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I ruined my fancy art supplies on purpose. Here's why.

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P.S. If someone sent you this video they want you to use better art materials ;)
Do you have a box of beautiful colors that’s been sitting in your art studio for years, untouched? Are you afraid of messing up your new sketchbook? Are you unsure of when to upgrade your art supplies? This art pep talk episode of Brush Work is for you!
Host and artist Stephanie Scott breaks down the practicality of the art career with topics including: sustainable creative practices, social media skills, and mindsets to keep us in the studio. New episodes every Tuesday!
Brush Work episode #108
Join the Arts & Crafts Table, a Discord for creatives: / discord
Submit to Brush Work: www.stephaniescott.art/brush-...
Instagram: / stephaniescott.art
Website: www.stephaniescott.art/brushwork
Music by @winepot / thewinepot
Podcast Cover photo by Maryna Blumqvist / picturemaryna

Опубликовано:

8 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 107

@gaildoughty6799 17 дней назад

Wow. An old New England saying is, “I’m saving it for best.” It took me years to realize that “best” is right now.

@paulwoodford1984 12 дней назад

she is lecturing us. she thinks she better than us. she is a nobody

@annabowden3087 26 дней назад

I love this! I work at an art supplies store and students of all ages talk about how they love buying their materials but sometimes don’t use them… They often say things like “It’s so expensive and now I won’t use it lol” So I started telling people “the only wasted paint is paint never used” and it’s so lovely to see people sign in relief! As if a weight is lifted from them and agree with me. They seem much more excited to go home and make art after.

@stephaniescottart 26 дней назад

@@annabowden3087 even a little bit of encouragement goes a long way! Thanks so much for watching 😁

@JH-pe3ro 26 дней назад

I have a more subtle way of putting it, which is "every art supply is an art lesson", ergo, not using it means you didn't take that lesson. Ruining it means you did. And that supports some usage of cheap stuff as well because you do get different lessons from it, maybe wrong lessons, but not in every case. As my collection has gotten bigger and harder to manage I've swung towards "USE EVERYTHING I HAVE AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE" since I want to maximize the value I've invested in this education.

@MissIdolize 19 дней назад

Art materials collector? That's me now. That's what I have become. Artist? That's what I once was, what I still pretend to be, what folks believe I am, what I want to be again. Stephanie - You are so right. This video hit home so hard I could cry.

@stephaniescottart 19 дней назад

@@MissIdolize I hope you make some art soon!!! ✨

@MS-ne6ld 27 дней назад

Life hack: buying artist grade art materials used/second-hand. It might take a bit more time and effort, but it can also be way cheaper than buying them new, and alleviate fears about opening them for the first time. It can become a little addictive though c:

@stephaniescottart 26 дней назад

This is a great idea! I'd even add asking your local Buy Nothing group (or similar) for materials and see what you can get for free :D

@coraliegreen7402 26 дней назад

Yes! I bought the nicest bike that I could afford but... second hand. Someone else had put the first scratch on it and it freed me up to ride and and enjoy it without being precious. It's so liberating.

@a.humphries8678 25 дней назад

Where do you f8nd them?

@berolinastrassmann 20 дней назад

So true! I have found rare (and cheaper) gems in the local second hand websites, eBay or similar.

@themightierpencil 26 дней назад

Whenever I buy new (watercolor) paints, I go ahead and pour the whole tube into pans so that they are ready to use. I also often sell the extra pans (and then use that money to buy more supplies 😂)

@Mojo_Jojo9869 26 дней назад

Smart

@stephaniescottart 26 дней назад

I love this!

@LillenArt2 23 дня назад

I think it would be awesome if more artists did this and traded pans to try new colors.

