I recently had a Power loss on takeoff forcing me to land in a full grown corn field. My fuel pump failed at very low speed and altitude. I have replaced this pump a few time in the 5 years ive owned it. I explain. in video... Im fine!
The pulse line from the fuel pump is much longer than Rotax advises in the manual. These pumps are extremely reliable when fitted correctly. They do not tolerate, however, any kind of airleak or weeping in the fuel line, which is the same for most pumps. And having a long pulse line greatly reduces the strength of the pulse as the flexibility of the hose absorbs the energy. The failure on takeoff is exactly consistent with a pump not being able to keep up with demand from the engine. Not mounting these pumps as per Rotax installation instructions has caused countless problems and deaths wrongly attributed to the engine or Manufacturer.
Very true. I never had a diaphragm pump failure. They are super reliable. I have had several paper air and fuel filter failures due to the mixed oil in the fuel. The paper eventually plugs from the oil and causes a power loss. I only use stainless steel mesh filters. Problem solved.
Hey Ben, good job on landing that Firefly! You were not hurt which is the best part. That cage is repairable and you've got the skills. On the upside, it wasn't the 447's fault which is good. When you get it rebuilt, use a dual fuel pump which will give you more redundancy. You feel bad now, but all that pain will go away when you get that thing flying again.
He’s right it can be fixed even the keel tube . It’s all about time and your plans for your kit fox put it on the back burner or make a deal with a friend . Good save glad your ok corn is good 👍
Hi Ben , I am sorry to say , your mechanical (actually pneumatic) fuel pump is wrong mounted !! Look at the mikuni manual ! All this type of pneumatic operated fuel pumps has to be mounted higher then the pulse line outlet from the engine !! Reasons : condensate and other liquids must run back to the engine , not into the pump ! 2. The pump has to be mounted with there diaphragm horizontal and with the pulse line inlet at the bottom,there is a little drain hole in the pulse line inlet of the pump , to let eventually liquid out , otherwise it will fill up the pulse diaphragm housing and weaken the pump performance , the EGT goes up until the engine jammed or quits . Even engineer’s do it wrong , I think it’s a kind of complacency , I know it all , I don’t have to read the manuals!! If you disassemble your pump and find liquid where the pulse line enter the pump that’s terrible wrong ! It must be completely dry !! Those pumps are extremely reliable , if they are mounted correctly ! I hope this helps .
The pneumatic fuel pump needs to be upgraded to a higher capacity option. Mikuni will offer the solution.. Also, that pulse line should be as close to the engine as practical, keeping in mind close proximity to high engine temperature heat can cause vapor lock.. l prefer the gas tank higher than the fuel pump andI are obviously the pump needs to be higher than the carburetors.
@@oneninerniner3427I hear they used to not have weep holes but all the new ones I've seen in the last 6 years or so have had one. Not sure exactly when they started adding the holes.
Just a thought of design, especially for other people and hopefully you in the future, building some awesome airplanes. As you know, the reason certificated aircraft run electric boost pumps during critical phases of flight like you pointed out. In a system similar to yours where a single point of failure in that critical phase it should be designed to recover without pilot intervention. For the exact reasons you experienced. If like you said, the thing just didn't run right with both pumps running, I'd recommend a simple pressure switch on the carburetor inlet line, if the primary boost pump can't maintain adequate fuel pressure for any reason it will turn on your electric pump. Even if it just pulses the electric pump (which you had a ticker pump anyway) it will maintain good pressure. Can even tie an indicator light to the instrument panel indicating that the electric pump is coming on so it can't mask a primary pump failure. I'm glad you're okay and I'd love to see that thing back in the air. It looks like too much fun to write off.
There are folks who have had that very thing happen in a corn field and have ended up dead. Thankfully, it wasn't your time, but in the end, we will all die. This video is a sobering reminder that we aren't in control really and it's only the grace of God that gives us another day. God has saved me many times from dying, literal miracles and I have heard true stories from folks that died and experienced heaven and some hell on the other side. Some of them were resuscitated and some were brought back by a miracle. Dean Braxton actually has his papers from the hospital where he had been dead for an 1hr and 45 minutes roughly. Dean shares about heaven and seeing Jesus. I'm thankful to God that you are good, have a good day man.
