These findings suggest that we are quite far from defeating Varroa. It makes you either give up apiculture, or, dive even deeper into it. I will choose the latter. Good episode Humberto, and thank you.
I've been a beekeeper since the 1980's and have followed the work of the U.S.D.A. together with commercial beekeepers to breed a hygienic bee after the disastrous introduction of Varroa. After many years that work produced the "Hygienic Italians" that a few commercial queen breeders maintain today. I've been using queens of that line from a breeder in California for a decade. I never treat my hives with chemicals and I don't see Varroa mites on my bees. The infested pupae are removed from their cells and dumped off the landing board. And I've never witnessed deformed wing, foulbrood, or any other malady since changing solely to that hygienic line. As far as disease, my bee yard is healthier than before the introduction of mites when I kept the old style Italians. The only negative today is that I on average lose one hive out of five over the course of winter; and in the old days we might have lost one for every ten hives. I suspect that the Neonicotinoid pesticides are creating a great burden on our colonies. And research indicates the health of honeybee queens is badly affected by those pesticides.
@@MinnesotaBeekeeper You can't see numbers but you can see mites on bees and also the anecdotal evidence. My experience is solely with old style Italians and later Hygienic Italians. Varroa mites are quite large and they are easily visible on the thorax of worker bees. And before I switched to the Hygienics it was very common to see mites during inspections. However, I simply don't see any mites on the Hygienics. Also, it was a rude awakening once Varroa reached my colonies in the early 90's. My bee yard was decimated that first year. Thereafter, treatments with chemicals was the only way to cut down on colony losses. But I've never used mite treatments with the Hygienics. And considering the absence of disease such as foul brood, which was a reoccurring problem with the old style Italians, I'd say there's never been a better time to be a beekeeper.
@@mikerevendale4810 You must live in an isolated place from varroa. In my area ,no hygienic behaviour could save your bees from Varroa. Hygienic italians ? Here we have much more hygienic bees and even the toughest ( the small cell bees) cant survive more than 3 years without treatment.
@@mihaiilie8808 Varroa is everywhere here. And I've witnessed local beekeepers struggle to keep colonies alive, especially over the winter months. Buckfast, Minnesota Hygienics, Russians all do poorly here even with treatments(I don't have any firsthand information about Carnolians though). I personally know one beekeeper who routinely loses 50-70% of his colonies during the winter months. And despite my testimony about the hardiness of Hygienic Italians he seems content to go his own way. One thing I've discovered during my long life is that when you find something that works particularly well... stick with it.
I would like to see a non- hygienic hive with the green pupae to see how the virus spreads by comparison. This will make the only variable being the hygienic behavior.
With the information in the video the case the hygienic bees spread DWV BETTER than mites was not made. It only proved the virus spread in the absence of mites. Perhaps the case was made in the paper.
Great point. I am basing myself on the concept of social gut of the honey bee colony superorganism which tells us about the homogenization of the gut content among bees throughout trophallaxis. But you are right. There was no further measurements, even in the article. Thanks for pointing this out.
I think the logic of this video is a little skewed. Varroa mites transfer viruses and parasites to bees when they're in the hive, including deformed wing virus. This happens whether or not pupal cannibalism is common or not. Workers handle dead or dying pupae regularly, even in hives not bred for hygienic behavior. The monograph you linked above does not compare "hygienic" strains to other germ-lines - in fact, their only conclusion is that handling of infected pupae, especially ingestion, contributes to virus spread within a hive. Since all honeybees will engage in some form of hygienic behavior, regardless of their ancestry - this video seems likely to generate a lot of paranoia, especially in new beekeepers. Like N. apis and ceranae, DWV will always be present in your hive in some sense. The virus is in free variation in all North American populations. The only defense is proper nutrition and clean, well-maintained equipment to support your bees' natural immune function - regardless of whether your strain is "hygienic" or not.
