ICF Floor Systems : How to Install Open Web Joists on an ICF Wall Using Lavann Hanger's

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NOTE: Watkins ICF Hangers are the replacement for the Lavann and you can save 10% by using this promo code. Go to watkinshanger.com/ and use promo code "UPTOKODE2020" to save 10% on your order. Unfortunately the Lavann hanger is no longer available but the Watkins hanger is the same concept.
Lavann hanger's are one of the easiest and best ways to hang a floor joist system from an ICF wall. We show you how to install the hangers but also some of the planning steps so you know what needs to be done in advance. Once the hanger's are ready for installation we show you several tips for your ultimate success. We even scan the floor after installation to prove we aren't full of BS. It's a fast, easy system and compared to the Simpson system the Lavann way is less labour, easier on tools, and far cheaper. If you need more info on what the Simpson ICF Floor system then please let me know.
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I'm Kody Horvey, owner of Up To Kode; a full service carpentry, contracting and consulting company that proudly serves Red Deer and all of Central Alberta.
We are committed to being Central Alberta’s most sustainable and energy efficient builder with a strong focus on quality and innovation.
Our vision is to continually implement and increase the use of high efficient building practices and products to create sustainable, multi generation structures.
Here on RU-vid, we hope to share our work, get you inspired, and give you the knowledge to plan and execute your own projects.
Questions? Just ask! Email kody@uptokode.com
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Опубликовано:

22 апр 2018

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Комментарии : 151

@JMaxwell1000 4 года назад

Excellent presentation! Concrete / ICF or the Hambro/iSpan types are a MUST for people who live in F5 tornado areas. When the roof is gone, there's no protection left. Concrete roofs offer the best protection to the inhabitants.

@uptokode 4 месяца назад

I totally agree

@AdvantageWealth 5 лет назад

Great video..thanks! Definitely a consideration on our next home

@geneduclos4003 2 года назад

Wow! Watching this video cleared up a lot for me. Thanks Kody!

@uptokode 2 года назад

Thanks Gene! We will be chatting soon

@ScottishNSRailFan 5 лет назад

I have a three storey in Palm Beach County, using ICF, for the walls, floors and roof. Hurricanes, not a concern, when we are away on vacation.

@uptokode 5 лет назад

Peace of mind!

@byronlaw6724 3 года назад

It's interesting to see photos of disaster aftermaths where there are rows of homes destroyed and in the middle of the destruction there is a single home still standing no problem...Huh, an ICF home. Cool.

@michelefritts6953 2 года назад

Photos??

@beyondhorizons9758 3 года назад

Simple and beautiful ! If I ever build another house it will be ICF.

@uptokode 4 месяца назад

Yes for sure!

@squeekhobby4571 3 года назад

Awesome stuff. Saw folks using hangers with screws to hold wood beam across the wall. You have shown a cool technique

@uptokode 4 месяца назад

Thank you

@ilikedirt250 3 года назад

I'm really enjoying these videos. Great explanations. Those Lavann hangers look so easy to use. Great job team...keep the videos coming!

@gibsonahmed7584 2 года назад

i guess Im randomly asking but does someone know of a method to log back into an Instagram account..? I somehow lost the account password. I appreciate any tricks you can offer me!

@emiliolucca9224 2 года назад

@Gibson Ahmed instablaster =)

@gibsonahmed7584 2 года назад

@Emilio Lucca Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site through google and im in the hacking process atm. Seems to take a while so I will reply here later with my results.

@gibsonahmed7584 2 года назад

@Emilio Lucca it did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. I'm so happy:D Thank you so much, you saved my account !

@emiliolucca9224 2 года назад

@Gibson Ahmed No problem :D

@themkhgha 3 года назад

Love you show man, icf is the way to go. Thank you.

@uptokode 3 года назад

You betcha!! More ICF videos coming soon. Been waiting for some projects to come along and we have some cool ones fall of 2020 and spring of ‘21

@themkhgha 3 года назад

I just connected with a developer who is building 9 units right next to my house, I asked him to work for free and in return he would teach me the trade. I would like to specialize in icf. Do you think that would be sustainable?

@uptokode 3 года назад

I would take someone up on that deal. Great idea.

@TheMarpalm 5 лет назад

Great video!

@uptokode 5 лет назад

Thank you!

