It wasn't even that long ago, like it's not as if there is no historical record, he can't even say we don't know who was there and you definitely can't white wash it
oh great, you're leaving more comments like this... stop trying to discount her efforts because of this fact that is fuckin ridiculous and insulting :| @@Andrei-sg7lu
It's crazy whiplash to find out that not only is Roland Emmerich gay, but he's a gay man that intentionally whitewashed the history of the Stonewall uprising for his movie. I love learning new things from Evasive
It is a tragedy that Ray and Marsha in this movie act like they barely know each other. In reality they lived together and referred to each other as mother and daughter. They were absolutely inseparable.
The fact that Roland Emmerich, a gay man himself, doubled down by saying that Stonewall was a white event and defending his use of a white main character in order to attract straight audiences is insulting to say the least. This man should have never been given permission to make a movie about Stonewall.
did you even watch the video?? this is such a non-point. yes they were but it was mostly people of color. and this movie misrepresents that.@@Andrei-sg7lu
maybe i'm being nit-picky, but does it rub anyone else the wrong way that they named ray, ray? the character is based off sylvia rivera and that's her deadname 😭
i knew this movie was bad, but that scene with the trans woman sexually abusing the main character, what was the point of that???? what does that have to do with stonewall at all???? what's the point of that character??? that felt so gratuitous, weird, vile, out of pocket, offensive, awful!! seriously, what the hell
"My movie is the definition of politically correct! It has trans people in it! Yeah they're played by cis male actors and they're portrayed as violent, old, ugly, creepy, grapists, or being viciously brutalized for the purpose of misery porn but they exist!" - Emmerich probably
That scene made no sense ! This was a time where (young) queer people had to do sex work to live, and it was probably closeted rich dudes paying for it. Not imaginary rich trans ladies. It feels like the point of the scene was to give cishet people someone to blame when they start feeling guilty about history. It’s gross.
the way they portrayed that trans woman in that scene…like, i had to actually pause. that was really bad. i’m surprised not many people are talking about how awful that was. i’m glad i didn’t actually watch the movie.
yeah fuck this movie for real for that scene, as if we dont have enough movie trans people who are 1) evil and/or molesters and 2) more one-dimensional than my flat hank hill ass
they had a total of four trans women and all of them were treated terribly 😞 one was just comic relief every once in a while, two were the stereotype of being predatory, and one was just constantly being beaten up and harassed like some sort of trauma porn
It has brought me to tears that they didn't hire trans people to play trans characters. As a trans actress who can't find a job despite having over a decade of experience with international projects behind and is discriminated against a lot when it comes to working or even finding a place to pay for, it breaks my heart that people won't even hire us to play US. To represent OUR history. :(
It's called acting. Straight people have acted as all types of sexualities and genders. Gay people have acted as straight people. That's what acting is! You can't gate keep just because you aren't a success. Live with it.
@@Rage_Harder_Then_Relax this person just told you they struggle to get work as a trans person but youre out here still defending cis people taking trans roles? disgusting
@@Rage_Harder_Then_Relax it just so happens that I used to be a success until I came out. It justo so happens that queer people face discrimination in all kinds of aspects of their lives where straight, cisgender people don't, just like it happens with race, neurodivergencies and disabilities, which is not fair is it ?
What I heard is that it wasn't necessarily a brick that inspired the riot it was the fact that some cops threw a butch lesbian on the ground and roughed her up so she screamed at the crowd to don't just stand there and actually do something to help her EDIT: just rewatched the New York Times video about Stonewall where they interviewed several people who were present during the event and many of the interviewees agreed that the rioters formed not one but MULTIPLE Rockette style kick lines while facing down the cops
Does it really matter at the end of the day? Stonewall is part of the queer mythology now, as anything we think it to be is likely waaaaay more than what actually happened. It was not the start or most crucial point of gay rights either, just a very loud one. I personally just don't see the point of figuring out who threw the first brick (or whatever else led to escalation).
@fatfurie Oh for sure, we can say that this is most likely wrong. However, does it matter if Marsha P. Johnson threw a brick or if the cops abused a butch lesbian?
