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Man a lot of people didn't like how they did Tony in this movie but I loved it. He feels more run ragged than even in IM3 and that edge makes him more relatable than ever imo.
@@cthulhuwu_ this is the Tony from lots of comics: selfish, childish, impulsive, egocentric, irresponsible, cocky, arrogant, traitor... his presence have been staining the complete MCU, from Spidey to Avengers Team. I wish he had been less of a "main character".
Seeing him literally scared for his life when Cap is about to bring the shield down at the end is a new look, too. (Hey, if Steve didn't kill him by giving him a Super-Soldier-Strength press-slam that hit the back of Tony's head on a concrete protrusion, Tony's playing with house money, I'd say. But I can't blame Tony for not seeing that right away.)
@@cthulhuwu_ i hated him in this movie because he was very much thinking the world revolves around him when cap, bucky, and him were fighting. he wasn't taking into account that bucky wasn't able to control himself he was brainwashed. i get that seeing ur parents die but you shouldn't blame the person who was literally being brainwashed, blame the people that made him do it.
@@pinapplegaming5781 this is complicated. You have to put yourself in Tony’s place. He wasn’t thinking about that, he just wanted to avenge his parents murder. When he asks ‘do you even remember them?’ ‘I remember all of them’ Bucky was obviously trying to express his remorse and regret but it did NOT come off that way to Tony. It’s a dig to Him because he’s so blinded. And you have to realize WHY he’s so blind. He feels like this is ALL his fault. He wanted to protect the earth and the program failed and turned on him and almost cost them the planet and their lives. Pepper leaves him over his obsession and probably his emotional issues after AOU. And then he really realizes the human toll his actions have had through Charles Spencer’s moms. He realizes he was wrong and Bucky was framed and he was wrong so he genuinely goes to help Bucky and cap and get them out of their mess and destroy the other winter soldiers & stop Zemo. But instead once he realizes Bucky killed his parents, one of the driving forces in life and still the source of a lot of his trauma (which we see in the seen with BARF.) he doesn’t care about anything at that point but righting the wrong, killing the winter soldier, avenging his parents. You have to also remember tony’s only real interactions with him have been him in brainwashed wintersoldier mode, he doesn’t see him really as Bucky already, he calls him barns and is all for him being locked up even once he’s conscious. Much love hope this clears up that perspective, I definitely understand the anger as well!
the thing with zemo is he is the only villain who achieved his goal. keep in mind hes a normal human also. zemo is one of my favorite villains for sure.
@@CrownedRex then it was undone, in the same way you could say Zemo didn't succeed in the end either, they both just did much better than any other villain.
@@CrownedRexI like that Thanos won the first film, but then died TWICE in the second film. Like, he was too evil to just get one death scene, he had to have two.
I feel like a lot of people forget that Bucky Barnes has been in his own personal hell for 70 years. The poor dude only ever tried to do the right thing (befriending and defending pre-serum Steve, fighting nazis and HYDRA), but HYDRA then took that choice away from him and made him into a killer. He was tortured for decades as they repeatedly wiped his memory and brainwashed him, and there was nothing he could do to resist. He literally lost his entire identity for the better part of a century. And now that he's slowly regaining his mind, Bucky can't help but feel guilty and ashamed of everything HYDRA forced him to do. In my opinion, he is one of the few characters in the MCU that has never truly done anything wrong. His actions as the Winter Soldier were not his own. Bucky Barnes is and has always been a morally solid character, even though he struggles to see that in himself now. It's really heartbreaking that he doesn't feel worthy of everything Steve does for him. The world was not kind to Bucky, and he deserves to find peace after everything he's been through.
A lot of real people blame him for it. “Brainwashed or not he still did it” “He literally murdered Tony’s parents” “Steve protected his murderer friend” Apparently some people can’t grasp mine control. I’ve even seen someone compare Steve not telling Tony and protecting Bucky to someone protecting their friend after they drove drunk and killed another friend’s parents.
