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I know nothing about submarine demolition charges but I do know quite a bit about military explosives. I was a Marine infantryman and went through “Demolition School” as an 0352/51and had lots of practical experience during three combat Deplyments to Iraq. I blew up countless UXO’s and blew open many a door. I am almost positive the blocks of TNT we used were exactly the same dimensions and specifications as demolitions issued in the 40’s. If it isn’t broken the military tends not to fix it because of cost. TNT comes in various weights and dimensions. I believe there were blocks of 1/4 or 1/2 pound that were circular and then there were blocks that were rectangular of various dimensions and weights. They are a cardboard material with metal end caps with a hole (for a blasting cap). Those blocks of TNT (or C4) are worthless on their own. You can’t light a block with a lighter. The explosives will burn but they will not detonate. I once used a block of burning C4 (like a candle) to heat coffee water (you should not do this regularly because the residue from burning is toxic) Military explosives are designed to be very stable and inert on their own. You can shoot them aand hit the material with a hammer and nothing will happen. Back in the 40’s they would have also had the same initiation devices I used (more or less). This consisted of “time fuse” which when you calculate the burn rate from a test piece off the spool you could use do some simple calculations and determine the burn rate (a spool of time fuse has a + or - a few seconds on the burn rate. Once an appropriate length of time fuse is cut (say for a 10 minute delay this length of fuse might be as tall as an average man’s height). The fuse can burn underwater and can’t be extinguished unless the fuse is cut. You would then need a mechanical blasting cap. The cap is the very most dangerous component because unlike military explosives… the cap is very much sensitive to shock and heat. You need a special tool to crimp the cap onto the time fuse. This same tool for crimping on the handle has a pointed end. This is what you push into the TNT or C4 block to make a hole to insert the cap. The cap needs a certain clearance of explosives on all sides to reliably detonate the explosives. On an application such as a scuttling charge they almost certainly had a redundant time delay. TNT is a good choice for this application because it does well with immersion in saltwater or in damp conditions. If you ever get a submariner ask them about the initiation and time delay component. Somewhere on the boat NOT IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO THE EXPLOSIVES they would have stored the caps. The oversized dimensions on the box could have contained the other components (crimping tool and spool of time fuse). Very interesting video. Thank you and keep up the amazing work.
I get that TNT is stable enough to resist unintended explosions by flames, by high or low humidity, high or low temperature, retains its properties even when wet, etc. But a big metal box, even if full of tooling, gives it a lot of space to rattle around. How sensitive would those demo charges be to being thrown around during intense depth charging? Bad enough to worry about external explosives breaking the hull, but to add the thought that your own scuttling charge might do you in would be even worse I’d think.
You are probably right…I was a Torpedoman on a Fast Attack sub and on the demo team ( went to the demo school in Pearl) and we used different charges but your description is spot on for just as you described 👍🏻🤩
@@banedonrunestar5618 lol. I am sorry to laugh but in Iraq I drove around in an LAV-25 which is a 16 ton light armored vehicle. It’s 16 tons but it’s only 3/4 inch of rolled armor plate separating you from the outside world. I saw more than one vehicle that had its “hulled breached” by IED/mine strikes. I hit a mine once that blew the front left wheel off our LAV and did other extensive damage (differentials punctured with shrapnel and A arms ripped off, flattened six of our eight wheels which have run flats etc etc). I also had detonated in close proximity artillery and mortar rounds fused as IED’s and had a 500 lb friendly JDAM dropped in between two vehicles about a 1000 yards distance ( it was a friendly fire incident “blue on blue”… anyway. I carried at one time over 300 pounds of various demolitions. Mostly C4 but a lot of ammonium nitrate in the form of cratering charges and some comp B in hand grenades and such and some TNT in block form along with Bangalore torpedos and shaped charges… all sorts of military demolitions. In an LAV bouncing around in the desert I often feared for my life just from the hatches of the vehicle breaking and crushing me to death or chopping off an arm. A tank or armored vehicle in combat running through ditches and hitting trenches and such or driving at night under the DVR or NVG’s… you wear a helmet… but it is sometimes not enough. We had many casualties throughout my career just from vouching in the hull of a vehicle. ItKs a dangerous dangerous place. Where combat is different than in training is the caps and the explosives are kept in the same vehicle. On Camp Pendleton you would have a seven ton truck filled with thoudsands of pounds of C4 and then following it would be a Hummer with a trailer with a single ammo box… those were the caps. Military explosives truly are inert. Very stable. It takes ALOT of energy to cause a detonation. Instantaneous gas. Fire and blast pressures if intense enough will cause detonation but it takes a lot. I also should mention that I was in a LAV-AT during the initial invasion of IRraq and that vehicle if it ever gets catastrophically killed… it will be a big big bang. It carried in it’s belly many many TOW missiles. lol. You tend to not think about it. If it ever does happen. You’ll never know.
