Hahaha, Eastern Turkey? You mean Kurdistan? A country the size of France or Germany with a population of 55 millions 🤔. Oi is a great organization, at least call every thing by a correct names 👍.
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Yes I agree. Great presentation and of all the presentations I have seen from Ian Hodder, and it's been quite a few, he is always very professional, succinct and seems very humble.
I thoroughly approve of this new spotlight technology in the presentation deck. Works so much better for online viewing than the invisible laser pointer.
Hi @proudsnowtiger, Thank you for the positive feedback! The Spotlight is a recent addition to our presentations with exactly that in mind. Glad to hear it has the intended effect! (kb)
Sorry, it seems I am in the minority, but I found it distracting and almost inducing vertigo, I actually stopped watching the presentation because of this.
Yes its definitely an improvement! Watching older presentations and not being able to see where the presenter is pointing the lazer pointer is extremely distracting and can destroy the whole presentation.
Yes, it’s vertigo inducing! This is an accessibility issue for at least migraine and vertigo sufferers. Maybe epileptics too? It’s nice to be able to see it (compared to the laser pointers). Maybe the speakers could be asked to stop wiggling it all over. Thanks for considering this if you see this comment.
Legends. I was fortunate to meet Robert at Western Michigan University when he visited. Meeting the man who's works I read much of was beyond a treat for me. Thank you.
Perhaps the inhabitants were brought up to be nice and polite to each other? If you are too obnoxious you don't get invited to the midwinter party. Hunter/gatherer lifestyles can be very easy when the environment is as rich and varied as it seems to have been at Çatalhöyük. Together with the agriculture producing grains and legumes, the wild produce would provide a rich and nutritious diet that would leave plenty of time for leisure pursuits.
The idea that 3500 to 8000 people could not have lived together without violence shows only that those people of today's world can't imagine that situation.
Love the insight into the thought processes of the various archaeologists as they try to unpick how this ancient society organised itself. And the repeated reminder that every idea is still open to interpretation.
Great presentation. Thank you. Concerning burying the dead in specific houses: The idea that comes to my mind is the house you are born in is the house you buried under. Regardless of who you marry, family lineage would be valued. The woman buried with a "relic head" seems to fit this notion.
So very nice of you to read the comments 😀 Things that I noticed are the wondering away from the camera and or the microphone, the single spot light creating a sort of coal mine appearance, and the visual materials they present seem very distant here online, though I'm sure they look great there in person. Makes it a bit hard to follow at times. At times the presenters, in various OI videos not just here, seem almost distracted and not focused on the material at hand. Perhaps they are more accustomed to a room of students who can't really tell them to improve. My thanks to the OI for all the great work you do. 🤗
Yes, there is a possibility. However, it would be a bit strange if differential richness wouldn't be expressed in anything more durable like physical space (in houses or graves), tools, figurines or other ornaments. In the light of available evidence, it seems that burden of the proof would correspond so far to the advocates of inequality.
my theory? the "history houses" are early attempts at spiritual sites, a combination of temple/cemetery where society honored/communicated with their ancestors.
thank you for all the information and your hard work x very interesting but so obvious that is making me so sad that actually nobody can see it...Î know the language they have been spoken there....and what the PIE of all Indo-European languages are..
I still doubt the egalitarian hypothesis. Transegalitarism, similar to North Pacific american hunter-gatherers, with no formal elites but powerful individuals that acumulated power through networks of reciprocity could be a good tentative explanation of the social structure in Catal Hoyuk. Excelent presentation nonetheless.
You're just stating your hierarchical faith. 5000 or 6000 people are not that many and we know of many such sized societies who live with no or almost no violence, thanks to equity and participative democracy. Just travel to Switzerland or Iceland to find much larger societies working in comparable ways, or try Cuba maybe: it's quite participative too. But the most comparable thing would be a middle sized village or very small town: it seldom ever happens anything violent in such small places unless they are socio-economically very degraded.
@@LuisAldamiz What did you make of the blunt force trauma hypothesis? (34:30 , Knusel, Glencross, Milella) That it was a 'ritualized fighting of some sort'. It sounds more likely that this could simply be from common injuries like falls or hunting. The latter also offered as a possible explanation by Marcia Pally (2019).
Agree that survivable blunt-force head injuries were almost certainly not from any sort of ritual fighting. As advanced as they were for the time, I hardly think they developed a padded club.
Two questions: 1) Without streets and many closely attached housing where did you find human waste dumps? In the houses? the empty areas nearby? Or have you located any waste areas? 2) Did you find any polished axe heads? or just napped blades? Thanks
A similar question: With little space among houses, where did the collectivity keep their goats, lambs and pigs? Were they kept at several corrals at the periphery of the town? If so, one could infer that they didn't fear predators (leopards) or thieves.
Very good,it shows how a society can function without the need for violence if everybody obays the rules and cooperate with each other,tie the bonds with marriage strengthens the clan,holding children as ward is an old custom around the world,again strengthens the rules ,you do wrong the child suffers,go,s each way throughout the clan.
You sound quite resonable, do we have any sign about "marriage"? I just wonder... Because that means, quite possibly, there may be infidelity and potential reason for social stress. Partnership may be possible, but "marriage" means claiming sexual and reproductive ownership, and that cause stress from infidelity or supporting one's children more than the rest of the community. Eventually, that would lead rival clans in the sociaty fighting one another for control of the whole setlement.
