To me a key difference is these cars is that they were made on an assembly line by people as a disposable product to be used and eventually replaced. Now that they are considered rolling art and collectable it makes sense to make it nicer and longer lasting.
The key words in this post are "to be used". In other words cars were built for people to drive and enjoy not to be judged in a show contest. Safety improvements such as dual circuit brakes and disc brakes are absolutely necessary for older cars to be driven safely in today's traffic. Other items such as hardened valve seats and radial tires are obviously not original but are also necessary as well. I am obviously not a member of the "100 per cent original" crowd.
I am an old guy with an unrestored C2, and I really enjoy listening to this young man. Every time I do, I come away knowing more about this iconic car than I did before seeing and listening.
My friend, I don't think you need to apologize for any of the work you do on those 'Vettes! I rather like that you chose to do upgrades when you are restoring them. Thunder On!!!
Dude, great video! After owning our '64 for 32 years, we (my twin brother and I) finally finished the restoration. To a non-NCRS judge the car looks stock. We added dual circuit, power-assisted four wheel disc brakes, power steering, radial tires and a MSD ignition. Our car is show quality, but is meant to be a driver. Please keep encouraging your clients to make these safely/comfort/reliability upgrade....
Restoration of a C2. 1965 Coupe I've owned for nearly 50 years. I'm doing it the way I like it. Painted frame, stainless steel brake lines and fuel line. Little changes but a lot of detail to make it pop. Loving the project! Thanks for the great video!
Your care and quality of restoration is fantastic. There are very few NCRS 100 point cars. It is the owners choice of the type of restoration you do. As an NCRS judge I would bet your cars would receive an NCRS Top Flight Award. A Top Flight means a score of 94 percent or better. Even a total deduct for base coat paint would mean losing about two percent which still leaves four percent to lose. The standard for paint is it appears to be factory correct. Any base coat paint job can be made to resemble factory enough to get a relatively small deduct for paint. I’m not pointing fingers at you when I say Corvette “experts” who denigrate the NCRS process without really understanding what they are talking about are misguided. If you own a classic Corvette join NCRS and have it judged. You will learn a lot about the car and meet new friends with similar interest. Then it is your choice whether to make changes to your car to make it more correct. It is a hobby and a game and can be quite addictive. The important thing is these beautiful cars are being saved.
Thank you for taking the time to reply Greg! The general consensus among the NCRS crowd has always been positive about my work and enthusiasm for restoring these cars. Hopefully one day you find yourself in S FL and can pay me a visit! Either way, thank you for the insight and for checking out my channel.
There are actually many different types of competitions that are labelled "concours". Many clubs have categories for modified and driver cars. Here in the UK, clubs I know even have daily driver classes where the underside is not judged at all, only top and engine bay. Many judges also put a higher value on originality, even if it does come with some patina. We have all met certain examples of the interminable car snob, but in actual fact most clubs want to be inclusive, want to see the cars used and enjoyed and just want people to enjoy the cars.
I actually dig that one of the things you take so seriously is safety. I've never really been a car show guy, myself. The way I see it is if I'm gonna invest my money into a car then it's gonna get driven.
I've always been a stickler for originality on all of my C2s but saying that I agree with your approach 100% from what I've seen in your shop. Great work!!...
Don’t care about NCRS ratings or judges, I would rather have modern touches added. Wrong on purpose. Perfect. Keep up the great work, hope to get up to your showroom soon!
I agree with your justifications. Well said, and they do improve the car for driving purposes. That metallic light green is beautiful. Would look good with white or light green interior.
I have owned many NCRS & Bloomington Gold cars in the Past. But I agree 100% with what you are doing. You are really Preserving these Corvettes to last a long, long time. Kudos to you!!!!!!!!!
