@@migliorstore4780 I think it was neutral space, at the least outside of both Federation and Romulan. Neither of them did the usual "you're entering the neutral zone" rhetoric.
@@DrewPicklesTheDark What Picard do is right. Anyway, not all he choose not to do is right, fruitful, desirable. I mean, he should have learnt s bit more of self-respect. Learnt and reached from others.
Depends on if any of those friends are in Section 31, they might be able to pull some strings. Considering that the initial incident with the Pegasus got swept under the rug shows that someone at Starfleet Command was involved with the experiment.
@@nick0875 that went out the window when Picard decloaked in front of the Romulan ship. there’s no hiding that anymore, the whole account of the supposed mutiny and loss of the ship is now called into question leading to a guaranteed court martial or worse for him
@@bostonrailfan2427 Hmm, it's easy to brush something under the rug if only the side you run sees it, but it is basically impossible to brush something under the rug when the other side sees you themselves hahahaha. No way any Starfleet members would have gotten high enough in the Romulan government to make a difference, even section 31 hahahaha. (Also, this is me agreeing with you, just wanted to add this on as I found it funny)
"Worf, send this detailed message!" [5 seconds later] "Worf, arrest them and get them off the bridge" Worf: "You know there are other people on this bridge that aren't busy at the moment..."
"Admiral Pressman, The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth, whether it's scientific truth, or historical truth, or personal truth! It is the guiding principle on which Starfleet is based, and if you can't find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth about what happened, you don't deserve to wear that uniform." Captain Picard
Me to Picard after that speech, don't you lecture me on the truth, you self righteous son of a bitch your were not there on that ship when the crew mutinied!!!!!! Trust me and get off my ass!!!! If not you are not the man I thought you were Picard.... storms out
Romulan Operations Officer: "Captain. Federation Starship decloaking off the port bow!" Romulan Captain: "Raise shie- Wait, what did you say?" Operations Officer: "...Federation starship... Decloaking sir." Captain: "So, this is what it feels like..."
Pressman: "I have a lot of friends at Starfleet Command, captain." Picard: "I don't care. This is Star Trek, what happens in one episode, stays in one episode."
The one thing missing from this episode is a scene with the Romulans showing blank shock when the Federation starship decloaks right next to them. I would love to have seen that.
"You're going to need them" That line always sends shivers down my spine, it's not often that you can hear and feel utter loathing for someone in Picard's voice. Sir Patrick is such a great actor ❤
Yeah, but Picard was wrong. Pressman wasn't working alone - the phasing cloak was a skunkworks "Area 51" project. Starfleet provided the funding, the engineering, and the Pegasus in which to try it. In reality, Picard would have been removed from command and court martialed. By demonstrating the Federation not only had a cloak, but a material phasing cloak to boot, he single handedly cancelled the treaty he though he was trying to protect and informed the Romulans in no uncertain terms that a treaty with the Federation wasn't worth beans.
Pressman does have friends though. He was only a captain during the Pegasus event yet the whole incident was swept under the rug. Now during the recovery, he's not acting alone and has the consent of other admirals and members of the Federation council. He's likely a member of, or operated by, Section 31. And it's those friends that will keep him out of the stockade even after the recovery incident. I personally think the treaty of Algeron should have been dissolved years before this. Think of the 'anthropological' research that could be achieved, visiting undeveloped worlds without exposure, not to mention the strategic military advantage. It's really quite a nonsensical and hindering contract despite the diplomatic overtures, especially considering the other 2 major powers (Romulan and Klingon) utilize them. Just my 2 cents.
@@24thCenturyBuff Mostly agree, but the treaty was effective in keeping peace, something both sides but particularly the Federation very much wanted. Develop the cloak by all means, recover it and hide it if an accident happens, but keep it under wraps and keep the treaty intact. Keep refining it, but keep it undeployed until the time comes if and when there's another war with the Romulans or the Borg return. If there's never any need, the better, but it's great to have a back up plan.
