IAM Roadsmart Advanced Bike Test with Username Kate 

If she was not that nervous (thinking of someone is watching me), she would have overtook that car in a second...

Without being harsh on Username Kate (she's a very competent and capable rider) you're right anyone who's been given a F1rst by Reg Local must be annoyed by that; she did make a poor judgement error on the overtake and she knew it too so he could have easily failed her on that and agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of him. Think his group should tell him that too

Reg said after the overtake and to some degree supporting the decision he said 'if its necessary to overtake'. perhaps meaning that it was acceptable. Advanced riding and Roadcraft clearly explains the questions to be asked before considering any and all overtakes. The first one of these and one not readily asked is, DO WE NEED to overtake. After all we are not emergency workers that have a NEED to be somewhere and use progress to do so. Thus to them a decision to overtake is balanced with NEED and to all things being taken into account. We as civilians will never ever have to consider that NEED. In reality there is no justification for many an overtake that we make, other than a mere WANTING to. Many riders fail to ask and answer that first question, but making it one of DO WE WANT to overtake ? Its about time we asked ourselves the first question and lose the second one. That said . It appears to me from all my road experiences and driver training within and outside of the the police service that what is being instructed could be at fault. That many riders and drivers are actually doing what they are expected to do. They have a pressure and a need to show a willingness or requirement to overtake or be marked down. By merely using a little restraint we can all become safer road users.. Civilians do not have the same need to show the same urgency or degree of progress that emergency service users NEED to do at times. Under normal road patrol duties they just remain at normal following on speeds, giving safe distances and with fewer overtakes knowing that they are unnecessary. One always remember pearls of wisdom from one's police driving instructor and this one said ' any fool can ride fast but a safe riders knows when to slow down' Meaning if catching up with traffic and with no NEED to be anywhere at that time, just slow down, back off and follow at a safe stopping distance and view the whole road and whatever is going on. Perhaps with those words ringing true, we should take stock of our NEED to overtake, pull back and reduce their numbers, thus reducing the potential danger that may present itself on any overtake and reduce the accident/collision stats and therefore the numbers of motorcyclists or others killed or seriously injured as a result of such inappropriate manoeuvres.

Can you tell what speed she is doing I cant.

My thoughts as well

I was rather surprised by Kates choice in overtaking, why……just hang back, the sun was low giving hidden dangers, those chevron markers a huge hint, that road usage changes would occur, ie cars turning right, and across your path, the speed limit was 40…so just drop back, ease off the gas….wait until you have cleared that little hamlet….as it was the white car increased its speed…..no I am sorry, that was a very dangerous and unnecessary manoeuvre and for me would have resulted in a fail…….you just make those poor judgements and you tend never to make them again…..it could end up bad….I cannot understand this need for speed, to have to get past any and every car…whatever happened to a nice ride out, enjoying the ride , getting your road position spot on, ride to the conditions….and get back in one piece….I have been riding for 43 years…..still learning and self assessment after each ride…..no wonder I am shattered after a ride….I just think speed and overtaking just to get to wherever quicker is not a good idea with most drivers out there thinking us invisible…just my opinion.

I agree, in my opinion that overtake was very dangerous for her and the oncoming car, sunlight, road markings, speed limit….why the rush, steady and drop back, be patient….I think Kate rode not bad, I felt at times some overtaking and speed in wet conditions was questionable, of course it’s all objective….I was confused about those chevron markings, to be honest I always thought they were a no go overtaking zone…oh well you live and learn….

Reglocal is not an ex Roads Policing Rider, only Class 1 Driver. Im ex Police/Ambo but never been on the bikes, id have loved to have got on our bikes in Brum and done the Police Riders Courses. They do alot of training round Shropshire, let's just say another level! I always try to transfer my Roadcraft to my riding but Iike for like, my riding is much lower in my own opinion.

there's two people on here, no name's mentioned, but if you where to follow their channel and watch them taking candidates out, you'd learn a dam sight more, and whilst people are saying they have no right to comment because their not examiners, that's laughable, who do think gets the rider up to a high standard in the first place, its not the examiner, and the two people who did comment are master riders, that's the civilian equivalent of the police test, i could carry on but there's no point, has a member its embarrassing.

You could hear him groan when she did that haha, also the chevrons are fine to enter when needed but it kicks up all sorts of crap onto the car being overtaken (still got that lovely chip in the windscreen) and as you said achieved nothing but burning fuel. Test should have ended there and then.

I'm surprised Alien 13 hasn't glued himself to the road in protest.

On a closer look you can see why she went for the overtake (21 mins). The car was doing 30mph in a 40 until she committed to the overtake and THEN it decided to accelerate. First time I saw it I thought it looked a bit untidy but I give Kate the credit here. ~good decision from the examiner in my opinion.

And my two cents I never sit in gear waiting as I have seen a bike jump forward into the pedestrians at a crossing when the clutch cable broke,but each to there own

A friend stopped behind a car that stopped for an oncoming tractor. He really should've been prepared, on his Deauville, in reverse gear (Yeah right!) because the car in front suddenly reversed to give the tractor room, and trashed the Deauville.

