I'm SICK of this Backpacking Gear SCAM and I'm fighting it... 

Biggest scam is this channel hasn’t hit 100k subs yet.

biggest scam is that people think you constantly need the latest and greatest overpriced gear

I’m beginning to think Kyle is scamming us and he actually doesn’t hate hiking.

I think one of the biggest scams is people getting psyched out of attempting a long hike, either from themselves or fear-mongering from others. I promise you, you are way tougher and way more badass than you even realize.

biggest scam is paying $150 for UL camp chairs when you can just stay home and sit on your couch for free

Outside of minor comfort upgrades, the entire backpacking gear marketing industry is pretty scammy. Like unless you're living out on the trail full time and constantly wearing down your gear, you don't need to be upgrading sleeping bags, tents, backpacks, etc every season. Buy once, cry once.

I bought budget gear to get me started. Then I work towards saving money for one piece of gear I really want to replace the budget item. I try to get one item every one to two years. That way I don’t feel like I’m breaking the bank.

The biggest scam is sleeping bag comfort ratings. They advertise a 0° 850 loft down bag/quilt and when it arrives it’s a freaking 35° bag (exaggerating but you get the idea) with an extreme survival rating of 0°. And you’re paying $350 for the damned bag. Just freaking be honest…

Sassy Susie isn’t exaggerating. Maybe women just get insulted more but my first 2 night backpacking trip (which was solo), I wasn’t even on trail yet before an older gentleman crossed the parking lot to talk to me and proceeded to degrade my gear. Two other men I encountered on that same trip weren’t so direct but still made snide remarks. At the time, my gear was bulky because I was new and not investing big money yet, but I wasn’t unsafe, so there was no need for the comments. Happened on the east coast.

One company that is for sure NOT a scam, Durston Gear. Well priced, top quality.

That's why every time I buy a tent I always treat it. I never take chance that they're waterproof. What's worse is when you buy a tent, treat it, and it's still not waterproof. Ground cloths are also used to protect the floor of the tent from wearing out. Another scam are survival kits. Best to create your own. I have only witnessed it once where two douches were preaching to some hikers that they didn't have the right gear. They encouraged them to turn back down the mountain. I informed the hikers that they were only ten minutes from the summit and to not turn around. They freaked out and turned around without going to the summit. Ridiculous! Their gear was just fine.

I dont mind paying more money on quality gear if I know its made here in the U.S (or Canada), bc I know the labor costs are more, and I try to support American made products and companies. What ticks me off is when “American” companies try to sell their gear at ridiculous prices and then you scroll down to see that its made in Asia or Mexico.

Agree 1000% on that seam sealing upsell BS

Biggest scam is RU-vidrs and backpacking companies promoting winter backpacking/camping that it's just as great as summer/warm weather camping...BS and they know it!

As an avid motorcycle rider who occasionally camps I live by the saying buy once cry once wether it is parts for the bike or gear for going outdoors. Have an awesome day everyone.

Seam sealing being an extra cost can seem kind of annoying these days. However, I'm old enough to remember when that was not even an option. You had to seam seal your own tent no matter what. Everybody had their own tube of sealant with that stupid brush left over from the last time they bought a tent. And the sealant looked like crap on the inside of the tent because we were all amateurs at sealing the seams. I got a Six Moons Luna Solo last year and SMASHED the button to add the option to have them seal the tent. SO worth it to not have to do that job. I think that companies who provide the option to let you do it yourself are actually just giving old-schoolers a chance to save a few bucks and keep the price of their stuff a little lower. For me, it was just about the easiest $35 I've ever spent.

“Bears have massive cans.” I laughed out loud at that one.

I think Dan Durston is doing it right for balancing cost/weight/features/durability in his gear offerings.

HAHAHA Thanks for the shout out Kyle I forgive you for being drunk when you told me ;) haha I really actually like seeing what people use and why they like it, it's just the unfortunate annoyingly condescending few (2-3 a year) that get me.

One time (very recently), in Desolation Wilderness I had a UL nerd tell me all my gear was wrong and I needed to change it all out. That’s the only time I’ve experienced it.