@@tigersily i was slapping myself over how easy that would have been but the director didnt see it and instead went with whatever 'i'm too mad to love anyone' means
when I was a freshman in college my first acting professor played one of the cops in this movie - not one featured in any big scene but I think he appears briefly on camera in a single scene. he swore by method acting and said that he stayed in character every day for shoot and seemed very proud to have made the actors uncomfortable. he was replaced by a different professor the next year and asked everyone in my class to sign a petition to get him hired back lol
That's genuinely hilarious to hear as somebody who went to a conservatory that taught you couldn't act if you had to rely on method and were, in fact, just delusional 💀💀💀
This inversely reminds me of Matilda, and Danny DeVito, who played Matilda’s Abusive father, BUT made sure the young child actress knew it was an act and was VERY doting to her on set, when off camera. Saying you are “method acting” as a cop and then potentially harassing queer people to “be more authentic for the role” is. . . so outrageously not fooling anybody, it’s almost laughable.
I think its also important to point out the absence of transmasculinity in the film. Storme wasn't just the only Lesbian in the film, she was the only instance of masculine GNC as she was a drag king (who so often gets overlooked because people don't think transmasculinity exists in any part of the masculine GNC and trans spectrum) I know one Papi Rossa was talking about how femmes always struggle and mascs get everything, and that is true...for some LGBTQ+ groups. Trans mascs, trans men, masc sapphics, and drag kings get so much shit that is never acknowledged, not by our erased history, not by LGBTQ+ people today, and definitely not by films like this, and we are rarely ever supported in fighting against it simply because of how much is erased that no one even knows we need the support.
This is so true, I regret not pointing it out yeah you’re right. Not a single character anywhere in this movie that could be considered trans masc or trans masc adjacent. It’s erasure, pure and simple
Yeah , erasure of the masculine side of the community has been a problem this past decade . I have seen people call masculine trans people ,gay men , sapphics/lesbians and drag queens as "straight passing" ,"cis passing" or that they are not in touch with their "gayness/transness" . No wonder this both sides are so different.
This movie is wrong in ever form and full of erasure, ill give you that. That being said, trans mascs have talked over me my whole adult life. I know several yt ones in particular who became pigs and/or military terrorists for our oppressors, literal traitors to the community. The only trans person that ever SA'd me was a trans man. Like, its really hard to work with trans mascs when so many of yall perpetuate the same male violence and patriarchal attitudes of the cis.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure Roland Emmerich is the most financially successful gay director in Hollywood right now-Independence Day, Godzilla, 2012, and Day After Tomorrow-and his movies are the most heterosexual things ever
I know you’re joking. But.. imagine if, at the halfway point, aliens had invaded or something truly crazy happened. Like, if it’s not going for historical accuracy (and it’s directed by Roland Emerich), having the Stonewall patrons fight off an alien invasion is a movie I’d like to see.
the fact that this movie was written by a cis gay white man and is rewriting history so that stonewall was heralded by a cis gay white man 🤨 i dont think that or the lack of women in this movie is a coincidence
"Is she dead?" "she IS dead" "nooo..." "Judy is dead babygirl" why was the delivery of this back and forth the funniest thing ive heard in weeks, i havent stopped giggling for like 5 minutes. 'judy is dead babygirl' is making into my lexicon i can FEEL it
REAL this was so funny... this and the part where the zodiac discussion distracts them from the gay se x scene are golden. If i had the skills i would want to make an animatic of those 😆
I've not seen this movie (why would I) but it feels like Emmerich should have just made a movie about a gay man in 60s New York, not about Stonewall. Forcing Stonewall to link into this weird plot regarding the club owner assaulting someone being stopped by the police raid feels really weird, Emmerich. It feels like Stonewall was tacked onto a drama film about a fictional character, it should just be about the ficitonal character.
@@christopherb501 Totally agree. Not every queer person in NYC was at Stonewall that night, but they heard about it. A story following someone on the peripherals of such an event, witnessing the impact from the sidelines, would still have been a story worth telling.