@joed837 2 года назад

Hey Kode, not sure if you've touched on this but around 6:50 you show the beam in the basement and it's LVL, do you have an extended top cord on those floor trusses? Do you like this system over steel ibeam with trusses sitting on top? I am starting my ICF build in spring 2022 and am looking for some last min fine details. Thanks in advance, your videos are what swayed me to build ICF! Thanks again from SW Ontario

@bryanverberg4342 3 года назад

Wow looks strong

@crystalclearaquarium 2 года назад

Great video. Thanks

@uptokode 2 года назад

You’re welcome

@user8ZAKC1X6KC 6 лет назад

I just found how I want my next house built!

@uptokode 6 лет назад

I like hearing that. Let me know if you need more info and help. I can make more videos to accommodate.

@Penny-bt4gc 2 года назад

We are finally starting our ICF house this month.

@uptokode 2 года назад

Very very good! Email me pics throughout and I’ll include you in a fan feature film. kody@uptokode.com. All the best! And email if you have questions

@frauleingermany4435 Год назад

So where do you plan the cold joints for the different pours? Are the cold joints a little weaker or can they leek?

@barrydennis6763 5 лет назад

Hi where can i buy the levann joist hangers I can’t find them any where

@Dan_Hall 5 лет назад

Who do you recc? to do a full engineered house plans (Full walkout basement and second floor ICF, plumbing, electrical, etc) for a custom home? Building in Montana. I know what I want and what It looks like. Just need someone (architect) familiar with ICF to do the full plans for the builders. Also, do you know of a quality ICF builder in Montana? Thanks !!!

@thebaldman72 4 года назад

Beauty system.. Canadian like me, eh?? Lol.. I agree though.. It is a beauty..

@jesuscamacho2583 3 года назад

Where can you buy those Lebanon joist hanger? Can’t find them at Home Depot or Lowe’s.

@Dawid973 5 лет назад

6:54 can you explain how trusses seats on center main beam?

@chrisisinthehouse1 3 года назад

What's your opinion of the perfect block and ef block?

@Kevinwbaker100 3 года назад

Is there a Canadian distributor for the Watkins hanger?

@williammackey7243 4 года назад

Will you put a link to the hanger on here please?

@ashleymarks6144 4 года назад

AH. I get it. Between the basement and main floor, its ok to have a cold joint then.

@pwashcroft 4 года назад

Such great info. Thank you!

@sebastiantevel898 3 года назад

Thank you for explaining all this clearly in details for everyone to understand. I wanted to ask if you have ever used these Lavann/Watkins hangers with steel joists as iSpan, C Joist or similar. I would like to use this combination on an incoming project, also laying structural concrete subfloor panels over the joists.

@uptokode 3 года назад

I have not used the hangers in that application before. I’m sure load wise it’s no issue. You probably need to verify how to secure it.

@sebastiantevel898 3 года назад

@@uptokode Thank you for answering. I have not gone more in depth researching, but it seems that is possible to use screws and fill the space inside the C joist with lumber as it is done with I Joists.

@bbmw9029 3 года назад

I know this is old now, but if the author is still watching, how about not using wood floor joists, but using an ICF floor decking system. Set up your vertical basement wall fomrs get an ICF decking system and get that stood up on shoring, do the rebar for the floor deck, tying it into the rebar for the walls, then pour the basement walls first floor deck at one time, making it a monolithic concrete structure. If you're doing this in Tornado alley, you now would have a pretty good storm shelter in the basement. I'd also look to do the roof the same way. Why have ANY structural wood.

@oldporkchops 5 лет назад

Hi Kody, In case of a fire and after the foam has melted through, these first floor joists will still remain attached because they're attached using rebar to the concrete structure. Is this understanding correct?

@cwehbe 5 лет назад

You are correct. Both the rebar will go through holes in the hanger and the concrete will surround the hanger as well. I've used them and they are super tough.

@philweed1603 9 месяцев назад

Watch it 1.5x speed so you don’t fall asleep. You’re welcome

@bigkz34 3 года назад

Do you do work in Nashville

@joshanderson4372 3 года назад

So I’m putting an addition on my home and we decided to go icf all the way up which is basement and 2 floors. Do we pour the icf walls one floor at a time then? So we would have 3 different pours for the walls?