@NickUncommon 23 дня назад

I am all for this. Reminds me of the tradi g stickers and collectable toys we bought as kids from our pocket money. @@LillenArt2

@AlottaBoulchit 26 дней назад

Art supplies are MEANT to be DESTROYED. This is a motto that I keep in my head when I start getting weird about my "nice" materials. haha. Once you realize that Artistic Creation is dependant upon destruction it really helps free you from the guilt. I was 18 years old and still an AWFUL artist when I got a set of 72 prisma color pencils for Xmas. I asked for them because all the "good" artists I followed were using them. I didn't even think twice about jumping into them. I can still remember cracking them open right after getting them on Xmas morning and instantly creating fanarts of my favorite anime characters. I made sooo much (bad) art with those pencils! I actually didn't finish the entire set (as some colors I never really gravitated towards) and I still have them to this day 20+ years later. The smell of these Prisma pencils is one of my favorite smells in the world. When I hold them close and I smell their scent I am instantly taken back to being that bright eyed 18 year old so full of hopes and dreams about art.I have retired those remaining pencils to being just a decorative accent in my studio (due to sentimental attachement to them haha) and while they're no longer being used directly to make art.. they're still being used as the encouraging boost I need to create every time I look at them/catch their smell.

@stephaniescottart 25 дней назад

This is poetic, thanks for sharing!

@MrsBarnabas 24 дня назад

Alotta, I love your reply! I would have done the same with those well-loved Prismas, and have done it with items which have served me well. Some are also useful as back-ups sometimes, for others to play with, or for a student who's forgotten something. I always have spare sets of everything, but sometimes, taking a backwards step in terms of art materials reminds them why they're using what they have now... and how they've progressed because of it. It can also solve an on-going issue for some about why I choose what I choose for them, and not the dollar store / pound shop stuff.... 😄 Purely out of curiosity, and cos it'll be helpful for me in making future choices, what are you using now, are you happy with them, and how did you decide on those? 😊

@katarinaholik 25 дней назад

I had my fancy professional lightfast pencils in a big pencil case. And they were rarely used, with all pickining, and putting them back in designated spots. Last month I've mixed them all up and put into clear acrylic boxes, sorted by color families and I used them more often in the last few weeks than I did in a half a year I had them prior.

@stephaniescottart 25 дней назад

It's kinda amazing how big of a change putting your materials in a different container can make. Thanks for watching!

@katarinaholik 25 дней назад

@@stephaniescottart totally agree :) bunching all the brands together and putting them on top of my little cart is making them much more accessible and less precious.

@AmbiCahira 25 дней назад

I started learning art as an adult and I have battled with this anxiety of not wanting to be wasteful and my lovely husband who went to art school in his past tells me like a mantra; the only way to waste art materials is to let it sit unused on the shelf. It has been super helpful. Art materials that never got to create art are the ones that were wasted. Use them.

@stephaniescottart 25 дней назад

This is advice I wish I had as a beginner! Thanks for watching!

@rachelb1119 26 дней назад

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately…. Between art school and present day my artistic output plummeted… it’s starting to pick back up again. Collecting the nice materials and actually using them are two separate hobbies!! And I get into analysis paralysis about which materials to use first. The student grade paints are still pretty nice and I should really use those before those go bad in the tubes…. But I’m more excited about playing around with the newer paints. So I think I decided I’m GOING to use up all of the old paints on a couple of massive paintings, because I’ve always been precious about my paint and used it sparingly, let’s just use up all the old stuff in one big blaze of glory!

@stephaniescottart 26 дней назад

@@rachelb1119 omg I love this! Have a ball using it all! 😁✨🎉

@charleholst3881 9 дней назад

I have student grade, and professional grade, and some really cheap crafter-grade acrylics someone gave me. I use them all together in the same paintings.

@AmazinGraceXOXO1 26 дней назад

New subscriber here. And I swear I feel like you made this video just for me. Been struggling the last few weeks with guilt over all my art supplies and here this video pops up on my feed. ❤

@stephaniescottart 26 дней назад

@@AmazinGraceXOXO1 I'm so happy to hear this! I hope you ride this wave of enthusiasm and make some art! 😁🎨

@waleezeart4295 24 дня назад

If I'm watching an art video and the creator is giving opinions but their materials are almost new, I look for advice somewhere else. I enjoyed keeping my empty tubes of paint. I used to pull them out occasionally to encourage myself with how many art miles I'd gone. Eventually I felt I needed the space instead so just took a picture of them and threw them out. Another good feeling.

@stephaniescottart 23 дня назад

It would be so fun to make a sculpture of all the empty tubes I've gone through over the years hahaha, makes me wish I've kept them. Thanks for watching!

@franceskofod4089 26 дней назад

You are speaking the truth. I have been playing with artist quality materials for years as it makes me happy. It is not fun using second rate materials. I liked something I read/heard on You tube about water colour paper 'Once you have have gone down the Arches path way it is very difficult to go back.' I am sorry I have forgotten who said this. I did find an online art shop with much better prices for Arches in Australia and do also buy other paper sometimes.