Without knowing your process of upgrades I used almost all of them when I built my '65 Roadster 19 years ago. I use calipers that have been stainless steel sleeved, I use a new-technology battery, I run radial tires and my car was painted with lacquer using clear lacquer for the final 3 coats of paint. My paint is not perfect at this point, but it still looks very good. I had my engine rebuilt using hardened valve seats and I run conventional 10W-30 oil. My clock has been upgraded to a quartz mechanism. It happens that my car came from the factory with power brakes and as a part of that brake package GM equipped power brake cars with dual circuit brake lines. Why they did not do that on manual brake cars, I can't answer. The downside is the 1965 master cylinder is hugely expensive. I was fortunate enough to have found a shop that rebuilds those master cylinders and I had it rebuilt rather than put a new-design master cylinder on my car. Great video - thank you!
I agree completely with everything you said especially the Borgenson steering box. I have installed one in my C 3 and it is the only way to go. Just working on the car now is more pleasant as there is no longer this leaking mess of hoses and ram cylinder. The steering feel is far better especially if you add lots of caster, the car points better and tracks better. All the other things that you mentioned just make good sense, to be able to enjoy driving the car is what it's all about.
I'm 50yo, I have a C5 and I'm looking at getting a C2. Specifically my Uncles 66. Everything you spoke about seems spot on for me. I want a drivers car and I could careless about some judge telling me it's not correct.
Impressed with the stunning work you do there! I've done most of your recommendations over the past 9 years to my 66 convertible matching number 300hp 327 car. Borgeson steering, Tremec 5sp, Vintage air, quartz clock, dual master cylinder, Edelbrock 8 injector MPI fuel injection with single plane original height aluminum intake to retain original oil tube and PCV, electronic Voltage regulator inside original cover, bluetooth radio and speaker system in rear compartment, and another important safety item - 3 point shoulder belts (no steering wheel face plants for me)
Another very well done video! Love the historical significance of NCRS, however I'm a restomod guy and won't apologize cause it's way way more fun! The answer is easy, buy more vettes!!
I predicted most of your list and completely agree. And you added a few I didnt consider. NCRS should have a restored/oem and restored/improved caregorories. And your would be the definition of restored/improved.
What your doing makes all the sense in the world. You are using technologies that are 50-60 years newer. Just makes sense to use the best available "If you are going to drive it", if you are going to park it and look at it do it old way...just remember when you do it won't last any better than it did the first time. Great channel!
I like the way you restore your C2s. If or when I get $100,000 to spend on a C2 coupe I’d like to purchase it from you guys at Horsepower Warehouse with all the modern amenities as I’d be getting it to drive it and enjoy it on the road.
NCRS is fine for the museum display but for true enjoyment a C2 must be drivenNCRS is great foe the museum and trailered car show C2 but corvette are to be enjoyed by driving them. Safety and reliability are paramount. Thank you for all you do for the corvette.
Couldn't agree more. I have a '63 Studebaker Avanti, and I've taken a similar approach to restomodding it -- all period-correct _looking_ but lots of performance and safety upgrades that no one would notice (and a few they would, like 3-point seatbelts and seats with headrests). _Definitely_ agree on the dual master cylinder. My car had already had that upgrade done when I bought it, and thank God, because one of the lines to the front brakes hadn't been secured properly, and as the years went by and it vibrated back and forth against the frame, wearing the line thinner and thinner over time. Then one day I had to stop suddenly, and the surge of pressure through the line ruptured it. The front disks which do most the stopping were just gone. The rear drums gave me just _barely_ enough stopping ability to avoid rear-ending the car ahead of me, but I did avoid the collision. I don'ty think I wast going fast enough that I would likely have been seriously injured, but who knows? I certainly would have incurred significant damage to my car. If I had still had the original single master cylinder, I would have had no brakes at all, and would have plowed right into the back of the car ahead of me.
completely agree. we have been building cars for 31 years and dealing with judges of all makes . we want our cars to look as nice as possible for as long as possible . stop better and always . Run better , be more comfortable to drive and so on. any top flight restoration is available but if the car is going to be driven its not preictal
you do all the things i would do and have done myself. this isnt 1966 anymore. some of that older stuff just isnt up to snuff. besides, who drives concourse cars anyway. beautiful work and great vids. thanks for the oil tip with cork gaskets. you sure are young to be working on this old stuff. would sure be nice to have gotten into this myself when i was young, and walk into a shop like this to "work" every morning.