@@stevea9604 I too loved demolitions. It’s like industrial fireworks that you can do real world work with. Part of our demo school involved improvised munitions. Basically how to turn the standard selection of demolitions into “other weapons”. Like a 55 gallon drum of jellied gasoline (napalm) into a giant directional fire bomb. Or a standard ammo can into a claymore directional mine with some pea gravel (or nails or bits of metal, duct tape, and some C4). One of the improvised techniques is a “platter charge”. Ideally you take a slug of steel (like a city manhole cover or any hefty hunk of steel) and put a lot of C4 under it or ideally more of a “pushing explosive” (pushers have lower detonation velocities. TNT is much less than C4 and hence why it’s often associated with moving earth and C4 is quicker and associated with cutting steel) you take the manhole cover and turn it into a gigantic shotgun slug which can disable and catastrophically kill any MBT in the world. So we didn’t have a chunk of steel but we steal our SNCO “donut tire” out of his POV. And we shot that tire and rim into the atmosphere. Literally. It just kept going up until we lost sight of it and we never did see it come down. We got yelled at because we shot something off the range on Camp Pendleton. It landed somewhere bad. Idk exactly but I know the School staff got “talked too”. lol.
In 1941 there was a U-boat that was forced to surface by the British. The u-boat crew abandoned ship and then a British boarding party entered. They were afraid it was about to be scuttled but apparently the charges were not set or just opened the sea cocks. The boarding party was on long enough to recover the Enigma code books that Bletchley Park had been hoping to get their hands on.
Love the new intro...reminds us that the boats were home to brave men. Would be interested in seeing the self destruct timer mechanism if it is still onboard.
I think the new intro is awesome! So cool to see the Cod in action with her crew from the days when she was a fighting boat--it adds a nice sense of living history to the video.
I once talked to a modern day submariner (nuclear) and he said that on his ship there was a way to “scuttle” the boat that didn’t involve explosives. I believe it involved “venting” or opening up the ships nuclear reactor to irradiate all the spaces on the boat. It would kill the crew (eventually) and make the boat unrecoverable. It wasn’t fully explained because I think it was classified. But it was a last resort to prevent the boats capture if all else failed.
@@tomhenry897 I really wish the individual I had the conversation with was more forthcoming. I don’t know if they were pulling my chain (bull S’ing me). I got the sense that they were not. This individual told me they worked in the “nuke” Division. Involved with the nuclear propulsion system in some way. Anyway I initially asked about what this video was about. How to scuttle the boat. It lead into the conversation I mentioned. Something about doing things to the reactor that would render the boat kaput (and crew. I distinctly remember him saying that if there were any crew still onboard they would be killed. And whoever was left to scuttle the boat I assume). They made it seem like it was either classified information that they couldn’t elaborate on or maybe a “non standard” way of ensuring the boat could not be captured. You are correct though. We cut apart Soviet Submarines and raised whole pieces of them for recovery. Just because it is irradiated doesn’t mean you still can’t get at it. There is always a way if you have enough money and time.
I’m more than a little bit skeptical of this concept of scuttle. I don’t have any facts to back this up except that my late father was a nuke operator and I’m certified 😂 nuclear myself, however, I truly believe there is no plan to scuttle a nuke sub because there is no plan to lose it. That’s America.
