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@@calronkeltaran493paladin tanks won’t have it as they will have picked up consecration first. However lion is mostly useless at that level. You would get more out of might, hawk, wisdom, etc. 10% more stats when gear has so little is negligible even when combined with paladin blessings
@@simbian5900 yes good luck finding 39 other players willing to put up with possed off warriors, rogues, paladins and shaman who see hunters SR weapons they normally would not while simultaneously getting the least benefit due to having zero melee talents.
Melee hunter should focus on pet synergy. Melee abilities procing pet stuf and per abilities/crits procing melee abilities. Example: Raptor strike has a chance to proc the usage of an abiliy that applies a bleed on the target your pet is focusing. Then something else (like cleave) healing you for each bleeding target it hits (or consuming the bleed for instant damage).
I plan on running a hunter first because they are my favorite class in vanilla due to all of their mechanics. It is so satisfying to try and maximize my performance due to the high skill ceiling. Even if im not toping the charts it is still an incredible feeling to play my class to the best of my ability knowing I maximized the use of my pet and their special abilities (charge, scorpion poisons etc), melee weaving and intelligent use of my other abilities (trap placement, feign to cancel long enemy cast timesin PvP, proper sting usage in pvp and pve, tracking etc). Something about having such a wide range of tools for pve, pvp, and leveling and maximizing them is the most fun I've ever had in classic.
I feel like melee hunter as well as others like rogue tanks and mage healers are going to come into their own after another level increase or two, as well as the other things it will come with; more talent points, more engravings, and higher stats. Either way, melee hunter is gonna be my main regardless.
Reason I might actually do alliance. Getting hit by that does not sound fun, and if your alliance, its not something you gotta worry about. Assuming alliance gets some decent pvpers.
For sp hunter i would do something of instead of having them take cloth caster gear for the pure sp, add a rune where a portion of your AP, agi or maybe even stamina (for survival get it) is converted into spell power
Well I wish we got Melee Hunter support that actually worked with Lone Wolf, flanking strike is really cool, but it would be nice to have some melee support without a pet as well, I suppose.
I'm really looking forward to Hunter in the 25 bracket! They were already topping the meters in low level dungeons and they got amazing runes to go with it. But I think people are sleeping on pets. WIth limited gear and talents at 25, they do about 35% of the total damage you deal! I believe the best Hunter spec (and DPS overall) will be Marksmanship Talents + Sniper Training / Cobra Strikes / Beast Mastery. 80% more Lightning Breaths with 30% more damage? I don't see how Chimera Shot can keep up with this. Much less Lone Wolf.
I completly forgot: Pets should also be able to use Feral's Windfury. As it works on party members' melee, not Weapons. And pets are party members, according to every aura, blessing and Prayer of Healing.
In lowbie dungeons like wailing caverns and the like, hunters pets can often go as high as 50% of the hunters entire damage if its a fast attacking pet. I've seen many runs where my pet was out dpsing the other players all by itself.
I feel like the PURE melee hunter will come into its own after a level increase or two with more rune slots available. I personally see a lot of potential with using some melee in addition to other runes for a melee weave hunter. Or at least it'll be fun (for me). I love melee weaving with a slow gun/bow and melee weapon. Sure it wont be pure melee but it'll definitely be better than base line melee weaving. Either way, a melee hunter will be the first character I play. Followed by a druid or shaman.
A hunter, who is also a friend IRL, took a dagger that would have been a +30% dmg increase to my rogue to increase his dps by 0.5%. So yeah, they are the worst kind under the sun
Saying all Hunters are one way is like saying all blacks, or whites, or men who like men are this way. And before everyone jumps on me for saying black, I’m black, have white friends and have a mentor who is gay. I am saying it because I too heard stereotypes but we can’t let them dictate how we treat people based on stereotypes. And yes you should evaluate who he calls a friend and there friendship!!! He was wrong to take it, that’s greedy, and that’s another issue!!!
Thanks for this video.. Hunter was my very first character back in 2005 when I started playing and I loved it. I've since played around with different classes and even now was having a hard time picking between a few classes for SoD. Thanks for making it crystal clear that I need to go back to my roots! Now I'm absolutely stoked to play tonight! NE Hunter as well.. LE GO!
It seems to me like Hunter is getting at least one version of a spell power spec. Native scaling: Arcane shot, serpent sting, wyvern sting, volley. Notable runes: Chimera shot, lone wolf / master marksman, flanking strike, carve Chimera shot pops and refreshes serpent sting, and since that has 100% scaling, sounds to me like Chimera shot has 40% sp scaling. Reducing the cost of shots is important for sp hunter, but we'll see if that ends up being enough to beat lone wolf. Melee runes likely don't scale themselves, but they give you good options for popping sp scaling on hits like Dragonbreath Chili, Shadow Oil, and ones native to the weapon. If they don't add more sp ranged options, which imo they very well still may, SP hunter in PvE is gonna do a lot of weaving and in PvP is gonna be a ranged tank buster. It was already pretty good in PvP against tanks, so adding another ranged cooldown like this will help a lot. At 25 tho, your options will be limited, so the PvE version is really praying for an sp scaling on hit native to a weapon at that level.