@stephaniescottart 26 дней назад

@@franceskofod4089 😁 Thanks so much for watching

@MrsBarnabas 24 дня назад

Hi, Frances! _"'Once you have have gone down the Arches path way it is very difficult to go back."_ There are many other brands equal to Arches in quality, and depending on where we live, can be a much better choice financially. Saunders Waterford and Farbriano Artistico come to mind, as two which are top notch papers. They are used by Royal Academy of Arts allumi for their work, and I've used them, long before I knew about the RA's using them, ever since I discovered that Cotman, though a decent paper, cost more than either of these professional papers. Arches doesn't suit everyone, and when I tried it, at first, I thought I was doing something wrong, but as I'd bought it as part of a sample pack (two of each 28 x 38cms samples) by a well known UK art supplier, soon discovered I wasn't. It just didn't suit me. SW and Fabriano Artistico do (I don't like FA's student papers, though), as well as Lanaquarelle and Hahnemühle 'The Collection' (again, all made in Europe, all 300gsm 100% cotton, all legacy brands). All great papers, each with their own characteristics! I've used samples of 10 different watercolour papers, student wood pulp papers and 100% cotton, in a trial with my students and it was really interesting! (Wood pulp is commonly called cellulose by artists on RU-vid, as being different from cotton. That's a misnomer, as cotton is also a plant and is also cellulose!!! It just has better qualities for watercolour painting! But the problem these days is that many You Tube artists have got the Arches fever, often having only used a couple of others or having never tried other papers. It really upsets me, because in most of the world, it is by far the most expensive choice, even here in Europe, and even here in France - and it's made in France! 😊

@franceskofod4089 23 дня назад

@@MrsBarnabas Thank you for writing to me. I do use other papers and have tried Hanemuhle, Lanacquarelle, Fabriano, Canson, Stonehenge and Saunders. I do really like Arches but really I was replying to the spirit of the video that it is not good to stick to student materials for fear of 'wasting' the materials.

@MrsBarnabas 23 дня назад

@@franceskofod4089 Hi, again. _"...it is not good to stick to student materials for fear of 'wasting' the materials."_ Totally agree with that!!! One of the joys of being a face-to-face tutor is being able to offer options for them to try, and it is usually a real eye-opener for them. Almost always, they end up making the switch to better materials, once they get their head around the financial fact that better paint lasts a lot longer than student grade, as well as the difference in results. That they waste less with decent paper, as it's easier to get good results, so less goes in the bin! It helps that as I buy in bulk, I can put together an order for them for a lot less than they would pay individually - and I keep it up, even after they've done the course, if they want me to do so.. Sadly, online's pretty much the only option as local art shops have closed and the nearest are too far away to be viable! We used to have two good shops in my home town, and both closed down, due to major road reconstruction going straight through one site, and the other couldn't compete with online prices.I 'm really sad about that, as it was a lovely shop, and there's absolutely nothing to compare with actually seeing the physical item! Sorry - I'm getting side-tracked! I tried some Canson papers, but didn't like them - again, they just don't work for me, and I haven't tried XL because of the texture. I've been tempted to try Stonehenge, as it's so popular here on YT, but I still have a lot of the other papers that I need to use up first! 😇 What did you think of what you've used? Honestly, this is simply my curiosity, and needing to learn more about what's available, cos after all, it is my job, and I can't afford to be a stick-in-the-mud! 😄So I hope you don't mind? If you do, please do say so.

@twk8520 25 дней назад

I buy just about everything on sale. I also do thin layers nowadays so it all takes forever anyway 😆. If you buy just a few supplies a month you end up with quite a bit. If you grew up poor old habits die hard.

@stephaniescottart 24 дня назад

Oh now I'm curious, do you have a monthly art/creative budget?

@twk8520 23 дня назад

@@stephaniescottart I base it on whatever projects I'm working on at the time. Oil, watercolor, ink, pencils , markers gouche ECT. I put in less then I used to once it accumulated. I just budget a few things a month a set, tubes, ECT. Even just a brush. After art school It was always about portfolio piece's so it kind of stuck so everything takes longer perfection obsession 😆 I advise everyone just buy a little consistency what you can afford when you have the cash. It will be a treasure chest soon. A trick I learned for those needing to save money is use cheap for base layers and better stuff for final layers.