Makes you think a bit. And a bit further…the act of catabolism is a natural behaviour of bees during times of sudden death. It’s a survival mechanism. After these times we will see disease express itself. Is it due to the stress itself or is it due to the act of super spreading of diseased bees? There is an old saying “sometimes things get worst before they get better”,
Hello Ian, cannibalism very likely is involved on nutrition recycling and perhaps other immune functions we might not be aware of. Everything that happen in a hive has a good reasons to happen but with things changing all the time, something normally good might become bad. In this case, recycling in the middle of a pandemic (varroa mites and all viruses involved) might be something the bees were not counting on before. In the past natural selection might have selected this trait for a good reason but it might not be working the same way now. Lot's of speculations from my part now, but the tests done in the laboratory clearly show the transmission and we beekeepers and researchers must definitely bee looking at this new things popping up all the time. Maybe we should keep selecting hygienic behaviors that do not include cannibalism. Can we do that? I don't know. Let me know if I answered you question. Cheers and keep the good work there.
So, as humans, this kind of exposure provides us with antibodies to combat the infection. Is this the same with bees or do they not use antibodies because they don’t have blood
As humans yes in some aspects. Luckily we learned a lot about our own immune system to be able to simulate the infection generating the antibodies we need without the need to suffer the consequences of an real infection, vaccines. Vaccines are the best discovered ever. Vaccines are coming for honey bees as well and I made two videos about it already. Bee immune system is different than humans. First of all we don't know much. Second, from what we know it lacks antibodies production system, meaning that bees can't develop memory the same way we know in mammals. However, there is evidence showing that bees can be better protected the second and third generation after the first generation of bee sgot exposed to a bacterial or viral infection. We researchers and beekeepers have a lot of work to do in front of us. Thanks for stopping by. Cheers
This is very interesting and helpful. I have Hygienic. Yet, I don't see it as the problem here. I say that because my other hives that are not hygienic, and learning about bees knowing that even without Hygienic behavior in hives, bees still randomly uncap and pull out sick or dead bees. And they most always cannibalize them. Its a lot less, a lot, but is still happens. But I am open minded enough to take this into consideration and am grateful for this info.
I have tried a test with varora mites infected colonies and got success 100% no varora mites in my hive. I'll make a video about that how to control and wipe varora mites, with a two easiest way.
Things are always more complicated than it seems. This might not be true for other viruses. Selection stilla powerful tool, but I thought it would a good idea to bring facts like that to everybody so we can think about together. Cheers
How harmful is DWV in adult bees? In one of the previous videos you've explained, that the bee's gut system is quite a strong barrier for the DWV. Those infected bees from the end of the chain (pupa -> cleaner -> other bee), can they then infect the larvae?
Hello Michalowe, yes It is harder for a virus to infect bees using the fecal oral route as I explained before. However, keep in mind that this is in general and each viruses have their own evolutionary strategy. Also, the cannibalism infection route is dealing with a virus that came from a mite infestation and as I also mentioned before, this viruses are injected directly into the hemolymph crossing the gut barried and in doing so they can change a lot because they are RNA viruses. Good observation. Thanks for stopping by.
I am a 10 year hobby beekeeper in the Northeast USA where we get extreme cold weather from the Arctic vortex sometimes. I lost a hive that way one year because the bee population was low going into winter for that hive. In the early spring I witnessed bees going into that hive from other hives, so I opened the hive to see what was going on. There were a few dozen capped cells that the robbing bees were opening and I witnessed these robber bees pulling dead pupa out and eating them. I had never seen that before and learned something new. I gave the other hives protein patties after seeing that. I did not have any virus problems in any other hives that season, but I am grateful for your information you divulged in this video. Obbligato sir.
Thank you Humberto! How many colonies do you typically manage? We have 11-12 months of brood where I live so a Varroa wash is performed each month for each colony. Beekeeping is a fascinating hobby, and it helps that they have an endearing quality to them.
I don't have any colony right now. No time to take care of my own operation when I am helping taking care of several other operations. I am planning to have a couple for teaching purposes in the near future. Let's see.