I always thought that in 66 the duel master cylinder was offered as an option where as in 67 it was standard. Interesting and I love the stainless fuel and brake lines along with stainless exhaust without mandrel bends.Ha ha ha, the clocks never worked, lol. Nice upgrades, you got my vote. Your cars are built better for sure. I would rather have one of yours. WHAT, NO MOBIL 1, I would rather use that and change the gasket to accept it.
There was a time, not too long ago, that this was the norm in restoration. I recall the term “restomod.” It appeared stock but had updated components so the owner could DRIVE IT!!! For the purists, remember that? Driving a car? Not just putting it in a shop, on a trailer, at a show, back on the trailer, back to the shop…..
Man, I like the way you think. I'm saving my pennies and I'm savin' my dimes cuz I'm close to the point where I can buy me the first Vette I owned. A 66 fastback and the first thing I'm going to do is drivive it down to you to perform your magic I just witnessed in this vid!
I would add electronic ignition and electronic voltage regulator to my suggestions. They're simple and virtually invisible. The only one on Junior's list that I'm torn on is dual circuit master cylinder. I'd like to do it to my 63 but it's very obvious and not easy to go back to single at a later date. Edit: I also did aluminized exhaust on my car. Corvette Central has sets with the correct bends, just aluminized. Would've gotten stainless if they had it.
@@HorsepowerWarehouse yeah, thanks for posting this stuff. I'd love to have you restore my car because you have the same restoration mentality as me. The problem is I live in PA so that's quite a hike. Keep up the good content.
@@brianplay4758 delaware county. There's a few 63s around here that I've seen at car shows. Convertibles are affordable at least. Coupe pricing has shot up a lot in the last couple years.
Thanks for the info..I have a 64 coupe and am still learning about what is correct, although I have no desire to bring it to NCRS standards. I enjoy driving it too much!
If you're going to drive the car, I agree with all the upgrades. I drive mine and I'm in the process of doing all of these items keeping all of the old parts.
I have to stay with synthetic motor oil. I have a friend who was over the labs at a major oil company when synthetic oils came on the market. Their tests indicated such a dramatic improvement in every facet of protection, wear, etc. he became a big proponent of the synthetic variant for motor oils. Sorry about the cork gaskets but they're easier to replace than a worn out engine.
I'm a big fan of synthetics too. I bought a new truck in 1999 and changed the factory oil for synthetic. Ran it that way for 20 years and sold it to my dad. It's still going at 200k and the engine is just as tight as when it was new. Nothing has been changed on it other than oil and spark plugs.
I can relate to your opinion of synthetic oils. I was having an issue with my C3 Camaro. (please, no jokes) I was having a leak problem with the power steering pump. While complaining about the issue, the NAPA guy stressed that I go back and use the cheapest fluid available instead of the premium synthetic version. The leak disappeared. As for your cars - I wish I could afford one. My brother had a 72 big block convertible. It was this teenager's dream. I wish both were still here.
Never owned or restored a Corvette (I did paint a 1963 in Daytona Blue once). But I agree with all your points. I have done similar upgrades on my Buick restorations.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Furthermore, I think the NCRS point system should be reserved for ORIGINAL cars with factory original paint jobs ( you know, the kind that has 'orange peel'), etc., etc. I say that realizing that if NCRS had only factory original cars to judge, they'd be limited to new cars! Just because you repainted with one step lacquer 60 yrs later should not confer originality points. Restored to LOOK original is beautiful, but it ain't original, A 2023 Delco tartop is not a 1966 Delco tartop. By analogy, an original 1873 Colt Peacemaker in good original condition is worth WAY (tens of thousands) more than a reconditioned 1873, even if it was refinished exactly the way Colt did it. Just my opinion. By the way, what is your opinion regarding polyurethane vs rubber bushings?
use LED light bulbs whenever possible for marker and especially tail lights. Easier to see, and don't have as much heat. They make them that fit in the factory sockets, so no mods are needed. they also come on and go out (flash) quicker when the brake pedal is pushed so they catch your eye when they come on. These cars already have the handicap of no third brake light that most people are used to seeing when following a car. anything that can make these cars more visible from behind may save a costly crash. dash light conversion to LEDs is also good because they last longer. it is such a pain to change the incandescent ones.
