ERRATA/CLARIFICATIONS 10:55 Yes, of course I meant Big Picture mode, I even wrote that in the script, I don’t know what was wrong with me when I recorded this… 11:11 Just using the Medium preset in TLOU gives a pretty smooth 30+ experience overall, but as far as I can tell its image quality isn't quite up to PS5 standards.
Iceberg just keep making the videos you make, I love each one of them and watching your videos always makes me feel very cosy and in-home. ❤ I am sure you will reach 100k and more subscribers under a year.
AMD doesnt report power consumption correctly with any ryzen cpu besides the latest 7000, RDNA 2 also use dream numbers, this is why its important to use a watt-meter or LDAT when it comes to AMD power consumptions. Nvidia and Intel have been reporting correctly for as long as i can remember.
1800p? That's simple enough with ToastyX CRU. For example, I've created many arbitrary resolutions such as 1778 x 1000p and 1689 x 950p. You can also create custom refresh rates like 48Hz for watching 24FPS content.
Several reasons for that 1) These consoles actually a have competently designed CPU architecture instead of AMDs Bulldozer mishap. 2) These console came out with for their time pretty darn decent graphics power (instead of outdated laptop grade and old crap) 3) These consoles are (or at least initially were) sold at a loss instead of profit since day 1 And add to that the nowadays utterly insane GPU and motherboard pricing (CPUs, RAM and Storage are actually at the price point where they should be). Cryptoboom+Scalpers messed up the market and NVIDIA and AMD decided they'd like to continue that pricing structure. Things are starting to look up somewhat again though, an AMD 5600 is only $118, AM4 motherboards start at ~$70 and with some luck you can pick up an RX 6700 XT on the used market for $250-275 or ($150+ for a RX 6600 XT if you're happy with a less than console like experience). At least PC gaming is possible again at a $500-1000 price point, during the height of the cryptoboom just the graphics card alone would run you the price of an entire system.
Hell yeah and then making an actual good gaming PC we should target higher than the best current gaming console cause one thing consoles can always rely is they always have more customized hardware and usually better optimizations...
the ps4/xone were underperforming pretty hard early on with games like gta v that ran at 1080 30 because of the cpu while on a gtx 750 ti 1080 60 was easily possible nowadays in games like god of war on pc the ps4 performs closely to a 1050 ti and im not even kidding
i was sitting here thinking "that performance seems really low...a 4700G and RX 6700 barely hitting 45-50fps?" then i remembered...OH YEAH, you gimped the thing! that's pretty crazy how well this system held together, seems very balanced at that power target. meanwhile my Ryzen 5600x and RTX 2070 system will easily hit 300W and just barely keep up. nice build and excellent reporting as always, mate! thanks!
>meanwhile my Ryzen 5600x and RTX 2070 system will easily hit 300W and just barely keep up. this generation of consoles is amazing. if you could buy that APU/ram package in a PC build it would be a fantastic system.
@@SB-pf5rc I've always wondered why AMD has yet to make the chips / apu (whatever they are) available or even make a small board with the APU and memory as a small ITX package.
@@27Zangle money and rights. the chips were developed side-by-side with MS and Sony. turning those chips into home-computer components would mean they'd risk data mining and hacking the consoles. and who, other than office spaces where they care more for cost effective vs efficient, would buy them? they've already got partners making mini-PCs using their mainstream chips, they don't need another market
I built my console replacement PC last year. I opted for 5600X, 6600XT and 16GB RAM running HoloISO. It's worked well for me so far. Storage/RAM architecture is where both consoles seriously diverge from PC and there's currently no brilliant way of compensating. If I was to really try and push the PC data path as much as I could I'd look at the AMDs 3D cache processors, possibly insist on DDR5 RAM, double up to 32GB so more data can be potentially moved into RAM sooner. And make sure ReSize Bar is enabled for the GPU in BIOS. Hopefully future improvements to the new Direct Storage APIs would improve this.
As Moore's law is somehow clinging on, "console killers" will always come by around one or two generations later after the launch of said generation of console. Though recent shittily optimized AAA PC ports definitely ring the alarm bell on our consuming behavior, especially the part of complaining, while not putting the protest into action to warn the game publishers (as well as Nvidia over GPU things).
Consoles also have a hardware decompression module which offloads the CPU, increases storage bandwidth, and spares vram. The closest equivalent to a console would be something like a 5700x, 16gb ram, gen4 ssd, and a 6800.
Pc in vid is closest. Not yours. You can't be throwing around 32mb of unified L3 cache on the 5700x and pretend it's not a huge overshoot of the impact of decompression hardware and other low level optimisation. Ok so the consoles are great at getting the data INTO the cpu but they still have to wait around for that 2x4mb L3 to have an opening.