@InALittleWhile-44 23 дня назад

I can see how I do this in many areas of my life. Waiting to use the fancy things until, I don’t really know what. Great video, thank you!

@stephaniescottart 23 дня назад

@@InALittleWhile-44 Thanks so much for watching ❤️

@M.Campbell 18 дней назад

This is a good video. You make a great point about saving things for later because of a scarcity mindset. I recently got a great buy, at an estate sale, consisting of good brands of untouched paint tubes and some very nice, unused, brushes. I was happy to get them, but a little sad too. I understood their former owner's mindset. I still use the student grade paints for under painting. But for anything that will show, when the painting is done, I use better quality materials.

@stephaniescottart 18 дней назад

@@M.Campbell Thank you so much for watching!

@claudiamanta1943 18 дней назад

I hear you and I agree with you. At the same time, the materials are very expensive, even the basic ones. I wanted to weep when I entered an art shop. I would love not to have to calculate the amount of oil I use and dream about painting on canvas. It is frustrating.

@stephaniescottart 12 дней назад

💛 Thanks for watching!

@LCLand 25 дней назад

For watercolor at least, it could take years to use up a tube of paint use all of it that’s what’s fun about having gorgeous paints. I’m a hobby artist and I buy the best. Buy the best you can afford and enjoy! I also buy cheap paper for when I just feel like playing. My very first palette has become my practice palette. Paint I didn’t love and don’t plan to buy again. It it still beautiful paint. But I also use my best paints for playing. …. When I get a new tube I pour some in a pan and if I don’t have a palette for it I put in my “holding palette”. Curating palettes is part of the fun 😊 swatching is part of the fun. I make a point of rotating and using all my supplies. I just don’t understand why everyone doesn’t do this. It’s the joy of art Maybe it’s a frame of mind I’ve cultivated over the years. We also use our fine China at least half the week every week. I think I was in high school when I heard about ladies saving their good perfume for a special occasion and it rots in the bottle. They never enjoyed it. So I’ve always used what I buy. It’s a fun lifestyle I highly recommend it. Just do it 🩵

@stephaniescottart 25 дней назад

Using your fine China all the time is the best. I love pulling out my fancy tea cups for my everyday brew :D

@LCLand 25 дней назад

@@stephaniescottart yes!

@bogosbinted5862 11 дней назад

This used to be me, but mostly for sketchbooks. Now that I've left that idea behind, I've not only improved as an artist but also learnt to enjoy and the moment in life. Also became a huge Schmincke fan , which is kind of expensive taste, but it's worth cause it's really good stuff

@stephaniescottart 11 дней назад

@@bogosbinted5862 their paints are so buttery and nice ahhh. Thanks for watching!

@Michael-lq5di 22 дня назад

You are the best 🎉 everything you say is gold and i thank you for sharing this most important aspect of being an artist!!!

@stephaniescottart 22 дня назад

@@Michael-lq5di Thanks for watching 😁✨

@Merdragoon 6 дней назад

It's why I try to use everything up before I buy more. Have a lot of acrylics? Let me use those up first before I buy more so I don't waste all that paint and it goes dry. have modpod? I try to think of all the projects I can do with it so I can just use it up. I even stopped buying more drawing pencils because I realized that I needed to use my Prisma drawing pencils first as they just stare at me. (I personally hate those because they don't get dark enough but they're "okay" for undersketching so I'm trying to use them as much as possiable just so I can just rid of them and also they were expensive compared to Stadlier. I might as well get use of of them). use up what you have already because they don't last forever and will actually become wasted when they dry up and not be used. (looking at you glue and paints). I haven't bought anymore supplise since High School (unless I don't have the material for a college class) because my high school would tell us to always buy new supplise when we bearly used any of the materials they told us to get the previous year... (I had actually asked once and the teachers literally told me I needed to buy new still which was again.... waste because I could actually use the previous thing that they told use to get and never showed us, so I just cheated a little and not buy the thing and pretended it was new... only to find out again they never used it.) Still annoyed they made us buy these shiva oil sticks and never once had us use the damn things. For a pack of 4 overly expensive giant oil crayons? 20 bucks.... at least back in late 2000s. I still donno how to use them properly to this day, and I even cracked open one just to see what was so special about it. I wonder if the fear of "using the expensive thing" was made worse due to art teachers doing that.... Thank god my College courses told me I could use what I already had so I didn't have to buy it every. Single. Time. and actually USE the materials! But I know not all teachers are going to be that willing to let you do that from my experience and talking to others outside of my classes.