@@zxggwrt You think that there was a different “America” back when they had these TNT scuttling charges (as shown in this video? Ships are boarded and seized all the time (historically). They have made Hollywood movies about such adventures. I’m not a submariner but I can guarantee you that in a time of war a Captain of any era (including right now) isn’t going to let his ship fall into the enemies hands. The Chinese PLA Navy just recently had a submarine with an entire crew deceased. Depending on what News source you read... some say they were fouled in their own submarine chain and anchor netting/cables trap and while fouled the crew suffocated due to a catastrophic failure of their oxygen generating system. Whatever the cause the entire crew was killed with the boat (I assume) still intact. This had a nuclear reactor onboard which I assume hasn’t melted down and was designed for this eventuality. In war and peace… odd things happen. I think the Chinese know where their ghost boat is though. According to what I read in the News. Back in the day they used the boats own ordinance to help sink it or to keep it from the enemy. Today I assume they still have procedures to scuttle it and it’s got a nuclear reactor onboard. I assume all of this information is Secret. If you’re not a Officer in the engineering Division or the Captain/XO you might not have any idea of how the United States of America plans to deal with a nuclear vessel and scuttling.
@@jastrapper190The nuclear reactor is used to make steam, which could be connected to a turbine generator for electricity. The uranium is a heat source. This is the same way nuclear power plants on land work. Same as coal or natural gas, but doesn't need to be refueled as often. But pulling the control rods out or opening the container would allow the radiation to escape.
You may want to reach out to law enforcement and have the metal boxes swabbed for explosives. I know the TSA and the FBI have quick testing units in which they wipe a cloth swab over an item then place that swab in a detector unit. It will then very quickly analyze the contents on the swab and give you an indication if the item that was swabbed had been in contact with one or more of several explosives. If you can make contact with someone and arrange to swab the metal containers it may help in your quest to determine what they may have been used for.
I would say take the boxes to a crime lab if you are local or semi local to one. Explain what you are trying to determine, and let them swab the boxes for trace explosives residues. Same approach could be made with the TSA office at the closest airport. They could make it a training event for their officers...
@paulfarace9595 definitely don't just show up with them lol. Explain what the organization is and does, and what goals you are trying to achieve in a historical context. Then politely ask for assistance 🙂
Intro was nice, maybe if you add the Submariner's name filming, name of the boat, war patrol, approximate date and location ... That would add interest.
It's all USS Cod 7thvwar patrol. The junior officer with the movie camera is Ensign Johnny Wallace of Estes Park, CO. Passed away at 2 pm on Saturday July 11, 2015. Why we know that is a topic of a future program. 😮
A sealed box makes some sense, but one with that many nuts to remove would not make sense for a scuttling charge. Scuttling might need to take place fairly quickly if the enemy is upon you and taking off a zillion nuts would cause a problem for that... My guess is that these were stowage boxes for spare parts or tooling. Sealed to prevent corrosion maybe? Probably something cobbled by sailors and not issued.
None if that is consistent with the crest of the sub or our knowledge of scuttle procedures. In most US submarine scuttlings there was more than enough time to open 18 -24 wingnuts. Tools are in Immediate opening cabinets.
This video reminds me of Eugene Fluckey's merry band of saboteurs who blew up that rail line in the Sakhalins near the end of the war, or the time Cod's crew used its own demo charge to scuttle O-19.
I qualified on two Balao class boats (Sea Devil & Pomfret) in early 1960's. Sea Devil was in WW II configuration less deck guns; Pomfret was GUPPYed. Each compartment had a "compartment bill holder." One of the bills in each compartment was "Ship's Destruction Bill." Do not recall seeing scuttle charges mentioned in these bills. The charges may have been removed some time after WW II.
Hollywoood’s depiction of dynamite / TNT leads me to conclude there would be straw packing in with the charge to prevent any movement during “shipping”.