@@calvinjackson8110 Yes, the assumption is that the people for that project were chosen very carefully, and they also live in a time when Betazoids or other telepaths could determine if someone was likely to rat or whether they did. In any case, this story presupposes that the Romulans were totally unaware about the phasing cloak until the Enterprise decloaked in front of them.
I can see why Picard ordered the cloak to be disengaged in front of the Romulans. He knew that if they just snuck out, Pressman's friends would sweep the incident under the rug and carry on with the cloaking device, but if the Romulans knew, then those that were in on the experiment would be rumbled and couldn't deny it.
Idealism is great, but when you're playing with the lives of billions, you need to be pragmatic too. Punishing Pressman is not more important than the survival of your species.
@@michaelm3691 That just means that the treaty of Algeron was a mistake. But if you've made such a mistake, you can't just go around breaking it either, at least not unless you're in a situation where it's your only chance of survival. In all other situations, and particularly in peace time, you _have_ to either not strike such a deal at all (which is what the Federation should have done) or work around it.
@@SamaritanPrime Picard's real ace-in-the-hole isn't an omnipotent Q. It's the old groundskeeper at Starfleet Academy - when Boothby speaks, Admirals listen.
Admiral: "Listen, pal, I don't know if you realize who-" Captain: "I'm sorry, Admiral, what was your name?" Admiral: "Pressm-" Captain: "NOBODY CARES."
Riker explaining what happened to the Pagasus is pretty terrifying. Half the ship rematerialized in solid Rick, and so did half the crew. It a horrible way to go.
Who had it worse, the ones that materialized in the rock, dying instantly, or the ones that materialized in the open space of the ship, without shelter, water, or food?
Or even cooler, those that got fused to the rock and the ship itself once it de-clocked and instantly got crushed! Ode to an old myth of the 'Philadelphia experiment' google it.
@@divinedoodooyou win. But on a different note it’s obvious those that died instantly had it better, however before the cloak failed they were watching it happen. I assume only a few of them saw it on their panels that it was failing and those that were working on the relays and other things did see coming so for the, it was quick and, again I assume, painless.
Picard: "Disengage the cloaking device." Pressman: "You cannot do that!!" Picard: "Don't tell me what I can't do!" Pressman: "Hey... that's a good line."
Still one of my favorite TNG episodes. Brilliant back story, Picard showing that he’s the REAL Admiral here in terms of authority and charismatic Leadership.
In reality, Picard totally effed The Federation. His pettiness accomplished three things - ended the treaty that kept them in peace (duh), showed a megaweapon that the already paranoid Romulans should fear, and that any future treaty with the Federation isn't worth the paper it's printed on (assuming they used paper for traditional treaty reasons).
I thought it was cool that his 'part' in the holo-program was "Chef", who you never actually meet. Though I don't really like that they made the entire thing part of a TNG episode, kind of cheapened it a bit. Like if the show Picard ended with Q being like "just kidding, Jean-Luc - you're still at Farpoint." And the entire series reboots back to that first scene.
@@waynepalumbo8917 They got robbed of one or two additional seasons where they could have played out the events until the founding of the Federation properly. Reviewing them from an external perspective wasn't the worst choice for an "emergency end" of the show, IMHO.
When I was a young kid I was blown away by the techno jargon hoping one day to understand it. Now I have a PhD and I am laughing my arse off, it’s soooo good!
Take a shot every time their solution to a problem is to modulate shield harmonics, reroute power somewhere or use the deflector dish. They should always just start with those 3 and then go from there.
I love how Picard and Pressman are both witnessing the Enterprise pass through the rock with two very different emotions. Pressman looks so smug and self-righteous in the belief that he’ll be vindicated while Picard looks on in horror as he sees part of the dream of the Federation die with every kilometer they pass through the rock.