@cinderblockstudios 26 дней назад

Love this concept! The algorithm just dropped me your channel and you are so underrated!

@stephaniescottart 26 дней назад

Thank you so much for watching!!

@MandaPanda254 25 дней назад

Im so guilty of this. Its a horrible mindset to get stuck in. I very much needed this!

@stephaniescottart 25 дней назад

Unleash the creativity!! :D Thanks for watching!

@jooglerman 25 дней назад

I needed to hear this today!!! Thanks!

@stephaniescottart 24 дня назад

Thanks for taking the time to watch :D

@johnoswald9143 10 дней назад

Omg I’m an art supply’s collector, thank you. It’s only wasted when it isn’t used.

@Lala_B 25 дней назад

I see you looking straight into my eyes. This is so me. My precious, pristine journals and paints keep growing in number but rarely get used. 😬

@micheleleech8128 7 дней назад

Thank you for your advice. I will try and break my self-limiting blocks in the future.

@stephaniescottart 6 дней назад

Thanks for watching!

@apeacefulworld9095 53 минуты назад

Love 💜 love 💜 love 💜 this approach 🥰🙏🏻 thank you

@craig243ful 17 дней назад

best advice i ever got was dont intriduce a art product until six months has past give you time to figure out what can be done with the shit you already got

@stephaniescottart 14 дней назад

It's good advice :D Thanks for watching!

@cazkiwinz4300 26 дней назад

2:30 Hey! I have lots of expensive supplies, Copics, Prismacolors, watercolours, etc……but I still love my Crayola Super Tips and 120 Crayola pencils collections! They look good on my desk, so many pretty colours!

@stephaniescottart 26 дней назад

@@cazkiwinz4300 that makes me happy that you love your materials so much 😁 I bet you make really fun things with them

@marryamakbaar3014 5 дней назад

This talk is Revolutionary 😲 mindblowing 😌thankyou

@stephaniescottart 5 дней назад

@@marryamakbaar3014 thank You for watching!!

@charleholst3881 9 дней назад

I use his as a sort of maxim, or affirmation: Paint is cheap. Even if I’m using a really expensive color, there’s only a buck or two worth of paint in any one painting. Hence, paint is cheap.

@diannedupuis2960 26 дней назад

Great video!

@stephaniescottart 26 дней назад

@@diannedupuis2960 thank you!

@LillenArt2 23 дня назад

I use a mix of student and artist grade supplies 😅 Depends on the medium though because some are more expensive than others. I do recommend buying fewer supplies at a higher grade though.

@stephaniescottart 23 дня назад

@@LillenArt2 using a mix can be great 😃

@Bindismom 25 дней назад

From day one I have never seen the value of using cheap color or paper. You get a totally different result with one versus the other. I just always wanted to do my best, using the best and I learned so much more quickly as my results were most always pleasing to me, and I got better faster. For oils or acrylic, the same thing is true. Better canvas and paints means a more enjoyable experience and of course a more pleasing result. Just my opinion.

@stephaniescottart 24 дня назад

Thanks so much for watching!

@adelehammond1621 6 дней назад

I think for me a big reason why i havut brought high end oil paint like micheal hardings Some colours are like £40 which is insane But i have high end watercolours and gouache

@stephaniescottart 6 дней назад

Those little tubes always give me sticker shock

@j.m.1806 26 дней назад

Are the materials actually art supplies if they aren't being used for art? Or just stuff? dk

@stephaniescottart 25 дней назад

right? :D

@MrsBarnabas 24 дня назад

A very good question, JM!!! 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔... I think they are art supplies, but are also 'just that stuff that is never used, taking up space needed for other stuff... ' But I also think that Alottab... (posted just before you, has a slightly longer name) has a point. Well loved art supplies, retired to a memories place are not just stuff, but special mementos of lessons learned and progress made... So I guess both your suggestions and AllotaB's are also right! 😄

@j.m.1806 24 дня назад

@@MrsBarnabas 🤔 yes much to ponder on but if something is marketed as an art supply but never used in an artistic expression? While so many tools used for mark making never considered art material will create art? dk As for memories I can only say that a life occupied by the past is a life never fully lived. Imo of coarse Best to all!

