I can't believe my sponsor said this... I have to prove them wrong! 

Exactly

I work for a global leader in Tech and we had people working for us making bullshit statements which takes us senior engineers month to clean up. It comes down to one thing... you get what you pay for. If you outsource your support you may get that kind of "Staff"

@@NapFloridianyou also forget humans make mistakes

​@r3mus47 It's always a mistake to yap about matter you're not fully familiar with. Marketing people even do it for a living. It doesn't happen often that you're publicly called out for it.

@@stephenlamley541 nah fr tho

meh just use liquid metal on the components if temps matter that much for you🤣🤣

@@SaraMorgan-ym6ue M'kay. So you want to cover your RAM in Conductonaut or what? The VRM too?

or he record the test first then the intro (?)

@@KcinicKGX I think he has done this long enough that he knew exactly what the result would be. He did the video because he felt someone treated him like an idiot. Don't blame him

​@@user-xh8ot6xm5wand yet this whole video that generated clicks for him also helps us while calling out how a manufacturer was/is wrong.

@@user-xh8ot6xm5w who hurt you?

Let’s just say this, origin PCs a rip off…. And on the component list of the system jay was testing was a Samsung 870. 2tb QVO ssd…. Do you know how slow a qlc ssd gets after sac cache is spent? 5mb writes….. a origin pc is 4-5 grand, they could have filled all nvme slots with good quality nvme drives if they cared….

​@@wiseanime2875if you haven't seen the writing on the way with Jay I don't think there is any saving you you are right where you belong or over on LTT he's just as bad

Missed the 4060 videos huh?

Which is why he said bringing fresh air into the system will help the internal components at 2:00 - 3:40

He proved the opossite. The intermal case temperature is hotter therefore the components not cooled by the water are hotter because the delta between the competent and the internal would be less and therefore less heat can be trsnsferred.

And the bestest part is dumping warm air into the case causes it to absorb any moisture brought inside through any way other than through radiator. Another big bonus of the JTC's approach...

or.... his new intake fans were too powerful / he overshot when compensating for the resistance caused by the disabled stock fans. If he's neither using the same fans nor doing a noise-normalized trial it's hard to tell if his results are just from more RPM, though I get it that in this scenario it'd be difficult to control for those things.

@@Wolf480pl nah this makes perfect sence. lets refer to air with any form on heat in it as dirty air. what they are saying is pushing dirty air from the radiator in to the system is not good, so only exhausts....problem with that is the only place to grab air is on the opposite sides of the case (back and bottom) so the air gets pulled over warm components creating dirty air rather then fresh air. the benefit is the ambient air in the case is lower but the radiators get only dirty air so the true hot heads in the system (CPU and GPU) are getting cooled with dirty air. apart from that the fan's are all pulling on each other creating resistance/load for each other they are not fed any air they all have to feed themselves from where ever they can pull it. the...optimal approach (yes I'm helle biased this default loadout is dumb) is to feed fresh air in to the radiators (those cool the water which cool the cpu/gpu which are the most temperature sensitive components) also by adding an actual intake forcing air in to the case the exhausts's will actually be fed air and there for run faster/move more air. wile this air (if inake is only through a radiator) might be dirty because it is fed it moves through the system much faster (not just by RPM but by less resistence/less canibalism by other exhausts) getting deeper in components and carrying even more heat away from the non directly cooled components. I'm fairly certain due to the canibalism going on in this system he could have run his intake's at LOW and the CFM on the exhaust would have still seen a big increase...perfect world would probably be utilize the front and side as intake and the top as exhaust creating positive pressure inside the system (pushing air out of any openings as opposed to sucking unfiltered dusty air through them) feeding the exhaust with both dirty and fresh air having the best of both worlds with quite literally none of the con's...other then it's really really really efficient at pushing the air out of the case (and in to your room)

​@@anub1s15 > lets refer to air with any form on heat in it as dirty air Strictly speaking, that'd make all air dirty, unless its temperature is 0 Kelvins, which is too cold for any human, computer, or fan to function in. I get that this isn't what you meant, you just meant "air hotter than ambient" but the key here is that this isn't a binary thing. How hot would air need to be to be considered "dirty"? 1 degree over ambient? 5? 10? An ideal setup would be to hang your radiators outside the case in such a way that the air flowing through them never enters the case. And then have separate case fans blowing into the case to cool the VRM and all the other misc components that don't have a water block. It'd be kinda impractical tho. Aside from that, even with a bad airflow setup you can just crank the RPM up, which will usually result in more cfm and lower temps - possibly lower than with a better setup - at the cost of noise. It intuitively makes sense that Jay's balanced setup would be more effective - have higher cfm because fans aren't fighting, lower water temps because rads get fresh air, and higher interior (and VRM) temps because the interior is downstream of rads - all at similar or lower noise level. But that's not what he demonstrated in the experiment. He only demonstrated that with enough RPM he's getting better temps. To sum up: - Jay's setup makes sense, intuitively it should be more efficient - he proved this setup can get lower temps with enough rpm - almost every setup, no matter how good or bad, can get lower temps with enough rpm - he didn't actually prove that his setup can get lower temps with same/lower rpm or noise - it probably can but there isn't clear evidence