@@foxdart Because decompression hammers single core performance the most. I wouldn't get too much into whether that single core boost comes from the cache or the frequency (as it would in an equivalent intel cpu like the 12600k). Besides the super high bandwidth unified memory and no OS bloatware kind of makes up for the lesser cache.
I'd say the most interesting observation is how much the PS5 and series consoles can accomplish on such a low tdp. I would say the GPU is probably better than what the consoles can offer most of the time but as always never a 1-1 for consoles, especially on the first party and bad ports. TLoU is always gonna be impressive due to its first party nature as those tend to be the most impressive games on any given system. I wonder how close a 5700xt could get in performance with overclocking - obviously it needs more power but it would be an interesting thing assuming it's VRAM doesn't become a bottleneck, which at 1440 and 4k is a high possibility.
I didn't look too much into overclocking the 5700 XT, but I was considering getting the regular 5700 and seeing if I could OC it to match the PS5. I don't think I'd have had any luck, as I think most people could only get it to 2GHz.
One thing to note here is how heavy Windows is. On Xbox, it's a run-down version of Windows and PlayStation has it's own. Both instances are really light and hence do not eat up much resources, which is why last gen can somewhat get away with 8 gigs of shared ram. However, there are alternatives like Atlas OS for Windows 10 (Windows 11 version not out yet) and a Windows 11 alternative I can't remember the name of. What these do is basically run over Windows, delete unnecessary backround apps and tasks-including Microsoft Edge fully off your PC-and cut down on CPU and RAM usage. According to a Linus Tech Tips video, you can gain 30FPS because of the extra resource space. As a bonus, loading times for everything is essentially cut in half, speaking from first hand experience!
I had no idea the consoles had a poultry 4mb of L3 per ccd. Looking back at it the 9th generation console cpus aren’t that powerful seeming anymore. Though still better than jaguar cores.
The Consoles CPU is based off Zen 2 but it is a monolithic chip (good for it) uses gddr6 which is good for GPUs but not CPUs, it has less cache and lower clocks than the 3700X. So it is overall for sure weaker than the 3700X. As for infinity cache it works exactly as advertised. You forgot that the 4090 also has a huge amount of cache tgat is your mistake
I was chasing a console build as well. Got a 12700t from a broken all in one PC. A pre owned 3060ti. And there was console that can run 1080p high refresh rate. 2k and 4k is limited by 8gb vram 😅
The algorithm recommended your channel a few months ago, and honestly your audio, video, content and narration is far above what the sub count would indicate. Always look forward to these videos and hope you reach the audience you deserve
Problem is you can’t tweak your windows install or the game design to tailor it for the parts. You would need a slight bump in part specs in order to overcome the Pc shortcomings.
And some shortcomings can't be overcome - shader compilation, or asset hardware decompression (this can be achieved with DirectStorage, but devs have to implement it). PC gaming is amazing when it comes to scalability and options, but man, the quality of PC ports these days is abysmal.
If the multi colored line happens again, I HIGHLY suggest a seizure warning. I know it ain't your fault but those with epilepsy are walking into danger here. I love your content, please keep up the great work!
The latest version of AMD / Intel graphics drivers for Linux just added RT support (like a few days ago). It’s currently pretty bad performance, but they’re actively working on improving it and the support should come to new distro releases pretty soon.
Great vídeo. Would really like to see this bild pushed to its limits. Also a 6700xt with ryzen 5600 build to see how much IQ and performance can It guet above consoles since its probably the cheapest route to outperform them. My questoon would be by how much performance and IQ wise
I was going to leave a comment on pc vs console until I realized that I was writing a treaty retreading well trodden grounds. Still, always interesting to see less than optimal hardware combinations and console comparisons
@@robertt9342 no just wanted to see if fx 8350 and 9590 how they perform in 2023 They struggled compared to an i5 3rd gen But since games are requiring 8 threads idk how they perform
It is really, really bad. I just went from a fx8320 to a r5 5600 just a few weeks ago keeping my GTX 970 and games that were a stuttery unplayable mess are now running 60FPS buttery smooth or better. I never realized how much that CPU was a bottleneck for so long. That being said, my next upgrade is going to be the GPU, but seriously the FX series CPUs are way past their prime.
@@DonaldWyman the GTX 970 uses a software scheduler that harms the fx cpus a lot But i'm Wondering what happens to them when using them with RX 5700 in 2023
I would honestly love to revisit this machine's performance in 5 years from now when the consoles have matured. It would be interesting to see if this pc will still hold.
