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I wanna shout out Andrew for the tooltips since the effort for that must be quite up there and it makes the viewing experience 12/10. Also frost for the kiss every time makes me feel loved.
1:01:29 yes, youre right! 4 of a kind technically contain two pairs. But the reason it doesnt work like that is bc the game follows poker (hand) rules. It helps if you view hands like recipes/ingredients. A full house has 2 ingredients, a 3 of kind + a pair. So the pair it scored. In a 4 of kind, it scores the same ingredient x 4, not the pairs.
Also, the wording of the joker is “if the played hand contains A two pair” not “if the played hand contains two PAIRS”. The “A” makes me side with the developers that the joker should not upgrade with 4 of a kind, as it refers specifically to the poker hand, not the concept of multiple pairs.
I think another easy way to look at it is that with 4 or 5 identical cards you can't make a "two pair", you can make pair, 3 or 4 or 5 of a kind, but not "two pair", hence a 4 or 5 of a kind does not contain "two pair"
Regarding whether "4 of a kind" and "5 of a kind" should or shouldn't count as containing "2 pairs" : I think it is a balance issue, because it would mean that already extremely pogged-up hands, like for example a "5 of a kind flush", would trigger too much effects at once. As of now, a "5 of a kind flush" triggers : _"pair" _"3 of a kind" _"4 of a kind" _"5 of a kind" _"flush" _potentially, any specific values like "face cards", "aces", "two 8s"... If LocalThunk made it so that such hands counted as "2 pairs", it would need to also contain "full house" (because there would be 2 identical card values alongside 3 identical card values), therefore triggering almost every possible hands at the same time ! Also, BALATRO BE BALLIN' ❤
Additionally, the fact that the Two Pair text is highlighted as a keyword most likely means it's "contains a subset of cards which would be *scored* as Two Pair" rather than "contains two subsets of cards which would be scored as Pair" Because 4 of a kind and 5 of a kind are both their own separate hands, no subset of those cards would be scored as Two Pair. With a Full House you have 4 cards out of the 5 that are always considered as Two Pair
58:24 Running the math here, just in case Chat didn't run the math, or didn't have the space to explain properly. In Summary: If the Glass card scores (actually counts for the hand) it is almost always better to add it. Short Math? Four of a Kind: 21,586,176 Short Math? Five of a Kind: 29,382,642 Detailed Breakdown is below... Card effects apply before Joker effects. Only the Hanging Chad has an effect that can affect the calculations at this point. At the listed moment, three of those Glass Sevens have a Red Seal and are counted twice. The Hanging Chad effect, the first Glass Seven with Red Seal is counted again. Despite it being on a Seven with a Red Seal multiple times by this point, the Red Seal did not trigger again in other examples. It is a safe conclusion that that applies here as well. Four of a Kind has a base Chips of 150 and a base Mult of 16. Due to the cards being counted multiple times, there is effectively 8 Glass Sevens being played (4 base, 3 seals, 1 Hanging Chad). This adds 56 Chips and due to Glass effect, doubles the Mult 8 times. 16 times 256 (2^8, doubling 8 times) is 4,096. Resulting in 206 Chips and 4,096 Mult (current score 843,776). Five of a Kind has a base Chips of 120 and a base Mult of 12. Due to the cards being counted multiple times, there is effectively 9 Glass Sevens being played (5 base, 3 seals, 1 Hanging Chad). This adds 63 Chips and due to Glass effect, doubles the Mult 9 times. 12 times 512 (2^9, doubling 9 times) is 6,144. Resulting in 183 Chips and 6,144 Mult (current score 1,124,352). Now that Card effects have been calculated, the effects of the remaining Jokers apply... Any Jokers that have a Special Edition has the Edition effect apply before the Joker's actual effect. The Foil Edition Spare Trousers added 50 Chips from the Foil and 58 Mult from its own effect. Four of a Kind has 256 Chips and 4,154 Mult. (1,063,424) Five of a Kind has 233 Chips and 6,202 Mult. (1,445,066) Hanging Chad has its effects apply during the Card effects phase and has already had its effects applied. It has no Edition modifiers to apply at this time. DNA can only be triggered once per Round, has done so before this point, its effect does not affect score calculation in any direct manner, and it has no Edition modifiers to apply. The Holographic Edition Blueprint added 10 Mult from the Holographic then Multiplied the total Mult by 4.5. Four of a Kind has 256 Chips and 18,738 Mult. (4,796,928) Five of a Kind has 233 Chips and 27,972 Mult. (6,517,476) The Constellation Multiplied the Total Mult by 4.5. Four of a Kind has 256 Chips and 84,321 Mult. Final Score of 21,586,176. Five of a Kind has 233 Chips and 125,874 Mult. Final Score of 29,382,642. Having that extra Glass card doubling the Multiplier ended up in having a higher Mult and Score throughout the entire process. Conclusion: The only way I can see the Glass card not being worth it is if the Mult of the Hand without the additional Glass card is around double that of the Hand with the additional Glass Card AND the chip values being different enough that adding the Glass card does not make up for the lost chips.
My head hurts when i try to watch Balatro, Andrew edits are the only thing saving me. I love math, but i dont understand poker at all, so when i asked Frost i didnt understand anything, thank you both for content and help. I am probably trying to do math, but then i cant understand what am i suppose to do and i am breaking.
Ran a 2 pair build for my first game on the full version, had 2 pair joker, 10 4 and planet mult joker and won with 500k hand, eventually scaled to 1.5 Mill, rewards were insane so there are so many more potential combos next time
my highest so far is with the balance plasma deck. best hand was 2.906e11 with that plus 2 mult per 5 dollars, steel joker at around 2.5, negative rocket, negative smear, planets give .1 mult, hologram, and the joker that can copy the one to the right (used on hologram). the ante i needed to continue was in the e13s
relating to the two pairs argument. With your logic of 5 of a kind containing two pairs you could then also say that 3 of kind contains two pairs because you could have the 1 and 2 card as a pair and the the 2 and 3rd as a pair thus technically containing two pairs.
You make a good case for Four of a Kind counting for Two Pair (which by extension would also qualify Five of a Kind and Flush Five), but unfortunately the game disagrees. Maybe they'll change it, but that's how it works in the game code currently. (Maybe they think that would include too many hand types for the sake of balance, idk?)
Wasn't it counting when he played full house though? If so its just an error of programming since both four of kind five of a kind and full house technically contain 2 pairs.
Full House does indeed count. However. It contains two _separate_ pairs (that are not the same rank). That limitation could be what keeps the code from accepting Four of a Kind, etc. Wether it's an oversight or a balancing measure, this is where the ruling stands.
22:24 the smeared joker and flower pot combo means you only need to play a red and black suit in your pairs for a 3× multiplier. Definitely better than ballot and constellation at the time you saw it 😅😂
Great video frost man. Backseating time: the pants were doing nothing in the end, since the glass mults applied before it. So you'd go from like 20,000 mult to 20,050 mult, which is like nothing. In that case you probably should've searched for xMULT or retrigger effects (or something similar). Really fun video tho.
Damn this game is so good and you are such a good streamer! I hope you enjoy playing it! I love watching your videos mr frost! I hope you continue to have a fun time :))
