I'm loving all of the Ioniq 5 content lately. It's very rare to see your current daily driver vehicle torn down and get some expert opinions on how it was made. So far everything I've seen gives me confidence that I made the right choice for my first EV.
I am secretly hoping that these EVs last longer than gas cars. Some Tesla M3s are hitting 300k miles. These are too new. My brother had a Rabbit GTI back in the day. The Ionic 5 reminds me of that, only much newer, and has all the stuff I love about EVs.
The Ioniq 5 has very poor battery cooling/heating. The difference between the lowest and highest temperature can be 10° C, which means that the car often rapid- and coldgates, sometimes in the same charging session.
When you hear the bells ringing, it is (usually) time for the unique Munro spinach break, mandatory for each employee. Sandy decided, that this saves costs vs. using a crane or a six million dollar man or a bionic woman. 😉
Edge cooling pouch cells was cutting edge in 2015, glad to see it finally made it to production. You get the most efficient heat transfer by going in plane to the electrodes vs. through the stack to another fin and down to the cold plate.
@@Stefan_Dahn That does seem a significant variation. What are other battery designs getting? This battery does charge very fast so one would expect a correspondingly higher cooling load and thus a higher temp differential for a given cooling capability. A higher differential is not necessarily bad so log as all cells are kept within reasonable wear levels. The devil is in the details here. perfectly consistent temps would be nice but you never get that in real-world cooling systems, so the question is 'is it good _enough_?'. Where I guess 'good enough' means >80% capacity after a decade. The car comes with an 8-year 100,000 mile battery warranty, so they are expecting at least 500 charges to produce less than 30% degredation.
Those circuit boards in the modules are simple breakout boards and the components on them are fuses (it's even labeled on the board). All the things lucid had on the module circuit board are external to this module.
Great video. Loved that the old man, tesla fanboy, wasn't there. Any video he's in is purely propaganda for musk/tesla. Really enjoyed good neutral comparisons between all the ev platforms. Thanks again for the great video.
What we want in a teardown is critical analysis. Staff do not have the authority to criticize potential customers. Owners do. Hence why the failure of the old design Hyundai pack is not mentioned. It has high temperature delta between cells which results in charge throttling and potential cell failure, as demonstrated by Nyland. Tesla does not.
We had a car that was written off (totalled) due to a small scrape to the cooling plate, causing the coolant to escape. Repaired it with JB Weld and retitled it.
Great informative video, thanks. That SMC (unsaturated polyester) bottom "shield" for the high voltage battery pack sure looks vulnerable to impact damage from debris on the road. Shouldn't Hyundai/Kia/Genesis use more substantial material for the shield to help prevent impact damage to the battery pack assembly including the battery cooling system (i.e. cold plate)?
There's two recent cases in Canada where (what appears to be) minor damage to the shield voided the battery warranty. The cars needed a $50k replacement battery!
I would hope the smc? cover would be a little bit harder. Over here if there are any dents in the battery back if will fail yearly inspection and the battery back must be replaced. I just wish the battery packs would be better protected from outside forces.
it have the cooling plate then the thermal paste THEN is the actual battery cells. But yeah if you decide to off-road/skid off on some large rocks. You will need some battery work. And looking how it is assembled you will need a whole new battery. Once the cooling plate is damaged no one will be reapplying the cooling paste just to save you a few thousand bucks when they can overcharge you for everything :D
@@qa1e2r4 There is a post in these comments about someone getting a new paste+cooling panel+cover fitted (due to damage to the bottom of the pack). So it is happening.
That internal welding looks to me to be more likely spoolgun rather than tig. Though I've done lots of welding, I'm by no means an industrial expert (I know only what I know and not far out of my experience). I'd be interested in what you think.
Would the thermal interface material have an added benefit of reducing shock by providing some cushioning the the battery packs? As well as reducing noise.
Love these videos but would have liked to see them build out a section or two to see how all the parts assemble. Also it’s a shame that even though the pack is meant to be serviced you can’t apparently do anything in the event of damage but replace it all. Doesn’t make the effort of modular design worthwhile.