@@officialteaincorporated243 there is no separate hardware for unpacking data, as on consoles, there is no direct storage, there is no support PCI E 4.0
Just became a Patreon member! You should revisit this setup again and remove all the restrictions you put on the hardware and try to optimize everything. Also, have you ever heard of Playnite?
If you add RADV_PERFTEST=rt VKD3D_CONFIG=dxr,dxr11 %command% to the launch options of a game that has raytracing it will allow it to work in some games under chimera OS. Works for me in Metro Exodus enhanced edition.
Mate, saved me the trouble of building this myself. All round great job, picking the ram really is the hard pard so kudos for just going with what works 👍
Good video. Got a weird flashing green and blue bar artifact in the video starting with RDR2 review at 15:35 and progresses for a while in the top 1/3 of the screen.
The one thing i'd change to try to bring performance more closely resembly the consoles is to use Optane. Now hear me out. Yes optane has a lower maximum read/write than even the external Xobx add-in SSD. However, both XboxS/X and PS5 both have better low level access allowing for much better latency, which is where Optane shines. The problem though is that my 1TB optane drives, all costed $399, EXTREMELY expensive per GB when you can get a gen 3 NMVe SSD, with faster sequential reads/writes than the optane drive, for just $60. But when you look at the latency to actually grab those small game files? Well thats where optane blows the doors off of gen 5 SSDs, the latency of optane is closer to RAM, than to an NVMe allowing it to access those files as the system needs them. Where a high end NVMe needs to cheat by adding 4-16GB of LPDDR3/4/5 RAM, Optane is still faster by a wide margin without any RAM. I initially bought these optane drives for my file server, allowing me to use them for special metadata drives and cache that is persistant, as well as being extremely long lasting(boot is a mirrored paid of 118GB M.2 optane drives). But i didnt expect them to perform so well in gaming. There is one major drawback though for this 'desktop console' project. To pull those small files off the drive quickly, you need REALLY powerful cores, even the 12900K struggles to allow the 1TB 905P U.2 drive to strech its legs while also running a game. And that is the one thing you cannot replicate from a console. Dedicated storage controllers that work directly with the CPU, and special ASICs to run them. Where the 12900k cannot feed the hungry beast, the PS5 is happy to rip through the drive even faster, as long as the NMVe slot in the back can be comverted to U.2 and the storage controller has the same level of access as the internal storage(unlikely for compatibility sake but i dont have a PS5 to test) Servers do have ASICs like this, heck some servers even use optane dimms called DCPMM (data center persistant memory module) that allow you to have a few 512GB sticks of slower 'RAM' that can survive a reboot, sort of like an L6 cache(assuming RAM is L4) The storage controller can either make the RAM invisible to the OS, tell the OS that this pool of Optane is available for RAM overflow, or not use it as RAM at all, and have each drive appeat as an SSD or a single RAID array. IIRC the bandwidth on these DCPMMs would put a gen7 NVMe to shame
Also, i'd add a kit of patriot Viper 4400C19 B-dye, you can generally overclock it to 4800C18 on the 4700G, or up to 5000C16 on the 5700G without needing to drop the memory/fabric/uncore out of the magical 1:1:1 ratio (that means running the infinity fabric and UCLK at 2500Mhz instead of the normal 1600mhz with 3200MT/s RAM)
I hooked into a spare monitor of mine to do some tests but decided to watch this video real quick after you personally recommended it to me. Great video but when it got to Red Dead I honestly thought my monitor died so I am blaming you for the mini heart attack. Forgiven though for the interesting vid.
Awesome video! I wouldn't focus on the cache to much, the main benefit of CPU cache is help with keeping more important data closer to the die, with the consoles that is less of a concern as the hardware is fixed, if a game dev noticed an issue with memory management during a demanding scene or section of a game they can manually tune it to remove that issue etc, on PC that's obviously not an option. Also regarding the Infinity cache, AMD quoted it as making up for memory bandwidth, which it did do to an extent, however, if you compare the 6900xtx to the 3090, the AMD card wins at 1080p and 1440p, but then falls behind even the 3080 at 4K, I suspect that this is because the Infinity cache is great at feeding a GPU smaller amounts of info at speed, but once you hit 4K, the 128MB Infinity cache of the 6900 XTX isnt big enough to bridge that gap. Also the PS5 not being a full "RDNA 2" chip was complete marketing crap by Xbox (I both own and enjoy my Xbox Series X/FIFA box 😆) . The PS5 is a custom RDNA 2 based GPU, eg, they took out features they don't need (such as VRS which was based on DX12U) and added in features they needed/wanted such the Geometry Engine (which can achieve the same thing as VRS but at a better performance benefit, at the cost of requiring more work by devs) TLDR - the PS5 GPU is a console optimised RNDA 2 GPU.
