can also lead to one's downfall and the OP even talks about how that's a good thing. But we should live and let live. People playing differently doesn't hurt anyone.
Paths of Enlightenment are better than Humanity. I never understood why the creators were hell-bent on forcing you to play weepy-ass Louis when deep down we're all Lestats.
Humanity IS a path. It's Vampires aping being human to stave off the Beast, that's why it was so much more restrictive than a human just being human. Ironically, Paths are exactly the kind of "Evil is fun" that this video is railing against.
@@kdolo1887 Paths are the logical conclusion for the villains. Your psyche would likely not survive if you stuck to humanity. You are right though, that some of the paths are just unrepentant evil. An interesting topic to think about.
@kdolo1887 Yeah but how many games can you possibly play where you are sitting around crying about living forever with superpowers. For my friends, not even once lol.
Can we all take a moment, to bask in the hypocrisy, given the world as it is right now, of humans pretending that they are somehow not the monsters on the same level as any vampire. Not a single one of the real true genocides of the world, was the fault of vampires. It's canon that from the shitty Austrian painter, to the mega genocide of the Americas, and everything that happened in the real world before or after, it's on humanity. I applaud 5th edition for upping the stakes of the game. But humanity doesn't get a pass on its ends and an easy route to throw on the cloak of the good guys because there are other monsters out there. It's not about the triumph of the good. It's about humanity countenancing the existence of no monsters except itself. The bulk of the world will not tolerate being afraid of something above them in the food chain. Sharks, wolves, athletes of a different skin color. Women who make them feel small because they are small. The existence of a pretty thing they can't possess. Nah. Humanity isn't the loan hero in the darkness. It's the devil explaining that hell has room for exactly one satan and it ain't you, vlad.
In the older version of world of darkness you always had this interesting means of balance. And the balance was that characters who started weak had the most potential for growth. And characters who started strong would quickly peak and be out classed. It was easier to play a werewolf. But a werewolf could never be as strong as a vampire. Vampires were kind of a middle ground but a high generation vampire at it's core is basically a human. Weak but with huge potential for growth. On the other hand a true human could get true faith which was basically a defensive aura that also had the potential of doing enormous damage. That was a big thing in the dark ages book. If your vampires were too public eventually inquisition would come and amongst them would be high level true faith wielders and just getting near them would slaughter you.
I think you're veering off course a bit with this one. Humanity is a threat to vampires, sure, but having it be the major one because of progressing technology is beyond stupid. Vampires can use this technology too, have powers that circumvent tech and pull the strings behind the innovators. The overestimation of technology is a typical sign of the modern progressive and atheist hubris where science solves all problems and everything old and traditional (like vampires) is viewed as outdated, ineffective and to be discarded. It's soulless. The threat from without is just another aspect of the setting as are the threat from within and the personal horror. They work together and create variety to give the game depth. That's why Requiem and V5 lore sucks. They have no soul.
Finally, someone gets it. I've always played V:tM with high regards about Humanity/Paths, and how thr real "personal horror" is about how the path score is going to slip no matter what. Even the nicest, most humane of vampires is just one frenzy, one hunger pang, one bad day away from ripping his best friend's throat out.
My problem with Humanity is that most people treated it like some kind of morality system. Humanity has nothing to do with good or bad. Humanity can be understood very simply and very consistently: it’s your connection to life as a human being. Vampires have an innate desire to kill, which is magical in nature. This desire is kept in check by one’s connection to humanity. Generally speaking, all mentally sound humans have Humanity 10, even if they are immoral. The experience of becoming a vampire and feeding regularly automatically lowers your Humanity, which is why Kindred don’t start with 10.