@MrsBarnabas 24 дня назад

@@j.m.1806 _" I can only say that a life occupied by the past is a life never fully lived. Imo of coarse "_ An interesting comment. 😊I agree that a life too occupied by the past is a sad thing, and it's important for those involved to try to find the reason for that, but it's not really what we (Alotta & I) were talking about. This is about having a happy memory object (like those much loved Prismas of Alotta's) that makes us smile, for example, while doing the dusting, that happy smile of recollection, then going on with the job, the smile having released good endorphins which lighten our mood and our day.. There's an issue with a life which refuses to count the past of any value, because it's only as we cast a glance backwards that we can see how we've grown, what we've learned, what we need to focus on, in order to be encouraged by our growth, to learn from it, in order to make the best of our present and future. All these things and more can be stimulated by the memory... so many reasons why our past matters, both in our present and in our future, keeping us grounded, helping our sense of identity, and so much more. There is a lot of solid scientific research to back up what I'm saying here, and it's well worth doing a search on the subject. It also shows that people with memory loss for whatever reason, including Alzheimer's, strokes, or other trauma to the brain, as in accidents, etc are greatly helped by being encouraged to look at memory books compiled by family and friends, photos, favourite things from those days, favorite foods, recordings of favourite shows, helping to round out the scary life of not remembering into something that makes more sense. For some, it may only last for a few minutes, but those few minutes are precious for everyone involved. For others, it can bring back some, or even full recall, enabling the person and their friends and family to live normal lives. We need to be able to look back at the past, to be present in our present time, and to look forward and plan things for the future. To take away any one of those elements is to cause an imbalance for the person concerned. So having happy memory objects in our lives really do matter. Especially as the things we choose tend to bring out happy memories! 😊

@j.m.1806 24 дня назад

@@MrsBarnabas I says Whatever you chose to believe doesn't need to be qualified by science or other we have religion as proof. For me too much mental dialogue is a hinder to fully expressing free flowing artistic expression. I do have and read The Red Book. I recommend it. Stay well

@vaninafernandez3043 9 дней назад

Ok, listen, here in argentina, a palette of 24 winsor & newton profesional grade costs 300 us$, almost a salary. Not to mention arches paper, only 20 sad sheets costs 80 us$. What should I do? I'll tell you: art therapy with crayola untill you die

@stephaniescottart 8 дней назад

Wow that's a lot!

@jant4741 14 дней назад

Biggest waste to me early on was believing all the swatching videos & thinking various expensive specialty water colors would improve my work. Ended back up at my initial 16 color palette (pro level paints) If it is too precious to use, don’t buy it.

@stephaniescottart 14 дней назад

It's true! Thanks for watching :D

@solarydays 26 дней назад

if you are not financially well off, then there is no " changing the mind about wasting expensive paint on beginner practice " . sure there are people who will recklessly spend on art material and then beg on twitter for donations every month to be able to pay their bills, see it all the time. there is no shame in being cautious with your choices . well you only paint squares, so there is not much room to fail there, but for those who actually study fundamentals it is a long term financial investment until they start seeing any results.

@stephaniescottart 25 дней назад

:D Thanks for watching! This is giving me a good idea for another video on acting on caution vs acting on fear.

@solarydays 25 дней назад

@@stephaniescottart right, because the real problem is that people are not brave enough, not that many just can't afford things. it's gonna be a hit, just like this one

@LillenArt2 23 дня назад

Sometimes buying a higher quality thing is less expensive long term because they will last longer or stretch farther. Some mediums also are more affordable to get into. I'm also an artist on a budget and some of my supplies are 10+ years old. :)

@solarydays 23 дня назад

@@LillenArt2 that depends on how much you paint. if you don't paint, they will last longer indeed

@charleholst3881 9 дней назад

When I started painting, I owned three tubes of paint, one brush, and one 9x12 canvas panel, all of which I paid for by skipping lunch and using my lunch money for supplies. Very, very gradually I built from that base, but it took years.