I find it marvellous that modern notions of heirarchy and status have no basis here, and how sad those who benefitted from this existence may view modern society and how beseiged and impoverished even the richest most technology advanced and urbane folk are as a result of the current state, like so many bacteria polluting a petri dish before its lemming like demise.
@Spoony G - Oooh, deep insightful comment, prole! Your intelligence and education allows you to write half a line of mostly "lol", and there was I believing that finally the proletariat had moved to a highly educated and hyper-connected stage where revolution was finally not just possible but maybe unavoidable. Thanks from correcting my error: there's still much to do.
Ian Hodder isn't a particularly dynamic or compelling speaker. At times, he can be downright tedious. This lecture, however is an exception. Probably his best on RU-vid.
40:00 the houses that are more involved, rebuilt, etc, with more bodies buried and more ritual practice imply larger, longer-lived, more established families with more pride in their ancestry.
I would imagine houses built up by generation, Larger taller homes for larger older families. Natural status would arise for the Oldest houses longest standing families, people would turn naturally to the old wise of the village, older families have older stories that change overtime and become legend.
These analyses suggest to me an essentially egalitarian society based on ancestor clans, where each clan had “ancestor houses” for the burials of its members and differences in food preferences and rituals. Perhaps the “ancestors” were the founding members/families of the settlement, similar to the underlying principles of the different patrician gens in ancient Rome, but without their differences in social status. More spread-out, seemingly random, burials might be associated with the relative “latecomers” in the community. Perhaps burial under the floors of houses were the community norm, but only clan members were buried in clan houses? Perhaps each clan had responsibility for controlling the behavior of its members and the non-lethal, but stunning and painful, blows to the head were punishments and warnings for violent and other anti-social behaviors.
After seeing the dental DNA analyses, I would revise my idea, above, to say that maybe young children were assigned to clans, rather than staying in a clan of their ancestors.
He didn't really answer the question about vacant lots properly: she is asking if the lot was CLEARED OF STRUCTURES or if the existing structure was allowed to fall apart, in situ, as it were. "Vacant" means empty, not merely unused.
Los descendientes de Adán y Eva.......y sus colonias de entrenamiento espiritual!!!!tal como lo describió el libro de urantia.....el segundo jardín del Eden 😱😱😱😱😱😵😵
Why doesn't he bring up the possibility of Functional Similarity as the explanation for the buildings with similar motifs that are spread out between the neighborhoods? Just as our neighborhoods will each have a school, a fire dept., a police station, a church or mosque or temple, a library, etc., so their neighborhoods may have had repeated functions occurring in neighborhood groupings..Oh, the beams and brick-filled arrow motif? Perhaps they'd say: "That's the pattern for the priests of the Moon--of course there is one in each precinct!" If they constantly replastered walls and skulls and painted designs, icons and scenes everywhere, my guess is that certain of the images now being interpreted as mere pattern types are actually recording events, elements in cycles/phases, or divination results. His elder-privilege thesis seems suspect: Who is to say that the obese figurines are necessarily depictive of observed humans and not simply stylized humans used as totems?...In the same way, all the 4 armed figurines of Hindustani temples do not actually depict 4 armed people that someone saw, but rather portray mythical icons/totems/idols. I don't think it's Proto-Indoeuropean because all the classic motifs of PI are missing: where is the trident, the wheel/chariot, the HORSE, the clear reference to a storm/lightning sky god as central among a pantheon, a pantheon period...all of these markers are missing. Finally, is there any evidence of Catal-Höyuk being not only a continuous mini-urbanicity but also a ceremonial/festival/seasonal/defense-based settlement surrounded by a tribe or confederation of tribes whose families dwelt in temporary structures rather than a year round polis of houses? The observation of no obvious genetic links grouping the skeletons, the lack of hierarchy, the lack of next-door fields may suggest a type of ceremonial, occasional or seasonal locus point...or maybe that hunch is bogus.
Often longer. Guess you have not watched many of these. ;-D. I scroll through the first 10-15 minutes. One last year had 3 introductions and 20 minutes before the actual lecture began! Everyone seems to need their ego plumped. ;-D
The hypothesis of the 'farming out' of children is problematic to me (Pilloud and Larsen, 1:04:00). It would be more reasonable to suggest that several areas on the site had more capacity, skill and knowledge to deal with the burial of bodies perhaps with a caretaker of sorts who may have lived at these more ritually inclined houses.
Hi @Hiperborean, Thank you for the feedback! Apologies for the minor sound issues - two mics were used, but there was some interference we have not encountered before. We are working with the vendor to correct the issue. (kb)
Try the I-Ching to understand the houses / burials. And the knocks on the heads comes from theyre worship of vultures, which you never mentioned, they played dead to get anointed in a way by the vultures. I could go on and on with my own research, but 25 years for this? If you need someone more psychedelic (you do) to put things together, consider me.
Some people make the most needlessly pedantic comments on lectures like these. I mean this is irreplicable content about the ins and outs of a neolithic settlement from one of archeology's best, who has a pleasant english accent to boot. and some peasants are really out here saying "mm bit too monotonous for my liking". WOT. These clowns are lucky to not have to read it in book form...
this is embarrassing. 25 years for finding out that it was a settlement with people behaving like people in a settlement. a well deserved downvote for stealing my time.
Sorry for your disapointment but what did you expect, exactly? Aliens, gods,...? They were "one of the first setlements". They were some of the people kind of "invented" the concept of "setlement"...