I noticed that 😏

On a closer look you can see why she went for the overtake (21 mins). The car was doing 30mph in a 40 until she committed to the overtake and THEN it decided to accelerate. First time I saw it I thought it looked a bit untidy but I give Kate the credit here. ~good decision from the examiner in my opinion.

At 21 minutes on a closer look you can see why she went for the overtake. The car was doing 30mph in a 40 until she committed to the overtake and THEN it decided to accelerate. First time I saw it I thought it looked a bit untidy but I give Kate the credit here. ~good decision from the examiner in my opinion.

​@@tinkertime7165The speed of vehicles, the actual speed limit, the reason she did it, have absolutely no relevance, overtaking on hatchings (unnecessarily) and also passing a junction, would be a fail on a basic test, let alone a 'advanced' test.

@@Grahamvfr there are a few things on an advanced test that if you did on a regular test you would fail. That doesn’t make them illegal or unsafe. We have to remember there are basic rules taught for good reasons. Since there is no definition of what constitutes ‘necessary’ when entering a hatched area it is open to opinion. In my opinion it can be necessary to enter the hatched area to safely perform an overtake. Regarding the junction I would agree not to overtake unless the view is good enough to see it it clear and poses no risk from vehicles emerging.

@@tinkertime7165 So are you saying the overtake was safe?

@@Grahamvfr do you think it was unsafe?

Don't hold your breath.....

I'm guessing the days of the Examiners all being ex Police Instructors or Class 1 Drivers/Riders is gone. I have heard Civilians conduct exams as well as retired/serving Traffic officers now. RegLocal is not an ex Bike Cop, only cars, though honestly can not pass any detriment to his car videos. I see some ex Roads Policing Riders commenting on here ref standard of pass!

I can't see what difference it makes which leg you put down, as long as you put one down so you don't fall over that should be considered a success 😂

I passed my advanced with a first and was taught: left foot down when the stop is likely to be brief and right foot down when it could be a longer stop, so you can engage neutral and rest your clutch hand. I also do right foot down on right had turns or where the camber of the road drops off to the left so the ride is leaning the right way already. Its odd that the A test prefer left foot down all the time.

Fully agree about indicators being hard to spot, at least on old gs bikes they were very dim. Made my learning harder. That said the kwak bike the examiner had was fine ! I also think it brings an unnecessary distraction to the lesrning

The comment about the braking and right foot is fair and in my opinion it's poor technique but as long as the correct result is achieved dose it really matter which technique is being used? A bit like steering and how you use the wheel whilst driving a car.

@@Aaron-rr1gs but why is it bad technique? IMHO it’s because of the increased risk of losing the front end - unnecessarily. In fact, in my pre-test prep, I was told by an examiner they will actively check you’re only using the rear brake as you come to a stop. In your basic motorcycle test, I recollect you’re generally meant to put your left (near-side) foot down for this reason, and to leave you less exposed off-side. It’s a good debate though, always keen to get others opinions.

Being a BMW GS it probably had linked brakes with the handlebar lever operating both.

There's nothing wrong with right foot down. You need to be able to do either method. The important thing is coming to a smooth controlled stop without pogo-ing the front forks. For right foot down you need to be able to feather the front brake. Right foot down can also be so much more relaxing in busy stop/start town/city riding . In fact some police forces use/promote this technique. So many people get hung up about what foot is being used and it really isn't an issue.

Foot down doesn't really matter much on end result, Roadcraft and the IAM ARC both say about becoming proficient in using either or both feet in a controlled and smooth manner. But I definitely agree with the concerns around the result. Multiple instances of endangering herself, lack of control/smoothness, list goes on. My test was very similar to this (nowhere near as many unsafe maneuvers but the general vibe is the same), but I ended up with 1's and 2's across the board with an examiner who is known to be a bit harsh on results (amazing guy, he just has high standards)

It had just excited a roundabout it's a low powered car 40 is a limit not target doing 30 past that junction was the correct speed given the car caught then at the next roundabout shows it wasn't just messing around at low speed it prob went past the danger of the junction then built it's speed up after the danger it was a clear fail thier was no need to overtake this idea and focus on making progress by these trainers is what causing accidents

judging by that overtake yup

In my case, so much so that I applied for the course! Like most, *that* overtake was very alarming to me, accepting that everyone makes mistakes (though I am certain I wouldn't have made that one). It seems that 'making progress' and all that entails - perhaps pushing the rate of progress beyond that which is *necessary* and overtaking when there is no compelling need to do so. OK, wide angle cameras make it all look much faster than it is. But even so, we are recreational riders, not emergency services personnel.

Yes you're a brave man to mention 'trail braking', but it's so useful on unknown roads /bends.

I was taught to use the rear brake when coming to a halt (generally) and thus put my left foot down. I don’t think it matters which brake you cover when at a standstill, but I do typically cover the rear. To be using the front brake to pull up goes against what I was taught. For me, the crazy overtake should have resulted in a fail, certainky not a F1rst pass. No wonder the candidate thought she’d failed, I really don't know what was going on there.

Why should it?