This research is fascinating and certainly has important implications for honey bee selective breeding programs. I am particularly interested in the diversification of the deformed wing virus lineage in recent years. This research makes me wonder if such highly hygienic VSH lines might be playing an important role in this viral diversification. Just as so many people receiving the Covid vaccination has indirectly favored the increased prevalence of more transmissible variants, I wonder if hygienic colonies may have indirectly selected for more virulent strains that have increased transmission between individual honeybees since Varroa mites are less successful at transmuting it to them? I also wonder about Intraviral conflicts. In other words is there some sort of competitive exclusion occurring among DWV strains? Does one strain somehow decrease the prevalence or survival of others? And what role are various subpopulations of honey bees playing in the evolution of these variants? Finally Humberto, do you know which particular strain of DWV virus was used in the study?
I love my community. It makes me very happen to see people thinking about the problem together and bringing challenging questions to the table. I don't know if there is any study comparing VSH bees and the different types of DWV circulating around. I will take a look and ask around. Intraviral conflicts is a topic that I like very much but unfortunately we don't have much data on this for honey bee viruses. I know for a fact that IAPV replication inhibit DWV replication. I still researching this. Stay tuned. I don't remember which strain it was used to generate the backbone for the genetically modified DWV. I can ask the author if it is not in the paper. Thanks for stopping by.
This is very interesting. I've had many colonies that were struggling along, so, I treated for mites (multiple times). Yet, I would STILL find bees emerging a month later with DWV.
So does the DWV spread more via cannibalism and trophyllaxis compared to mites? That's key information. Also what's the rate of actual wing deformities in these bee-to-bee transmissions?
This video shows an alternative spread pathway that was not demonstrated before. It was logical to think about the transmission via cannibalism but it was never proved. Now it was and I just point out the consequences of that. A lot we don't know. Bees might transmit better but bees are also more resistant to virus infection coming from food.
Since the publication from Jay Evans, I've wondered if the queen breeders and producers should change their ads. Instead of "We select for Hygienic Behavior", to "We select for enhanced horizontal viral transfer" . Have beekeepers, scientists, and the industry made a big mistake promoting this selection process? If so, WHO will finally stand up and make the big announcement? Anyone?
My goal is stimulate debate. This is what I can do. It is an interesting issue and also a complicated one. Breeding programs might need to be more selective I guess. Hygienic behavior that exclude cannibalization if possible. The Beltsville lab is doing very good body or work but I have to say that the USDA are not very good promoting it, so I am taking the liberty to help a little. Thanks for your thoughts and let me know if I can be useful.
In biology, it is rarely an all or nothing situation. There will always be many players (& opposing selective pressures) in complex ecological systems! Plus there are multiple benefits to hygienic behavior beyond just Varroa. So don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. There will always be an interplay among the different viruses and even viral strains within a particular virus. When biological systems are left to their own, overtime it often results in an evolutionary equilibrium. In those situations, pathogens tend to become less virulent over time reaching a level that is less detrimental to the host but still allows the pathogen to persist. Similarly, hygienic behavior used on mites may also eventually evolve to become less of a problem with regards to Varroa vectored viruses - especially as the viruses themselves evolve. I, for one, am a big fan of hygienic behavior!
Wow! That's really something to think about. I just don't know what to do these days. The bees just seem to hate the treatments we use too and I feel sorry for them.
@@InsideTheHiveTV- And this is no easy task. A lot of info coming in, sometimes in conflict with other studies. I think, as you quite frequently mention, it is important to test, experiment, and observe. I believe that is a very important tool and a good attitude in beekeeping.
Bit still you didn’t adress the main question, how much infestation is spread during canibalisation vs a sick bee hatching. Pretty sure that a sick bee will cause more infestation compared to being canibalizisation
@@InsideTheHiveTV Well a sick bee will feed all larvae with pathogenes ans possibly spread them via bee/bee contact. All my hives that express high hygienic threads are overall way more healthy compared to non hygienic hives.