6:56 Yeah but Don you gotta remember, Ultron was completely Tony and Banner's faults for creating. Their intentions were good but ultimately it was them biting off more than they could chew which directly lead to Sokovia occurring in the first place.
First time watching, that was the only one I granted Ross as having a point in. The rest would have been so much worse off if they weren't there. Hell, the governments response was to nuke New York, if it hadn't been for Stark there would be a giant radioactive crater where New York stands, and the worm hole might not have even closed...
@@Krisishere I mean, those are just examples. You can argue about specifics, but especially Sokovia and Lagos have proven that there needs to be SOMEONE who can be held accountable for the Avengers actions.
@@Serryy Yeah I agree for the most part about that. That's why I always leaned more towards Stark's side of the whole affair than Cap's, but at the same time considering the events of The Winter Soldier I do get where he's coming from. I just felt like the vast majority of those examples were pretty bad, but I get that it needs to be examples of events that the audience has seen on screen. Though I feel it's heavily implied that Stark is pretty darn involved in repairing (and paying for) any damages they cause (both directly and indirectly), see Far From Home for reference, iirc he was involved in the cleanup there.
In Winter Soldier, when Zola stated that Hydra was within Shield and accidents happened, there was a photo of the newspaper article about the death of Tony’s parents. Captain knew that Hydra did it and if you put two and two together, knowing that Bucky was an assassin for Hydra he figured it out…
Yea but the problem is that Black panther was doing the same thing and realized that he’s being played. If tony could think rationally for a sec and not get mad at the puppet he could’ve helped fight the puppeteer.
@@Imari.W I mean could you blame tony cause Barnes did killed his mother on the other hand for black Panther it was actually zemo that killed the father of Tchalla not Barnes. So yah yours doesn't really gets a good point. Plus he saw a video where his father get beat up and his mother getting choked. Even captain would do that but he definitely would not kill the person.
@@analyticallhb9242 The action in the moment makes sense but he’s very much in the wrong. In the moment i can understand but getting mad at the puppet for being controlled makes no logical sense. They didn’t get mad at hawkeye or dr selvig for helping loki. But in that moment i can understand why he would do that. If he figured out while he was on the way there i think he would’ve had a different reaction, maybe. But why try to kill the guy who was mind controlled into killing your parents. Take out the people who mind controlled him. Don’t kill the puppet kill the puppeteer.
@@Imari.W Well There's no puppeteer anymore because they died who else to blame than Barnes. Tony had no one to blame but just Barnes not even Zemo cause it wasn't Zemo that did that to the parents of Tony it wasn't Zemo who ordered it. They already died so the only person he can actually blame is Barnes
Still my favorite MCU film 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 I think mainly cuz it’s seeing the internal conflicts and how the Avengers’ loyalty to each other are tested. Also it brings into question accountability. And we get to see the debut of Tom and Chadwick 🕊️
I just happen to be from Chadwick’s hometown of Anderson, South Carolina. this man has done soo much for the local communities & kids down here. Wakanda Forever, My King 🤴🏿🙅🏼♂️
I remember when this came out. Really fun with interesting themes, huge introductions and revelations with even bigger repercussions that the Avengers must face. Also, Team Cap 🤘🏽
This is definitely one of my favorites. Everyone in this movie has complicated and personal motivations to do what they did and they all make sense and are consistent with what has happened to them before. Zemo was a badass soldier and special operative, trained at destabilizing the enemy and causing them to weaken from within. Then the Avengers came and caused the situation that killed his entire family. He needed revenge and he went after it the one way he could... destabilizing and destroying them from within. I think he might be my favorite Marvel Villain. Cap has lost faith in the government after the events in Winter Soldier with Hydra having been part of SHIELD all along. He doesn't trust others to make calls for him anymore as he is afraid of that type of thing happening again. Then the very first thing that happens is that his best friend and the only thing linking him back to his old life (since Peggy just died) is accused of murdering diplomats and there are orders to kill him on sight. He can't trust the government and he HAS to save his friend. Tony is wracked with guilt for the collateral damage that has been piling up movie after movie after movie. He also sees that it isn't fair for people who are powerful to just declare themselves over everyone else and that the right thing to do is to let representatives of the people decide if they can exert their will somewhere. So he signs. They all still like each other though. But