@@Wolf480pl not that hard litterally any air before passing over a heatsource in your PC is about as clean as you can get it what is air with all energy stripped from it in a scientific book is not what is in my room............ any air that has passed over a heatsource and in therefore above ambient is "dirty" can't believe that's a hard concept but here we are. really not that hard unless you make it out to be hard to grasp. and also if 3 fans in the correct spot at "high RPM" can create a Massive temp drop in cpu/gpu and RAM!!!! (note the high RPM fan's are BESIDE the RAM not aimed at it and it is outside of the water loop, the ram temp is pure increased flowthrough) is that alone not indication that the original setup is crap? you either understand what's happening here and know the RPM has actually less to do with it then you seem to make it out or you don't i guess. also still doesn't address the end user having to deal with a setup that literally pulls dust in to the system through any hole or crack lacking a filter (path of least obstruction always wins).

This comment comes from someone who has been in PCs alot

@@joshuaclark3848 No, it comes from someone with a dusty home. I let me robot vacuum run once a day. When I clean my PC after around 3-4 months there are only some tiny particles in the rads. The difference in the dust build up by negative or positive pressure doesn't really matter if you keep your home clean.

THAT COMMENT WAS GOLD. 😂😂😂👏👏👏👏

Jay did when he was showing fan configuration in a recent video, but he used Incense (same kind of effect)

@@frank.bullitt I must have missed that one, but I wouldn't use incense just because of particulates in the smoke. I know, it's a very small amount, but they can still get in the system.... Would still like to see him use a real smoke source though.

​@@That_guy_Pipall smoke has particles in it, that's what smoke is a cloud of floating particles.different smoke sources would probably have a difference in how much these particles are deposited though. Either way blowing a few small puffs of smoke trough a PC won't hurt it.

I trust hvac tech the most on this one jay

Do you have an opinion on whether the fans should push versus pull through the radiator, or does that not matter? My case is different from Jay's, looks like his outside air is pushing thru, mine has to pull thru

Mostly agree but my air handler pulls return air from the house and blows through the evaporator. It does not pull air through the evaporator. I imagine it would be odd for the blower fan to be positioned where it has to pull air through the evaporator coil. I guess it could happen though.

@@ditto_75 some big AC units do have the rads in a V, and the fans pull the air out the middle of the V... I don't really see them pushing down. (I could be wrong, as I am not HVAC tech... ). For a case, I prefer as many, or more intake fans to exhaust fans at any time, anyways. My case used an Lian Li O11d XL, with fans pulling from the bottom rad cooler outside air, and pushing into the top rad to exhaust out. Side fans pull in fresh air, and back pushes out. It does mean I have 2 more fans as intake to the exhaust...

Yep, same with cars, they pull fresh air through the radiator with either a push or pull fan. If you were parked, with the engine running, and your fan was set to exhaust, your engine would boil over in under an hour. Because your just pushing hot air into your radiator.

THATS What it was!

How else would a gamer do morse code?

@@nunya3163 UP UP DOWN DOWN LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT B A is also an acceptable answer

​@@ilovefunnyamv2ndyou forgot START at the end

yea Jayz the King of PC!

Yooo nice profile picture

@@Boblo Lmao yours is great too

Won't you have the same dust, just not in crooks and crannies?

​@@bootchoo96Not necessarily. It depends on how or if your intake air is filtered. A good dust filter with appropriate static pressure fans to overcome the extra resistance should be relatively dust free. And it's pretty easy to clean most filters compared to vacuuming a case.

@@drahkas8526 I literally forgot about filters, my argument is invalid lol

Says, who? It's up in the air (pun not intended). Always aiming for the neutral zone of Intake=Exhaust pressure, is advisable and just seems more logical. So No, not especially.