I was told by an original vanilla player that there was a pet stat scaling patch at some point, but they quickly removed it because fel hunters were soloing players.
Because the current cap is gonna be 25 where your pet won't be power creep'd by your own gear scaling at that point, pet scaling rune will probably came at later level cap brackets
Spell power hunter in vanilla has the issue that it chugs through mana while wearing caster gear which is why it is mostly just a PvP meme spec. Arcane shot scale of SP and crits for a lot. Master Marksman (chest) and Sniper Training (legs) both are good for this spell. Chimera Shot (hands) does 125% weapon damage + 40% of Serpent stings total damage .Serpent sting also has sp scaling. So you can play a SP hunter in SoD. AQ is also when SP hunter gets a tier set so there is that to look out for.
Melee hunter will definatly be my go to for SoD. Really hope they'll make pets scale with their master though. There could be a hybrid survival melee/beastmaster build if they do :o
Yeah I'm pretty excited too. A bit disappointed with the helm's runes for Melee/BM build tho. I wished for something boosting both the hunter and its pet when they are close, Rexxar style ! This plus Flanking strikes and Carve would have been great.
Assuming that pets scale & survive raids (avoidance), Cobra Strikes & Sniper Training is going to be the META combo, given that they also get +80% Focus regen. 12+ pet ability crits per minute, and your own (although it'll most likely be lv1 Arcane shots due to mana efficiency, but still). Specifically for lv25 I'm unironically speccing into MM as a BM hunter and even get improved arcane shot. I'll be laughed at, and cry in the fetal position, but it's ok because my pet will be ravaging the boss.
Unless fights are very long, I don't think Mana will be an issue. And I think they will be, because Casters burn their Mana much faster than Hunters at Lv. 25. Personally, I'll try something similar to you, but with Aimed Shot and Improved Aspect of the Hawk.
@@bisalissy3846 Yeah I'll have to test which is better: shooting 2 extra arcane shots per minute (potential 4 extra pet crits thanks to Imp. Arc. Shot) or having the chance 5% at extra attack speed.
@@dexascan90 At first glance I'd agree, but SoD changes the context of a lot of things. Arc Shot is our cheapest and most spammable ability, making it faster means pets also crit faster
Sniper training is only "All Shots" because in effect, it is only Arcane Shot OR Aimed Shot OR Explosive shot (they all share a cooldown) AND Multi-Shot. In effect, you will only ever be using two different shots, multi-shot and one of those three. On the note of spellpower hunter; mend pet was changed from a channel to a HoT in TBC due to more +healing mail being available. With the scaling giving pets increased power, and a hunter stacking +healing gear, hunters could solo a lot of things they shouldn't have been able to with how powerful mend pet was.
For sure, I'd even be fine if Blizz just blatantly stole from GW2 Ranger Elite Spec Soulbeast where you meld with your pet and gain new abilities but you don't change form like a Druid.
Fighting alongside your pet does sound pretty badass. I am hink something like %damage when in 5 yards of your pet or something or give you pet specific abilities when in range of them would be so cool
The best way to make them is to address the fact that the dps on ranged weapons is extremely low and do something about their mana sustain in any fight that lasts more than two minutes. However that would need to come with lowering the pvp burst potential to balance the increased dps
I'll definitely main Nelf Hunter. I can't wait to catch people off guard with shadowmeld and sniper stance. Also Horde Hunter will just be aspect of Lions bots in raids lmao.
Praying on pets getting avoidance/resistance for PVE and them scaling with the hunters gear. I’ve always wanted to raid as a BM hunter, but never could.
kinda torn on the lone wolf thing, as it probably will turn out exactly like on retail. you basically won't have any choice but to take it, and with that you will be prohibited from using your pet. they need to carefully tune it to both be viable options and playing either only being a preference of taste. but we know how blizzard works. it will be most likely so far ahead and beyond other options that you won't be taken to raids if you don't use it.
@Wille, about the hunter pets I think there was an update in wowhead from the datamine info about adding some sort of AOE dmg reduce on pets and also some scale changes but the tooltips are yet to be added so there might be some changes on how the pets work or add new stuff from the Pet trainer otherwise melee hunters especially wont be able to perform at all against raid bosses since one of their major skill combines your attack with the pet attack.