@tomkelly8827 10 месяцев назад

yes

@TriDaddy 4 года назад

Hey Kody, I assume these are interior only? Trying to learn more on ICF and a second story deck.

@stephentaylor9366 3 года назад

Matthew, you can extend the ICF out of the exterior wall with a “T-block” and by adding the proper rebar both vertical design horizontally you can cantilever support out for your decking. You can support this along the wall with what we call “bump-outs” of block, giving the decking a good solid base to start from. Depending on the depth of the deck, you may be able to engineer it to support the entire deck surface? That’s an engineering question. Of course exterior columns are the easiest, but these can be built from ICF too! I’ve used waste blocks (those pieces that are cut from regular runs on the walls to assemble and pour these piers. The uses of ICF are endless if you can find someone who will work with it. All the engineering data is readily available from most manufacturers and will reduce the costs of hiring an engineer to figure out wha this best. Typically, I have located a retired P.E., and offered him the part-time work. They tend to love something to do, and will work cheaper.

@TriDaddy 3 года назад

@@stephentaylor9366 bump outs = brick ledge? I had heard of using brick ledge but I’m trying to make sure water doesn’t get inside the forms anywhere. I’ve also seen cutouts in the exterior of the block to allow the concrete to come to the surface- but same concern there with potential for water intrusion. Probably should make it a covered deck and stop worrying ;)

@stephentaylor9366 3 года назад

@@TriDaddy I’m not talking about a “brick ledge” block. I’m talking about a “TEE” block If you’re looking at the good block makers, they’ll have that TEE block in their stock. BTW, if you’ve got a contractor who knows what he’s doing, they’ll be NO leaks. Find one that understands concrete pours. And, if nothing else, seal the ledge with good waterproofing. There are bituminous materials that make excellent water barriers, and they have an adhesive side. I personally affixed a treated 2x12 ledger board to the home surface, anchored it to the wall with threaded “j” bolts which protruded through the block wall and ledger board, but back into the poured wall. If it ever needed to be replaced, you simply remove the nuts and replace it. One hint: you need a slight fall to your deck surface for drainage. So, you can actually attach a treated 1x4 to the back of the ledger board, and this will give you the needed angle to drain the deck. That way your flooring is attached flat to your ledger board. Remember, built your piers from ICF block. You can actually set them on end, and pour them that way, blocking each exposed surface with ply board that is removed once the concrete is set. Then they can be veneered with whatever matches the house. Or, you can pour a header wall out of block from the tee block to the piers. This will lessen the number of support piers needed, and assure you the decking will never move.

@uptokode 3 года назад

Sorry I didn’t respond. The hangers can be used for exterior decks and the like but I wouldn’t do it personally. Very hard to keep water out and we all know a deck ledger can be a real bugger for water infiltration. I like to use the waterproof membrane that goes below grade and I do a 24” width where my deck ledger goes. The width can be whatever you want. Just make sure you can lap it from below (shingle effect) and lap it from above. For the ledger you can space it away from the wall with spacers or cut thin kerf cuts in the backside of the ledger so water doesn’t get trapped. Lots of ways of doing it.

@notyou6950 4 года назад

Still, fire will gut the shell of the house. Spend extra on poured concrete floor and cap it off with concrete plate. My brother built his place just like this. My father build his with concrete caping every level and fully insulated 14 inch thick walls. I feel safest in my father's house. It's hurricane, fire and tornado proof.

@cyoungso 5 лет назад

We are looking at doing an ICF house. What about slab floors?

@uptokode 5 лет назад

Easy to work into your design. Fortruss is one brand of suspended floor that is easy to install and supplies great R-value which is important for bonus rooms above a garage. There’s other system out there too. Some are steel joists with Q-decking and then the slab on top of that. Definitely do-able and a fantastic design element

@davidgoodwin5778 3 года назад

With the hangers inserts what happens if you land on a plastic ICF stud? Or if you start with out contact on a stud will it be consistent on 16 or 24 inch center? My plans call for 2X10 16 inch centers with anchored ledger how much trouble would I have to switch to open joist?

@uptokode 3 года назад

You have to stick with 16” or 24” centres. When doing open web joist I go 24”. Can’t do a 19 3/16 space because they conflict with the ties.

@yuantronz45 6 лет назад

I keep seeing “ICF walls” but is the system suitable for staircases, upper floors, roofs, and balconies?