I have a motorcycle with a pump feeding fuel to carbs, and I had the same problem with fuel pressure making carb tuning very difficult. I saw somebody's solution was to feed up and over the carb with a T-fitting: One side goes down to the carb, one side returns to the tank. From the carb's point of view it's basically just gravity fed.
Nice reaction to the sudden power loss! You flew the plane, keeping good airflow over the wings, and touched down softly at stall speed with wings level. That seems like the most important thing to me in these low speed aerial vehicles. I've had a few engine outs myself.
I’ve watched your videos for maybe a year or so. Always thought they were fascinating. Appreciate your sharing your joy of flying. It takes a ridiculous amount of time to film and edit videos. Very happy you are OK. You handled the engine-out as well as could be done. You avoided the ubiquitous stall-spin. You remembered to aviate, navigate, communicate. I’m the last person to tell someone else what to do, but suggest you take some time to think about what to do next before you decide. Does not seem like a huge repair job once you get started. Perhaps it won’t detract much from the Kitfox project. Getting started is always the hardest part. Maybe the cage does not need to be replaced. Welding in chromoly tubbing is perhaps possible. Anyway, putting it back together for another flight before your sell it (if you decide to sell) seems the epitome of experimental/home built aircraft skills. Once again, glad you’re ok.
Bravo on that stick and rudder work my man. It's not until we have found ourselves in this type of situation do we then get to see the person we are capable of being and the type you always wonder if you are, the will I freeze and be that guy or will I own the moment and be conscious mentally to work the problem. It's a nice feeling to live life going forward knowing you stepped up in that moment and can finally put to test that other doubtful mindset.
I had just found your channel, watched an older episode where you were flying "Low & Slow," and thought to myself "Ah, great! just found a really cool channel that I can follow," then this! Anyhow, thank goodness your okay, and this couldn't have occurred in a better location and time, etc. I'll stay w/ you though - as whenever you get your other airplane ready I'm sure your channel will be amoungst my favorites. Take care, buddy & thanks...
This is the 1st video I've seen of yours. You did a great job! You maintained control right up to, and including when you started harvesting that corn. You should be proud of yourself, you earned it. Regarding what to do next: I think you should fix the Firefly and sell it (you'll definitely get more money from an operational plane). And Focus your time on the Kitfox. FYI Piper Cherokees run a mechanical fuel pump with an electric back up. The checklist calls for the electric pump to be engaged during takeoff and landings as an added level of insurance. Good Luck! SUBSCRIBED !
I’d recommend to remain focused on finishing your Kitfox, since that’s where your head & heart seem to be. However, keep the Firefly and repair it once your Kitfox is in the air and phase I is completed. Glad you weren’t injured; that’s a blessing!
Keep it up! As already commented, just get your hands on the project where your heart is right now. The Colt can wait for the future, as well as we, your audience. Stay safe and have a great time!
Ben, great flying! Thank God you were not hurt. She is certainly worth rebuilding, but I know the Kitfox is calling for your attention and money. Seems to me there must be away to keep the electric pump on for take off at say at half pressure for a safety margin.
Wow! My 2-stroke engine mounted on a Rans S-12 quit at 500ft. and I got 20 seconds before an off-field hard landing back in the 90s. Your video give me the chills. Good job maitaining air speed and stalling the airplane. Any landing you can walk away from, is a good landing. Don't feel sory for the airplane, your life is more important. Thanks for sharing.
Well done. After a few weeks your mind set will be different and then you can decide the future of the Firestar. My reckoning is you will weld the cage, sleeve or shorten the boom and get back to enjoying the machine. I recommend connecting both fuel pumps in series with Facet upstream of pulse pump. If you have too much pressure either get a low pressure Facet or install a pressure regulator after the pulse pump or install a capillary by pass tube after the pulse pump to the tank to reduce the pressure. I presently use the first alternative with a low pressure Facet with a 582 successfully. I have also flown alternative 3 in a certified self launching motor glider with a Rotax 505 similar to a 503.