My dad is an AT thru hiker from way back and when he took me on the long trail we used a stove that was just a soda can with some holes poked in it. Super ultra light, effective and cost a dollar

Pricing. Sometimes justified but often a factor of 'what the market is prepared to tolerate'. 'Ultralight'. Often a trap that encourages people to buy and carry more gear 'because it is so light'. 30kg of ultralight gear still weighs 30kg.

Ratings on sleep systems are ridiculous. Temperatures on bags are a survival or extreme rating but some high end companies are a comfort rating. So I’m supposed to wonder what the story is and call every company I’m interested in to find out? Which I have done. R ratings on air mattresses. I’ve seen charts on the internet that are specifically converting R value to temperature for air mattresses give different information from each other. I’m supposed to guess with this too? Give a damn temperature.

The issue with anything made from DCF is that there's a single source for it, and that company was purchased for just shy of 1.5 billion last year. We should expect prices to continue going up for any gear companies that didn't have an airtight pricing agreement in place prior to the acquisition.

Emma Gatewood grandmother of 23 hiked the Appalachian Trail with nothing but a knapsack and a pair of Keds. UL is ok but not necessary at all.

The biggest scam is waterproof/breathable rain gear. Period.

Biggest scam in backpacking is RU-vidrs who hate on the camp chair……

I quit buying most gear years ago, got tired of wasting money trying to find what works for my type of hiking so now I just make my gear. But that required learning a whole skill set! 😀 Also most people are on trails while I'm exploring the deep, dark woods... they don't sell a lot of gear for that.

One Scam I see is some very light Run packing gear in the 25--28L, maybe 29--30 L range trying to be pushed as working for UL overnight when 90% of the brands packs do not have a bracing system or stiffener pad in them at all or ability to use one so they will only work for runners who are continually moving on a very long trail and do not need a tent, sleeping bag or other heavier gear you want for standard UL packing like the super light stove/lighter wood stove. Even overnight stops on run packing these packs will not work as they then start to get sloppy with the heavier pieces of gear in them. The run packer wanting to do an overnight camp would need to get some of the overnight UL packs in the same 25--30L that are made, for a lightweight tent and sleeping bag.

40L Jansport pack. Used. $2.50 at 2nd hand store. Used it the whole way in '99 for the PCT. STILL using it. It weighs 26 ozs.

All you need is legs and determination Hello from Ireland

You are very good at what you do . Only a matter of time before your page blows up. Keep bringing brother .

I would never use a Jansport and flip-flops... I was carrying everything in a cardboard box and shoeless when I hiked from Idaho down to Utah

Kyle, just recently found your channel and I love it. I enjoy the vlog style content. I enjoy the authenticity and your personality coming through in yhe videos. I'm an avid backpacker and outdoor recreationalist in my 20s. I strongly identify with your media and I hope you continue to produce.

I made my own groundcloths. I use them to keep from having to scrape mud off my tent. Easier to handle the groundcloth. Offers a bit of abrasion/puncture resistance.

I'm a bicycle tourist on the road half of every year so gear interests overlap with hiker gear. I get so tired of people on my social media who have never lived on the road telling me what gear I should use. Like Suzy, I am also on a budget too. It's easy to know what somebody else should do from behind a phone screen inside their house🤣

Biggest scam in camping is telling people they need a tent, especially when a 10x12 tarp costs less than $50 and u can use it for more than just making an aframe.

I am carrying a small bear canister (BV 350/400) on the AT for my thruhike this year. I am aware that I might not be able to pack all my food in the canister for a given stretch between resupply points, so I am prepared to hang the most disposable food (if there's such a thing) and store the rest in the canister. I will be carrying the canister inside of my ULA CDT on top of the DCF liner. Your mention of carrying your food in your pack with the empty canister brought this to mind. Thanks! 👍

6:58 I did a lot of research on various tents for two people before I bought my Tarptent. I went ahead and sealed the seams myself, it took me about an hour seal the seams for like $5 worth of materials. I was really happy with my Tarptent. When I get back into backpacking I’m completely open to buying another Tarptent.

RE..Cost.. Depending on what you're doing how much do top of the line car camping setups cost? motor homes ? camper trailers? overseas motel holidays with air fares bikepacking , yachting maybe. I have a bunch of Zpacks gear and others and I think it's cheap compared to other types of holiday adventures. I go hiking with ferrari type gear and love it.