once he is blinded by not just finding out that Bucky killed his parents but actually WATCHING it happen... his reaction is understandable (even if illadvised). The betrayal that Cap knew (he found out in Winter Soldier that Hydra killed Howard Stark in an "accident" from Zola in the bunker right before it was blown up) and never told him... Heck, even Romanov changing sides is really in character for her. Same with Vision and Wanda and everything else. It was a true tragedy and yet a really good story. A better Avengers movie than Age of Ultron. You are right, the Captain America movies are fire. I do have to say though... looking at it from Caps view is wrong, IMO. It isn't about them. The reason the police can use force when others can't in society is because they are representing the will of the people (ostensibly, at least). Just because someone is strong or powerful shouldn't mean they get to make the rules and kill whomever they want, right or wrong. And the Avengers weren't doing that in one place, they travelled the world at will doing it. Yes, if the bad guys in the beginning get the chemical weapon, then lots more people die... but what if they had let the authorities know and they could have taken other steps to protect it, or move it, or asked the Avengers for their help so they were there officially. Instead they just came in caused a big fight and people died, people who wouldn't have died if Cap wasn't there (Rumlow was blowing himself up to kill cap, he wouldn't have done that if Cap hadn't gone in or paused because he was hearing about bucky). If it were your family in that building who got blown up, you would want the Avengers held responsible for their part in what happened... but they just left, flew back to America and didn't go on trial, didn't have to stand to account for mistakes that cost people their lives. Anyway... FANTASTIC movie.
Okay great analysis btw and i completely understand where you’re coming from in a sense. But 1st of all Tony getting mad in the moment is very understandable but he’s making the same mistake that black panther was making. The only difference is that Black panther understood that he was being played and that Bucky wasn’t at fault. Now Tony knows about Hydra and their tactics but he still decides to get mad at the puppet instead of the puppeteer, although in the moment extremely understandable. That would be like getting mad at hawkeye and dr selvig for killing coulson and all those other people in New York. And getting mad at Dr. Cho for building Ultron his better body, even tho it didn’t work but if it did we all know what could’ve happened with the what if series. You can’t get mad at the puppet. And for the Accords, I’m sorry but that is the most ridiculous thing to be signing especially after the events of Winter Soldier. We still know that there are some hydra stragglers out there seen with the first guy zemo kills in CW. So if they have an ounce of power in the accords they could make the Avengers not show up to wherever they’re needed or go fight something that’s completely wrong and problematic for the world. It’s honestly the fact that if the Avengers are needed in an area they would have to wait for approval. And if they had to wait for approval when Ebony Maw arrived in New York then Doctor Strange would’ve died and they would’ve gotten the time stone so much earlier, never would’ve been able to prove to the ancient one that they needed to give up the stone to win, and they would’ve been fighting Ebony Maw as well as Thanos. It’s just the fact that if they had to wait they would’ve all died and there wouldn’t have been a way for them to come back. I get your point that there needs to be some accountability and i think that in all honesty they needed another SHIELD like in the 1st avengers. But just think about all of the times Cap did something wrong in the eyes of the government and was doing the right thing all along. Like when cap saved the soldiers from the hydra base. He could’ve been in jail for that. When he went against Shield/Hydra the government thought he was an enemy but he’s doing the right thing. So i mean cap doesn’t seem to be ever in the wrong (except for not telling Tony about his parents, he really fucked up for that one which is why i believe he couldn’t lift the hammer in AOU.) But Team Cap all day
@@Imari.W So, imagine if any billionaire could just put together their own team of super powered folks and have them do what they think is right with no interference from your government when they come to you country. They don't have to ask, they don't have to take accountability... they just do what they want. Would you be cool with Mark Zuckerberg doing that? Elon Musk? Might just doesn't get to make right, it doesn't matter if it wealth or super powers. I am suggesting it would be like police and fire is right now. The government can put standing orders together that say what they are allowed to do within a given jurisdiction. That can be done ahead of time. They would have permission in some areas and not others. There would also be requirements, like you have to let the country know you are entering their area, for example. Pretty sure this is why those accords are so freaking big. There is a lot in there, right?