Eerie - I recently watched a Silent Service episode on the loss of the Sculpin and wondered how an American Sub was actually scuttled (my thoughts also centered on Boarding Parties). On a similar note, those 55-pd 'firecrackers' wouldn't need to set off a Torpedo - the proximity to the outer plating would ensure a sufficient hull breach against any Boarding Parties... Thank you Gentlemen for preserving History. Respect
Great new intro for your videos. Question 1: I noticed some of the guys on the deck firing the big gun were wearing sandals, was that common on a submarine? Question 2: How long does it take to reload the torpedo's. Movies and video games make it seem like it is a chore to reload. - You want more subscribers, have more consistent video release. Ryan S. and the New Jersey crew release a video every day. I suggest making a bunch of short videos that are in the 3-6 minute range about the COD for daily or every other day release. Thanks for keeping history alive.
Yes sandals were very common aboard subs. Reloading fish wasn't too hard, We've played st it to a lesser degree. With a few trained men and the right equipment a tube is reloaded in about five to 10 minutes depending. We try to put up a 5-10 minute program every Wednesday (we're still working out the rules) ... and shorts are not our thing presently. We're never going to match BBNJ in terms of subscriber base size, nor do we want to. Remember we have other jobs at Cod😅... we do want to document, share, and explain submarine history and restoration and dispel the myths and misunderstood facts about WWII fleet sub history. R
Paul has a big heart! He takes in men wanted by the law and allows them to work for free! 😅 In all seriousness, the mention of a historic film archive peaked my interest. How about sharing them here on youtube with your commentary to whats going on? In modern youtube speak: "A submarine memorial president reacts to..." but less trivial and with historic value! 😊
🙄Big heart? 🤔Sounds like a prison. Came over from battleship New Jersey's recommendation. I subscribed. Watched a few videos. Very Interesting and a great new opening...but the way he treats his crew is demeaning...and he made you laugh. Well Paul, good luck with that subscription count. You lost mine.
USS COD- you should set up an online ship store. The Battleship USS New Jersey Museum and Memorial has a online ship store - allowing for them rise money to help with the restoration of this famous battleship
Someday perhaps but we're not big players like BBNJ ... based on previous sales and eBay it's not that big of a demand. I'd be fulfilling the orders. 😅
Nice job on the video, and idea for a video, How they carried diesel fuel in the trim tank with salt water and how they use it with out pumping salt water to the engines?
You need a detonator to set off the scuttling charge. I'm not sure how they would set off the detonator if the charge is in a sealed container with no outside opening.
I'm sure they didn't store the detonator(s) inside the box. Somewhere else in the boat there was probably a smaller box with several detonators and timer-igniter devices.
Bring the smaller metal box aft from the forward TP room and I'll bet it fits perfectly into you aft TP room bracket. The wooden box looks a little short to be fully secured with the missing flat iron top strap.
The small heavy steel box in the FTR is far too short for the bracket in the ATR. But remember we have no idea whether or not the missing top strap has a block of wood to hold down the box! Or it probably didn't matter if there was a one-inch gap. It's not like the sub was making snap movements.
Question?: Where is the timer? and wiring from the timer to the forward and aft torpedo rooms that would allow someone to initiate the timer and still escape the boat before the scuttling charges go off?
Depends on the time period. In WWII they strung detonator wires from a timer device in the control room ... in the post war era a hardwire system was supposedly installed. We're looking for it now.
@@paulfarace9595 I'd guess that the charge would be in close proximity to wherever the charge would be stored, which should be close to there it should be placed, so finding the wires likely will show where the charge was stored.
Nope! The documents make no mention beyond the mk. 2 charge. They kept things simple in those days so one charge for the three locations was most likely. An Army explosives expert has posted on this thread who said the total 55-lb charge might have been subdivided into smaller cells.
Yes un the forward torpedo room for sure and possibly the pump room (exact location there as yet unknown), but the after torpedo room obviously held the wood box. But since it's two feet above the deck it's not likely to be flooded.
Is there a hole in the lid of the smaller box. Can't tell if it's a hole of spot of dirt. If it's a hole a pull friction cord could be used to ignite the fuse???