A scam I was told when I started out back packing was to go to stores to buy the things I needed. Luckily I've been in the marines and the MPs and know how to make do with what I have/can afford. Second hand markets are a great resource for cheap gear and if you have your hands/head screwed on right you can probably fix some broken items for cheap.

I'm okay with youtubers trying to sell me stuff as long as their whole catalogue isn't 90% gear talk with repetitive titles such as "5 pieces of gear every beginner needs"

The biggest and dangerous.....is goretex...let me down over 20 years.... multiple jackets many different fabrics all s..t!? What a waste and life threatening...too 😔

I think people misinterpret "scam" to mean "things I don't like about hiking" on half these things.

I see people complaining about price when it comes to a lot of products for backpacking as well as overlanding equipment/off road RVs. However, people have to realize they usually fall into a specialty category. Meaning, Small quantities, often hand-built and made out a more expensive materials. You just can’t fairly expect the same prices for these type of products to mass produced, machine built, assembly line items, often made over seas.

Nah man, it's like all a scam. I hiked PCT with only my warm thoughts, shower shoes and a bag of weed as my companions. Peace brother.

The biggest scam is not having a camp chair review from Kyle!😀 Yep, the polycro ground sheets a waste.

Wait. Seriously? You’ve never had the guy who walked and just chose violence? There was a dude sectioning the AT who came up to a shelter one night when I was there with about six other hikers. He told us that we had called it a day too early, that everyone’s gear was shit. “That pack is shit. That sleeping pad is too heavy. Bear can? Literally no one carries a bear can on the AT (ummmm, demonstrably wrong due to the evidence in front of you). That food we were eating for breakfast? Awful. You can NEVER hike the whole AT with that food. Don’t worry about what you like. It’s all about cal per gram. Omg, Brooks? You are hiking in BROOKS? Those are for street running. Altras are so shit and overhyped.” Dude went on and on and on. One guy eventually told him to calm the eff down and he was like, “um, I’ve been sectioning the AT for YEARS now. Im just trying to help you since you guys CLEARLY need the advice.” We kept crossing paths for the week he was on trail and he was like, “you still have that --? Ha. You’ll end up switching that wayyyyyy before you hit PA.” Carried my Ursack the whole trail. Never changed any of my big stuff. ❤ Dick. ❤

Seam seal is the biggest scam listed. Just seam seal the damn tent at the factory and adjust your price accordingly, the buyer won't know in the end, but they will have a tent that is waterproof.

I think what Phil was talking about or at least how I feel is you can't get a good review from a product if you know the person is being incentivized by that product company. I have been in the fitness industry for years and I stopped counting the amount of times that guys were pushing a supplement and talking like it was the best thing since sliced bread only to go to another company and do the same thing about their competing product.

I paid $120 for a new (never used) LiteFighter 2 person tent worth $535 and bought the additional stuff sack for $85 to attach to my pack. It incudes a full bug net, rain fly, patch kit, stakes, and poles.

It has to be sleeping bag temperature ratings especially since a lot of bags have the survival temp in the name. Nobody cares about the temperature they will survive with only frostbite at. Give the temp most people will be comfortable at and not have to search to find it.

People need to think about the gear we had back in the ‘70s - twice as heavy and half as functional - yet we got along just fine; stop trying to be perfect and just enjoy your trip!

I sew for a living. I made for myself a 12’ dia. 3/5 geodesic dodecahedron tent. The footprint fits inside of a 10’x10’ square. It wasn’t cheap to make and took 24 hours to sew. Weights 17lbs. I charge $60/hr labor. That’s $720 right there. Granted I’m not 12 living under my sewing machine at night. Learn to sew. Then judge. Also, sewing ultra light fabric requires a learning curve and a quality sewing machine.

With Susie I think what may have happened is that someone noticed the lack of needed gear and recommended to have something. Wither it be warmer clothing or a non walmart tent that leaks. I cannot say for sure since I wasn't there and the lack of context. I never noticed anyone on the trail stop, look at me with disguist, and tell me my cheap gear should be burn and replaced with 600 dollar gear.