I have a lot of dislike over 5th edition (changes how power works, took away Tremere unity that was a core part of the clan, the fact that this edition printed a book that got the company eaten by their owner, etc), but the second inquisition is a good idea. Lord knows, after all the crap the Sabbat pulled, it's no wonder people found out. That said, I think it got too much "Humanity fuck yeah" in the book, mainly due to the simple idea: Vampires cannot take out all of humanity. Except the second inquisition didn't tell humanity. It keeps the secret locked away to a chosen elite, who plan on doing the hunting themselves. Which is their downfall. See, mobs cannot be controlled, manipulated, or even mostly pointed. They rampage, they burn, and the kindred still bare the marks to this day even centuries later. But Governments? Governments are filled with people who want power, influence, and (now that they know its an option), a chance to live forever. Yeah, they have tech to spot 'blank bodies'. But ghouls and thin bloods are built for infiltrating, and as has happened in conflict after conflict, they marvel at their shiny toys (seriously, look at their rules and see that babbles on more about their equipment than the technocratic union does), but they fail to see that it is the rot within that will get them. Seriously, when you read the book look up the parts that gush about how well trained, equipped, and bad assed the russian units are. Now remember how underequipped, undertrained, and corrupt they were when they invaded Ukraine (which happened after their book came out). Care to bet which part of the second inquisition sells out first? In all seriousness, inquisition part 2: electric boogalo is a great idea, but since it relies on toys and believes its own propaganda, it's going to get infiltrated faster than the catholic church did. Humanity is awesome, and the damned fear it for a reason, but mortal governments are manned by people who would sell out their citizens for a drop of vitae.
I mean blood bond and ghouling looks very powerful in Hunter the Parenting and with how the world currently is I can imagine Woke crowd vehemently defending Vampire rights and such. Reminds me of a Legion Of Superheroes quote from Braniac "Evil does not die it Evolves." With Humanity becoming the monsters as they keep vampires caged and drinking from their just to get high and the stirring in the apocalypse with the Wyrm.
V5 and gWoD is such absolute trash compared to classic VtM and oWoD. Humanity always mattered in oWoD, and in no way has the garbage-fire that is the new setting "refocused" things, let alone made them "awesome".
Well said my friend, well said. To me the message of Vampire has always been: There is a monster in all of us. So will you let it win, or instead struggle to see it's defeat?
If you think that History is written by Heroes, then you haven't been paying attention. History is written by Monsters with Delusions of Grandeur.. upon The Blood and Bodies of Good and Naive People.
@@blacklodgegames art is an imitation of Life. And Life is about Adaptation. Those who don't, Die. The Fact that they have chosen to Go this Route, shows how Idealistically Bankrupt they have become. "Oh, The Humans Win in The End? Oh, how Original." 👏👏👏 It's no wonder this Franchise is practically forgotten.
@@blacklodgegames But that's how V5 feels if you actually follow the lore around SI. With how much surveillance there is in the 21st century and how easily SI killed Elders who had demigod levels of power, your Neonate Brujah with their 2 Potence and 1 Celerity is a tick on the back of a dog that's about to be sprayed with bug spray. To be frank, I don't need a game for that, that's already the reality of anyone who wasn't born with a silver spoon in their mouth throughout human history.
This is a great question, and I hope they give some thoughts. I know that for me, my games were much more a sort of sequential horror story than the political intrigue that seems to be the actual play YT and Twitch norm. I would love to see a more action oriented LP myself or perhaps more of a “fix it guy” sort of tales. My games have always revolved around the kind of dynamics @blacklodgegames talked about in their “it’s like the mafia” video. My favorite fames were when I put my PCs up against not known antagonists. I had some serious old school munchkin type guys. Wonderful gamers, but min maxing veterans. So I gave them non standard antagonists. Things from WtF mostly. Which was amazing. Because they had NO CLUE how to deal with them in a sane way. How do you deal with 500 supernatural rats in a f@$&ing trench coat? It forced some great creative problem solving.
I find your videos conflicting. Depending on which video I watch you both exalt and revile this game. For me, I see two main weaknesses of it. The first there is trying to sweep all of the "junk" that was in the original (the massive amount of bloodlines, and over complicated stories) and it's very strong Social Justice taint. How do YOU resolve this?
The game is very flawed, and it's riddled with left politics for sure, but there are some great aspects to it. It's a game that we will run for a long time despite being very annoyed by some parts of it. It gets some of the bigger picture issues right, which is why it is compelling.
