@@pczTV I have a Peugeot 306 with 100hp. It's just about enough in a small car, as you know, and I've driven plenty of tasty machinery myself before now, but the Peugeot is definitely up there when it comes to fun. Another 20hp wouldn't go amiss though...
It was obvious to me that I was hearing a small amp in the intro. It was missing a bunch of low end thump. That lack of low end thump is why these amps work so well in the studio. They sit nicely in the mix and don't step on the bass or kick drum.
I saw Cheap Trick in Los Angeles at a huge arena show back in 1979. Rick had a wall of impressive looking amps/cabinets and of course the sound was great. But since I was near the front, I started looking more closely. And off to stage right (right next to him, out of view of most of the audience) was a Fender Champ on a chair, mic'd, and this was clearly the sound that was coming through the mains. I have no idea if any of the other amps were even throwing any sound at all!
same with one of the most famous TV appearances of The Jam: a Marshall stack behind Paul Weller, but the actual mic-ed sound was coming out of a ... Peavey Bandit
@@MrTimcoronel Backstage 30. Which was a high feature amp. 2 channels, footswitchable Saturation and Reverb, and afaik - there's only one video that shows him playing it live. Had one recently. Quite overlooked. Ever hear of a backup? The idea that a stadium filling band couldn't crank up a Marshall in the 70s is ludicrous.
1:52 Decibels are measured on a logarithmic scale. A +3dB increase represents approximately double the power, electrically speaking. So, totally makes sense that a 100W amp is that much louder than a 50W amp... it also helps to remember that "just" a 3dB increase at higher volumes is more punishing to your ears than one would assume, since we all tend to think in linear fashion rather than exponential.
You are correct. A doubling of power is a 3 dB increase. While researching info about human hearing, I discovered that a 3 dB power change is just barely noticeable. According to researchers, it takes approx 10 dB of power change to be perceived as twice as loud. That's 10 times more power! Food for thought...
I love your comment here. I was thinking exactly as you were. I was too scared to comment because I didn't know how to explain "exponential " in Marshall speak. Thank you! 🧠👀🖤🥳🎉🤓
By definition a 3dB increase is just noticeable whereas I believe a 6dB increase is a four fold increase in output power but represents only a doubling of apparent volume
Correct a 3dB increase represents twice the power, however it takes 6dB to 9dB to sound twice as loud, varies somewhat person to person. So to sound twice as loud, we need to increase power at least four times, ie: a Twin Reverb sounds twice as loud as a Deluxe Reverb, 22w vs 88w also with a 3dB increase with 2x12 cab.
You forgot to mention that you can plug these small combos into a separate cabinet. Five watts running into a high efficiency 12” speaker is actually pretty loud. If I recall, those 6 1/2” and 8” Jensen/Oxford/CTS speakers were only around 90db. Plugging into a 2X12 with Creambacks would quadruple the volume and massively increase the low end.
Loud as in annoying to the wife, not loud as in actually loud. For reference: I cut an EP with my favorite 90s metal drummer. He even pulled the kit from when they toured with Pantera out for it. My 71 Traynor YBA1 is a non master volume Marshall Lead (50w, Super Lead is 100w) clone with extended bass response and 65 watts. One of those "never shoulda sold it" amps. That through a Thiele in the room with a real deal, stadium crushing drummer was...just enough. Keep in mind, cranked, it only had Zep/ACDC levels of gain, so it was getting pushed by my pedals. A 4x12 would've taken it further, surely, but there's not a 1x12 combo made that's significantly louder than that monster quarter stack. Everyone has enough wattage, until someone starts hitting that kit like a man.
My Champ dsp 30 doesn't have a line/speaker out :( I don't know if I would run the Phones into another amp but I guess you could. You couldn't just go into a 4x12 from there. I tried with my Guitar Research VL-20 going into the Champ and it sounded like poop.
@@RPSchonherr if you're willing, you can fairly easily get some male and female 1/4" jacks and put a patch point in your speaker wire. Make sure you use tape or shrink wrap to make sure these jacks don't short against the speaker frame or chassis.
I walked into a tiny music store in Portland OR which had a bunch of cool vintage stuff. Plugged a really cool, highly used Strat into a very unassuming old Fender Champ and from the first note was taken away. Dreamy round dripping with tone sounds emitted from what looked like something that was going to be thrown away at Goodwill. It was like you couldn't play a bad note and every pick and stum took you to new places. It was kinda mind blowing.
