Ice Winds are Awful 

Frosty plants should have gotten immunity to the gimmick imo

Winter Melon getting frozen in ice is like a fish drowning

Im convinced this gimmick only exists as to not make pepper pult utterly useless

Tbh I wish that Frost applied to both sides. As in heat plants and cold plants are immune to freeze, as well as cold plants being able to freeze zombies into blocks of ice that act as walls. It would actually encourage different strategies. Do you fight against frostbite with fire and flames, or do you channel the cold to contain corpses in cubes?

The worst part about the frost winds imo is how they can instantly build up and freeze a plant at the start of a wave, even if you have it absolutely surrounded by warm plants. Even better, it also makes Spikeweed and Spikerock practically worthless in half the levels of the world, which is a sin against nature, and in levels outside of Frostbite caves that contain the frost winds, you aren't allowed to grab Hot Potato, which is just baffling.

I really love Frostbite Caves and respectfully disagree with disliking the wind mechanic, though I don't disagree it's not very well implemented. I just think it needed more ways to interact with plants (more heat plants in general while also making all chilling/freezing plants immune to it) to truly work. Maybe another stage or two before it fully freezes as well, to allow more flexible gameplay.

I think making Hot Potato a non-instant, heater only plant would've been more interesting. It would allow you to incorporate heaters INTO your strategy, instead of heaters BEING the strategy. Also I feel like slider tiles are the primary gimmick of the world. Ice winds are brief and vary greatly depending on the level, while slider tiles create unique zombie pathing and have unique interactions with special zombies (Dodo rider, weasel, troglobite).

Ice and Heating half the time make sense and half the time don't when it comes to which plants it can freeze. PopCap can you explain to me why winter melon and snowpea could get frozen and snapdragon couldn't heat (changed now but used to do that) I also wish you could play without heating plants in frostbite caves without getting completely dead. Like Cold snapdragon and some other ice/chill/frost plants are immune to frost but Iceberg Lettuce (literal ice lettuce,) winter melon and snow pea aren't.

I feel like I could forgive ice winds a lot more if there was a free sun producer obtained within/prior to Frostbite Caves that was also a heater. My biggest problem with the world was having to place attackers in stupid spots just to heat my sun producers.

A world mechanic video instead of a plant video? Neat

The first time I played frostbite caves, the gimmick was introduced terribly to me, and it was incredibly difficult to beat because I simply didn't know there was a dumb way to make everything easy.

I have just recently tried pvz2 and I just finished the ice world last week. Legit I kept using the same plants over and over again and again. Snap dragons (that I got back from the pirate world)were so powerful and just broke any challenge the world had

Great writing in this video! The intro transitioned very well into the main topic.

It's a shame the icy wind mechanics aren't that great, cause I believe the other half of the ice theme mechanics, being frozen plants/zombies is a pretty cool idea. Act as Gravestones except they have Plants or Zombies in them upon breaking has a lot of potential in levels. I just wish they played around with that some more, as in the actual world it's not really used all that much. Ether way, Frostbite caves is a very hit or miss world for me. It's (no pun intended istg.) Cool theming is nice, but it's definitely not one of PvZ2's strongest world ideas. Good potential, lackluster execution.

just want to say i absolutely love your thumbnails they are very pleasant to look at

I personally like it. The freezing mehanic is kinda fun and you only need like 4 or so heater plants on the map so its not that limiting.

I believe making all frost plants immune to the gimmick would've made it more interesting. Other than that, in my opinion frost winds are decently made. On the other hand, Frostbite Caves as a world: It is nowhere near the bottom of the list for worst worlds in PvZ2. The slider tile gimmick for one, has some really nice synergy with zombies like the Troglobite and the Dodo Rider, plus the amount of different interactions you can have depending on your plants. (not to mention the awesome BG music) I'm a firm believer that Ancient Egypt is the worst world.

First non-controversial video in a bit, now the Creeps20 hate brigade will hate you for being part of the majority! Exciting change of pace!