As am I. 6 months in and still no considerable dust build up. Also running 6 intake fans. 3 are on the radiator and my exhaust is a Noctual industrial 3000rpm fan and it kicks ass. Never have seen my ram go over 49c and that's with their 7200xmp profile

Yeah, i remember watching that exact video. You are right, the conclusion was to run a somewhat positive pressure as to keep dust out.

That was to test dust build up. This is about temperatures inside the case. The claim Jay defeated is that the inside of the case would be too hot.

@@TheDJ3520 but they also monitored temps.

@@blodhthringa They had an air cooled system. The temps won't be affected to the same degree as a water cooled system, unless somehow the coolers were directly against intake or exhaust fans, like a radiator is.

I hate to be that guy ,but "lets test the hypothesis" not the theory. Theory is something already proven. I am on Jays side of course but we talk about science,so .... Hypothesis. 😊

​@@blackeyeoleTheories haven't been proven, that's why they're still theories This is a common misconception, but in simple terms: a hypothesis is developed before research, whilst a theory is substantiated by data but is still not considered fact or a proven phenomenon. The reason for which is because a number of conflicting theories can be substantiated by data at any one time. A common example that I myself as a biologist refer back to is the concept of evolution and conflicting social-darwinistic vs neo-darwinistic theories

@@obscuretenet Evolution is a theory though??? It has not been proven. (In fact there's much more proof against evolution than for it, but we don't talk about that.)

@@jamesjoslin1737 well the theory of relativity is proven . That is a science community issue. Many of them using the term theory as all we think of it ,but in reality a theory in science terminology is something that is proven by data . I am quoting here "In everyday use, the word "theory" often means an untested hunch, or a guess without supporting evidence. But for scientists, a theory has nearly the opposite meaning. A theory is a well-substantiated explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can incorporate laws, hypotheses and facts. "

​@@obscuretenetgravity isnt a theory😂 that's what it is called that holds you down to said furface. Some planets have more gravity than outhers where some have much less. Its definitely not your mom or dad that keeping grounded to tge ground and preventing you from floating off when you jump 😂 what prevents that is the ammount of gravity.

And you even alluded to it, but negative pressure could/would in some/most cases even pull in the expelled warm air back into the case, thus making it worse.

yea, 99.9% of the heat produced is gonna be going to the rads. barely any comes off the ram or chips on the motherboard. I guess they are kinda right if only your cpu/gpu is watercooled. Either way it probably makes only a degree or two of difference

I wouldn't call it a BS practice, they just were wrong in their supposition. All intake or all outtake is likely going to be wrong. For instance with all forced air outtake you'd have to have a lot of passive intake area to make up for it so it's better to have some forced air intake to match your forced air outtake

This is the way

VRM temps can indeed be affected. On an average system a radiator exhaust can heat up the throughflow of air by 10 centigrades or more. That will definitely heat up a VRM as well if subjected to this sort of airflow.

both rads blowing out means all the dust comes in the cracks or wherever the air can get in and clogging up the rads, slowly but surely, over time. That is just a pain and without a more difficult cleaning practice will lead to early component failure due to high temps/ insufficient airflow.

Hi, if you don't mind me asking, do you have any opinion on whether it matters to have fans inside vs outside the case? Asking because my case has a dust cover that forces the fans inside due to clearance, so I would be pulling fresh air thru the rad in to the case (this is my first build and first AIO and I've been exhausting out the top by pushing the warm case air thru the rad)

lmao getting that Verge PC build vibes 😂"...Intel CPU, yes we've got it!"

ego

Before killing me, I meant GPU not CPU ok?

@@ninja47yt64 In my system, my cpu raises the coolant temp more than my GPU, even under load...

That's why I said before killing me I meant GPU not CPU

It's not a very significant factor because it doesn't change significantly enough.

Balanced is best, leaning slightly towards positive

Positive pressure used to be a big deal when we had floppy drives and optical drives that didn't like dust. Not really a big deal now. The biggest problem I see these days is intakes on the bottom of the case that get plugged up fast even in really clean houses.

Steve's issue with temp numbers isn't specifically Kelvin, it's when vendors try to make percentage claims in regards to temperatures in C or F. When you use a measurement with an arbitrary 0-point and scale like Fahrenheit or Celsius, you can't use a percentage reference number. "Temps reduced from 20'c to 10'c" is not really a 50% improvement. Just changing your scale to F it make that 68 to 50, a 26% improvement. If you want to use a pure scaling percentile for temps, you have to use Kelvin since it has a true 0 base point on the scale. So anytime you see someone use a "%" statement in regards to temperature, your BS meter should be going hard.