@@InfernosReaper Further, to directly restrict technological development which is already in widespread usage by numerous foreign powers because they decided you shouldnt be allowed to?
except pressman is actually right, the treaty is absurd. The Klingons have cloaking. The Romulans have cloaking. The Ferenghi have stolen cloaking. GODDAMNED EVERYONE ELSE HAS CLOAKING! That treaty should never have been signed!
@@lenkagamine4145 yes but in response Federation sensor technology is probably the best in the quadrant. We never hear about how good Romulans and Klingons are at finding cloaked vessels. We usually hear them asking the Federation to help actually. Federation sensor technology being higher than others also ensures that Federation science improves at a faster rate too. Thus, the Federation keeps an edge in general technology and does to the Romulan Empire what the USA did to the USSR.
The Federation needs people like Picard, but because of their unwavering idealism they also need Section 31 to protect them from the rest of the universe that doesn't share their sense of right and wrong.
I just noticed that one of the things Picard kept in his personal archive was the Captain Picard Day sign from the kids on his ship.... That item was in the first scene of this episode.... Simply put.. I think it reminds him that his word and the word of the leadership of the Federation can be and should be trusted...
Enterprise shoots a text to the romulan "Yo sorry about that, I'mma send an email to the head office so no worries, please don't have follow up questions".
Pressman: I have a lot of friends at Starfleet Command, Captain! Picard: A man charged with breaching the most important treaty in the sector might find himself with fewer friends than he thinks.
Shame the special effects budget couldn't have swung something else ... after all, if they're phasing through the rock, wouldn't that mean the rock is also INSIDE the Enterprise? Wait, never mind. They could simulate that with the special effect of 'a lenscap'. But it may make for boring television ...
As he said in this very episode, he pulled quite a few strings to get the original court findings de-classified. He has his own friends. Pressman is toast.
Picard should have told Riker, "Agreed, but remain at your post. You shall remain on duty pending Starfleet's decision, based on good conduct and your own recognizance."
It's an inconsistency yes, but I'd argue that the context plays a role here. The cloak in "The Pegasus" was used for all of about 90 seconds, while the Defiant's cloaking device was part of an agreement with the Romulan government. Plus, the cloak on the Defiant was used for the express purpose of passing through space undetected, while this one was for getting out of an asteroid. Still though, that should have been clearer :P
@@ClassicalCentral No where near as bad as "All Good Things" where the future Enterprise-D never initiated a Tachyon pulse in the Devron system; negating the entire paradoxical situation.
Maybe the whole thing was hushed up to avoid a diplomatic incident. So Worf, ever the loyal Starfleet officer, makes sure to remind everyone he's never been on a cloaked Starfleet ship before.
@@JesseBusman1996 Section 31 DID have it; according to the post-Nemesis novels, the entire project was a 31 scheme all along. Admiral Pressman's "friends" at Starfleet Command was an oblique reference to 31, since 31 was essentially unknown outside the organization in 2371. Using the cloak during the war with the Dominion would likely have not had much impact, as it was simply a more advanced version of the normal cloaking device and 31 could assume with justification that the technologically advanced Dominion would have found ways to penetrate that cloak as well. 31 was more interested in eradicating the Founders via disease vector, which ideally wouldn't be traceable back to the Federation (Julian Bashir discovering the link - and his moral revulsion - was an x-factor they didn't predict).
@@Vektorix28205 "it was simply a more advanced version of the normal cloaking device" that's not even close to accurate... the phasing cloak was just that; it put the ship out of phase with normal space. It didn't actually cloak the ship at all, and was an entirely different technology.
Tom Poston - Nope, it would have TOTALLY changed the course of the war. A Federation fleet with a phase cloak could literally pass through a Dominion fleet without the, knowing, decloak in the heart of Cardassian territory and strike targets that were less defended because their ships were on the front lines. Had the Federation used the cloak, they could have had the Dominion begging for mercy within a week. Keep in mind, the Romulans had similar technology. Even if they held to the treaty with the Romulans, they could have negotiated to use it when the Romulans entered the war. Of course, nothing in the books is canon, so there’s no real evidence that Section 31 had the cloak, nor any evidence Pressmen or the project had anything to do with Section 31 vs. just being a black ops project under Starfleet Intelligence. This is my biggest issue with anybody trying to source the books - you might as well source “Bill’s Fanfiction”, because that’s all it is.