Yo, thanks for using my scam! 😂 - hikesoup

Dyneema is expensive material. As someone that just got into making their own gear dyneema is not cheap, even for the big brands, plus labor, etc. I get why zpacks are expensive. I'd never buy one but I get it. I'm sure their profit margins are dumb, but I can see why a tent costs 600 doll hairs.

the concept of "overpriced" items is not the best viewpoint. If people buy it, so be it. Market takes care of the prices.

$500 Gore-Tex jackets. Basically, none of the breathable fabrics keep you dry when you're hiking hard in temperate weather. In recent years I've been using $30 jackets from high-street outdoor chains and they've performed just as well. If you shop around you can find examples that are well designed and cut and use decent fabrics, at well under 1/10th the price of the fancy brands.

Not cool to dis on someone’s gear! If it’s not a safety concern if you don’t have something nice to say don’t say anything.

I bought a backpack that wasn't seam sealed and it was a pain to do it myself. Never again will I buy a hiking product that isn't seam sealed. Definitely a scam if a company isn't seam sealing their products.

For me the biggest scam is the ultralight concept. Why compromise your survival by packing half a razor blade instead of the whole knife? Might as well leave it at home and flint nap yourself a knife. Why cut the handle off your toothbrush? Might as well just leave it at home and use your finger with some toothpaste or feather a birch twig with your flint napped knife you made. I get wanting to get your pack weight down as much as possible but why sacrifice functionality to save a few grams? A pack 15lbs or less is what I personally carry for a DAY HIKE. My backpacking pack is typically between 25-30lbs give or take a couple pounds. Yes I want to drop a few more pounds but without sacrificing functionality or comfort. My goal is to get as close to 20llbs as possible.

Calling me out on scamming myself. I’ve now purchased three rain coats. $70, a thrifted one for $15, another one for $86. Coulda just bought a goretex one by now 🤦🏾‍♀️

Everyone talks about cutting the brush in half when you can cut the end off and Carry and metal straws to use as a handle...

Replying to Mathias's comment in the video: Zpacks products are made in the USA, rather than being manufactured outside of the country. This allows us to offer job opportunities to the people in our community and do our part in strengthening the economy. We also use only the best ultralight materials available.

Ula can carry a bear can as well as hyperlight can carry a can horizontal if you get the size

The real differences between expensive and inexpensive gear, is generally weight. Followed by fit and finish.

Alot of people cry about the price of hiking gear but waste money on other stuff like alcohol, cars, fashionable clothes etc etc. If hiking is your number 1 passion and you spend a good amount of time in the outdoors, dropping a few grand on your gear is peanuts. Like make a few sacrifices, pack your lunch, cook at home, skip Starbucks. Like maybe you just have far too many other hobbies?

LoL, one of the funniest scenes in the AWITW movie is when Katz tells Bryson he hurt the gear nerd's feelings when he told him he didn't care about his backpacking equipment.

I got a Granite Gear 50L pack that is at the 2 lb mark(32 oz) at a third of the cost. Honestly it is a good pack. To those that say it's not waterproof. All I do is add a pack liner at only a few grams weight penalty.

I think the biggest scam is the sites that tell you which gear you really need and why you need it instead of just talking about the gear. I am not talking about then suggesting a tent or trekking poles, but the ones that say you need this kind of tent and this kind of trekking poles only to find out it leads back to the site shop itself.

Hike the AT in 21"> Loved my Hyperlite Pack! With that said I did buy 3 Hyperlite pods to keep my self organized, those were $60 each which I thought was CRAZY expensive! Looked at the tents but they were are ARE outrageously expensive> Went with a Big Agnes FlyCreek HV UL2 which I absolutely loved! Keep Kicking Tail with the Channel and SUBS Kids!

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The best rucksacks in history were made by Alpine Designs of Colorado. They had an indestructible shoulder strap attachment with clevis pins connecting pack, internal stays, and strap. When my first one finally wore out after 40 years of hard use, I scoured the internet and found a replacement by merging two used packs. Backpacks with sewn shoulder attachments are junk that fails as are backpacks with zippers. The best full-sized internal-frame backpacks were made by Gregory. I got an early garbage can-style Gregory pack when the company was still owned by a man named Gregory. The design has never been surpassed. The backpack market is like the safety razor market: full of trendy "innovations" that are only innovative ways to make money off the trend-driven unwary.

biggest scam is saying that a quilt is totally different than an unzipped sleeping bag.