I'll be giving melee hunter a try, do hate that Flanking strikes isn't on a different slot, wanted to do lone wolf+carve, but guess that would be too strong
@@RatsoMan20 I didnt explain it better, thats on me, meant that getting lone wolf+flanking strikes is pointless cause you have to have a pet. Leg slot needed another non-=pet related melee rune
I think a lot of people are sleeping on meleeweave hunter making a comeback. Everyone meme'd on it in classic even though it was very good and something that put hunters on par with warriors and rogues when done correctly. The 30% dmg increase you can get from Flanking Strike will only make this even more relevant to those who knew how to do it well before. It's the same as Chimera shot being the go-to because of the 125% but in melee 130%. I figure you'd go in Flanking Strike, Raptor Strike, exit melee and auto Chimera to reset your serpent sting, auto, Aimed shot, and run back in to cast your next Flanking Strike, and keep the uptime of your Raptor Strike with the 30% buff. If you're able to use this without the need of a pet as well, Lone Wolf is an extra 25% dmg buff on top. I think it could be a very viable build. This is what I plan to test during the release of SoD. Needless to say, I'm excited to see the meta change up and see what others will come up with as a build not only for hunter but for all classes!
I like that Hunter's are getting a strong buff/aura, but I don't agree with making the Hunter's version of Kings an Aspect. Sucks losing ranged attack power (+ a proc chance to increase ranged attack speed if spec'd) with Aspect of the Hawk. The dungeon or raid is more important so Hunters will be expected to be the Kings aura bitch, especially if you're horde.... which is fine BUT an unnecessary sacrifice imo. I'd rather it be choosing between Kings or Trueshot Aura than count as an Aspect. (And yes i know Trueshot is a talent I'm just saying it makes more sense imo)
"increasing total stats by 10% for all nearby allies, and increasing total stats for the Hunter by an ADDITIONAL 10%". In Sarthe's video he showed that in level 25 pre BiS, from this aspect alone you'd be getting an added 76 ranged AP vs the 35 you'd get from aspect of the hawk. So even with the proc, you're not losing anything.
Multiple hunters have always been very strong but people generally don't stack them. Bring more than 1 and have them all scorpid sting the same targets and the healer can pretty much take a break. Now there's more reason to stack hunters.
Melee Hunter: Beast Mastery, Flanking Strike, Aspect of the Lion. Assuming Pet scaling is in the game… this build is going to be awesome 😱 Beefy raptor strikes, flanking strikes, fighting along side your pet and tossin down immolation traps… yes please
1 gcd ranged trap in pve could also be insane i think the fire traps are spellpower? you might see a spellpower build pop out (may not be meta but useable)
I'm probs guna main hunter for SoD, i think they're guna clap in PvP. And they will solve the issue of nobody wanting hunters by giving them kings now everyone will want a hunter. But sticking lone wolf and Kings on the chest kinda sucks.
Going to roll a hunter for sure. It's going to be the best class to level and grind mobs, hands down. I only hope they will put in the dual talent system from wrath so respeccing is easy.
One thing often neglected is that Hunter's still gain 2 attack power per point of strength, meaning Melee Hunters will benefit more from the massive stat increases from Aspect of the Lion, they also get more buffs like Blessing of Might and Battle Shout.
You might be confused. According to Wowhead Strength increases the amount of your melee attack power, and how much damage you can block with a Shield. Druids, Paladins, Shaman and Warriors gain 2 melee Attack Power per point of Strength. Hunters, Mages, Priests, Rogues and Warlocks gain 1 melee Attack Power per point of strength.
If we can trap in combat then that means that survival with trap talents with lone wolf + explosive trap + carve will massively out damage MM on aoe, enough so that it will gain a huge lead until boss fights. Chimera shot really wasn't that good until you got significant gear and also stings have AP scaling (they barely have any in classic). Nothing is going to out dps BM hunters in early game. Right now in classic, hunters are the top dps by a huge margin in all lowbie dungeons and that is because the of pets. Add in 30% more dmg + carve + klll command and BM hunters will straight up carry in dungeons until at least mid 40s. Level 60 pvp with sniper training and lone wolf, hunters are going 1 shot under geared casters (especially Nelf hunters hidden with shadowmeld)
I really like their choice for a survival melee hunter. In BFA you had probably the peak of survival melee hunter and it was amazing. So much fun to play.
This version of melee hunter we're going to get in SoD is by far better than any of the retail versions, I've always disliked the idea of spamming moongose strike. Having a powerfull main ability that resets with raptor strike and makes so that melee hunter is rewarded for staying in melee by stacking damage and giving your main ability resets is a infinitely better experience, that's for sure.
@@occheatsoft Not really, in retail your main ability had a time window that would penalize you if you had to get away from the target, they inverted that logic in SoD, you main ability has a very long cooldown and a reset mechanism, that gives you flexibility to move if necessary. Also no grenades in the rotation are a big win.