​@@blackraenAnd while Steve's right, that's one of his more pedantic rants. Celsius is the measurement standard adopted by the PC community. If Steve only cares about the actual difference in thermal energy present in a PC component when comparing a new cooling solution to an old one, then I think he's one of the few who do. The vast majority of people care about what numbers HWMonitor reports.

@@dembro27 Lol you obviously didn't read or understand. Using Celsius to talk about temperatures is fine, Steve does that, everyone does that. Use HWMon or whatever. The problem is when marketing people try to use 'percentage difference' claims for temperatures. Like I explained, you cannot use %+/- statements with Celsius or Fahrenheit, that's not how it works.

@@blackraen Let me explain myself again since I "obviously didn't read or understand". 1) Celsius is the conventional standard when discussing PC temperatures. 2) Celsius is measured in degrees, expressed as a number. 3) Numbers can be compared against each other in the form of percentages. 4) 20°C to 10°C is a 50% reduction. No, that's not a 50% reduction in the actual thermal energy present in the PC component you're measuring. But it's a 50% reduction in the thing that actually matters to most people: what they see in HWMonitor. Like most marketing, it's a bit misleading, yes, but not something that should be a cause for concern IMO. What's much more important is testing that extraordinary claim of a 10°C drop.

@@dembro27 The problem is how misleading the marketing is. Percentages mean nothing when it comes to coolers. A 100W cooler might be "154% better", but it's still going to thermal throttle any mid-high-end CPU.

You can have more exhaust. One of the things Jay didn't mention is the physics of air flow. A good rule is 1 in 1 out. However 1 in 1.5 out won't harm your system either, especially if you keep to air flow physics. You just don't want competing air flow. For instance even if you did 1 for 1 but had say intake and exhaust mix near the front of the case you'd choke out your parts.

that has nothing to do with what Jay did in the video lol. he pulled air from outside through a hot radiator, you pull cold air from outside straight into the case. did you even watch the video or just dont get the point? lmao

airflow actually went down with the intake because the old fans were still connected to the rad and the airspeed from the intake fans will go down because it's having to spin a fan that's not plugged in. Yes ideally you wanna keep the same fans and just flip them to do A/B test but you'd have to completely disassemble the loop and that's really not necessary cuz all exhaust makes no sense when you've built PCs for a long time. The dust problem alone makes it not worth it.

Isnt that because the sensor now is over the (new) fans, while before was after the rad?

But the caveat is that I believe he ran the external fans at a higher RPM than the internal ones to compensate for the higher resistance of the internal idle fans. He presumed that would make it a 1 to 1 comparison, but really that was just an unscientific estimation. It is possible the higher external fan speed could have been made up the difference plus some, which is why he saw his internal component temps go down. We’ll never know this for sure unless a true A/B test is done. (Maybe on a different set up since the custom loop is hard to work around.) I would have also like to see the effect at lower fan speeds as well, as I try to run my fans a low as possible with out losing too much performance for a close to as silent as possible experience.

I agree the same fans should have been used. Those corsair fans have horrendous static pressure and I wouldn't be surprised if the lian li fans just outperformed the corsair fans...even with them obstructing the airflow

The best way I could see for him to redo this test in a more scientific way would be to do all tests with the internal rad. Fans unplugged and put a piece of tape or something on them to make sure that they will not start spinning with the airflow. Ten test with the Lian-Li fan with same speed as intake and then turn the fans and test again. The air restrictions caused by the internal fans would have stayed the same on both tests that way. Also it would be better to also look at passively cooled components temps, since the air inside the case get higher, it might affect the temperature of the SSD, chipsets or system memory. He only look at the CPU, GPU and video memory temp.

I think if you have one single fan intake is better because its pulling fresh air. Either way it doesn't really matter

@@squidwardo7074 yeah, 1 fan only? intake ... than the heat rise up

If you have 1 fan, it should be an intake and filtered fan.

Whose Theo and jordan?

Bro what the hell lmfao are you watching a Jordan Peterson and Theo Von vid and commented on the wrong tab kek

yeah, with LTT you don't have to worry about sponsers lying to them, they can do that all by themselves.. Then when they are corrected by viewers and other reviewers their first response is to defend their lies and after that cry about it... while those lies have cost other people money.. JayzTwoCents is the only one I watch if I want actual facts PLUS information I can follow and understand.. GN is good too but the way they present their information and the speed the guy talks with technical terms or numbers makes it hard to watch/follow and learn from.. never had the problem of having to rewatch Jayz video because I couldn't follow along. But LTT... to me.. they don't excist