Sounds like skill issue /s But fr though, I don't really mind the ice gimmick in Frostbite Caves. I can see your point about how it encourages people to keep using Pepper Pult, but at the same time that plant has such a slow recharge that it can be difficult to spam anyway. I personally went through the entirety of Frostbite Caves without using heating plants (other than Hot Potato) and it was pretty fun imo, it got me to start paying attention to the lobbed plants over just straight shooters since you could randomly have a bunch of plants up front become obstacles. My first time going through the world I used Pepper Pult and Fire Peashooter, and even that got me to start experimenting with asymmetrical plant/sunflower placements

dang; frostbite caves is personally my favourite world with my favourite gimmick; i think the ice winds make it a lot more intersting to actually setup plants since alongside the push tiles; just making rows of stuff isnt ideal. in vanilla; pepper pults slow recharge can be a pain but not just using heater plants isnt that bad at all. at most itll disable some plants for a few seconds which isnt that bad. fire pea makes the gimmick pretty easyand i guess since snapdragon is now a heater; that too; but snapdragon is too good anyways i think. i still find ot easy to use a ton of variety in frostbite caves; with pepper pult being a mainstay; sure; but its not really much harder to pick other stuff for fun i dont think id really mind if instead of pepper pult it was something that was cheaper that only heated plants and that was like the only way to heat stuff. i think its nice to have variety in heating opions but the fact that fire pea; snapdragonand torchwood (i think) have significantly faster recharge times is the only real good way it can become only using heating plants. pepper pults slow recharge kinda balanced the ability to use only heaters cause it made it a lot harder to spam them

For me, frostbite caves mechanically is my favourite world. 3 gimmicks total, 2 of them are new (ice blocks and plants freezing, sliders and snowstorm). Ice blocks are excellent in my opinion, giving more level design opportunitys, and i don't mind the heating mechanic that much. Though the winds can be random (I meen that it can freeze to stage 1,2 and completely) and maybe there should be 1 more stage of freezing at least I think. Mods definitely make it better, having more plants immune (mainly ice ones) and some (ecliPse/AlterVerz) rebalance Hot Potato to be instant recharge but costing sun (so it's like you can pay sun to get rid of blocks instead of destroying/heating them with other plants), so you have more ways to deal with the problem and strategy. Also It introduced the best mower design, *t h e b e a v e r* (And for a while for some reason I thought with troglobytes it introduced new zombie type of bullies, but octo was first) (Should've wrote this comment the day video came out, damn me)

I'll take the cold over the heat nearly any day. Much easier to stay warm than stay cool, Christmas Summer here in New Zealand is really humid and horribly uncomfortable.

Combining freezing winds and dragon imps must be the most annoying level ever.

i think reflorished did this really well where you get access to more plants due to the nature of the mod, and more plants are immune to the cold so its pretty fun there

Well there’s also missletoe that’s also immune to frost, but considering it’s a timed premium plant, probably best to ignore it. Also not disclosed is not all plants heat at the same rate. Pyre vine heats the fastest, whereas everything else is the same for some reason

frostbite caves i think just has the worst combinations, freezing winds with the slider tiles heavily limits your plants and strategies while having the dodo, hunter, and ice pusher zombies allows zombies to stand and gain their ground due to being able to freeze plants, carry multiple iceblocks as shield, and being able to bypass obstacles, while your plants always needs something to counter the ice and limited planting space due to slider tiles. not to mention the garg that throws three imps to further overwhelm your defense and the blockhead zombies which seems to appear more often than other updraded bucketheads of other worlds, and letting your plants getting overwhelmed by ice is more of a death sentence.

As someone who’s replaying PvZ 2 and just beat Frostbite Caves yesterday, yes.

I remember back in the day when this world came out, I felt forced to buy Fire Peashooter, since only pepper could heat and due to skill issue, I couldn't manage it's slow recharge that well, so there goes 100 gems, not that bad since it's still usable, but still, if the feeling or the idea to buy something just to make my time easier was there, I think that was not a good move

It kinda reminds me of lily pad and flower pot in PVZ1. Lily Pad was added to take up one of your seed slots in the pool. If you had six slots, you now have five slots and lily pad. There were a few workarounds such as threepeater or starfruit, but zombies like snorkel and dolphin set the standard. I think this is good because it limits our strategy in a very basic way. You now play with less slots, and some plants will cost 25 more sun. Flower pot took this to a new level. Now, every plant costed 25 more sun, and you still had one less seed slot. The slant in the roof was defiantly more limiting. But, I found it was just easier to plant at the front than rely entirely on the pults, especially since you could just reserve the back for sun producers. The thing with these mechanics, they both limited strategy, but in a very basic way that said you now have less slots, or plants cost more, or you will rely on two cooldowns. Frost Wind limits the game too much. If there were more counterplay, or if they just removed passive heating and nerfed the ice, it would be fine. A bit frustrating, but better than sticking a few plants in the back and getting to ignore frost all together.