@uptokode 6 лет назад

Yes it is. Very universal in design so the ideas are endless. I’m just trying to get folks to realize you can use ICF for more than basements. After that then we show them suspended concrete floors, custom stairs, etc.

@gtiggsmusicstudent 4 года назад

i have developed a massive interest in this too and yes i have notices it is very versatile

@dougtratch8260 2 года назад

Hey Cody. Another great video on the benefits of ICF. A question I had and you probably already answered it, but I contacted a construction company about building a complete ICF two storey gabled house. Perhaps 24 to 2500 Sq ft. They were pretty advanced in their philosophies about building a greener home. We want to build on Vancouver Island but he suggested that only the foundation be ICF. The rest he stated to do in SIP, which he felt was less susceptible to the waviness of ICF. I think he’s talking out of his butt because I’ve watched a multitude of videos on bracing ICF. It’s critical to be diligent from the start. One other question I had was, how accommodating are municipalities to this type of construction? I’m fascinated by building our next and final home with ICF and wondered if cities areas revolutionary as I’d like to be. Thanks Doug in Vancouver.

@uptokode 2 года назад

Hey Doug. Great question. You are totally correct in saying that the guy is full of it. Only the short cut guys will have issues. Every ICF we have poured is as straight as the stringline. AND an ICF will never change either. It’s the only true monolithic wall assembly. SIPS is a gingerbread house. No thermal mass. It needs a floor and roof to complete its structural integrity. ICF is the ONLY system that can self support before the roof goes on. You really can’t compare anything else to it. Email me if you need anything else. Kody@uptokode.com.

@JohnWilson-xi2wu 5 лет назад

When you stack the icf due to you stagger the joints?

@nc3826 5 лет назад

As a general rule its always a good idea to stagger joints, for any task in construction.....Joints are a natural weak point.... So offsetting the joints, mitigates that weakness.... And it even applies to less related issues like water penetration like when installing shingles....

@RJM1011 4 года назад

Could you give me the name of a manufacturer of those hangers please so I can look them up learn more and who stocks them ? Thank you for the video.

@RJM1011 4 года назад

@@timstriff3354 Thank you yes I found some Simpson ones that use wood also they cost a lot more plus the cost of the wood I will have to see again if Simpson make ones like the ones used in the video. Thank you.

@pack_9mm 6 лет назад

Hi Cody. Where can I find these lavann hangers? Thank you.

@uptokode 6 лет назад

What country do u live in?

@pack_9mm 6 лет назад

Kody Horvey I am in Washington state. Whatcom county. Thank you.

@flintbrann6555 3 года назад

ICF blocks settle down when they are being filled so how do you account for that in your FF heights?

@uptokode 3 года назад

You could account for 1/4 to 3/8 inch. I’ve never actually calculated the drop. Been using Nudura for a few years and they settle less because the snap ties actually clip together so it add more support.

@kjy7440 Год назад

Do you prefer the Lavann hangers or the Simpson icflv 2 part hangers

@uptokode Год назад

Lavann hangers by a mile ! But you have to use Watkins hangers now.

@oscarbostan1029 3 года назад

Hi Kody, Great informative video. Tried using your code and its expired. Could you ask the company for a new coupon code. Thanks.

@anthonyking7849 2 года назад

Is thermal bridging an issue? Looks like you are bypassing half of your insulation. May be a problem for passive house.

@uptokode 2 года назад

I could show you infrared images of the ICF wall with those hangers. Very minimal thermal bridging because we still have continuous insulation on the exterior. Email me if you want photos. kody@uptokode.com. ICF, in my mind, is ideal for passive house. Very air tight. I’ve achieved 0.42ACH and 0.23ACH with virtually no effort. It’s very easy to add insulation to an ICF wall (I have videos on all this) without adding labour.

@lazyweapon7 5 лет назад

What if you put your floor system in before you poured the concrete into the walls?

@crosisofborg5524 3 года назад

The foam blocks would never hold the weight

@tomnjudychalmers 6 лет назад

I live in Ontario. Are these available in Canada?

@uptokode 6 лет назад

Yes the Lavann hangers are available in Canada.

@cyoungso 5 лет назад

@@uptokode this looks like Calgary

@mikegrant8031 4 года назад

Why wait so long to pour the bottom slab, seems like after the walls are up it would be a lot nicer to work on.