You have to understand, a long time ago we were "ultralighting" and many guys didn't want the added 1oz of seam sealing. It adds an ounce or more of weight to most tents. Tarptent didn't even offer seam sealing option originally. I have slept in old school tarptents (before they even offered seam sealing), and they barely dripped anything and it was usually in one or two spots. I woke up dry but yes the floor was wet. The bag/quilt/pad did a lot to stop small drips from a leaking seam.

Biggest scam is that retro backpacking gear isn't ever available so we could backpack like it is 1900.

Part of the premium associated with ZPacks tents, etc. is that fact of their manufacture in the United States. Personally, I'm willing to pay that premium to assure my gear isn't made in sweatshop conditions and to keep resources in local communities. Admittedly, I have the resources to make that possible, and I recognize not everyone can afford that level of financial expenditure.

The double coated silicone tents have to be seam sealed by hand, there is no other way to sea seal them, so you either do it yourself or pay the company to do it.

There are a lot of snobby people about gear but I don't think they usually say it to your face.

If you think seam sealing is overpriced, do it yourself to find out how long it takes, then figure out how much it costs a business owner to pay someone to do it. Or they could seam seal everything and just up all of their prices by about 50 bucks.

my HMG bag is pretty good but i wouldnt buy it new, i got it from an REI garage sale for $200, basically unused. removable frame and large outside storage are pretty nice. has definitely held up better to thorns and sharp rocks than some of my other, lighter, packs. no patching needed yet and at over 1000 miles easily, mostly desert

The ubiquity of trail gear marketed as waterproof far exceeds true water-shedding ability of said gear..It is true that the seasonal rangers go from camp to camp insulting your lucky Camp Trails pack.

I like Ray Jardine's point regarding buying "name brand" gear.... He doesn't buy name brand gear... he would rather make his own. Now this is coming from an old grumpy hiker that has never been able to afford a $600 1 person tent. In 2000, I rewalked Colin Fletcher's 1000 Mile Summer ( Mexico to Oregon along the east side of California, NOT THE PCT) and used gear that was a good/great value. Yes... I acquired a Dana pack, but my bivy was a $40 SLUMBERJACK (if I recall correctly) NOT the $200 name brand. It worked just fine with a little fine-tuning. I did spend some money on my sleeping gear though as I found I can be a Grumpy Hiker when I don't get a good night sleep... but the rest of my gear was very affordable (CHEAP). My thinking has always been, my body will adapt to the weight I carry IF I slowly strengthen up for my hikes. I find myself laughing when I see some hiking clown worrying about "Ounces/grams" when they are 40 pounds overweight!!! Ease into your hike, don't do a marathon approach. Start slow and if you are a little heavy (either in gear or in gut) take short days and rest in the beginning and you usually will pickup the miles as you get into a good groove. I lollygagged the whole way.... never made it a race. Some days were 20+ milers and other days I sat and cried all day (wife decided the boyfriend was more important) seriously though... the trail dictates the mileage each day. When I came off the WEST side of White Mountain east of Bishop, standing along the ridge at 12,000' thinking, well, the valley floor is at about 4,000 ft so that leaves about 8,000 all down hill!!!! Gee how long can THAT take.... a day at the most??? WRONG I walked out to Chalvant Valley Burger stand about 2-3/4 days later and it was the FREAKING WORSE 3 DAYS OF THE 6 MONTH HIKE!!!! Fletcher didn't care for it either and suggested never to do it... Being an old school hiker, and carrying a LOT of water (Death Valley/Saline Valley) and food/gear resupplies being 2-3 weeks apart, my pack weight many times was bumping a ridiculous 80 pounds. The PCT is more like hiking at Disneyland compared to stomping through Death Valley and onto the Inyo/Whites with no one around for weeks. I did get used to the weight.... when I was in Bridgeport I guessed my pack weight at 50-55 lbs.... NOPE it was 81 or 83 (its been 23 years ago). And like I said your body can/will adjust..... to the adventure IF you just start slow and steady. When I started The WALK in 2000, I hadn't hiked in almost 2 years, and NEVER did anymore than a 5-10 miler. I went from Washington State balmy winter of 40 degrees to Mexico at mid-high 90's. Darkish days to NEW YORK BRIGHT days. High moisture to VERY little in the 3 day drive down. Talk about a complete shock to one's body!!! YIKES!!!!!!! So back to expensive gear.... NOPE, not needed. It would be better to buy used gear that is made very well, then to buy cheap, but whatever you buy, make sure it will do the job!!! Again, the "Cheapy" Slumberjack brand lasted the whole way and then 2 more seasons afterwards. One last thing that is VERY important.... I take excellent care of my gear. I have friends who treat their gear like gorillas in heat. They can trash the toughest of gear in seconds. I've sat and laughed my butt off watching Ernie, the Idiot, accidentally catch his stove on fire (over pressured) and then in his panic burn a good size hole in his $350 tent and $250 sleeping bag. Also, I've watched MANY times sparks from a campfire settle on the best of tent flys. That goes for expensive fishing poles as well I might add.... So... like Kyle said... buy gear that can keep you SAFE.... and.... if you are like Ernie the Idiot.... stay home and take up bowling!!!