Dunno, I don’t think frost is as dominant of a mechanic as you say it to be. Since frost bite levels are on the shorter side in most cases you only need to use only 2 heaters, and since that heats up 3 lines it is enough to complete the whole level. The mechanic basically turns to sacrifice a single seed slot, which is barely an issue especially in an early world like this.

True.

Handling the hundreds of zombies all approaching your house while the frost winds keep freezing everything could've been a bit less tedious if Pepper-pult just had a better recharge, because for some reason it has a 20 second recharge, literally the same as a wallnut

I like Frostbite Caves as a concept. It's an annoying world when I'm actually playing it, but satisfying to get through. The combination of the ice block system and the slider tiles forces players to learn that they can still beat levels with fields which look messy. Optimal (not necessarily symmetrical) fields are desireable, but inoptimal fields can still net the victory, and that's an important lesson for inexperienced players. However, I get what you mean what you argue that Frostbite Caves heavily encourages players to use attacking heaters in place of other attackers. I think that Frostbite Caves is well-designed except for two primary flaws. 1. Pepper-pult is a terrible plant. I was really surprised that you gave Pepper-pult a generous evaluation at 5:37. Pepper-pult's recharge is 20 seconds, while Snapdragon's is 5 seconds. Pepper-pult costs 200 sun, Snapdragon 150. Pepper-pult is a lobber (i.e. attacks can miss) and attacks as slowly as lobbers usually do in comparison to Snapdragon, making Pepper-pult doubly unreliable against Ice Weasels. As a general attacker, Pepper-pult is again doubly unreliable because Snapdragon can actively attack zombies in adjacent lanes and does higher damage to adjacent zombies than Pepper-pult's splash damage does. Pepper-pult is great if you want to challenge yourself further in Frostbite Caves, but I'm not the kind of player to go out of my way to make freezing winds, Ice Weasels, and Troglobites harder to deal with. 2. As of version 10.2.1 and in who-knows-how-many previous versions, Frostbite Caves is right after Wild West instead of somewhere after Dark Ages. The inability to access Fume-shroom without seed packets makes Troglobites very hard to counter without Snapdragon or Hot Potato. Even with Hot Potato, a level which puts a Troglobite in every lane requres a reliable area attacker (with strong splash or evenly distributed damage). I love Snapdragon, but it's boring to use a million times. Otherwise, Troglobite is well-designed because it turns a plant which just froze into a hazard for your other plants and it encourages you to use Hot Potato when your attackers destroy ice blocks too slowly. PvZ 2 Reflourished removed Snapdragon's heating ability (not freeze immunity) and cut Pepper-pult's recharge in half. This not only incentivized me to use Pepper-pult instead of Snapdragon, but also allowed me to rely more on a second attacker and to rely less on Hot Potato. In addition, Reflourished put the worlds back in release order, so I used Fume-shroom to counter Troglobites. Meanwhile, expansion levels which prevented me from using Fume-shroom taught me how to use Hot Potato well against Troglobites. As other commenters mentioned, all cold-based plants should have immunity to freezing winds. Also, it's silly that Cold Snapdragon, which has freeze immunity, sneezes and shivers. Ice Bloom shouldn't shiver either.

Actually, for the first half of dark ages I used tile turnip. It really helps sun shrooms as it makes them all instantly grow back after being eaten or when placed, meaning you can buy much more more expensive plants (after stalling with puff-shroom’s “less than great" (pretty shit) damage and free stallers of course)

as someone whos still getting through the adventure through the first time and just beat frostbite caves fairly recently, i can confidently say that i felt like the cold wind mechanic was making the plant picking process for me basically every level. yeah im not playing without snapdragon and pepperpult i will say i really liked the sliders mechanic, and the tension where some lanes are safer than others up until dodo riders start showing up was pretty cool... but snapdragon also defangs that tension by half because of its ability to threaten multiple lanes cheaply while also defanging icy winds and hunter zombie

The cold never bothered me anyway~ Elsa

good stuff Creeps, love from Australia!