Very interesting bit of information. I have been planning on expanding my bee keeping colonies this year so this is something to think about. I most definitely will be following your channel. #LewisFamilyFarms
It’s reported that in an apiary with VSH queens just moving a VSH queen into a hive with DWV resolves the issue in a few weeks. Any thoughts on this report.
ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-6HOyEs52x6c.html dr Waggoner was or is a guest speaker of yours. This is about the Ubee hygienic test she has developed and now commercial. This video is a Cory Stephen’s production. The link is half way through sorry just can’t get it to beginning!
My hives get loads of propolis I know of 5 abandond hives that remained of 20 or so that had an afb out brake these hives were vigourus and had been breeding with feral bees that are common in australian bushland i burnt most of the equipment left but did not destroy the remaining hives they are still going well. Maybe the availability of certain plants is important for propolis. I like it as it preserves woodwork and seels the cracks in the hive and smells beutifull improving the honey ,(my belief)
There are much easyer solutions if you want 100% mite kill . Thermal kills the queen. The queen its the most sensitive to heat and when bees kill an old queen they ,,roast,,her.
@@danhardin7243 I have a much better solution for 100% mite kill and its less work than thermal thogh is still a lot of work and suitable only for small backyard beekeepers. I studyed thermal treatment when i build my beehives wich are small in size ( Delon beehives- you probably never seen one as they are rare). So because i have small size beehives i wanted to make a cover from extruded stirofoam with a small PC fan that circulates the heat from a 300 watts bulb( use only bulbs because of their low thermal mass).Smaller hives ,easy to carry near the power socket ,less volume to heat,etc. The queen dies so you will have to separate her first ,bees are verry cruel stressed and they are fanning like crazy. The bigger an insect is,the less tolerant to heat is.Queen is bigger and more sensitive. Bees also ,,roast,, larger insects like the giant japanese hornets,dead head moth,etc. I dont have bees right now but il get somme next year.
I still thinking selection is an important tool but what I brought here is a fact that beekeepers didn't count before. Maybe we should find ways to select bees for hygienic behaviour that do not include cannibalism. Thoughts?
@@InsideTheHiveTV I believe that cannibalism is connected with lack of pollen quality and generally with starvation.Beekeepers should consider that fact more seriously before thinking about anything else.Hungry bees means cannibalism. I am sure that many beekepees notice the fact that hive without honey have angry bees.
@@InsideTheHiveTV ive already identified the hives with said desires traits so now they just need to survive my winter in Massachusetts then i can start mass producing queens from them next june. i also believe in russian bees.
@@InsideTheHiveTV another factor that could cause hygienic behavior to kill a colony is the hygienic behavior being too efficient and the bees more brood than the queen can lay. the efficiency can be so good that the bees remove brood that doesn't even have a problem or mites even.
That sounds great Mike... But the extreme polyandry of honeybees makes that something difficult to maintain unless you have isolation... and this is especially true for viruses have been shown to be sexually transmitted. The dynamics are always changing! I have some empirical data from my own western Massachusetts apiary supporting this fact!
Fred Dunn said u hav good info,,YOU DO,,hygenic is what i do in my hydroponic system to keep mold,,mites an aphids under control with ZERO as the number,,u make a lot of sense,,i look at the inside of a hive like a kitchen,,CLEAN,,,,,,I WILL BEE WATCHIN UR VIDZ
Frederick Dunn is a great guy that I like very much. I am glad we have him delivering such good content about bees as well. Hygienic behaviour is a complicate subject and I am glad I got people's attention. Move video coming about this.
Precisely. We use to have certain industries run strictly as non profit. The 90's changed all that. Now corporations that work in history changing technology are for profit.
Well, I think this proves a couple of things. One is that too much of any one thing is not always a good thing and second, finding the perfect balance of the good trays might be the answer. We just don’t know as much as we think or would like.
Making, pressing the need for beehive interiors that encourage the workers to line with propolis. During times of plentiful resources my bees seem to drag out the entire pupa intact. Which I think may have been one of Ian's points?