Great video, happy I found this channel! Q - I've read the big blocks can really overheat. when you restore one do you make any upgrades or changes to address that issue?
Man I appreciate some of these touches. Now I need to "find" another couple thousand. LOL . Especially that sound deadening. I have tinnitus and hearing loss and I can't have a conversation in my C2. Side Pipes!
Great video…I think all of your upgrades are proven to be legitimate reasons for doing so. You place a lot of safety concerns on the mechanical components which make a lot of sense. I too would like to upgrade my single reservoir master cylinder to a dual and wonder who’s product you recommend for the conversion?
The problem with this is that you have to wait 6 plus minutes for him to get to the better disc brakes and dual master cylinder abd proportion vale.. These things are the kind of thing that should be put at the very beginning of the film so that knowledgeable viewers attention is grabbed. This will make him sound more knowledgeable as well, and more importantly get him more business and he will make more money! After all he is in business to make money. best Bruce Peek
If I had the money I would buy one of your restomods. I don't do car shows and I just want to drive a C2. The cork gasket and no synthetic oil surprised me.
Love pretty much every change you do. Question re: brakes: what do you typically do for brakes on a 63-64? Do you leave the drums and upgrade to a dual master cylinder, or do you convert to disc brakes? And re: oil: what brand/viscosity do you recommend? About to do the first oil change on my rebuilt '64 327/300 and debating about which oil to use. Thanks!
Honestly on the drum cars a dual circuit master is about as far as we will go. The 63 and 64 have their own personality versus the later years and we don't aim to ruin that. Driven HR5 is an awesome oil but any name brand conventional oil with a ZDPP additive will perform the same. Lucas makes the additive I prefer. Thanks for checking out my channel!
Do u do anything with the frame? Reweld it? Box in wear points? Put a metal plate behind steering box? What are your thoughts of electric headlight and wiper motors? Pete
They should have 2 categories, one for original and one for modern restoration. By only certifying original restorations they are encouraging you to not drive your car which is counterintuitive. Driving your car is what it’s for, it’s not a static display.
@@gregsimon1285 Beat me to it. I never intended to make my 63 an NCRS and was happy to see they will now recognize all of us who love the cars but know they can be improved upon.
@@Flying_Dollar_Motorsports Can see both lines of thought. But, give me your enhanced build for driver. BRAVO... IF I ever get a truly rare Corvette, maybe would want it NCRS perfect. Aside from that these improvements are a 10 in my book Brother...
NCRS: Where removing a perfectly good original but blemished part, and replacing it with a reproduction part made from pure Chinesium, gets a higher score. No thanks, not for me. Great info Junior. There might be some items I would consider for mine (in my dreams), like stainless exhaust, decent speakers, ceramic brake pads, and probably the greatest automotive technological advance in the last 60 years ... EFI.
Not necessarily true. Reproductions often have discernible differences so you will lose originality points while gaining condition points. The point difference may be a wash as the original gets full points for originality while possibly losing condition points.
Do your research , these parts are not Chinese imports , take advantage of newer technologies so you can enjoy it longer with less problems. Your choice
@@meltondaniels2825 Sorry, I wasn't too clear. I wasn't referring to the stuff that Junior is installing, but in general the practice of replacing good original stuff with new repop stuff to get a higher NCRS score. Much of these new items are cheap overseas knock offs. The catalogs are full of them.And I am 100% in favor of taking advantage of new technologies for better driveability and performance. You wouldn't find me on bias-ply tires, etc.