We have a Prius V and are very happy with it . We have been looking at the Electrified G80 to replace our other ice car, after seeing the stories about MINOR pan damage totaling the car...NO WAY, NO HOW!!! The newest Prius is looking better every day. I was looking for a bit more room and comfort, but I can do without the super-premium insurance costs.
the launch models of the I5 had a solar roof for charging - would be interested to see how this was implemented without having to close the contactors - I'd imagine a seperate low-current feed into the pack with diodes for isolation - did you see any signs of this ? Would also be interested to see details of how they do 400V charging, and what power they can do this - ISTR reading they use the motor as part of the converter, like the Renault Zoe did for high power AC charging. Also the AC inverter for V2x - is this part of the onboard charger ? Hopefully you'll be diving into these boxes soon...!
I'm sure any external power was routed through the OBC or inverter just to prevent over-charge. I'll make sure to bring this up in the discussions to make sure its addressed in the videos. Thanks for the input Mike.
@@BatterVswithAntonio But if solar was routed through the OBC or inverter, it would have to close the pack contactor, and the contactor coil current to do that would eat into any gain from the solar panels. As solar would be pretty low power, and nowhere near the 800V pack voltage, I'd think the best way to do it would be to feed it into the pack housing, where a boost circuit would convert it up to 800v, protected from overcharge by a simple overvoltage cutout and diodes to prevent backfeeding.
@@coreyverisario6570 re: "Probably just charges 12v batt. To run stereo, HVAC fan maybe. Things like that." yeah, it was just a fancy maintainer (ref: Battery Tender) for the 12V, which indeed benefits the HV battery albeit indirectly by way of the DC to DC converter not having to turn on. people still don't seem to process how there's just not enough surface area and not enough output to bother with the complexity of integrating it to the HV system to begin with, and even then the output that it DOES produce is dependent on weather, time of day, etc. yeah, all the same variables that impact Renewables on a large scale also impact small scale Renewables placed on the tiny roof of a vehicle. this reality combined with the COST (God forbid we forget about that) is why the Solar Roof was only offered on the limited run Launch edition, very similar to the other Hyundai products that got Solar Roofs. it's purely a "sales gimmick" and not meant to be anything more, and that's fine as all the Manufactures offer a "gimmick" in one form or another to make a "green statement" and entice consumers to buy their vehicles over the competition, naturally some features are more "gimmicky" than others.
In regard to the Battery pack design to be service friendly when you’re building a product to break more often to create service work, then you build it to service friendly, If you’re building a component to last lifetime of the vehicles you don’t need to build it to be service friendly.
Its probably more to do with internal company politics. Traditional OEMs make most of their profits on selling parts to their licensed repair shops. So the ethos of repairability is more about making sure there are parts that *can be* repaired than making parts designed to fail. Tesla has shown that they arnt so much interested in repairing parts even when its obviously a faulty part from the factory. Its highly questionable whether that is something to hand out accolades for. And there is no such thing as designing parts that never need repair. ANYTHING can be broken and there seem to be some members of the general public who are out there trying to prove it.
@@markplott4820 they are holding up pretty well, with little degradation over 200k miles - but unfortunately once you scrap the car there is little you can salvage
I've seen the batteries are super expensive, replacement Ioniq5 batteries from Hyundai cost around $60,000 just for the pack, not including labor. One guy he paid $55,000 for the car and hit something on the highway that damaged the safety cover and Hyundai wanted $61,000 to replace the battery pack, his insurance company totalled the car even though the body was untouched by the item he ran over.
This guy is all CAP. It’s $30,000 USD. I looked it up. It was not Hyundai corporate that charged $60,000 CAD. It was the greedy Hyundai dealer and incompetent insurance adjuster.
Also the damage was caused by the driver so the battery was not covered by warranty. It wasn’t only the battery cover that was damaged but also the battery cooling system, so it couldn’t be repaired by the dealer.
@@JohnLee-db9zt - According to the report he hit something at night in the dark laying in the road that probably fell from another vehicle.. NOT his fault.
The thermal heat transfer system explains why the delta between coolant inlet and outlet is much higher for these vehicles compared to Tesla's coolant system.