I think your mixing somethings up, amd never released a 6900 xtx, there where rumors of one back in 2021, but it never actually saw the light of day. In the rx 6000 the highest end cards where the 6900 xt and the later released 6950 xt...
"Console Killer", Kit X99 motherboard with E5-2640v3 (can core clock unlock) and 16GB ECC DDR4 3200 (60~75US$ AliExpress), RX 5700 XL 8GB (120US$ AliExpress), 1TB NVME SSD (30US$ AliExpress), 500W 80+ PSU and PC case (20~50US$ anywhere), total cost around 250US$, Series S Killer 100%, but I'm not sure about PS5/Series X...
15:43 I was FUMING " when you left the door down menu settings locked. Unlock it to properly input console equivalent settings. It sure would hit 60s where before you were having trouble
B450, 3700X, 16GB DDR4 3600, RX 6700XT, 650 Watt PSU, Case, 1TB NVMe SSD. All in $480 from Marketplace, Ebay, Jawa and the like. This is 100% achievable as I type this and would meet or beat a console in all ports. Mostly used the only new components would be the 6700XT and SSD. Used they aren't much cheaper so might as well buy new unless you can get a better deal used in which case the price falls even lower. Edit: The PSU i'd go BStock or Midweek Madness from EVGA. You get a good refurb cheap with a warranty.
There are plenty of quirks in PS5 that makes "matching the hardware to match the performance" quite an arduous process. One is dynamic resolution mentioned in the video, and another is clever shared memory utilization (aka direct storage, but with some tweaks) - system doesn't waste resources on copying assets to ram then to GPU memory and that greatly reduces stutters compared to PC-ported games.
One thing not quite taken into account in pc vs console is the dynamic resolution and background quality dropping that consoles use in all games to maintain the "4k60" they claim. Not just some like on pc
@@spaghebbio majority do, don't they? Or at least used to. I don't play on console (not for any reason, I don't hate consoles...) so I'm likely still just on old info
@@DragonKnight077 A lot use dynamic res but some such as GT7 do actually lock at 4k but I can't think of a single game that dynamically adjusts quality settings. Forza might have that as an option on PC but I'm not sure.
anyone else have a wierd line going through the video towards the end??, anyway brilliant content enjoyed it to the end keep up the great work! such aa underrated channel, wish these ps ports would just add console settings option for fun as well as the upscaling methods for a 1-1 comparison.
more closer would be 3700x 16 gb ddr4 and rx 6700 xt cause its only 4 gb less then 16gb vram the 6700 has 6gb less memory issue is 4700g has a gpu in it which needs to be disabled entirely so not wasting memory bandwith
Bruh. I can confirm that the igpu has absolutely no bearing on these tests or "ram bandwidth". In fact, the 4700g is a monolithic chip, it's all one piece, unlike the 3700x which is two chiplets. So it actually handles ram BETTER with more bandwidth than a 3700x ever could. He's got it running at 4000, have you ever seen a zen2 desktop hit 4000 ram?
that green horizontal lines on the red dead redemption 2 scared the shit out of me. last week my acer predator 34 conks out with same problem. i just replace my monitor. hehehe oh no not again.
With the Linux footage maybe you could make a video comparing windows/linux performance? Or add some more benchmarks and see how bad nvidia drivers are on linux vs amd?
I’d very much like to see how everything ran on ChimeraOS. From what I’ve heard it’s more or less only a gaming OS, so if I wanted to switch from Windows to Linux full time that might not be the best OS if I want to use my computer for other things than gaming. I could be wrong about that, but nonetheless, I’m curious to know what performance it got.
Don't forget that the newer models of the PS5 consume 200W because the APU on the newer model is made on TSMC's 6nm node, while both your CPU and GPU are made on 7nm. So you've hit your mark exactly, and the PC will naturally be way more versatile than a console, especially with a 32GB RAM kit
If you want something closer to a Console Killer, A 5700xt with a 3600 4500 or 3700x is probably a better fit though it's main weakness is it's 8gb of vram while the consoles can share 10 or 12.8gb of vram for games
Interesting to see would be a Series S competitor. Obviously not for the price as the Series S is unbeatable but seeing how kuch would it costs us to get similar performance.
Im using a tesla p100 for gaming lol. Its actually really really good at it too. I also may have found a way to install nvidias latest drivers on any gpu. I need to do a little more testing but if i manage to succeed ill come here first.
Funny, this build has a very similar performance to my Ryzen 2700X + RTX 2070 gaming build. Also costs about as much, with the difference that I paid that kind of money 5 years ago, making the investment much more worthwhile. Especially considering that the performance level won't be sufficient for the years to come.