Nice job with the emergency landing. Your instinct to push the nose down to gain airspeed was the absolutely the best thing you could have done. I liked your comment about not flying in an area where the only emergency landing would be into trees. I am a high time ATP, CFII with a lot of time in ultralights as well as LSAs. I have seen WAY to many people skimming over the tree tops, over impossible to land terrain, and in general thinking an engine failure will never happen to them. I love flying these aircraft, but I never fly them in areas where is no available emergency landing spot. Nice Job with excellent piloting skills.
I'm glad you got away so well, you're alive, that's the most important thing. (I'm not a pilot) But I don't think you could have done it better! It seems like a fun thing to do, it's a shame but that's not possible here in the Netherlands. Healthy and Friendly Greetings from NL Rotterdam! Rob
A constant in all of our minds when we fly. Good job keeping your cool and flying to the ground. I am really curious about what really happened to your fuel pump. Did the pump fail? Was hose bad? Please elaborate if you can for all of our benefit. I have always had an electric pump for take offs and landings and has worked for me on several Rotax powered planes. One was a Firefly that your videos inspired me to buy and fly.
You live to fight/fly another day, plus you’ve got a good tale to tell your kids and grandkids should life take you that direction, they love that stuff. Did the 3 seconds seem like you had all the time in the world or was it quick? Great job keeping your head.
Long time subscriber, been awhile since we exchanged thoughts. Really glad you’re ok, and like our CFI’s always say “Fly The Airplane”. You did just that. Still working on the S-14, the engine is coming soon.
Glad you’re ok. I always wore a helmet when flying ultralights for a little extra protection. Even landing in a cornfield like that I would’ve hated to take a corn cob to the forehead.
Cool beans, no bodily injuries are always a good thing. I believe the boom tube and bent tubing can be replaced via gas or tig welding in new tubing for less money than new factory parts.
hi bud glad you are ok , just like to ask if there was no corn but flat land infront would have you still been able to have flared and landed ?? cheers for your sharing this and again God Bless .
Glad you are ok....When I built your fly in 98/99...I made one mistake that some other viewers may spot...That is the location of the pulse pump.. If mounted below the pulse port, the line and pump can accumulate oil...from the crankcase..! Rarely ever happens...but....could...Likely not the cause here....since you have replaced the pump multiple times...I always bought the rebuild kit for other pumps. Never owned this bird long enough to have that need...
I have a facet pump on my bird too. Recently I've got in the habbit of turning my electric pump on for takeoff and landing in an effort to prevent the scenario you just experienced. I installed the facet pump parallel to the pulse pump with check valves after each pump. After the check vales it goes to a brass tee then into the carb. This way if the pulse pump diaphragm ruptures the facet can still get fuel to the carb. Also, when run in parallel the total fuel pressure will not be increased. Running the pumps in series can increase pressure too high and flood the carb if both are in use at the same time which would prevent one from turning on the electric pump during takeoff and landings. Another reason parallel is better than series. Andy Humphrey has a great article about fuel system design that is worth the time to read. RU-vid often deletes comments with links but I'm sure you will find it easily with a search.
Good advice, your fuel system needs a re-design. Both pumps should run without enriching the mixture. Your takeoff checklist should now include having the electric pump on until you reach a safe altitude. Include a pilot lamp to indicate it's on and prevent it's burning out. Pushing forward to maintain speed into the flare was your best option and you walked away without injury. May be easier to buy a new fuselage tubing assembly and tail boom.
The check valves already in the pulse pumps normally prevent back flow and very rarely fail but it can happen. You could have dual pulse pumps and add a shut off valve to the vacuum line of each pump so they can be tested independently during preflight or during flight .
@@user-sg8tp7pk9x We are trying to mitigate abnormal operation not normal operation of the pump. Maybe it's the check valves in the pulse pump that failed causing it to not deliver fuel. Electric pump is much easier to turn on and off than valves. If the engine runs with the electric off you know the pulse pump is working. If you want to make sure the electric pump works, install a fuel pressure gauge, turn on electric pump before starting engine, if you get pressure it's working. The facet pumps will also make different sound once they build up pressure so you can kinda tell if they are working without a pressure gauge if you run them before starting the engine.