The serviceability is never mentioned in these videos. While the perimeter injection molded gasket is more expensive, it is far more preferable than gluing it down. Reducing fastener count might save money that isn’t passed down to the customer, but in todays world phones and laptops that are just a glued brick inhibit right to repair, increase waste and environmental costs, and are generally viewed as inferior by knowledgeable consumers.
I for one will lease the Ioniq 5 over a Tesla. The 800 volt charging and easier access for battery maintenance seems to be a no brainer. Now that the 2025 can also charge on NACS without an adapter, just seems to me to be another win. Also when the Georgia plant comes online, the $7,500 rebate will kick in on sales of the Ioniq. I think there are a lot of trolls and ICE advocates commenting here, which saddens me. The US is already lagging the rest of the world in EV acquisition… as stubborn and divided as the US is, EVs are the future.
Tens of thousands of those are sitting in medical scrap facilities waiting to be broken down for scrap metal and the landfill. They probably rescued some of them and gave them a second life.
21:30. These fusable link I guess are to protect LV modules short circuit, however these are in serie anyway so all the HV could come across these fuse somehow. So why these are not glass or sand or ceramic surrounded to not have a plasma event? Normally fusable link are on each cells in parallel so this protect for 3.7V maximum, however these big fusable link are at the HV level !
I'm not the expert, but arent most of those aluminum welds MIG, not TIG? They look like MIG welds to me on the pack assembly? Can you point out where they were doing manual TIG welding?
I'm not an expert either, but I'm quite certain most, if not all, the welding in that extruded aluminum structure is robotic MIG welding. The start locations for similar weldments are very consistent, and in places they wouldn't typically be. Starting off the joint ensuring arc is properly established perhaps. This can be seen along the length of the structure around each of the perimeter tubes, internally where part of the weld bead creeps up the "rib" extrusions on either side, and at the box tubes at the coolant inlet side. But like all processes, there are sure to be QA verifications and manual touch-up of areas that need it. So not every weld may look, or be applied, the same.
@@peeweedan9 The welds except the friction welds look horrible, my guess is that they are manual welds. one weld even does not connect the parts properly over half of its length. No idea who let that casing pass quality control.
Great explained battery pack really appreciate your helpful information. I am also working in battery technology last couple of year and had 15 years in power train casting design for product cost and performance enhance. Munro is doing really wonderful job.
As ever this was great, but I'd have liked a little more time on the module construction. I didn't fully understand what was meant by the Z-fold and pancake construction flavours, nor how the tabs are connected to the end pieces. I like this design though - it seems quite space and weight efficient, yet still fettlable. And keeping the coolant separate seems very neat. Maybe they can iterate down to 1-2mm of goop over time and some some weight and money.
@@polska905 I don't know if it is even a smart thing to do greedily. It results in no additional sales because it's not worth replacing the battery, and who would want to buy a car that cant take a small bump to the bottom without being totaled.
I can see why damage to the pan causes such issues now, not a good design on an SUV that has the chance for large rocks. that air gap isn't going to be enough from what I have seen customers do.
Yes, this seems like an omission. Just 10mm of foam in there would make battery warming dramatially more efficient. maybe there is enough self-heating in use for it not to really matter? But for things like camping mode overnight we'd really appreciate some insulation.
Is there anything known about how many Charging cycles such a LiPo Based Pack can have? For LFP it is 3000+ cycles, for NMC it ist 1600-2000+ cycles, for LIPO batteries I have 500 in mind but that would mean, from my calculating perspective, that those battery packs are a bit short lived in comparison.
As a prior technician, I feel that mechanics pay rates should be increased significantly... I gave up due to low pay rate and the terrible flat rate system. I wouldn't touch one of these vehicles for the for less than $28.00 an hour. You are talking voltages that electricians deal with.. And you know what they get paid a hell of a lot more and only have to deal with the knowledge of one trade, electricity! Call your Delegates and Shop Stewards
It seems a bit obvious to me that it would be better if the battery was engineered so that the cold plate was on top of the battery pack seems a bit vunerable underneath like that ... also a aluminium protection cover rather than GRP would be better, would probably add a bit to production costs but not too much...it's shame realy as the inside of the pack looks well engineered .