I personally love Frostbite Caves just because the slider tiles, also the music is really good

I feel ice blocks should be an effect of the snowball thrower and a start of the level gimmick only, and the icy winds inflicting a temporary firing speed reduction. Because ice blocks are too punishing for the player doing literally nothing

"Dark Ages where you are forced to run Sunshroom and Puffshroom" Me: **nervous sweating*

i blame this more on the limited range of fire and frost plants in general so little option that are even more narrowed down by some frost plants who can be frozen

Frostbite Caves is my favourite world purely because of how frequently the lawn is obstructed in different ways. It puts a refreshing wrench in the sun spam and columns of whatever tf I felt like spamming that level strat. I really wish more worlds had gimmicks that change the shape of the lawn, like it, Wild West, and Pirate Seas.

The flowers still exist, they're just in the grounds as seeds since they know better than to try and fight the cold.

Nice video overall, I wish you could've been a little more clear, straight to point, and gave your thoughts on how this mechanic could have been improved/fixed though.

I liked this world specifically because I love FIre Peashooter and used it every possible chance I had.

Tbh I like it because it encourages new players to try out new plants, as most of the worlds do, some better than others.

lovin the hollow knight music also good job on the vid

I remember playing Frostburn Canyon back when it first came out. 3 heater plants in the game, 2 were premiums. forced to run Pepper-Pult literally every level ;-;

Another thing is that it doesn't encourage any specific type of strategy. For Wild West the minecarts can make you favor heavier plants and crowd controllers. For Far Future power tiles make you consider plant foods and their combinations more. For Big Wave Beach the tides can make you want to centralize more and use plants that have more bang for their buck. The only strategy frost winds encourage is just use heaters

Cold weather is objectively better than cold weather because you can always put on more clothes but you can only take off so many clothes before you're kicked out of Walmart.

My problem with frost winds is their intensity. The stronger ones can come in and instantly freeze over an entire lane even if every plant in that lane is in the vicinity of a heater. I feel like plants in heating vicinity should gain like, one level of heat resistance, so it only ALMOST fully freezes if it’s right next to a heater. Though it gets a lot more manageable in mods, particularly ones that give Hot Potato an instant recharge.

Definitely agree that the mechanic isn't fun. It's the sole reason I'm probably mot completing the Feastivus event in Reflourished

They just needed to give you a warning for if a level contained them or not! I hate playing Arena or an event and then just randomly it's like "whoops, should've brought Pepper-pult lmao" At least Fire Peashooter is a solid gemium plant because of that plant food power. It's even funnier when you realise that Snapdragon used to not count as a heating plant.

To be honest, if you have the fire vine you can just use whatever strategy and just put a few of those around since they don't use up your space and they produce heat

You don't need to run puffmushroom or sunmushroom, in dark ages, yes it helps, but they aren't required

I love how there's not even a "here's why" or something. It's just "Fuck you. Your favorite mechanic sucks!" (This is my favorite mechanic, or rather was. I'm rethinking now. Thanks!)

of course the very same evening i start getting into (vanilla since i've started a new run without the pre-made progress) frostbite caves. one of my newfound favorite worlds (if only for the music) in reflourished after going through the hell that is big wave beach. creeps20 makes a video detailing how its main mechanic sucks i may or may not have every right to be offended but im not strangely enough sometimes its worthwhile to break down something you enjoy and get an understanding about how flawed it is. better to know its flaws and liking it regardless rather than blindly enjoying it like a fool i suppose

Frostbite caves in general for me was huge pain. I would boot up the game once a week to trudge through a level, sometimes fun, sometimes: jesus christ why did they send 3 ice cube head to the 5th tile with a snowstorm

1:12 "frost winds, as i will be calling them from here on out..." Proceeds to title the video "Ice Winds are Awful"

I think you should have mentioned the far future power tiles as well instead of the mine carts since the mine carts can limit where you put your plants however the power tiles can let you put the plants wherever

I was hoping to spam lightning reed through fc, but the mechanic forced me to spam snapdragon instead bad mechanic

As somebody who has completed 70 levels of icebound battleground (before snap dragon could heat), I can confirm this sentiment.

I think they should turn the hand ice blocks thingies into geysers which warm up plants around them but occasionally burst out with water, destroying plants and zombies.

After Christmas, I get sick of winter. And in my town, we get 7 months of winter

2:27 "it's awfully THAWED out" nice pun ma

8:17 is that a sample of Anthem-Phat Brass 2

As a brit, yes it is on our contract to hate the weather, hot or cold.