Anyone here ever played thru a lil monster called a Fender "Super Champ"? OMG I don't know if that one fits in this discussion, im sure it was rated above 5watts. But...o Lord, best purchase my young mind could muster. Oh that amp was a screamer, and clean with headroom to the heavens!!!❤
Or different cabs for the the big amp. I always use a hiwatt dr103 as I like the sparkle and I like the infinite clean headroom that still sounds tonally rich. I just switch up my cab depending on the situation. If it requires a 412 I take a 412, if it is way lower volume I take a less efficient 112 cab so I get some of that speaker push at lower volumes.
Man I can hear Ben talk about guitar all day. It would be cool if you guys had him on the dipped in tone podcast, or even better if he had his own channel. Thanks for the great content Rhett!!
The new Gibson amps are just Mesa Boogies with Gibson cosmetics. If you call Mesa customer service someone from Gibson will answer. I am so glad I have a MK5/35 that was made in the Mesa factory.
I recently acquired a 76 Vibro Champ. I wasn't specifically the lookout for one, but just couldn't pass on the opportunity (good deal, GAS, etc). So glad I got it and might let go of some of one my bigger Combos. This just really fits my environment (Basement, residential area...Kids at sleep :) And I could chit chat with the seller about the local music scene here in southern Bavaria while the thing was dimed🙂
I feel like in a studio, any amp can sound big. I used a slightly modified Fender Frontman 10G (the kind of amp you get in one of those players packs) to record something about a year ago, and no one who wasn't there was able to guess that was what I used.
That's why people arguing over modelers sounding "bad" are silly. It's all about how much you dial in the tone and where it sits in the mix. Modern modeling software can crank out so many usable tones that don't make a difference and sound great.
I had a PA once that I just plugged my guitar in direct, I think it was 200 watts. Someone before I bought it had spilled a coke into it though and it died on me. It did sound nice. I have a 1000 watt sound system with 10 inch stereo speakers, plugging a guitar into that is too much for the speakers. I need some bigger ones to do that. Surprizingly my Lowrey organ has an input and that thing blasts clean. I think it's 100 watts. There are a lot of ways to amplify a guitar.
@@RPSchonherr When I started playing guitar, I modified an old boombox I had and used it as an amp. I didn't have pedals at the time so I just cranked it as best I could. That poor thing wasn't designed for what I was doing. Thankfully, my parents bought me an amp for Christmas that year. LOL!!
@@RPSchonherr Power ratings on power amps are practically a scam. There's so many ways you can play with the numbers it becomes meaningless. There's only a few companies in the world that make an honest clean 1000 watt amp, and it will be over 10k for a single channel amp. If you want to see what I'm talking about, look at some budget brands like Crown, QSC, Yamaha, or anything similar. Compare the power on amps like that to a pro audio Bryston. If you can't find any pro audio Bryston info, look at they're home amps. Their much more popular and they're identical to the pro models. All they do is put different connectors on them. Aside from that, they're identical.
Saw a Gary Moore tribute act 25 years ago. Guy was using a POD into a Peavey solid state amp. Sounded absolutely incredible. Volume, talent and good ears equals incredible tone. Good gear? Less so.
About 25 years ago I painted a portrait of a friend and his daughter in exchange for a silverface mid 70s Fender Twin Reverb. Since I'm not a gigging musician I concluded that this was way more amp than I really needed and swapped it for a Fender Blues Deluxe reissue. While I loved the sound it put out it was still more than I needed and I sold it to buy a Fender Champion 600 reissue. For me it's the perfect amp. 5 Watts through a six inch speaker, two inputs but only a volume control. I like some reverb so I added a Boss digital reverb pedal along with an EQ pedal, to adjust tone, and one of those green drive pedals. And that's all I need. And don't forget; Derek and the Dominoes used Fender Champ amps to record Layla...
@@timhouston1638 Originally I did start off small. I had a silverface Fender Champ (that I gave to my son) but always wanted a Twin Reverb. It wasn't until I had one that I realized I really didn't need it.
Great mic, good placement, good gain choices, great touch on the instrument. You make all these sound great 🤷♂️. Also, keep riffing on Zeppelin…like, forever, please. I love your little personal takes on the riffs that I have loved for decades. I actually do that all the time when I’m messing around too ❤.
There’s truth in gigging with small amps in ANY size of venue. They are more than loud enough. You don’t need your amp to be as loud as your drummer on stage because your VOCALIST can never be louder than your drummer on stage. You will be forced to mic your amp. You will sound better too because the PA system can properly fill the venue with your sound.