@cindyrobinson1549 3 года назад

Can you provide a link to buy these?

@uptokode 3 года назад

Google Watkins ICF hanger. Use promo code UPTOKODE2020 for a discount

@michelefritts6953 2 года назад

Does the rebar go in horizontally or vertically or both? Can you just do vertical as long as the cement has the fiber mixed in?

@uptokode 2 года назад

Rebar goes both way. Horizontal in each row of ICF block. Offset each row so that the verticals drop in after and sit into position and don’t fall against the foam. Hard to explain but the ties are designed for this. For below grade I wouldn’t recommend the fibre mesh. Not to say you can’t use it but you need a fair bit to replace the rebar. PLUS vertical rebar is almost more important than horizontal in a backfill situation

@michelefritts6953 2 года назад

@@uptokode Yes, that is my understanding. So it would be a major problem if they don’t have horizontal rebar then?

@michelefritts6953 2 года назад

@@uptokode We had a builder do our first floor walls with a fiber mesh mix, and vertical rebar. He has since walked off the job so we need to see if that is sufficient to keep going with the second floor. Thanks for your advice!!

@uptokode 2 года назад

I suspect so. If you are concerned try to find out how much mesh was in the mix. Then give that info to a structural engineer for verification. They will also need backfill height.

@uptokode 2 года назад

Sorry to hear about them walking off !!

@thanehillestad2 5 лет назад

Where can I purchase these Lavann Hangers? I can't find any distributers, the job is located in Utah.

@uptokode 5 лет назад

They are mostly available in Canada. I am slowly working on having them available in the USA

@jeromek8723 5 лет назад

Kody, I know you say the Lavann hanger is mostly available in Canada. A Google search doesn't turn up any links to them specifically. Does the company have a website that you could post for those of us who are interested in their specific design?

@simonc4817 5 лет назад

@@uptokode Can you tell me where to buy these in Canada? I can't find them anywhere online. Thank you! Great video. I'm in Ottawa

@ralphballtripii9423 Год назад

Where can you buy those joist hangers

@uptokode Год назад

Check out Watkins hangers. They are equivalent

@kenjackson4177 5 лет назад

Why not use the ICF forms that buck out to form a ledge platform the sit the joists on?

@uptokode 5 лет назад

I believe you are referring to the brick ledge ICF blocks. I don’t use that method mostly because my heights are always custom and would rarely meet that height. It is a good idea though if it works for you.

@Joshua79C 5 лет назад

@@uptokode Brick ledge are not really made for such and if you look up Fox Block Curb Block, that system is far better than brick ledge, as curb block is what Ken is likely referring to.

@approots 5 лет назад

@@Joshua79C A brick ledge will work if the resulting slope below is acceptable - like in a crawl space. The curb block won't work if continuing above the joists with icfs and also you lose the interior insulation. A width transition in combination with a taper block could work but the transition needs to be 4" (like going from 10" foundation block to 6" wall block).

@kenjackson4177 3 года назад

@@Joshua79C Thanks for the comments, I did some more research on the blocks, I believe the brick ledge block “should” work. Remember it’s placed reversed so the ledge is on the interior. The the remaining ICF block continues on up, no change in wall dimensions. The ledge looks to be a good 4 inches to rest you rim joist and edges of the floor joists on. No issues of embedding brackets etc. The only issue is see is this finishing of this “buck out” Maybe boxing it in like boxing in a duct. Great place to put pot lights in. Kody, the other idea,,, what if you screw the rim joist into the plastic webs first. The webs are certainly strong enough to hold them in place to start. THEN, drill threw the rim joist and the foam, and poke a bolt through it all. When the concrete is poured, the bolt will be embedded, and then once cured, tighten up the nut on the basement side, and then add your hangers. Bobs your uncle. I’ve seen a similar idea done with the sill plate. Pre drill the plate, add anchor bolts to the plate, and once the wall is poured and troweled flat, drop on the sill plate with the anchors already attached. Tap down so nice and level, screw tight once the concrete sets.

@hameedtalebi2351 3 года назад

What if you want to do a wallout basement type of project with ICF? Let's say 9' ceiling in the basement+ 4' for frost line. So basement ICF walls has to be 13'. You can't pour 13' concrete in a day. Right?