Riker owning his actions at the end amidst all the turmoil…so cool. Kurtzman should be ashamed at what he’s done with such an awesome pop culture legacy.
Note: the Federation DID develop cloaking technology later on. But they did so without actually violating the treaty - most likely by openly discussing it with the Romulans. "Yeah... we're developing an anti-Borg vessel. An Escort class ship." "Is it going to have stealth technology?" "It's going to have EVERYTHING needed for fighting the Borg. Weapons, shields, cloaking, and fast engines." "And why should we trust you won't attack us with your new ships?" "Because we have a proven record of being trustworthy. And while we are technically expansionist, we do so through peaceful exploration and diplomacy." "Hmm... if you were in the habit of being devious and unscrupulous, we'd say you were lying. But... your track record DOES suggest that you really mean all that." "That's why we take such care with maintaining our good reputation. It's amazingly useful."
@@Blackberet122 The U.S.A. lacks "softpower" because of its penchant for violating treaties, undermining foreign governments... basically, the U.S. government acts like the Romulan government.
The Defiant didn’t originally have a cloak. That came later on loan (initially included with female Romulan subcommander) from the Romulan government when the Dominion was discovered in the Gamma Quadrant by DS9
Other than Riker being arrested and ae never know what happens, this episode helps set up the events of Picard very nicely. Picard and the Romulans become besties from this episode forward, reinforced by Star Trek: Insurrection. At the end when the Romulans come to give aid to the battered Enterprise, Picard starts saying "they don't know our procedures.... just open the door."
Also, this explains why Riker is still on the Enterprise-E until almost a decade later: those captaincy offers probably stopped coming in until the fleet was rebuilt after the Dominion War.
@@Doogie2K3Apparently he had been rejecting offers for captaincy since First Contact. The last episode of Enterprise shows Riker mulling taking charge of the first USS Titan and using Archer's experiences to help make his decisiob
@@SantomPh Are you referring to the last Enterprise episode? I believe that one was actually placed in this very episode, with Riker trying to figure out if he should finally come clear to Picard about the cloaking device.
I can understand why Starfleet did not use cloaking devices. Their mission is primarily peaceful exploration. But there are other races that do use cloaks and are not friendly with the Federation. Pressman was partly correct that the treaty gave the Romulans, et al, an advantage. IMHO, Starfleet should have the technology, but not use it unless in times of war, like with the Dominion.
@@taylormoore5098 because it was part of the program the chef was 40 lbs heavier than Riker so he appeared so, easy. Why Riker and Troi appears older that's the hard one here.
As silly as that is, it's much better than if he were going to, I don't know, make some mundane speech of little importance and just wanted to see what it was like to be like Barkley for a bit before doing so.
And to think, if Riker hadn’t spent all that time on the holodeck, taking to heart what happened with Trip Tucker, toward the end of the NX-01 era, he might never have come clean with Picard. Oh, wait. ;)
Here you go throwing a bunch of random words on the screen that make no sense because there definitely has never been a ST episode like that, definitely.
NO. He was PISSED. The treaty of Algernon clearly states the development of stealth cloaking tech and anything related will be passed on by the federation. Everyone else has cloaking tech and used it to kill so many federation ships and outposts yet the treaty clearly states no the federation will not have such a device and definitely notna phase dimensional stealth cloak thats just OVERPOWERED as hell.
@@SWIFTO_SCYTHE I get that. I saw the episode too. I was just doing some out of the box speculation. You need to try and relax a little. Maybe lay off the caffeine.