I wish there were words to explain how much I freakin love an electric guitar and a killer amp. These are a few of my favorite things... Thanks for what you do Rhett. Stay classy!
Totally unrelated to guitar but you can tell from watching these videos that Rhett has definitely leaned out over the last few months. Lookin’ good dude!👍
that fender champ is amazing. blew me away how good it sounds for recording. definitely going on the list for small amps for the studio to compliment Fender Twin Reverb. This will be so helpful for late sessions and sounds huge!!
We have to remember, these higher wattage amps were basically PA systems for guitar players, in a time when PA gear was limited and you needed headroom, efficiency and sheer volume just to be heard. There is no practical reason to use a high powered, non-master volume amp these days.
I bought a few of the 50th anniversary 1 watt Marshall’s when they came out. A decent pedal board in front has always given me a the sounds I want at low volumes.
these small amps are great! had a supro from the mid 50s that we used for harmonica tones with a shure green bullet mic and it was the best harmonica i'd ever heard, thats another cool use of these lil guys
One of the biggest revelations for me was when I saw someone take a small boxy combo with a speaker output and plug it into a bigger cabinet. What a difference that made to the tone.
I have a '73 Fender Champ that I have been lugging around forever. Never used it. Sitting in a closet here, put in storage there. I finally decided to do something with it. I guess the place to start was to put a new speaker in it, because original speaker cone was dust. So I bought a Jensen P8R and put it in. It worked. I couldn't believe it. Sitting around for 40 years doing nothing...and it worked. It sounds good. I did it with the intention of selling, since it still looks good and entirely original (Except speaker of course) , but now I don't know. Might just keep it.
I have several vintage and newer 5 watt amps and the only thing I can add here is that you'll hear the difference more easily in various tube types when cranked. Cranking the amp constantly is hard on them though. Class a tubes never get a break, lol. I have a small collection of vintage tubes and no longer use them much because they're either hard to get without getting ripped-off or crazy expensive, (ie; rca black plate),. Long ago I thought folks made too big a deal out of it until I put a black plate in my barth amp. At about 6/7 volume it really was the holy grail of tone. I finally get it. Cheers.
I've used my five-watt amp jamming with a drummer. It's plenty loud. I need to use a speaker soak if I turn it up in my den. What it doesn't do is clean loud.
I just recently bought a Ceriatone amp based on a Marshall 18 Watt Plexi. It has an PPIV Master volume and the tremolo channel is modified to have a standard Plexi tone stack with Treble, Mid, and Bass controls. The TMB channel has a bit more gain than the normal channel, so an A/B switch in the front allows for channel switching. Plus it has a low power option which drops the output valves into triode operation and the power to 9 Watts. Another sleeper in the 60’s small amps is the Vox Tube. Pathfinder. It is pretty much a Champ, not much Vox DNA in evidence. I cranked it through the 4x12 at our rehearsal space on Sunday and I am still grinning.
I have a 4 watt single-ended triode 6V6 tweed I built myself. It has a 10" Jensen P10R in it, and if I dime it, the neighbors would definitely be banging on my wall.
Idk man, I could tell immediately that wasn't a Marshall in the first clip. While you were playing I actually said out loud, "That's the worst Super Lead I've ever heard." Because it wasn't one! Haha
@@dyamariv3628 I could tell because it wasn't bright enough and had too many low mids. I have a '70 JMP 100w Super Lead. They are very bright, cutting and raspy. They have little to no "Depth." It's all mids. The giveaway, though, was the lack transients (little white noise explosions) that all old Marshall have when you pick a note.
See, I thought it was the best sounding Marshall I'd ever heard! Hot take, but I loathe the sound of cranked Marshall's. I think they are way too bright and brittle sounding.
Same here. The Superlead easily wins for me but obviously comes with the issue of crushing volume if you want those power valves cooking. I’d opt for this rig but with an attenuator for live use, just to bring it down to an acceptable volume level.
I meant to say also that there is a "perceived " difference between clean noise and dirty noise and one sounds much louder than the other .Though it may not be in terms of Watts or Db .Its why a 30 watt combo with pedals can sound louder than a 100 Watt Marshall without them........Dave E
My VHT Special 6 Ultra is a killer amp. 6W with 12" speaker. Handwired. FX loop. Watts knob to dial in saturation. It can go both really quiet and pretty loud for a small amp and still sound great.
