Since the beginning I am a big fan of Marie Antoinettes and Fersens Love for each other! He was ready to risk his own Life for her several times! So sad they couldn't be a couple. This might have been one of the biggest love storys in history then.
One big problem with queens having lovers is the risk of conceiving children not fathered by the kings. With the language of the day plus whatever remnants of courtly love remained, it is possible Marie Antoinette and von Fersen had an intense romance without actual sexual intercourse. Or if they did they were extremely careful that she not get pregnant. The second son's DNA shows his father was Louis XVI. Marie Antoinette had two big battles in her life. First with the courtiers and later with the populace. The nobles were formidable and would have destroyed the queen if she gave birth to a baby that would in any way physically resemble von Fersen. I do think there is enough evidence to indicate the pair did have a romantic relationship. All sources seem to indicate Louis was indifferent about sex. Unlike his predecessors he did not have mistresses. Louis also seemed to accept Fersen's friendship with the queen and family. I would like to think he knew about the romance and was OK with it. On the other hand maybe the romance was passionate courtly love and it was acceptable. Did Queen Victoria become "Mrs. Brown"? I think not. The arguments against Victoria and Brown having a physical relationship are twofold. She was probably still able to conceive when the relationship began and she would not risk a scandalous pregnancy. Second, experts say she was severely against relationships out of social class thus there is no way she would have secretly married Brown and for the same reason an intimate relationship is very unlikely. Did Queen Elizabeth I have sexual relations with Robert Dudley the Master of Horse who had an apartment net to her? Again there was the risk of pregnancy. Did they have a physical relationship such that pregnancy was out of the question? Perhaps. I hope they had a fulfilling relationship. Axel von Fersen was a great comfort and support for Marie Antoinette. I hope they had all they joys available to them. As far as royals and chastity, many if not most kings had mistresses. Even medical science at times believed a man needed relief or he would retain poisons and explode or something. God knows the Bible warns against the sin of "spilling seed upon the ground", and the church was an important part of government. If it is accepted that kings had multiple mistresses, I do not see why an affair should soil the memory of a queen who was locked into an arranged marriage from age 14, with an indifferent husband. I think Louis offered to send his wife and children to safety in Austria when things were getting worse but before such a trip was impossible. Marie Antoinette elected to stay with her husband, She was extremely faithful in ways that counted the most.
What the DNA test concluded was that the boy was Maria Antonieta's son, with the DNA from her hair. But it does not confirm that he was the son of Louis XVI. Most likely he and Sophia were Fersen's children.
This book is a fascinating read, so thoroughly researched. Thank you! With so much correspondence destroyed is it possible that Axel may have returned briefly before either of the first two conceptions?..
🍃🌿Kirsten Dunst epitomized my idea of Marie, she's brilliant. The stylized movie might not have met some expectations, they did mine, the 2 leads beautifully crafted adolescent personalities trapped in their luxury, youth, and their sad resignation to their fate. Your interesting presentation afforded me some new insight, Ferson was with her when Sophie died for one, and I thank you for all your time and effort. Patty
I'm so excited to hear about another of your books!!! I'm not sure how I missed this one!!? I will be sure to pick up a copy and spread the news with all the great fans I know. I have done a great deal of research on this topic for as long as I can remember and you have assisted me greatly!! I loved your book "The Untold Love Story," in fact, I have two copies and have bought several as gifts!! This is a topic very near and dear to my heart and always has been, some things just resonate deeply, yet there is no viable explanation. I have a vast collection of books about her but I found that your book both touched and assisted me the most when I was writing the screenplay for little labour of love, my indy film "Let Them Eat." The title being a double-entendre in the film and of course NO CAKE!! We know she never said that!! I cringe when I see the endless lies written about her, how the smear campaign and misinformation continue. She was so much more than how they have inaccurately portrayed her. Bless you, for all you have done to shed light on the truth, especially about this enduring love story. This is my absolute favourite, most enduring love story NEVER told and many continue to argue its veracity. In my film, I showcase their enduring love quite prominently. I would love to share the extended trailer with you, you were such a great inspiration!! I'm not sure if you permit links on your channel, if not, you can find it on my channel here on youtube, at poetessa2, it's called "Let Them Eat, the extended trailer, the most recent. This is not a shameless plug btw, I really would be honoured if you saw it. In fact, I would love to send you a copy free of charge if you wish to see it. It only seems fair after all the inspiration you have given me throughout the years. By an odd coincidence, it was released the same year, (2006) just months apart actually, to Sophia Copolla's film "Marie Antoinette"....which sadly I found, despite the film's quality and stunning backdrop, costumes etc... lacked the heart and soul of the queen and made her look frivolous, just as they have so many times before. And shockingly, my little indy with a modest budget received some rave reviews in comparison, in part, thanks to you. Wishing you all the very best and continued success with all your books, they are gems to be coveted!! With sincere gratitude always, L.C.