@@SWIFTO_SCYTHE Actually the impression of the treaty given by cannon sources is that the treaty out right bans the federation from developing technology specifically to cloak a vessel. With the one exception in the case of mutual cooperation with the defiant and the delta quadrant. This technology could still be employed for archaeological studies, mining, and scientific development as the cloaking effect could be considered a byproduct in those purposes. I suspect this would be the case as there are numerous cannon cases where an item was intentionally pushed out of phase with the rest of reality producing a cloaking side effect that didn't violate the treaty of Algeron.
Pressman: The fault was not mine..the mutineers must answer Picard: THE MUTINEERS ANSWERED WITH THEIR LIVES, ADMIRAL AS YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE IF YOU HAVE ANY SENSE OF HONOUR! YOU LOST THE STARSHIP OF THE UNITED FEDERATION OF PLANETS! YOU DISGRACED US, ADMIRAL! YOU SHAMED US, ADMIRAL!
@@LaFaJe not at all? he died in season 5, murdered by Ben. Anyone who tells you they were all dead from the beginning didnt pay attention to the show. it was only in certain scenes in s6 where they were dead in an afterlife.
What REALLY surprises me is that they didn't just strip the cloaking circuits out of the thing and develop it as a phasing inducer. Make one hell of a defensive system. Literally blast 'Can't touch this' over their comms as the enemy attacks them. And although phaser may be useless, photon and quantum torpedoes would lose their phasing after they left the ship and should still be deadly.
The cloak may be a side effect of the phasing and not removable, Since the matter is phased it is no longer interacting with other matter INCLUDING photons meaning it can't reflect light and is thus invisible. Incidentally this could also be why ships cannot fire while cloaked, because they are phased and unable to interact with other matter, which would be a MASSIVE defense buff to cloaking. (although obviously they found a workaround in one of the TOS movies so that's a plot hole or a different type of cloak.)
@@barneyrubble4293 That's an interesting idea, but Star Trek IV and VI had already established that a cloaked vessel is solid: Gillian ran into the Bounty, a harpoon was deflected off the hull, and the Enterprise blew up General Chang's ship while it was cloaked.
The Romulans had already overplayed their hand. They trapped the enterprise and were now caught red handed, but they also had proof the federation violated part of the accord as well. Bringing this back was more valuable than blasting the Enterprise.
Considering all the sabotage, attempted sabotage, attempted murder, abduction, and treaty violations the Romulans consistently get away with, I'd say this one blip is pretty meager in comparison.
I love how the cloaking device is consistent and similar to the one in TOS - something you could sling over your shoulder yet able to conceal an entire starship once you connect some wires to it : )
well, a nuclear powered submarine is powered by an amount of uranium so small that it would fit in a wastepaper basket, and that powers the submarine for 20 years (though we normally only take about 90 days of food with us. I personally have been underwater for 87 days straight.). :)
This show gave me so much solace. Good decent people working for a common good. Star Trek movies was like watching a nerdy a-team. I like Picard more and more and think he might be best as he doesn’t have Spock and McCoy for help. He does ask for advice but he’s got such a nice confidence in truth and justice.
Picard tells Worf to send a message, then immediately tells Worf to escort someone to the brig. ...This is why telecommunications and security were two different jobs on the previous Enterprise ships.
Once the truth about the phase cloak came forward, Pressman lost all his credibility. Will had been carrying the guilt of what happened for 12 years. A number of the crew trapped in that rock were very likely his friends, even if he was just an Ensign. Probably a number of Ensigns like himself were apart of the mutiny. Will was more than willing to take responsibility for what happened as he was tired of all the lies surrounding the Pegasus. Pressman was already planning to start the experiments again with other like minded individuals. This Federation cloak wasn't the first of its kind in the galaxy. The Klingons and the Romulans worked on their own versions. The Klingons lost their prototype of a Bird of Prey that could attack while cloaked in The Undiscovered Country. Each new tech has flaws that can(and will) exploited in fiction. It was the flaw in an old Bird of Prey that allowed the Enterprise to end the threat of the Duras Sisters permanently.