Nice demo and conversation between you guys, I always enjoyed the small amps, I had a Deluxe reverb which I loved for jazz (clean with no effects except for the amazing reverb sound, but that didn't record as good as my Vibro Champ for more raw guitar sounds. I added a reverb pedal to put in front, but it really didn't need it.
I heard the intro and thought there was something off with the micing... After seeing you were plugged into the Gibson I realized it was the sound of "small iron" or possibly a small speaker. A nice tone for some but not what I'm into. I watched the whole video and at the end you plugged into the JMP and that was without a doubt the sound I was hoping for in a smaller amp. Good video... look forward to more.
I have found this exact thing out from trying to find a great "in my house" amp, that won't rip my ears off. I went through thinking I needed the Crate Blue Voodoo, the Marshall VS100, the EH Mig 50....only to really use my VHT Classic 18 (18 watt) or my Orange Terror STamp (20 watt) amps most of the time. I only own the MIG 50 now and gig most of the time with my VHT. Because like Ben said...most places are micing amps these days. Great video as always. I always find your content informative and entertaining.
I just received a Splawn Quick Rod 50. It has a volume control on the loop. It's awesome. I can play at any level and it sounds so good. Turn it up and the amp shakes the house. Five watts doesn't do that, but 5 is can still be ear splitting. Whatever I'm using, I run a cable into the next room.
Great video Rhett. I use my '66 Vibro Champ at certain gigs and other guitarists don't believe me when they ask about my rig. I show them my LP, 2 pedals and a 5w amp with a mic. It's so funny to watch their reaction. We're on a full In Ear setup and it sounds like a giant amp in my ears.
I truly appreciate smaller amps now. When I was young all the sound came from the amps behind me and not through the small PA. The PA only had the vocals. We had over 1000 watts of amps cranked. So I had 200 watts of bass 18” behind me that felt like a fan blowing past me. The most recent band I am in we drove everything through the PA and the volume was much lower. We could hear each other and get a great balance.
I recently bought a second hand 3 watt, battery/ mains powered Vox modeling guitar amp with a 4 inch speaker for £70 ($80ish). It sounds huuuuuuuuuuuuuge and I love it!
I own a Blues Deluxe, a Champ, and a Mini Marshall (the 9v battery one). They all sound like their size. Though, one interestingly good sound is the Mini plugged into the 12" speaker of the Blues Deluxe. I removed the resistor for the headphone jack for use with external cabinets and the tiny little amp circuit sounds beastly when paired with a big speaker. I have a very difficult time making the Champ sound good. A TS808 is a must have in that case. It's somehow able to sound thin and boxy regardless of what speaker I plug into it.
I would suggest trying amps like these with a Fryette Power Station. I have a range of amps from a 5/20W Marshall SC20H through to a genuine 1968 SL100. When driven to high powers but slugged down to bedroom levels by the PS100 they all stay still on song. That could be a great way to get the best out of your high power amps even at low volumes, (though not cheap). And I'm not decrying smaller amps, I have a few of those myself. You pays your money and you takes your choice! And of course a lot depends on what speakers you pair them with. For my money the worst combination is a low power amp with high powered speakers. The speakers never get driven hard enough to come on song and that removes one of the most important tone tools in the chain.
On the subject of small amp's sounding "Big", Pete Townshend irrefutably proved this on their "Tommy" album's "Pinball Wizard" track. That BIG guitar crunching, banging sound was a Gretsch hollowbody played into a small Fender amp, a Princeton i think. I still think "WOW!" when i hear that tune.
I couldn't help giggling when I realized there's a Gibson USA sign on the wall with a white Fender Strat hanging over it. Awesome video and very informative... this is great for house players that want to emulate the bigger sounds without having the police called for noise complaints.
The 100 watt Marshall has that heavenly crunch that I crave, going about half throttle. The 5 watt amps sound like 5 watts, even miked up, great sound, great overdrive, but not that dynamic crunch the big boy produces. For full throttle overdrive, without help from a pedal, I prefer the single ended amps.
I have a Kustom V15 combo. 15 watt, switchable to 4 watts. It had a 10 inch Celestion Greenback, but that is now a Creamback. It sits on an Abbey single 12 inch cab, with a Fender by Celestion 50 watt speaker in it. I call this my mini Marshall. Tons of punch, at a reasonable level.