25:46 Are there resistors on the other side of the pcb? It looks to be just some fuses and connections for the individual cells. Balancing is probably done elsewhere?
By hand tig welding? Damn near bespoke right? Service and scalability? Sandy's Law comes to mind (paraphrasing).. You can make em reliable or repairable, but not both.
And to think that little pack will cost you over 50+k to replace if you scrape it.... Strong pass. Looked at a Ford Mach-E since battery replacement is modular at only $6-8k per module.. that have to be replaced every 3-6 years per Ford. Seems that you have to be a rich you tuber to afford one of these new electric vehicles. Good idea but we will see thousands of these in the crushers in a decade as insurance writes them off.
Yeah.. It took 6 1/2 minutes to see why Hyundai can't charge fast when its really warm or cold. It can't heat, cool and control the battery temperature. I wonder how the state of the battery will be with a owner that do a lot of fast charging. Hyundai charge 10-80% at roughly C2.1, Tesla 3/Y at roughly C1.5, with a better heating cooling system. What do you Munro guys think about that?
Btw. Hyundai can charge at 235KW. Battery is 77KW. Thats impressive 3C. That must be cooled good. In summer had no limitations so far even with air condition on during charging.
Hyundai performs ZERO maintenance, inspections, or repairs on the battery pack, any scratch results in the vehicle being totaled. So much for the modular design,..
From a manufacturing point of view, I know that the Tesla structural battery pack is a lower cost but unserviceable. I would think from an owner’s point of view the Hyundai looks better made, repairable and more desirable, but more expensive. Hyundai’s quality of construction seems to be second to none.
Look at that weld on the left at minute 11:37 that is horrible, the tube and the bottom are not even connected properly over half of the length of the weld. Teslas Model 3 and Model Y are very reliable, lots of them with several hundred miles on the odometer which had only minor service to do; so I do not really understand how you come to your conclusion. Never heard about any battery replacement of a model 3 or Y being necessary and I read a lot of comments and Tesla / EV related news. The Ioniq 5 has to prove its longevity, I have my doubts with the only one sided cooling and very little cooling surface; thermal management is crucial for battery life. In winter conditions it will be very difficult to heat the battery up, as there is only minor insulation of the cooling plate to the outside (glasfiber is not a very good insulator) .
I love the model 3. Where did I say that they weren’t reliable? My friend has one. That weld is a segment weld and a holding weld to hold the spacer in place not a stress weld and it’s quality is good. I don’t own an Ioniq 5 but I’ve measured the Ioniq 6 with Vernier calipers and as far as the quality goes it’s far superior in fit and finish to a Fremont model 3. The Chinese ones are better. Look at out of spec reviews of Kyle’s younger brother’s new blue model 3. As far as the cooling system goes, the Munro engineers thought it was well designed. It no doubt costs more to produce than the Tesla structural pack but is repairable. From an owners point of view that’s got to be better.
Serviceability of a pack is a giant waste of money. Tesla’s strategy to pot the entire 4680 pack in foam and glue it shut is the smartest choice. The high level of skill and training needed to service a HV battery is very hard to find and expensive. Plus Hyundai has to pay retail labor rates to dealers for warranty work. Cheaper and quicker to swap packs and recycle the old one, plus any rookie mechanic can do it. Tesla knew this and let the glue flow.
And then you get an issue like GM where you have bad modules that need to be replaced. You would need to throw out the entire pack instead of easily replacing the faulty module. And what about after a decade of use and one of the modules goes bad? Again, you would have to swap out the entire pack. Not really environmentaly friendly or cost effective if you want to give the vehicle a long lifespan.
@@Hans-gb4mv Tesla uses cylindrical cells for a reason. There are lots of Model 3 and Y not the roads with over 200.000 thousand miles on the odometer. Never heard of any issues with battery packs.