@@jijitters It would have been so much more interesting to write a story about the white main character realizing that he isn't the center of the universe. If it was a story about a white, cis gay guy grappling with his own privileged, conflict-adverse behaviour, to the point where he misses out on Stonewall because he'd rather be invisible and "respectable"...I think there's validity in a movie exploring that perspective. Yet it wasn't that, and they had him throw the first brick instead
Wow that was horrific. Rey was great ofc, I agree. But the whitewashing, the absense of lesbians, the rampant disgusting transphobia... It was worse than I could have imagined. And considering it came out *after* the legalization of gay marriage in the US and the reworking of the WPATH... Absolutely atrocious. And yes I agree, it should have been about Rey. Our girl was the star, and was treated horribly. Shameful. 😓
@@dasani.like.the.water.WHAT my jaw just dropped! I knew the name Sylvia Rivera and that “Ray” was based on her but I figured it was short for Rivera.. If it was literally any other name on the planet then some of this could have been chalked up to a rich gay white cis male obliviousness, but that was a goddamn choice.
it's crazy because the movie is kind of like the modern-day Stonewall: passionately trying to capture the history of a deeply personal and powerful civil rights movement in American history but, at its core, best serving as a tourist attraction that doesn't connect people to the reality of the events that actually took place
Or similarly to actual events that happened after stonewall, the main focus was on the gay and lesbian people and they shoved the trans people under the bus because they saw their chance at being accepted
@@thezachman1I agree with your intention here, but I’m pretty sure if you asked people to name one person who was at Stonewall the first name on that list would be Marsha P Johnson. I can personally only name three: MPJ, Sylvia Rivera, and Stormé DeLarverie. All gender nonconforming, POC and/or women. I think the recent effort to give credit were it’s due has been pretty successful, honestly (this terrible movie excluded).
The fact that the director said he wanted "a transgender" to play Marsha P Johnson is a clear example of why he should NOT have been directing a film about the Stonewall uprising.
_"I'm a gay man, so I know exactly how to make this movie about gay liberation, even though I have never made a movie about something like this before"_ -Roland Emerich
There is zero doubt in my mind Roland Emmerich thought that guy gave the best audition. He couldn't tell who gave the best performance between a person and a tomato.
where are the lesbians in this movie. like there was no mention of them. the story goes that a black butch lesbian was being assaulted and shouted to the crowd to do something, and that inspired the violence. the historical inaccuracy is palpable even to people who don’t know very much about stonewall.
@@salem-01 but it’s better than the lukewarm rep they made of the trans characters that were in here… like they portray some of the trans women so horribly.. I don’t wanna imagine what would happen to the trans mascs.
@NavieNavira massively fucked up to tell someone “hey, stop complaining about being erased from history! At least you aren’t being portrayed badly.” Erasure is still bad and massively harmful and it’s something that’s done real lasting damage to AFAB queer people even within the queer community. Please stop telling people to just shut up and be happy with silencing and erasure.
If they wanted to make it about a white cis straight acting guy they could have made it about Dave Van Ronk, a real guy who was an anarchist folk singer and saw the riot start from a diner across the street and immediately ran over to join in.
If you’re talking about who I think you’re talking about, you forgot to mention the best part. He didn’t even know why they were rioting, he just saw them and immediately joined
Tbf fair all Emmerich plots have this beautifully done self-erasure feature, Emmerich's only redeeming work, a biopic titled, "Eternal Sunshine of the Smoothbrain."
So you're telling me that the man who believes icon Shakesqueer didn't write his own plays because he was poor and effeminate made a movie that is essentially revisionist history about queer people? Color. Me. Shocked.
Can I just say, the fact that the actor they got didn't even ATTEMPT to emulate the way Marsha P. Johnson actually spoke in real life, alongside her just being comedy relief is so insulting. This whole movie is just so insulting tbch. The audacity Roland Emmerich had to defend and double down on this. 😐🙃
@@strawberryqueen0382 HAH! A wonderful suggestion! Or alternatively, get the queer elders all good and liquored up and they can sing along to the music while watching the film. If they're drunk enough, RU-vid's copyright system won't recognize their singing as singing at all! (Because technically speaking, covers are still a breaking of copyright, sadly. There is still every possibility of getting a copyright strike for covering a song.)
as a non-american who only really heard about stonewall through memes about who threw the first brick, thank you for including info about the actual event at the start!