Do you think Pressman was working alone? He's not an engineer - he was put in charge of the "skunkworks" project by Starfleet. Starfleet funded the project, provided the engineering, and provided the Pegasus itself as a test bed. Picard threw the Federation under the bus by exposing the cloak to the enemy. The treaty he was trying to protect was now cancelled (if the Fed could break the treaty, so can the Romulans). The Romulans now know that signing a treaty with the Federation isn't worth squat.
@@attiepollard7847 look back at the original series episode the Enterprise incident where Starfleet had sent Kirk and Spock on undercover mission to retrieve a Romulan cloaking device. In the section 31 novel series cloak, it was revealed that Admiral Cartwright came up with the idea and he was a member of section 31. The treaty between the Romulan star Empire and Federation was never about peace but creating a buffer. The romulans still held a tactical advantage with cloaking technology. Starfleet and the Federation may play by the rules but section 31 wouldn't let something like this go unanswered or addressed. Also remember Admiral Pressman said, I have powerful friends.
@@wa.a.s.nfa.2786 just because some admiral does something like disobey a order from Starfleet to make a phase cloaking device does not mean that section 31 is behind it. Just because a Klingon moon on praxis blows up out of nowhere does not mean that section 31. was behind. We will have to face the fact that all of these are just major coincidence until evidence shows otherwise and we will have to face the fact that they are admirals and officers in Starfleet other than section 31 who undermines the ideals and the values of the federation.
@@attiepollard7847 I'm not saying by any means that section 31 is behind every Cloak and Dagger aspect. But in this particular scenarios it is safe to say that it's a more darker clandestine operation than Starfleet intelligence. True enough there are some people in the hierarchy of Starfleet command that tend to take matters into their own hands with a concern security and safety of the Federation. But it's not unheard of of this being taken up by other Rogue elements. Section 31 has been behind a great many of things you would call less than lawful. This scenario with Admiral Preston could be part of a larger symptom or it could be just his own actions involve. But this Mission couldn't have been sanctioned just by one.
@@wa.a.s.nfa.2786 All I'm saying is not every major event is S31 Doing . That's like saying the CIA is being had everything and we are forgetting that we got other alphabets in our intelligence agencies like the FBI, NSA, DEA and US Marshalls who may have shady people in our organization's who do unlawful stuff.
The Treaty of Algernon is THE SINGLE DUMBEST THING in Star Trek Lore. It would be like the US and Britain signing a treaty in the 1920's to never develop submarines.
you know it's funny, a British surface admiral said we submariners are pirates. That's why British submarines often fly a pirate flag. lmao. (generally if an American submarine comes into port flying a pirate flag, it means they did something underway that they considered to be badass. Although they won't be able to tell you what it was because our missions are classified.) But in the 20s, it was in fact considered to make submarines illegal, because surface ships are basically sitting ducks to us. When somebody says they are in ASW -- anti-submarine warfare -- we say "what, you're a machinist's mate who works on the auxiliary seawater system?" lmao
The Treay was pretty much swiss cheese by this point in the series too, the Romulans had violated it like a drunken sorority girl at a frat party by this point and Starfleet knew....but the writers loved Status Quo is God at that point ( and considering how shit current Trek is, maybe we shouldn't judge them too hard. Also that quote about the druken girl and the frat is something I lifted from somewhere I can't remember, but it seemed fitting )
Have to remember that there are many pacifist members of the Federation who are intellectuals and will destroy any non-pacifist arguments in a debate. They are the same ones that gave up Federation territory as concessions to appease the Cardassians when no such thing was even necessary to begin with. It would be great to have a series based entirely on the Federation council itself, showing how ugly it would get there with the daily debates.
@@krisdphillips Kind of surprised they didn't immediately open fire. Since they had already threatened to blow up the asteroid, their weapons should at least have been semi-ready.