In other words, the videos are conflicting because the game is in conflict with itself. It's a big mixed bag so when we focus in on one issue we tend to either love it or hate it
take what's good in it and throw away the rest. You can keep the older lore if you prefer it but add in the second inquisition, for example. I'm planning on doing, one day, an unholy mix of lore and rules between V20, Vampire : Requiem 2nd (best ruleset imho), and some elements of V5.
@@blacklodgegames I guess I just don't understand why I should buy v5 when everything you like about it is narrative and everything you dislike about it is mechanical
All good points, which highlight why I actually prefer V5 to OWOD in many ways. However, the World of Darkness is presented as a darker version of our reality, and it seems a deeply corrupt "deep state" and its entrenched oligarch would not care for their fellow man being exploited but would most definitely be in immortality or becoming kindred on their own terms rather than following the edicts of a sect. The point of contention being that the influential oligarchs simply do not tolerate another competitor for their influence. Granted there is the True faith angle, but in a world where belief is waning (since it mirrors our own), it woudln't be as big a factor as that (at least in the West). It seems to me the logical response would be the deeply entrenched deep state to co opt and absbord kindredom into their sphere of influence or just get embraced and then destroy the competition, ofc that's not as thematically interesting. But it seems to me that would be the natural progression of the setting.
I'm pretty god damn sure that Mithras survives in three out of four scenarios in V5... Before I think it was just him slowly replacing Montgomery Coven cause the dude bit a little more than he could chew (TLDR : don't diablerize Methuselas)
Citing that there are so many stories about Humanity triumphing over the forces of evil reminds me of a short Greek story in which a man is conversing with a lion in front of a statue depicting Hercules slaying the Nemean lion. He tries to use the statue as proof of mankind's superiority over beasts, only for the lion to retort with "It was a human who carved it." - Which basically means that those stories about humanity's victory are just a case of humanity stroking its own ego. Why would Humanity want to tell stories which depict itself in less positive light, or as being inferior to their enemies? The point of the story is meant to inspire Humanity, not demoralize it. In a 'realistic' setting, that actually understands the nature of Humanity and its psychology, the monsters would have a far easier time of it than our pop culture stories would have us believe. After all, while it's true there are many stories about Humanity triumphing over monsters, there are also many stories which now present Humanity as being the 'greatest monster of all.' Why do you think so many monsters are depicted as being able to mimic the appearance of humans? It serves as a metaphor for humanity's own savage nature, and a warning that anyone of us could become just as bad as the creatures we fight. "He who fights with monsters should be careful, lest he himself become one."
The current publisher would never have the balls to publish a proper game or supplement, but it would be really cool to play the Inquisition and see it from the other side. I know there's Hunter but not only is that a trash fire in the current edition, the lore for hunters themselves is really uninteresting.
I did have the idea of playing a Greek Tragic style hero, a Ventrue embraced and raised up in the military, basically using his powers to be a nocturnal Captain America, but was forced to return to civilian life when the military started scouring their ranks of vampires wherever they could be found. Still an evil vampire with a Ventrue superiority complex, but compared to others he seems like a tragic hero, saving lives with vampire powers, but forced to feed on those same lives to survive.
In the military, first formation is usually between 0600 and 0800, standing tall in the sunrise. So basically, the ranks would be scoured of kindred almost every morning. Probably ex-military before the embrace would work better.
I figured his sire would’ve been in the higher brass along with a few other plants by the Camarilla, ensuring the spread and keeping track of government knowledge, the same way they do in civilian society. He would’ve probably been excluded from typical drills, due to being part of a later guard rotation or set in a different sector entirely to standard troops. We are told that the kindred have infiltrated all forms of government and organizations, at least before the Information Age, so he would’ve been returning to civilian life just as cellphones were becoming a big thing.
I had a V:TR character concept that was some what similar, in so far as it was a vampire trying to do good with it's powers. He was a Mekhet who used Auspex to act a psychic investigator aiding the police. The cops he worked with figured out pretty quickly that the pale guy who only came out at night and had spooky powers was a vampire, but they actively covered for him because he helped bring down some of the worst mortal scum in the city.
What I like about V5 is how it kicked open the doors to things. Things that were are not anymore. Indeed the Chantry failing, their blood failling, it opened up so much. You can have Tremere who are REBELS. Or have their own ideas... So yeah I like what they have done!