Uhm, I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but this comes off as you implying: "I'm thankful Marsha's dead so she doesn't have to see this.", and I hope that's not what you meant, you might wanna reword that. 😅
@@flummoxedgiles I don't know what this person means because I'm not inside their head, honestly I try to have faith in Humanity but it just so happens so people want me to die for simply being born the way I am, so, ... you know, it's difficult, especially on the Internet because people tend to lose their filter behind the shield of their screens. 💙💖🤍💖💙 And I mean that's *literally* what they're saying: they're glad that she can't see it, and why can't she see it? She's dead. The phrase needs to stop being used like this, it's so apathetic, "I'm glad [Insert name of murder victim.] can't see this", *like what*? 😨 You can understand my point at least *slightly* can't you? 🖤♠️💜🤍
@@Hunter_VanderMatthews it's not "glad she can't see it" though. it's "glad she didn't have to." you can safely infer a wayyy different intent from that. think of it this way, if she were still alive, the sentiment would likely be "i hope she hasn't and won't ever watch this movie"
@@EvasiveOneIt feels like Roland got comfy in the closet and when he come out he took it with him everywhere. Cause no way a gay man who was an adult during the AIDS endemic could be this sheltered till the 2010s
completely unrelated to the video but i really do love how in all of these videos evasive always brings in little snacks for the various queer ppl being tortured for her content. i too would watch horrible films in exchange for something to chew on while i suffered
It’s impressive how this movie, even when filtered through the lens of this review/reaction video felt the most uncomfortable and cringe-inducing for me out of all of the movies that you covered before in this series. Also make a video where you’re forcing gay men to watch Boat Trip (2002)
Why does finding out this was a passion project make me hate it more? Its like Ronald made up his own historical fanfiction self-insert and placed him inside the Stonewall riots and I hate it.
his willingness to be ignorant and insisting that stonewall was a white event and that anyone who says otherwise is the ignorant party is SO insane 😭😭 like thats such blatant racism
I hate that inside a sh*tty offensive movie about Stonewall, Roland managed to showcase the plight of the fems so well. I credit that to the writer and actor, but like, where is our best character film!
I find it quite interesting that a movie about Stonewall trying to sell itself to straight audiences had scenes with queer characters trying teach each other how to blend in with the rest of the world. Might as well had the end credits soundtracked by Michael Jackson singing “Keep it in the closet.”
@@Andrei-sg7lu My comment is more of a statement that maybe the director could’ve taken the lesson from the scenes in the script and maybe not tried to repeat all that and not placated the straight audience. But yeah I’m stupid and don’t know what year the movie took place!
I did NOT realize how recent this movie was, for some reason I thought it was from the early 2000's, it's too recent to make some of these choices lmao
"Danny Winters" is such a default white guy name, it sounds like the name of a side character I'd have written aged 7 whose sister was called something like Emerald Ruby Quartz Winters the Third
Ramona and Beezus?? Oh my gosh I haven't thought of that movie in forever. I bust out laughing hearing it. YES THAT'S WHERE I RECOGNIZE HER FROM THANK YOU!
i feel like roland wanted to make gay titanic by putting fictional characters into an historical event but it doesnt hit well when the story is about a specific group of people (and their struggle). its like if someone made a movie about rosa parks and the main character was the person who sat next to her
I was going to make a silly comment but I just genuinely love your videos. ❤ as a queer person, it’s hard to find content to connect with these days. Queer people discussing movies in an unserious way, that’s what I’m talking about. And you also got plenty of laughs from me. Thanks for making things like this!
They still abused the shit out of their LGBT patrons, reportedly keeping the bars in shit conditions and hiking up the prices of alcohol more than it was worth. The mafia broadly speaking did not respect queer people, they just offered a service and gays took it cause they had no other option
I get what you mean, but the mafia only created gay bars because queer people were easy to exploit. You can have a dingy, ratty place with overpriced watered-down alcohol in broken glasses because it's not like queer people have somewhere better to go, right? These bars were places to suck money out of vulnerable people sadly :(
@@randomusername1735 Eh whatever their motivation was, they did a good thing. It says so much about America that organized crime was more inclusive and accepting than the government lol.