@@novaiscool1 I'm pretty sure that alone isn't grounds for opening fire without warning though. What I was trying to say is that in this situation, opening fire might not even have been a subject of rational consideration, but simply a gut reaction out of fear.
They knew what was on that ship, they knew by sealing that asteroid the only way out for the enterprise would be to use that technology. Im pretty sure they half expected it.
To be fair signing a treaty which stopped the federation from investigating a vital military tech was dumb af. He was portrayed as the bad guy in this episode but really the federation investigating such a vital tech makes total sense.
The best part of this for me is the shit eating grin the admiral has while they're passing through the asteroid. He totally thinks it working proves his point and is expecting applause, a promotion, stock awards, and a ball washing when they clear the asteroid.
In reality, Starfleet would support Pressman and be royally effing pissed at Picard for showing the Romulans the Federation couldn't be trusted with any treaty.
@@oldtwinsna8347 Yeah, in canon, but my comment specifically said "in reality". In fiction, our heroes can be whatever the writers want them to be, but in reality, what Picard did was seditious to the Federation even if it was well-intentioned - Star Fleet would have unceremoniously shot Picard out of a cannon..
Great and subtle facial acting by Stewart. Even though this cloak is entirely against his principles as a Starfleet officer, Picard still can't help but marvel at the technological achievement of it.
I'm surprised that the Romulans didn't hail the Enterprise right away after seeing the ship decloak off they're starboard bow and I was even surprised the phase cloaking device still had power after being inactive for 12 years even if Pressman said it was still working when they recovered it from the Pegasus' engine room.
@@waynepalumbo8917 Because Admiral Pressman did have friends at Starfleet. The phasing cloak was "skunkworks" Area 51 type project that required funding, physicists, engineers (Pressman wasn't), and the Pegasus test starship itself. Pressman would have been assigned to head up the project. PIcard would be in big trouble at Starfleet by summarily announcing to the Romulans that the Federation had broken the treaty and couldn't be trusted anymore. Terrible decision.
Riker: "Imma go over to the holodeck for an hour and think about this." Troi: "Can I come too? I sense something climactic is going to happen." Riker: "Nah, I'm just going to put a TV series to bed."
I love how the Romulans and Cardassians get to violate treaties all the time without consequence, but the Federation has to pretend like its better than that.
@@williamcostigan91 The worst part is how one-sided these treaties are in the first place. The other side always benefits way too much compared to the Federation. The Dominion War is a great example of that. Countless dead, but just 1 Founder goes to prison and that's it.
@@InfernosReaper It's the exact reason Spock's Terran Republic failed so spectacularly. When you're surrounded on all sides by hostile powers they will take advantage at the slightest hint of weakness. The idea that the Romulans, who have been attempting to destroy the Federation and the Klingon Empire constantly over the course of next gen should be treated as the wronged party here is laughable.
@@williamcostigan91 Yeah, there's making compromises for peace and then there's giving concessions just to put off fighting until later. The Federation probably hasn't made a good treaty since that one that allowed for 3rd party arbitration with the arbiter of choice.
@@InfernosReaper Yeah it might not be the enlightened 24th century human thing to do, but I would have been drinking that bloodwine right alongside Martok in the ruins of the Cardassian Central Command, as he said "Poetic Justice."
@Anti-Federalist 1776 The Tal Shiar (the Romulan Intelligence Service) would be able to aquire the knowledge about the phase cloak sooner or later. I suspect that it would be possible to develop scan methods to detect phase cloaked ships. Also, having a cloaking device of any kind doesn't mean your are invincible. Your ship still has to decloak in order to fire its weapons or using its transporters (since they have to be in phase with the rest of the universe to be of use). And the Romulans still have their "conventional" cloaking device.
"I have a lot of friends at Starfleet Command, Captain!" "The man who violates a peace treaty and nearly reignites war with the Romulans loses Starfleet Command's friendship..."