I think Steve's right in that there might be circumstances where immediate action is needed (couldn't have called a panel discussion while Ultron was floating Sokovia to the skies), but just because periodic reviews make more sense than pre-emptive red tape is hardly an excuse for his "I do what I want when I want, and if you don't like it you can try to stop me" unilateralism. It's certainly handy when Steve decides that He alone is fit to judge Bucky and handing him over to the authorities is too evil to even contemplate (THREE separate times Steve picks a fight rather than surrender His Boy Bucky to the authorities, and Tony tries to get Steve out of his way SIX times in the before he actually attacks him, yet Steve doesn't try to de-escalate the conflict, he jumps in with both feet on Bucky's side and comes within an eyelash of KILLING Tony), but that hardly makes him right. Of course, as Tony told Peter, Cap's certainty that he's right makes him dangerous. At least Tony apologized for his mistakes and tried to correct them. All he got from Steve was a CYA "Sorry I kicked your ass, but I gotta be me", IMO. (Delivered as Steve is smirking his way through beating up innocent Raft guards and "rescuing" people who may not even want to spend the rest of their lives as fugitives. [Sam seems ready to go, but Clint and Scott have kids. And I don't think even Wanda knows what she really wants.] But hey, it's a "Captain America" movie, not an "Avengers" film, so Steve gets the swelling music for…orchestrating a prison break. Oooookay.) JMO naturally.
Agreed. I don't think there is any reason the accords couldn't account for an immediate response by having standard guidelines and procedures and scopes of authority already in place though... we do that with all police and fire forces now.
Wanda tried to propel Rumlow high up above the building, but the force of the blast she was trying to contain was just too much. Fewer people died as a result, but people still died. If Rumlow had succeeded in escaping with the biohazard, even more people would have died. So, the Avengers were damned if they did and damned if they didn't. Regarding Sokovia and the flying city, that was Tony Stark's fault, because he (with Banner) created Ultron. Remember when Cap and the Widow were talking to Zola? He showed all those photos, including Howard Stark and the Winter Soldier. Cap suspected then that the Winter Soldier killed Howard, but he didn't know at that time that the WS was Bucky. Great reactions!
The thing you have to remember watching this movie is EVERYTHING that happened in Age of Ultron was 100% Stark's fault because he created Ultron and that makes him responsible for everything Ultron did
The Russo brothers directed Captain America : The Winter Soldier, Captain America : The Civil War, Avengers : Infinity War and Avengers : Endgame and they are the best MCU movies ever till now.
Arguments could be made for most of the catastrophes that the Avengers were part of.... but the Sokovia disaster, was directly caused by Tony. He created Ultron, when he privately messed around with researching an incredibly powerful alien artifact (the stone from Loki's staff). Everything that Ultron did, can be directly faulted to Tony himself. ...and I wonder how Stark Industries weren't sued into oblivion because of it. You can't congratulate someone for cleaning up a life-taking catastrophe that they themselves caused by irresponsible disregard for safety.
I’ve seen a lot of people feeling like this was out of character for Steve and others find him insufferable in this but a lot of people forget Steve is just coming off of the huge bombshell that was the events in CATWS. Steve was actually the first avenger even before Tony to sign his services over to a sanctioned government agency a la SHIELD, only to have first hand, up close and personal experience with it being infiltrated by Hydra. He knows exactly how many “agendas” are embedded at every level of government. Multiple US senators are canonically part of or at least in cahoots with Hydra. His resistance is so warranted and really I find that Bucky being hunted in this was just the cherry on top for him. That being said, I also see where Tony’s coming from though the guilt he feels for me has pulled a bit too much wool over his eyes for the implications of what the accords mean and how unrealistic they are right off the bat. And for what Ross’s perspective seems to be implying in terms of accountability which is just so skewed. They *almost* got there when they were talking about contingencies for the accords. I was so on board with that, though I still have a *very* hard time believing the avengers would have nearly enough pull with those contingencies or that they wouldn’t get red taped to shit by whoever has alternative motives. My biggest problem with Tony in this movie is not that I don’t think he’s right in many ways, it’s that his guilt over ultron which is the one threat he was actually responsible for was created by his unilateral thinking and actions, not working with the others. And now, to compensate he worked outside of them, once again, to bring these accords forward. He pulls strings as a separate entity entirely based on his own perspectives. I love him most of the time but the tact between AOU and this movie was nearly nonexistent.