Frostbite caves is good just for the music. Love that it sounds like weasels playing kazoos 🐬

I would like to know what this brilliant man's opinion on the Sapfling is. A great video to make for sure. 👀

The problem is how little heaters there are, its a good mechanic but very often your heaters are pepper, torchwood and fire pea. Every level your strat revolves around these 3 plants, and most mods dont add many other heaters, thats the problem. The problem is not with the mechanic but how little heaters there are. And making things like WM imune to frost whouldnt help since your sun prod whould still freeze

The only good thing that frost winds do is make pepper pult good (but pepper pult is a cool plant, so i dont mind frost winds too much)

In my country, there is no snow. Only rain.

Finally someone said it ! I think we should get zombie that acts like an heater that his more resistant to fire and not only helps you by heating your plants but also helps the zombies Wich is really cool

I dunno man I'd take freezing mechanics over low tide any day

I disagree in 3 ways: 1. The point of the mechanic isn't forcing you to use fire plants, it's forcing you to plant around the fire plants which makes you rethink your positioning. 2. I don't know what you're talking about with snapdragon, it's very intentionally a terrible heater to balance out the fact that it's good by itself. The fire has no damage bonus on frozen plants and it barely does anything to defrost the partially frozen plants. Also, because it doesn't have the standard warming property, it can freeze and it doesn't protect plants behind it. So using it has a little bit of benefit compared to other worlds, but I wouldn't trust it without pepperpult. 3. I'm pretty sure this world was made specifically as a sort of middle finger to freezing plants. Because of how many people would normally rely on them (specifically winter melon), the world was built to force people out of this habit.

"the cold makes everything related to Christmas awful" Me a brazilian suffering with the heat:i don't have such weakness

How does octo get more hate than frostwinds. Octo forces specific plants but dies horribly to them and yet frostwinds is the same but is not complained about as much.

i think frostbite is way better then big wave beach. because its less frustrating. still tho i think to fix this popcap should make ice plants also immune to freezing winds given that they are already ice anyway. this would give you more options and give hot potato more of a use.

Fungal waste ost at the start is just 👌

I would say a human rights violation

Say what you want about frostbite caves, but no matter what it’s music SLAPS

Especially when you play Frostbite caves endless mode.

I think it would be pretty easy to improve the mechanic. Make it so a lot of plants are immune to frost, such as ice plants and underground plants, so that then you would be given the choice between using a unique immunity-based strategy or just use a different strategy with heaters to try support it.

did anyone notice that the fungal wastes ost was playing at the start?

I feel like more plants should've been immune to it, like all frost plants being immune, including plants like Holly Barrier and Sap Fling.

I feel like wall plants should absorbe the entire wind, which would give hot potato more uses since now theres one fully frozen plant instead of a bunch of half frozen ones.

Pretty good, thanks for offering your opinion.

the music of frostbite cave slaps regardless though!

I guess we could say that Frostbite Caves needs to _chill_ *end me*

Except when you're actually happy at the moment, I agree, Christmas is pretty overrated and not nearly as great as everyone makes it out to be. I do like the family aspect, though, but that still only counts when you have a nice family. That being said, NICE, a new analysis/explanation video!

So a non plant-themed vid. Nice.

Hot Potato actually has tech to stop ice blocks from being pushed :P

The only thing that saved me on Frosbite Caves was Snapdragon's buff to a heater. Pepperpult is pretty useless now in comparison.

as someone currently in this world playing through the first time, yeah you've read a lot of my points about why I don't like it so much don't get me wrong, it's not IMPOSSIBLE to deal with, but it's just really forced and annoying my main issues honestly come from both the heat plants AND the heat mechanic in tandem, as not only does having only CERTAIN plants be usable screw up my plant placement all the time, but if I don't I pretty much get a straight ticket to hell, so it's just nothing but restricting, honestly wish the ice slide tile things were the only mechanic in the world

I found out randomly that snapdragon thawed. I just saw the fire symbol on it and decided to test it

Btw pyre vine works really well as you can plant in it still and dont have to waste space

Snapdragon isn't a heat plant in many mods and older versions. So I am using Lava Guava in Altverz rn

Frostbite caves is probably my favorite world outside of gameplay. The music and the aesthetics are just perfect for my tastes, and it's just a really fun time...Unless you actually play it. Using pepper pult and only pepper pult in 30 levels is NOT fun.

I love the use of hollow knight music

it's indeed annoying, but torchwood exists.