This is a reverse hiking scam. Men’s dress socks are extremely expensive and the exact same weight as what I think of as a liner sock. Light hiking socks are much less expensive and made of better materials and are definitely more durable.

Those flip-flops look look ultralight with all the holes cut out. Sweet!

Hey Kyle, what sun hoodie did you wear early in the video? Thanks

I didn't think much of UL gear but then my buddy let me use his pack and tent. Sub 20lbs when im used to 35lbs was huge. I could have been sub 15 but i like my luxury items and enjoy the extra water.

Biggest scam is the backpacking trend. Like any trend it fosters competitiveness and it has sucked the fun and purpose out of backpacking and being outdoors over the past 15 years. I'm not talking about UL gear alone. It's anything that has fostered a "look at me" moment and that can be most things talked about on this and every other outdoor YT channel since YT began.

The hyperlite Tee Pee has to be the biggest waste of money… If you’re going ultralight, I think the Durston Xmid pro may be the best ultralight tent out there. I’m planning on buying one soon.

If someone told me my gear was crap I’d tell them “I don’t give a fuggidy fug fug about your opinion”!

I use a Hyperlite tent + liner. Actually the one you pictured. I've used it plenty including muddy riverbank camping during kayaking. Is pricey but I haven't regretted the purchase for a nano-second. I also have the SW 3400 backpack. That's what I don't like. No matter what it swings on my back like a bell. Just ordered the 2023 Waymark 50l so I'll know in June if that was a good investment.

I completely agree about the seam sealing scam...MSR ahmmmm.

‘Ultralight’ gear is expensive, because the marketing has turned it into a buzzword that demands a premium. Companies are getting away with charging more for less. Nylon and Aluminum have been used as tent materials since the 70’s but now it’s considered a premium fabric, lol. And the less denier, the more expensive it is. SilPoly is a perfect example. Previously it was believed to be an inferior tent material and cost less. Now it’s considered as a premium option over nylon…shitbrained. These companies just be selling ya’ll on the flavor of the week and convincing you it cost more than it did last week.

If I want comfort, safety and a good night's sleep, I can carry 5 kg. more (what's the point of hiking if you can't sleep well and feel more tired the next day) Super light tents it's a circus in the forest 😀 Good luck in cold, windy and buggy conditions and have a cool hike 🏕️

3:00 gear snobs are THE WORST.

They can turn anything into consumerism

I don't mind having to seam seal my tents myself. i use to buy mid-point tents and the seam tape would often be crooked or just botched when done by a machine. Its a job much better done by hand and I'm willing to pay for the service.

The biggest scam in backpacking isn't gear, it's gear pricing. High end brand markups are in the hundreds of percent and that's just crazy. That isn't to say you're only paying for a name, though. The gear is absolutely better. A Naturehike tent is a good tent, but it is *not* a Marmot or a Big Agnes tent, never mind a Z-packs or Durston. A Decathlon backpack is a good backpack, but it is *not* a Gregory or an Osprey. Fortunately, Naturehike tents and Decathlon backpacks are good enough for 90% of people who buy tents and backpacks, so they don't need to spend $400 on something that only cost $20 to produce.

At 62, I finally replaced all the crappy gear I used for decades. This gear will last the rest of my life and be handed down to my kids.

$600 for a single person tent, NO… get fucked! Signed all of us.