I have always been a little surprised there are so many people that need a 50 or 100 wat tube amp for their house or rehearsal space as large as a stadium with thousands of people listening ;)
I have everything from a '76 JMP 2203 Superlead to a '67 Deluxe Reverb to a '65 Silvertone 1481 with 5 watts and an 8" speaker than sounds ROCK... they all sound awesome!
The last gig I did I had a 1958 Champ and a 1960 Silvertone 1481 (also 5w) and it was perfect. Put it through the PA and I had all the volume and tone I could want. Ben’s point about rehearsal is accurate tho. The Champ alone wasn’t enough, but putting the two amps on top of something at ear level fixed that issue
I haven’t had anything bigger than 15 watts in years, and the one I’ve used lately is a Fender Vibro Champ XD and it sounds great. I’ve been wanting a Marshall Class 5 for a while because they’re just awesome too. I’ve even been using a TC Electronic DC30 so I don’t have to deal with taking an amp lately too. I find it quite amusing Rhett was using a tube screamer but the fact that he said he wasn’t using a ton of gain made it even better, cuz that’s the point of them, you take an amp with a decent amount of gain and it boosts the frequencies you want so you cut through. Way to go, your journey is complete.
I knew from the title that the intro was going to be a small amp, and I love the sound. Interestingly Mike Cole was talking about another 5W amp, the tweed '57 Fender Champ, in a video today. 5W is definitely all I ever need, although I like my 15W Blue Jr IV (which I paid $400 for used and it's in great shape). This does nothing to dissuade me from the thought that 100W heads and 4x12's are for arena-sized rock tours and very little else.
My very first amp, way back in 1979, was a little 5 watt Fender with a tremolo. Can't remember what it was called. Snagged it at a pawnshop for $20. If only I had known
The last electric band that I played with, I went out with a 4 or 5 watt Valco made amp and mic'd it. It was fun and a lot easier on the back than even the average tube combo amp.
Cool video man. Recently I found a 52 Princeton clone so I bought it. 5 watts or hit the switch for 1 watt. Its been a long time since I have used an amp that small. It brought back memories for sure. Breakup is phenomenal at that lower output plus the brightness darkens as the output gets higher which makes it perfect. It takes pedal very well. Im giving it some burn in time to see how it handles. I guess I'm back to a 5 watt man at least at home and maybe the studio. The wife even loves it, now thats saying something. Have a good one.
I have a modified Epiphone Valve Jr. running through a Blackstar 1x10 cabinet. It has a boost switch and an extra gain knob. I love how this thing sounds and it is plenty loud. I found a whole lot of mods are available for this particular amp.
Great video. Love the analogy of the small amps to useable sport cars like a Miata. You can use their full performance any time. Big Marshall half stack is like a supercar - there are very few opportunities to use its full performance.
I always thought of 5W vs 100W as like comparing a 4 cylinder to a V-8. The 5W is more efficient to a certain point. A Combo with a single 6/8/10, even a 12 inch speaker getting 100% of the amp's output. Efficiency for the 100W going into a 4 speaker cab is going to distribute 100W to 4 speakers evenly. Then there's the clean headroom more power output provides from 100W over 5W. I have a Orange Crush 12 (W) PiX that is unusable garbage dimed for setting of Volume, OD & Gain out of a 6 inch speaker. Up to a certain Volume, OD & Gain, it's delivering pretty decent sounds. Recording that would be fine. But I wouldn't say it approaches the higher powered Orange amps or could fill a larger venue like a 20, 35, 50 & 100W amp does. And then there's the guitar signal input into the amp. Some pickups into the Crush 12 PiX are just too muddy/soupy to sound good dimed. 50-70% volume is about as hard as you'd want to drive a Orange Crush 12 PiX. I'll play my LP Special P90 into the Crush 12 dimed and it's just unusable garbage. A Strat though, it's cleaner & more usable closer to dimed amp settings. I think a bigger speaker would help the Crush 12 considerably. an 8/10/12 inch speaker would probably be able to handle all 12W for dimed settings better than the little 6 inch speaker does. My whole process of getting the Crush 12, sounded great at the Guitar Center for the demo unit at low volumes, I took it home and that's when the Crush 12 disappointed dimed. But it was preowned, wasn't full price, so it was a keeper for being a bedroom amp. If I were to sell any amps, it would be the 1st to go. I enjoy the Fender Mustang I V2 20W amp infinitely more than the Orange Crush 12 PiX. My 6W amp is a VHT Redline pedal amp, I put that thru a 8 inch open cab combo that's wired to be a passive cab. That would become my bedroom amp.