Stonewall wasn’t a movement it was an event, and important event, but an event. The queer rights movement started years even decades before stonewall. Stonewall was a racial diverse event for sure, but that shouldn’t be conflated with the rest of the movement. Most queer historians put the start of the gay liberation movement at Independence Hall in Philadelphia on July 4th, 1965, which was a point queer rights broke away from gay acceptance. Before that there were several large queer groups working towards gay acceptance. The majority of the figures before and after stonewall were white cis men and women. The reason? Money (white people had more money). There was also division in queer POC groups about whether they should focus on racial rights or queer rights (this also happened with women’s rights and it’s why white women are over represented in that movement).
@@gamingwhilebroken2355 although I was aware that the movement existed before stonewall, this really helped me understand it all better. Thank you for that
Even the poster for this movie baffles me because it looks unreasonably happy for the subject matter. It reminds me of one of those fake AI-generated offensive Pixar movie posters like "Chernobyl" or "'Caust."
@@morbidsearch “If I had a nickel for every time Roland Emmerich directed a movie about New York events that were violent, I’d have two nickels which isn’t much but it’s weird that it happened twice”
Yah this confirms that you will find anything to get this movie on in the most patheticway possible. Scenery lighting is now an issue? (And that's WHO'S fault really???) I wonder what will an issue in 3 to 4 years from now, or is it just active desperation to find wrongs where there are none when you're desperate to make someone hurt like you hurt.
@@lukaluukaa it’s, sighhh RENT is complicated. I personally dislike it because so much of it feels like an empty rebellion, the main characters are largely unsympathetic and sometimes downright awful, yet we’re supposed to root for them. I was also a high school theater kid and I heard WAY too much of RENT and Moulin Rouge, so I got too tired of them to even consider them guilty pleasure
You know this is a bad movie when the original Quantum Leap, season 4, episode 12, “Running for Honor - June 11, 1964” did a better job explaining what Stonewall was, even if it was a very brief mention at the end.
I remember hearing about this movie way back in high school in our gsa. We were all a bunch of teenagers who were still learning the history of Stonewall and I just remember the people in charge of the club ragging on the film when the trailer came out. Somehow this movie is worst than teenage me could've imagined
Lmao. I remember when this came out. The trailer had so much backlash that it just kind of fizzled out. 😂 To be fair though, I’m an asexual woman who has limited knowledge of queer history. So reading the angry comments on that trailer gave me a lot of useful knowledge about an event that I didn’t know much about. So thanks Roland Emerch. 👍🏼
Honest to god the biggest shock is that the man behind Independence Day is not a straight man. Like, if he’s not straight what even is life? Has anyone taken a closer look at Michael Bay? What else am I unaware of?
I have enjoyed every movie group youve had, but THIS panel right here is without a doubt the most entertaining group of all time. Bring them back for another movie!
I decided to watch this with my trans friend, and we were both disgusted by the portrayal of trans people and making it JUST about gay cis white man like come on, bro 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Hey just want you to know that your content has played a roll in helping me to deal with my bigotry. I use to be a raging Anti SJW saying all the dumb stuff like get woke go broke and called people horrible things like groomers and when ever there was a gay/trans or any minority represented in a movie I always thought it was part of a so called woke agenda. Anyway I have done alot of soul searching these past three years exposing myself to other types of people and trying to understand because before I was miserable and full of hate due to my ignorance but thankfully I am no longer that way and watching your videos and just seeing people from the LGBTQ community having fun,being funny while also hearing their perspectives on these films has really helped. So thank you
I really appreciate how you’re editing allows for the events to breathe. Nothing is overstated. Some RU-vidrs would overplay certain events and hyperbolize. But you plainly state the facts and allow them to be as jarring as they actually would be. You had nothing up, because the story is already insane on its own. Please keep it up.
You should make gay people watch Q force! It was that gay animated show that was absolutely BOTCHED and MURDERED by netflix's marketing team. They marketed the show to straight people and made it look like a shallow animation made by straight people for straight people about what they THINK queer people are like, but the actual show is genuinely REALLY good. I'm so mad that the marketing was botched because the target audience turned away from it after the marketing stunt.
