I bet you're doing your back loops wrong | Wingfoiling | Secrets of the Send 

Great point and we’d love to hear more about your thought process here. Why do you think we shouldn’t? To us, while the moves are very similar, there is entirely different techniques that come to doing each type of rotation. And each move does spin slightly differently! It would be like calling a backflip and a gainer the same thing. Despite both being a backflip, they involve different techniques to initiate and rotate.

@@alex-mertsI think the fact you guys can’t even agree on some of the examples in the video shows that they are more similar than not. In the end, I can see that it might be necessary for judging comps, but getting so nit picky kind of goes against the spirit of freestyle winging in the first place. The freestyle comps are set up right now in a very rigid best trick sort of style from my understanding, but I think we’ll see that format change soon enough to a more figure skating type of format where the performance as a whole is taken into consideration more than the best tricks. Winging is a super fluid sport which allows tricks to be linked seamlessly and onto waves and into transitions moreso than kiting and windsurfing. I think that the overall aesthetic should be considered more than the technical difficulty. We’re just starting to scratch the surface in terms of potential in freestyle winging.

Thanks for sharing this :) So in the video, as we were filming, we all had varying opinions at the beginning, hence why we didn't agree at first on some moves but came to an agreement at the end on what classifies as what. We wanted to share and show the evolution of our discussion and opinions. Of course, they are opinions, so we appreciate hearing yours as it's also valid and fascinating to read about! I agree that while freestyle should be freeing and not so nitpicky, at some point, there has to be some guidelines that people can look to because otherwise, there will be people calling moves a backloop, when its nowhere near close to what a backloop actually is. And we agree with you that the format of contests could change to better suit the creativity and performance of freestyle. The current competition model was pulled from the Freestyle windsurfing scene since the owner of the GWA was the former owner of the EFPT. Freestyle windsurf contests are also plagued by the same format, which is more restrictive than freeing. As for a change in the format, that has been a heated discussion that has plagued the contest scene for years since our main restrictive factor is mother nature versus the number of days in a contest. While it would be great to see a figure skater-style contest, with over 30 riders, that will take days to run one round of the competition, most contests don't have the budget to run for more than a few days. It's tough! But the sport is evolving and we will definitely see some change soon :)

Just to offer a counter point of view. A loop has always been defined as something that happens around the pitch axis - whether that be on an aeroplane or otherwise. The 360 has always been something that happens around the the yaw axis (or roll axis) - in aerodynamic terms it would be a spin we just categorize it in water sports by degrees of rotation for scoring purposes. So coming to the conclusion that a loop needs to happen around the pitch axis is neither ground breaking nor controversial as it's been like this ever since the "loop" was defined as a term (all be it that this happened first in aerodynamics rather than hydrodynamics). If we accept this to be the case then all the moves which are a rotation around the yaw axis by definition cannot be loops and are variations of the 360 (or spins). So if we are taking sides on this debate then I have to agree with the panel and it's conclusions as they are the most logical when you consider the axis of rotation and what defines a loop or a spin (180/360/720/1080).

@@alex-mertsa woman on the beach yesterday called my flakas a “whirly dirly.” I feel like that encompasses most rotations. Anyway. Hopefully my comments have fed the algorithm. Keep up the good work.

yes exactly!

Its a backloop ;) his hips go over his head at one point and his board does a looping motion, not a spin ;)