@uptokode 3 года назад

You can. I don’t like doing it because it’s hard to vibrate the bottom and the bracing shields are only 10’ tall so you have to rig up an extension. I like to pour 5’ or so for the frost wall, then backfill, then complete the whole basement at once. Jury is out on which is more efficient

@seanf7810 4 месяца назад

Do all icf manufacturers recommend subermeged vibrators? I've heard it can cause walls to bulge a little.

@uptokode 4 месяца назад

@seanf7810 I don’t know what they recommend specifically. I know from experience that it needs to be done. Yes sometimes the butt joints in the block bulges very slightly. A quick rasp makes it true again.

@cjacob2335 4 года назад

how long does it take ( average time) to build a house ex one in video?

@uptokode 4 года назад

We build a 2000 sq ft house with a 3 man crew in 7 months. That’s with a 1200 sq ft attached garage and basement was framed, rough-ins complete and exterior ICF foam had drywall on it to meet code. We only hired out plumbing, electrical and HVAC. We did the rest. Depending on many factors, you could obviously do it in less time by increasing trades on site and sub contracting to more people to push the schedule

@cjacob2335 4 года назад

@@uptokode great

@alinaarchibald5599 5 лет назад

Would this work for i-joists?

@uptokode 5 лет назад

Yes absolutely!

@elaineirvin1 5 лет назад

Corey do you have a facebook? We are looking to build an ICF home by ourselves. I find your videos to be extremly helpful. I do production videos and I was looking to do one on our future ICF build. is there a better way to communicate with you?

@elaineirvin1 5 лет назад

you can find me on facebook under elaine diana cieslak

@uptokode 5 лет назад

Maybe DM me on Facebook at Kody Horvey. Or go to the about section and find my email. I would like to know more about your plan

@BondJamesBond 3 года назад

A makita guy. Tells you a lot about him.

@uptokode 3 года назад

Is that a good thing or a bad! Haha.

@CIULLASQUAD 4 года назад

How do you do hvac?

@uptokode 4 года назад

We design the joists to be minimum 20” tall and areas with square or rectangular access to fit a supply line down. Also one for return air. I plan those with the truss plant and my HVAC contractor.

@abefroman3903 3 года назад

what do those shield / braces cost

@uptokode 3 года назад

This system is called Giraffe. Last one I bought was $5200 CAN

@abefroman3903 3 года назад

@@uptokode how many pieces for that price

@rockrl98 4 года назад

Concrete floor plz

@krossnkuss2875 5 лет назад

A house with ICF floor would probably survive a “sinkhole” disaster right? I remember about 5 years ago or so in Florida , a guy named Jeff Bush was swallowed completely with his house, it was a typical stick frame house. Look this event up on here with his brothers name Jeremy Bush. Really sad and scary......

@uptokode 5 лет назад

An ICF home with concrete floors would definitely increase your chances of survival. It wouldn’t or at least shouldn’t crumble. But depends how deep it sinks !! Scary for sure!

@tristanrivera9594 2 года назад

Couldn't you just use anchor bolts?

@uptokode 2 года назад

You can. It would be a bit more work than you think because you need concrete around the anchor bolt and flush with the foam. That would entail having the bolts mounted to the ledger board in advance. Or something like that. I never put much though into it.

@AGTtactical 3 года назад

This is why using concrete slabs works better...just stack on the poured wall.

@kennethayres4106 3 года назад

24 inch to center to center floor joists? 16 inch maximum for quality construction unless 2 layers of sub floor with 4 foot offset over lay.

@davidgoodwin5778 3 года назад

My opinion.......Using 2 dimensional lumber 16 on C is the way to go but with open joist the 24 inch on center you got 3 1/2 inch face to attached to VS 1 1/2.

@roadkillontheweb 4 года назад

Their website does not work and I can not find anyone that carries them in the states. Did they go out of business? Looks like a good idea but if you can not buy them they are worthless.

@johnnyfred2125 3 года назад

Why not set the trusses and deck before the pour? The added bonus is that everything gets squared and tied together. Then the bracing is only required for small adjustments to the walls.

@uptokode 3 года назад

It’s a good thought and I’ve toyed with the idea. Jury is still out.

@therealdiehl4671 4 года назад

Looks like a good system. I wish you tube producers would realize how useless and distracting the background "music" is. I survived 13 years of public education and about 3 hours a week of bible teaching and preaching with out music behind the presentation.