I'm not an expert, but I will hypothesize that neither of those boxes were meant for a dynamite charge. While you don't need the explosives everyday, they are something you would want quickly when the time comes. One latch and lock like an ammo box would seem to make more sense. Secondly - dynamite degrades, especially in high heat and humidity environments. (Its basically nitroglycerin mixed with kitty litter and the liquid explosive can separate from the binder) So it seems like something you would want to check on with some regularity. If I had to guess what those boxes are for - spare torpedo parts comes to mind. Things like gyroscopes, pneumatic bits, or possibly spare influence detonators. Things that should be kept dirt free, don't need to be replaced often, and are secret enough you wouldn't advertise what they are to anyone looking at a glance - hence no labels on the container.
Well I do not know, I do not think they would’ve placed 55 pounds of TNT in a wooden box in a compartment where fires could occur. It seems that it would be more of a shipping container until it got to the metal box
Well they thought nothing of placing 10 torpedo warheads each cintaining 600 lbs of explosives in close proximity to each other in that same fire 🔥 probe environment!!! As we know only too we'll aboard USS Cod 😮!
@paulfarace9595 thanks Paul. It seems like if you are in a situation that justfies self destruction the many fasteners on the metal boxes would be too fussy and time-consuming. Even with hand tightened wing nuts. But then I am imagining a panic in progress. Even scrambling under the deck for access might easily be difficult. Thank you again, sir. Really appreciate the insight in the videos. The 'lived in' staging is not just a nice touch, I think it is important for understanding and interpretation for context.
So...the demo charge is placed to provide the pricing challenge for the torpedo. If the crew had escaped into the water, what would protect the crew in the water from the shock wave that followed? How far would the crew need to be to avoid being killed or seriously injured by the shock wave?
This is what I was thinking. I was a torpedoman on 637 class boats and our exploder and pyro lockers were designed like this, but were permanently mounted and floodable. Maybe smallarms ammo storage?
Wow, the into is absolutely fantastic! I don't think it's too long at all, as a couple have mentioned.🤷♂️ This is my new favorite episode, I didn't realize that scuttling explosives for were kept on board submarines. I guess I assumed they just turned some valves or something in order to flood the boat. 🤔🤦♂️😅 Seems like storing the TNT in a hard to access container would be too time consuming in an emergency.🤷♂️
Actual submarine scuttlings fall into two scenarios -- one where you have deep water under the keel so you smash the gear and flood her to sink. But the second and most common scenario involves hitting a reef wherever can't sink the sub. Thatbhappened st least three times to Allied subs in WWII, two US subs and one Dutch submarine -- which we were involved in! On all cases there was plenty of time to open 18 wingnuts.
The intro while interesting is too long for a regular intro. After I see it once or twice I'll just fast forward through it. Make it short & simple like Battleship NJ RU-vid
@@paulfarace9595 But there are a lot of veterans that served on the GUPPY conversions still around who might know about this. And the purpose of any of those brackets in the torpedo rooms would be just the kind of trivia question that is so common.
The scuttling charge had to be sufficient to blow the ship apart on their own. If the boat shot all their torpedoes, they torpedoes would not add to the fireworks. Also, the scuttling charge in the control/pump room does not have additional explosives around it. I like the new opening video, but it seems a bit too long. Need to cut it down to 15 seconds. Reduce the amount of time in the beginning showing the wake and the time at tie end with the person making a movie. would help.
I don't like the new intro. I'd rather get right into the action. RU-vid videos don't need that kind of branding up front to be seen as high-quality content. It's a holdover from TV programs, which had to tell you what you were watching and provide a buffer for people who tuned in late. In 2023, an intro is just a waste of time.
Your comments have a level of merit (yes this isn't NBC Wide World of Sports)... but since viewers are able to pull the timeline forward to either skip or rewatch segments we'll keep the intro. I'm interested in knowing your age... they say we boomers had attention spans cut to 30-min TV show lengths, Gen X had two minute attention span that coincided with commercial breaks, and now we have the Tick-Tock generation.
I love the new intro. I love seeing the videos of these subs in their element and on patrol at speed. I can hear the roar of the diesel’s. Great addition to the channel Great thought about putting the charge next to the torpedo, but what if you have no torpedoes? Something’s missing, but your getting closer.
@@garyhock2043even without a torpedo to add to the pyrotechnics a 55-pouund TNT charis going to make one hell of a mess in the torpedo room, rendering all the sensitive gear useless.