While in the cornfield and perhaps while carrying the fuselage out, do you think the fuel could have spilled/drained out of the carb? I know when I turn my lawn mower on its side to check the blade, fuel spills out of the carb.
You did an amazing job my friend Easy repair send Dennis @ Kolb a picture of gear socket and he will send u a repair kit. You need to fix and fly while you are building your other project Thank you for sharing Travis in KY 3 miles from Kolb Co
Great minds ... I fly a paramotor and also have an additional electric pump installed just like yours, except when I went to Aircraft Spruce, I chose the one with the lowest pressure. Mine are commected in series, both always operating, and I have no problem with flooding. That might be because of rhe low pressure or also because I use a membrane carburetor which may have a higher spring pressure closing the valve. I really like the idea (posted above) of routing the fuel line to above the carburetor, adding a return line and then the carburetor sees just a gravity feed. When I assembled my system, I assumed that the electric pump may fail, so I added mechanical valves I could switch to bypass the electrical pump, but if rhe membrane fails, I'm landing. I have yet to see any other footlaunch paramotor pilot flying with an electric fuel pump. Probably 30-40 hours on that setup, no issues with it so far. Be safe!
the forward crankcase can carry another pulse line for true back-up pump redundancy. might need an overflow return line to tank ? nice landing. Smooth like corn silk.
Although I like flying, I'm more into motorcycles. I see lots of cool goodies in the background! P.S. I love the Kitfox. Hope to see some videos of your progress on that.
You said that a fuel pump gasket leak caused your loss of power. What did you find when you took it apart? I have fourteen hundred hours in Kolbs and never had problems with fuel pumps. Thanks in advance for your guidance.
Good job on landing safely, well done. Thinking about getting one and am glad you got 5yrs out of that engine. Gotta say though I am only looking at 4 strokes. I know there are a ton of folks and hundreds of thousands of hours flown with 2stroke engines, so yea it may seem irrational. For me though, it's got to be a 4stroke.
Boy you sure 'planted' that one.. 😁 Seriously tho dude I'm impressed, I saw you slam that stick forward like a boss when the engine cut.. right at the worst possible time too.. excellent job man most excellent. you deserve to walk away from it. Sorry about your bird tho. Corn looks hella smaller from the air, glad you're alright.. Your new callsign is 'Flakes'... thanks for posting!
Your electric fuel pump may put out too much pressure overwhelming the needle and seat resulting in a rich mixture. They do make electric fuel pumps that put out low pressure. I have seen people put electric fuel pumps on motorcycles and they run poorly, a pressure regulator or a pump with a lower output pressure will cure this problem . Then you will be able to takeoff with 2 pumps suppling the engine with fuel eliminating a fuel starvation situation .
Agreed! I have been running my pump on takeoff with a Kawasaki 440A without a problem. It is the same make and style as the one in the video. You can get these with different specs including the output pressure so a different model might be in order. I think mine is model 40104 which has a low pressure compared to the other models. There are a couple others that are close spec wise.
dam very lucky there i have to say nice job on the landing for having a engine out i only had one time a engine out on my weedhopper but was at 4000 feet and had to land on a road as not any big open fields near by
The rule with 2-stroke engines in ultralights is that it's not if the engine is going to quit, but when. Don't fly over anything you don't want to land on.
Off topic, but what camera are you using to videotape and what is it mounted on to give you the ability to swivel your POV? Glad you walked away safely from that flight!
glad you're safe , i wonder if there's a way to fix the dual fuel supply issue. would love to have and feel better to have that redundancy, especially with rotax engines.
It's probably a blessing that you didn't turn the electric pump on at that altitude. May have been a lot worse. Glad your good. You should repair it and keep it, you would probably regret selling it.
I did not know there are Cornhuskers in Michigan? Can this secondary fuel pump be run just during takeoff and landings, for added security, or would that cause additional risks, like an engine flooding situation or some other issue? Why not just run both fuel pumps at the same time? Why would it run rough with two? I guess this would make a (heavy) fuel injected and liquid cooled engine very desirable?
I have the original build manual for your bird...printed in 1995....the instruction is to mount the pump where it is located! Wonder if that has been corrected?