Not necessarily, or it depends. Is it safe, was it appropriate?

@@alanbrown5593 wasn’t safe in this instance!! That car could have done a last second turn into the property on right…I certainly wouldn’t have carried out that move there…..

@@TwoFourCharlie007 The angle could be deceptive, at the speed of the car it is very unlikely it could slow/turn in time. Not saying impossible just unlikely. We all have our own little pet issues, if I was being hypercritical not modifying/changing position in respect of oncoming traffic. Overall, a safe competent ride, demonstrating the application of the system. It took a lot of courage, on both, to post the test, due to some less enlightened individuals.

@@alanbrown5593‘…it depends’ 😂 Whenever I read/hear this, it just deters me from undertaking the IAM path of enlightenment and the hard earned money saved can be better spent on other pursuits.

@@colingreen2320 Whatever form of additional training you choose just go do it. Isn't super sexy, but may save your life.

Glad you enjoyed it!

Unless you’re in the examiner’s seat, I guess you don’t get the same perspective. But as it is, a strange award for that ride. Would love to hear the examiner’s explanation to some of the points raised.

Yes the Highway code states entering hatching s, is OK 'if necessary' but an overtake wouldn't be deemed as necessary, as those hatchings are specifically to protect the oncoming right turners.

Currently doing my masters. Don't think thr hatches are massively relevant here, I agree it wasn't on, and the positioning did improve but I missed out on a f1rst my first time around for exactly those issues... For what it's worth, I can see why and fully agree with Reg's decision from what I saw here. Confident and safe ride, overall application of the system was good. There is no perfect ride and I don't think you should have to ride one to get it, having a 1️⃣ for an area like position is about it being _consistent_ throughout the ride. Consistency is not the same thing as perfection (not having any tiny error in judgement or nerves getting in the way). Just my 2p and I'm not an examiner, reg is, he was there, and I think his judgement of the overall ride was probably spot on. Great work Kate, absolutely stoked for you well done and happy riding 🎉🏍️

@@Grahamvfr Yes but being necessary can be a subjective word. What some would consider necessary others wouldn't / There is no legality in the statement at all except to possibly convey its use when necessary to avoid dangerous or difficult situation or collision or accident/incident where life would be at risk. Otherwise necessary could mean just being late for being home for tea.

@@rcraven1013Thank you, We are talking advanced riders here remember, and i can assure you in a court of law, illegal or not illegal, suggesting crossing hatchings was necessary because you were late for tea would not evade a charge of driving without due care and attention, if a situation arose. Not forgetting that even on a dvsa (learner) test, that would be marked as serious fault in those circumstances. In your subjective opinion then, was Kates overtake necessary?

You should!

This is a full size GS. Kate is 5ft 4in . On U.K. roads the left foot option isn’t always available.

@@aunoates6617 Fair enough but her left never went down first as far as I could see.

@@robertpaterson3646 it's not mandatory, as long as the machine is under control it doesn't matter which foot goes down.

It says you can use either on test. i have known people have to use the right all the time due to a weak left leg.

Right foot down first makes sense on a GS due to the Telelever and linked front, rear brake setup means bringing the machine to a final stop on the front brake lever alone makes the machine more stable and less prone to dip when stopping. On the GS I'm nearly always right foot down first, my other bike traditional forks etc I'm nearly always Left foot down first bringing the bike to a final stop rear brake. It's all about finding smoothness and balance. Side note: The BMW off road school teaches the GS riders front brake leaver only doing slow manoeuvres.

A first is all 1s ,

@@RichieRides Not necessarily, my son got a 2 for one item, but due to his overall demeanor and attitude the Examiner decided to grant him a F1rst (car), which I never hear the end off., according to him I sat my test on a horse and cart !

@@RichieRides that’s what I thought. Again, not putting Kate down. It was a good ride. Just strange that she was awarded a First where there was inconsistency in the 1’s

@@RichieRides It's not all 1s

A F1rst can be awarded if, apart from a couple of non safety-related 2's, all the rest are 1's. If she'd gotten all 1's but pickep up a solitary 2 for something regarding safety then she would not have been awarded the F1rst. Her 2's weren't safety-related so examiner discretion was applied.

Hi how did you get on, one of best things I did back when I was freshly passed

a lot on here have been there, that's why there's comments.

I'm right with you there. I only passed my 'A' licence in September 2022, and as with you, my training school were very hot on left leg down so you have control of the rear brake with the right foot.

if you followed her channel, you would have seen her first ride out, she was told not to offside the bike its not expectable on test.

@@MrWhothefoxthat fair enough. Thanks for the answer.

I passed my advanced with a first and was taught: left foot down when the stop is likely to be brief and right foot down when it could be a longer stop, so you can engage neutral and rest your clutch hand. I also do right foot down on right had turns or where the camber of the road drops off to the left so the ride is leaning the right way already. Its odd that the A test prefer left foot down all the time.

@@robsayer8028 Why do you need control of the rear brake, if a 2000kg car hits a 300kg bike, the back brake will not be much use. Doing the Hendon shuffle is old school, use the appropriate brake for the appropriate situation. ie on a slope