Call me provincial, but I believe it is important to support US manufacturing if that manufacturing is as good as or better than foreign sources. The best made, lean design EV's with an owned and operated world wide charging network is of course Tesla. Why would this not be the first option for US buyers? Tesla makes the most US produced, vehicle component content of any vehicle ICE or EV. Seriously folks, test drive a Model Y or Model 3. They are affordable, simple, reliable and amazing to drive.
Look up the price difference... Hyundai tech for now is almost on the same level as tesla but for much cheaper. The thing they lack in is manufacturing and the whole big company having to rip off its own limbs in order to move on thingy. So yeah the reason i went for Hyundai over Tesla is one PRICE.(at the time i got comparable to model3 car is because it was 1/3 cheaper and to some people paying 20k over or under matters ) :D
@@qa1e2r4 Your $ numbers are seriously off (tax savings) and as for tech being "almost the same", you must be kidding or ignorant. Self interest (perception of savings) and no one like regrets seems to apply here.
@@rmkep it is very simple math it involves a coefficient that you never hear anyone talk about. Something i learned from elon. Same as he is doing $ per kg to space. The real coefficient for cars is $ per km. When you relate this to BEV it means how much it cost you to move a km (or 100km for sake of reducing calculus as everyone posts their kwh used for 100km) So yes Tesla have huge battery packs fancy new tech and more cutting edge tech BUT they don't get almost TWICE better for their prices. That is why Hyundai are MORE efficient as you go FURTHER per $ spent. Having a 200$ pack that gets you only 5-10% further per kwh compared to almost twice cheaper pack that is 5-10% less efficient simply doesn't materialize the extra money you invest in it. Not kidding not ignorant. Just math. And i love my regrets its how i keep going. :D
Ok, that is a provincial and incredibly short sighted attitude. Even Elon Musk says that competition is good and they need every manufacturer in the world building EVs in order to make the transition to EVs happen. And Tesla are already proving that they have a very hard time launching multiple new products... something every other OEM just does as a matter of course. This also just happens to be one of the best looking vehicles of the last decade. Maybe the popularity of vehicles like this will encourage Tesla to be more bold with their design choices... and I dont mean just the Cybertruck.
2:00 That poor design choice explains, why Hyundai/Kia have a very high delta temperature between the hottest ans coolest cell in the pack. Tesla and VW perform better in this matter.
Two separate instances of battery pack impact damage and insurance companies scrapping the vehicles after learning replacement cost is 60k Canadian. Neither vehicle had any warning lights or indication of faults in the computers. Not acceptable.
What's unacceptable about getting a new EV? If an insurance company stupid enough to pay for it. When did scrap yards go out of business? There's always a lower cost alternative. Hyundai deals with realistic problems Instead of blaming others such as calling it driver error. Thanks for the BS scaremongering FUD. FWIW Rusting Cybertrucks. Is truly Unacceptable...
I feel like the benefit of an easier to disassemble pack is recycling. I know you can shred the whole thing, but I think it would be more environmentally friendly to separate as many of the big components first as possible. Yeah it's a one time scenario, but it's also a major event. Maybe if you can get the design so lean as to not matter as much. The 4680 pack feels like it's getting there. I'm not as concerned about pack repair as I once was, I think battery chemistry and design will get to a point where failure will be so low as to not matter. Failure rates are already pretty low with current tech. Seems like most repairs were on older vehicles with suboptimal thermal management.
Battery pack price will continue to decrease as well. But until it goes down to sub $5k per pack, there will be a lot of ppl that will hold off on buying an EV. I plan on trading my MY after the warranty expires. I think we are still 8-10 years away from cheap battery pack replacement.
@@Teddy_M85 Yeah, also a reason I'm less concerned with pack repair. Not only do you have to gimp the new cells to match existing degradation, it's generally not an easy process. And yes pack prices will come down with scale. ~10y is probably a good estimate. I will continue to monitor my M3 pack health. As long as it shows no sign of accelerated degradation, I plan to keep it for at least a few years after the warranty. 10 years at least unless something really revolutionary comes out. Already owned it for 2.5 years with maybe 3-4% degradation. That 9/10 year mark is where I break even with gas savings vs. extra vehicle cost of what I had.