You just about made the biggest mistake some pilots make on engine out at a low altitude! Something like that there was no way you would have made it back to the runway because it looked like you wanted to turn back. Good thing is you are here making a video if the mishap and a le to fly another day and NOT in a ball somewhere off airport reservation. Awesome job!!!!
Good job of saving yourself and the plane to some extent. On the electric fuel pump you can make a return line off the pressure side to slow the fuel to dump back into the tank just need a copper or steal t and solder the return port shut and drill it out wit a small drill bit to allow it to pressure up to a certain low pressure and then it returns to the tank my 912 has the same setup and it works fine.
Could you post this video of n South Texas Ultralight Flyers. Could educate me and others. Just learning. I’m in ground school and bought a MXL 2. So excited and appreciate ya
I was told not to flare at the top of the corn but to fly into the corn and land. Worked for me one time when I had engine out over a cornfield, I had no damage to my Quicksilver MX.
Fuel pumps don’t like the Pull fuel. Especially uphill. They like to push fuel. I would suggest the electric pump pushing fuel to the mechanical pump and now your redundancy is already there. Plus your mechanical pump will be much happier.
Ben, I know exactly what you went through. It was on an airbike on take off and about 40 feet in the air. The plane made a hard turn to the right, so I put in full left rudder and then full left aileron. It was still turning to the right and heading toward a 100' tall pine. I pulled the throttle and nosed it over and made a 'good landing' in that I walked away from it. A one bladed prop will do that. One of the blades of the prop slung off. We found it about 150 to 200 yards back. I know a lot of you armchair pilots out there will say that the engine would have vibrated off. Well, it didn't and there are plenty of witnesses that can atest to that fact. I took the prop to Wayne Ison (TEAM Aircraft) who also concluded that it was a centrifugal break in the wood. In situations on take off you don't have much time to codgetate on what to do next. I applaud your actions. The main thing is to stay alive.
If you end up rebuilding it, you could consider replacing the electric fuel pump with a lower pressure one. That way it's not fighting with the carb and you can use it on takeoff without any problems.
Hi, I work on small engines all the time. In the last 5 years I have replaced 75 carburetors due to ethanol. It is hell on rubber diaphragms especially on pulse fuel pumps. Matter of fact- almost all the trouble is with pulse pumps. Now that everyone I do work for has been told about rec gas, tada- no more trouble. The problem is not so much when they are running them weekly, but when they sit for a month or more. Brand new motors (2023+) have mostly been converted to etoh gas. I’m sure you’ve probably heard this already, just wondered if you had is all.
By the way...obviously did not know to mount the pump high. :-) Kolb will likely want 5 grand for the cage and boom tube. Too...that was a new engine....back then..
check psi of the electric fuel pump. you only need 3 psi. if it ran bad while on likely its a 7 pound pump or more. my 503 DC with 1-3 psi pump runs no different while on. then I kill it once up and away. glad your ok. I've put mine in the corn too... crank bearing failure.
What a shame. Do you think that if you would have done a full power run-up before take-off that might have filled the bowl. Do you think you should try to land on the top of the corn or fly down into it? How do you think you would have done in beans? Thanks for posting, and glad you didn't get hurt.
Standard static pre-takeoff run-up time could be viewed as the theoretical amount of time it takes to reach an altitude that gives you landing options in case of engine failure. For a Kolb Firefly with 447 you should reach 500’ within 45 seconds to +/- 1 minute after brake release. So why not run the engine up (as a test) and hold brakes for 45 seconds before every take off. This is simply a quick test to evaluate if the engine is or isn’t going to provide power in all probability during the take off/initial climb. This also happens to be about the same amount of time the engine slurps up about +/-1/2 carb bowl of fuel. I never once took off in a Cessna without doing a good long run up and mag check. Somehow it’s not the thing to do with finicky problematic 2-cycles lol. UL pilot 25 years !
Rotax engine failed. I’m glad you are ok. First Your time and experience saved your life. I’m new to seeing your videos. So I have a couple of questions. Are you getting your pilots license? Looks like you love flying so I’m hopeful that’s your direction.