Axel von Fersen was more than this. The flirt with Marie it was a parantese in his life. He was at this time present allover where history was written and had much on his conscience. His insignia was Gustaf III ambassador but more belike an assassin probably the original James Bond.
Even after all these years I dont think it is fair to slander her name, Marie Antoinette had enough slander and propaganda against her during her own life time. The proof that she and Fersen had a love affair is scanty at best, and to say her children were his is wrong. In a large court such as Versailles you would be seen and watched. I have told male friends I've loved them, thev'e helped me and cared for me but I haven't had a full blown affair with them. Stop with the lies and see it for what it us a deep friendship of care.
A book entitled "Lost King of France" states that the young son was fathered by Loui XVIII, DNA tests with the heart of a child, & lock of Marie Antione's hair. Such a sad end.
I don't think it should be consider Slander to say that a woman in an arranged marriage put herself above the heartless system and manage to find love and sexual expression and perhaps even children with the man she loved. Even if this was intended as slander during that time period, I would not have a lover opinion of her for that, rather I would think higher of her. I would certainly have been unfaithful in an arranged marriage. There is nothing sordid about finding the love of your life, even if that person isn't someone you have been forced to marry. She had Trianon and her private rooms to give her privacy. For someone with conservative values, it would be natural to think: "I want to like her, and if it turns out she was cheating, I can't like her anymore." Stop with the loveless puritan conservatism and see her as a human who deserved to experience romantic love, without you being upset for loosing your "Faithful Catholic Martyr Queen". She had several male friends, and only Fersen were pointed out as her lover by those who actually knew her. She has several male friends on a platonic level, but she was a human with a need for romance, and she could not get that in an arranged marriage. They were lovers regardless if they had sex, but they likely did. I have no idea if they actually had children. The remains of her son has been tested and proves that she was the mother, but say nothing of the father. Perhaps he could be tested again for his fatherhood someday.
@@yellowrose9355 What the DNA test concluded was that the boy was Maria Antonieta's son, with the DNA from her hair. But it does not confirm that he was the son of Louis XVI. Most likely he and Sophia were Fersen's children.
Its so sad that some still regard it as "sordid slander" that they were lovers. There is nothing sordid for a woman who was forced to enter an arranged marriage to find the love of her life, and perhaps even manage to have children with him. This is something to admire, not something that puts her down, unless you are a conservative who thinks she should be faithful to a man she did not love and had been forced to marry; they would not like her if it turns out she had been "cheating", it would blacken her name in their eyes. I have no idea if they actually had sex, or if they were lovers without having sex. Marie Antoinette had her private rooms at Versailles which were designed for her to be alone without the courtiers, and foremost she had the Trianon, which she loved just because it allowed her privacy. It was accepted for women of the aristocracy to have lovers in the 18th-century and many women around her did. If they had sex, it doesn't mean her children were Axel's. Contraceptives did excist. Her youngest son may have been Axel's; the DNa-result only showed who was his mother, not his father. Her youngest daughter were likely named Sophie after Axels favorite sister, hardly after the king's aunt, who were only his younger aunt and not very liked by Marie Antoinette.
was there any privacy for those royal members? even for very private matter and inside very private house, they were still attended by several peoples. They did always have spare eyes to peep and spare ears to hear. Would that be easy to do anything without being gossiped?
She had her private rooms in Versailles, which were the rooms in which she could be just that - private, not a part of her official state rooms. She went there when she wished to be alone. She also had Trianon. The very point of Trianon was so that she could be alone, private, away from the rest of the court.
I have no idea, but even if she was not, she was probably given her name after Axel's sister Sophie. There were no other Sophie she would have been named by; she were maybe officially named after the king's aunt Sophie, but in reality that's not likely, since Marie Antoinette didn't like Sophie and she was the youngest and most insignificant of the king's many aunts.