I feel the same way about Tony. I also love him most of the time, but AOU and CACW have not been his shining moment.Tony is an interesting character, because he isn't really the leader, but when he makes a decision he expects everyone, almost every time, to fall inline behind him. When Tony makes a decision it's final, he usually makes no room for soul searching once he has put his foot on the pedal unless absolutely forced to. As for Steve, again I agree. But honestly, if you think about it, Steve not siding with the government is the most American/patriotic thing he could do. Because the whole of the American system is to make sure that the government never gets enough power to completely control it's citizens. So, even if he didn't have the whole hydra SHIELD thing it still would have been pretty inline with at least his Captain persona.
This movie is still often regarded as Avengers 2.5, which is fair. But really it's just a taste, oh just a taste, of what the Russos have in store for us with Infinity War. And that movie for me is still the MCU masterpiece.
@marie-bu3rb if you think she can't then you clearly know NOTHING about the Scarlet Witch then. The same woman who altered ALL of reality and decimated 95% of the mutant population just by muttering 3 words. So yeah, that woman is dangerous, probably not so much in the movies, but in the source material, hell yes.
'It's not your fault!' It is literally Tony's fault. Entirely. Who turned on Ultron? Where did Ultron get his massive ego from? Why did Ultron want to destroy everything? Answers: Tony, Tony, Tony.
At 27:58 it could also be seen as a reference to hydra since their color scheme in the comics heavily featured green, but other than that you nailed it
This entire cassette was awesome. Every single song was this interesting, heartbreaking story that made you WANT to be a part of a better world, a better community, a better person. I remember hearing this cassette and flipping it to hear each song and feeling for each of the protagonists of her songs. I didn't bother rewinding...I just listened to the next song. I'm a 7yo whitish-tan girl...my dad's Asian but I came from abuse o both sides of my ancestry. There was serious struggles regarding racial issues with German and Irish immigrant relatives (at the worst times) while my American-Asian father had an alcoholic Korean War veteran as his father and 8 sisters to protect when his father was on a tear. It gave me an understanding for her songs on that album. "Through the Wall" used to make my mom and aunts cry. My mom's father was also an alcoholic but he'd destroy the house and beat the boys and my grandma.
This is a complicated movie tbh, because I understand each of their perspectives. For Bucky, he has been controlled and brainwashed for like 70 years, he has no control over what he was doing and you can tell he deeply regrets everything that has happened even though it was not his fault, he still lived through that and still basically did those things, it’s going to cause trauma, self hatred, PTSD along with other things. With captain, he has the attachment with Bucky, a strong attachment he has with no one else since they grew up together, Bucky was always there for him, regardless of what he’s done, he’s going to defend his best friend, especially whilst knowing that he was being controlled to do all these things, but he SHOULD have told Tony about his parents. Yes, regardless of how Tony found out I do not doubt he would have reacted badly but even though Tony and captain have always had a rocky relationship, they considered themselves friends. Regardless of the attachment and history he has with Bucky he should have told Tony. I’ve seen a lot of comments here talking about how, Tony shouldn’t have reacted that way but like- what? He just found out that this man, that he barely knows by the way, killed his parents, he is the reason they are gone, and one of his friends is stood there defending him, knowing what he had done and didn’t have the decency to tell him the truth and also watched a video of it happening… regardless of whether Bucky was controlled or not, your not going to like the sight of that, you’re not going to handle that well, naturally you’re gonna be upset and angry, and when the person who is responsible for it is stood right there, that anger is going to take over. I understand he was being controlled, and I do not blame Bucky at all but people do not tend to react logically or think about what their doing, emotion is going to take over, I know for a fact no matter what I know, I would have gone for him too, because it is a human reaction, and Tony is human. He is relatable in this sense because who wouldn’t react that way?