@@brandoncastellano1858 Damage is not the problem here, melee is going to have enough damage as it is. Grenades were a filler for the old traps, a big mistake by blizzard, I'm glad they're gone in SoD.
In fairness, you dont want Hunters encroaching on tank gear too hard. They already want all the gear and I know the pain of playing with a shaman who doesnt know how to gear. "I can equip it, better roll"
Imo aside from pet scaling, they should just add attack power scaling to all spelldmg skills avaiable to classes with melee/tank specs, including abilities like rogue poisons, serpent sting, traps, shocks etc. And make paladin/shaman avaiable to the opposite factions, instead of runes granting their buffs.
No. Just let all hunter abilities scale from attack power. Serpent, arcane, wyvern, immolate end explosive trap do not scale with ap. Adding spellpower will make mend pet also scale and that has proven to be a little too op in the past (throw on some healing gear mend pet gets 100% of all +healing).
melee hunter > spellpower hunter. It has been the dream of hunters since before vanilla was released, because everyone imagined being Rexxar, and tried and failed to make melee work... lol
I feel like you're really missing what SoD is about. It will be heavily PvP focused and BFD will be a breeze. No one is going to care about what class is slightly on top of the meters in PvE, and massive changes is likely to occur during this phase and the following phases so its no point speculating what happens at end-game raiding at 60 at this point. What matters now is how good are the runes, what talents can they get at 25, what abilities do they have at 25 etc.
Aspect of the Lion makes me not want to play hunter on Horde side. You may as well have no other chest rune for group pve content. It will be mandatory, you may as well remove the other ones.
I think you're completely wrong about hunters runes. I think the combination of guaranteeing crits, increased pet damage flat bonus, and kill command are gonna make a deadly combo if even only in pvp and not pve.
On a different note of desired creative stuff. I kind of wish the tanking rogue was inspired more by monks and had to use fist weapons instead, and maybe adjust some of the abilities for more punch/kicking flavor. Or instead of rogue, a priest monk like in Scarlet Monastery to fill in the coveted role of smite priest, so they physically auto attack but its all holy damage (you know what that means) and they gain an ability or two to instantly physically strike, maybe give them a divine hymn or w/e to regen mana/increase their damage/aoe, and weave in instant/.5 sec cast smites/holy fires and holy novas, maybe a little bit of mobility speed boost on power word shield since they'll be a clothie in melee range. Discipline tree of course
Def like that idea I will love to see monks , not like they don't have mop monk u can use their abilities change some number and spell dmg , some spell are not fit but they could with some tunning
Lone Wolf is a trap early game. Pet with Beast Master will outdps any lvl 25 player. Pet scaling is confirmed, Avoidance will be a rune. NE hunters in ashenvale will just shadowmeld and send pet to slay.
Theres not a chance hunters will be fotm, or druids. Would simply be rogue fury ret and feral killers, they will be super chill solo player dps as always.
What do you think of this : 💥8s rotation💥 1) 🟢Range Auto Attack (A.A) + 🟠Explosive Shot 2) 🔵 Raptor Melee A.A (3s cd now) + 🟣 Flanking Strike + 🟥 Traps 3) 🟡Mulit Shot + 🟢Range A.A 4) 🔵 Raptor Melee A.A + 🟣 Flanking Strike (If reset, 20% Chance) 5) Repeat... // (Or Chimera if Explosive doesn't have a scaling to it... but it would be very dumb if Explosive become obsolete... as it's a "new" ability, they should make it scalable form the beginning) --> We can even use Aspect of the Cheetah + 6% from talents --> To quicker our Melee Weaving... because shots are on a 6s, for this 8s rotation. Or maybe not, because You you be too quick for the 3s Raptor Strike? We will see. If pet now scales --> I'd go Beast Mastery Tree + ✴20%crit on Raptor Strike✴. Maybe it would be a better DPS than full Survival. I can't see a better rotation for single target... But [🔴Aimed Shot instead+🟤Chimera Shot] instead of 🟠Explosive Shot could be good for a 11 seconds rotation. But I don't know the real damage of Explosive Shot to calculate the DPS of those 2 different rotations. I don't see a world were you only do Melee. As long as there is Melee Weaving --> It's better to do Weaving.
I think they shouldn't try to make a viable ONLY-Melee hunter. I'm so happy that they are just boosting the Melee Weaving. But i'd hate if they remove the ability to Melee Weaving, to make ONLY-Melee viable. I'm playing hunter BECAUSE of melee Weaving... adding a movement gameplay to your rotation, it's what's missing from many classes :D Because if they make Melee Hunter viable, that would mean that Melee Weaving would do 2 times the damage ---> So they would have to remove the ability to have a range weapon, if they wanted to make a real Melee Hunter. --> And that would just end up the same as a Melee Hunter from Retail ---> Nothing special... no imagination in your rotation, no melee weaving.