I'm Team Cap mate, all the way. Back in the day, when this movie came out in theatres, I was the ONLY ONE in my friend group who was Team Cap. Most, if not all, of my friends thought Iron Man was gonna win. Guess who was gloating after the end of the movie? ME! lol
The reason I sided with Captain America was because 1: I have mad respect for him and his integrity is admirable. 2: Because if the government has complete control over heroes, and access to their secret identities to me that doesn't sound like freedom or heroism. That sounds like the government over-stepping their authority and turning into villains. What if there's a war going on, that the Avengers could stop, but America won't let them because it would "Stir up trouble" or whatever bs reasoning they'd have? It's not right, and it's not what Captain America and every hero fights for: True freedom and the protection of the defenseless
The thing with the "Green in the blue of your eyes" followed with "how nice to find a flaw", probably is a reference to someone who is green (inexperienced).
This movie is fire and the reaction will be too 🔥🔥 Also Don if you read this, I recommend reacting to saitama vs popeye Death Battle. You don’t have to watch the analysis if you want only the fight.
I take issue with general rosses criticism of the avengers, his 3 points dont really hold water under scrutiny His 1st point was the attack of new york, the UN's plan was to nuke the fucking city to solve the alien invasion and no one speaks up about that Washington was Hydras fault, they infiltrated shield which again is the US's fault for allowing their organisation to be so easily corrupted The only one the avengers were remotely responsible for was sokovia and tony and bruce had good intentions so its frustrating that the avengers get the blame for trying to save people, i didnt see the US army helping in any of these instances so they can lose the high horse they riding fast
The avengers movie, yes they were needed and also for the blown up building. But sokovia wouldn’t have happened if tony built him and the helicarrier didn’t need to crash
29:20 yeah in the winter soldier when talking to the computer, zola shows pictures of the people hydra has killed to cap, and Starla dad was one of them
It’s the fact how much distraction was done when the avengers did helped out. To be honest they still need to work on the their individual abilities as well as what they can do together. The first movie they just came together for the first time. Age of ultron Wanda still wasn’t in full control of her power, hulk still has issues with his.
My fav Captain America movie by far! Didn't even feel like a CA film and more like an avengers focused movie. Missed Banner in this one though. Would have loved to see which side he would have taken. Him and Tony have a good friendship, but a part of me feels like the hulk would resent being put on a leash. On the other hand Banner could also argue that the hulk is probably responsible for a good amount of unnecessary damage due to the smashing element, and how he can only somewhat control it (although Hulk/Banner has gotten much better). I think Thor would have been with Cap though.
The only thing that could’ve made this movie better is if they had more superheroes like they did in the civil war comics. Like hulk and thor who fought in the comics as well.
The thing with New Yorks battle is the same team trying to control the Avengers sent a bomb during that battle that woulve wiped the city if not for Iron Man
I really wish I could have someone erase all my knowledge on marvel so I could rewatch everything from the start maybe in 10-15 years I’ll do it but I miss these movies 😭
I really enjoy all of your MCU movie reaction😊😊😊. It was so amazing to see your reaction to this movie one of the best MCU movie it was so intense and so emotional movie🔥🔥🔥
Although it is a bit late to say now, some viewers who have watched the Marvel series will miss the following short video 1. Hulk after the ending >>Marvel one-shot: The Consultant 2. Thor before>>Marvel One-shot: A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Thor's Hammer 3. After the Avengers>>Item 47 4. After Captain America>>Marvel's Agent Carter (there will be a follow-up plot) 5. After Iron Man 3 >>All Hail the king(Suggested credits list also look at) The above is the name of the short film that supplements the plot and the connection of the plot in my opinion. Remember the action of the captain attacking the core of Tony's chest with the shield, it will impress you very much later
