If a Car Dealer DOES THIS, LEAVE IMMEDIATELY | 5 Red Flags 

Last car we financed, they offered to buy a point off our APR if we got the extended warranty. I asked to look at the contract for the warranty and found a 30 cancellation policy. So I told them to add it on, got my point off, and went in 2 days later to cancel the warranty. Play stupid games, wind stupid prizes. 🤣

I called a dealership one time and informed her that I wanted to buy a new car. She told me they were all on coffee break. I traveled to the nearest town with the same make of car and the salesman was very courteous and helpful...no pressure. I bought his car and asked him to call his associates dealership and tell them situation. He couldn't stop laughing.

I remember a dealer including a line item advertising fee, about $150 in 1985, if I remember correctly. I noticed it as I was preparing to sign the deal. I crossed it out, pointing out that advertising is one of their costs of doing business. They balked, I walked. The next day they called me with an offer excluding the ad fee. " No, I bought an identical truck at a dealer twenty miles away for $100 under MSRP including all fees and taxes, and they threw in a chrome step bumper in the deal." "Oh, yes. We can match that." "Too late, but I'll tell ALL my friends about my experience with you."

My dad is hands down one of the best negotiators I've ever seen at a dealership he went to Gillespie Ford (now shut down) said he was looking for a specific truck and to check out his trade in while he perused the lot. Found the truck he was looking for but never even got to talk price because they offered him $2,000 trade in on a $15,000 vehicle. He laughed in their face and said no I'll take my keys and leave they said oh the keys have been locked up in the safe for the day since it was 4:00 in the afternoon. He said that's okay and pulled the spare key out of his pocket and said you can mail them to me. The sales manager's face was priceless.

My son asked me to go with him to purchase his first car. This was about 8 or 9 years ago. We went to the dealership, he had a car in mind that he wanted. Everything went well until we got in the finance department. I felt the price was fair for the dealership and my son. In the finance department, the guy started selling all kinds of warranties, paint protection, seat protection, on and on and on. Everything he offered, my son would look at me to ask my advice. Of course, my advice was, no you don’t need that. At one point, the finance guy look at my son and said, and I quote, “who’s buying this car, you or him (him referring to me)”. At that point I said to my son, come on let’s go. Full stop. If you are a sales person, don’t ever disrespect a parent that is trying to help a young person. If the parent is giving wrong or bad advice, help them to understand why it’s wrong.

Last time I went to a dealership I already had all my ducks in a row and wasn't trading anything in. I knew what i wanted to pay for the car and what my payments would be financing through my credit union. When we sat down i just told the guy "look, I'm not here to waste anyone's time, so go get your closer and let's get this taken care of cause if we do the back and forth thing on pricing I'm just going to get up and leave." There's just too much information available online that all it takes is a little research and some balls to tell them to stop treating you like an idiot.

Years ago my brother tried to buy a car. He had re-enlisted in the Navy and had his bonus check in the bank ready to pay cash. They refused to let him test drive the car of his choice. Now this is years ago and the car was a Mercury Cougar. He then went to the Pontiac dealership. They were more than happy to let him drive the pretty bright blue firebird on the lot. So behind the wheel of the Firebird he goes back to Mercury waves at the salesman stopped and said to him how do you like MY new car? Proud of my brother!

A long time ago, when I was first looking for cars, a salesperson once told me that I needed a co-signer. I asked how that would work, and he said “you’re just borrowing their credit score and income to debt ratio to get the car you deserve.” That was a red flag. When I asked what would happen to the co-signer if I didn’t make the payments, he said “nothing at all.” I clarified by asking if they’re responsible for the payment if I can’t make it, and he said no. That was a major red flag. I may have been young, but I sure as hell wasn’t stupid. I told him that I wouldn’t be doing business with a person or dealership that would flat out lie about credit and consequences, and walked myself to the bus stop with him calling after me.

I was looking for a new pickup truck, so I drove to the three major dealers in my small town. I should add that I’m a petite woman, and was in my late 40s. When I walked inside the first showroom there were two salesmen having coffee, so I let them have their break while I checked out all the models in the showroom. Neither approached me, so after about 15 minutes I went over and asked “Do either of you work here? Where are the salesmen?” And now their reply: “Oh, we were waiting for your husband to come in.” I bought my truck that day…. at a dealership down the road. P.S. I have a tractor too

I was at a dealer once, negotiating price on a new car, and the salesman kept getting up to “check with his manager.” I politely asked him if HE can sell the car or if his manager should be sitting across from me. He assured me that he could sell me the car. I then told him, “Good, you don’t need to get up again and we can get this finalized.” A look of horror flashed on his face. We went back and forth on the price and I pulled out a newspaper ad from his dealership with the price I wanted to pay for the car I wanted to buy. He stood up to “check with his manager” and I told him firmly to “sit back down” and reminded him of what we had talked about earlier. “If you stand up again, I’m leaving and will buy my car elsewhere.” Horror again filled his face, but he insisted on talking with his manager. I stood up, too, and began to grab my baby and get my wife going toward the door. The manager hurriedly rushed after us. “Are you really going to leave?” he asked. “Your salesman is wasting my time, so I’m done.” We walked out. A few weeks later, I stopped by the dealership on a Saturday morning in my new car and intentionally parked it right in front of the door where the customers and salespeople would be most inconvenienced by it. I went in and saw the salesman, who recognized me and smirked a bit, thinking that I was coming back to buy the car from him. I ignored him and looked for the manager. Walked up to him and reminded him who I was and pointed at my parked car. “I bought it at a dealership that doesn’t play games like you guys do,” I said fairly loudly in front of a bunch of customers. “Got a better price, too. Thanks for encouraging me to go elsewhere.” I turned to leave and was stopped by an older couple who had heard the exchange. They literally had their checkbook in their hands as they asked me where I had bought my car. I told them where and the name of my salesman. They literally walked past their salesman as he was coming back from checking with his manager. I assume that dealer lost that sale, too. It was a GREAT way to start my Saturday.

I went to test drive a used 2014 GMC truck earlier this year. It was at a local Kia dealer. I was talking out loud as I checked the interior. "Leather seats.....dual zone climate...." to which the salesman said that he didn't really know much about these trucks as he mostly sells Kias. Before purchase, I checked with my independent mechanic who I have been bringing my vehicles to for over 20 years for advice. He said the torque converter in that truck is for shit and it will kill the transmission, which will cost you about $4k for a new one. I double checked with a local transmission shop for a second opinion and he verified this. So I went back and told the salesman I was going to pass on the deal due to the impending tranny issues, and this guy (who already admitted to not knowing much at all about trucks) said "Who are you going to believe? Me or your mechanic?" Unbelievable.

Two warnings given me by a former Chrysler executive who was the VP of franchise operations. Always park at the curb, never pull onto the dealer's lot. The dealer will box your car in if you want to leave without buying. They will say we don't know who is boxing you in, they then make a phony announcement on the intercom, meanwhile subjecting you to hard sell techniques. Never give the salesrep your car keys for trade-in test drive. Give them a spare, this stops the 'we lost your keys, somehow', again putting pressure on you since you can't leave.

Saleswoman literally stood in front of a door and wouldn’t let me and my brother leave without him buying a used Dodge van. They worked overtime trying to bury it in my brother. The woman stepped out of the way once she realized that I was going to muscle my way around her. That dealership is LONG GONE.

About 20 years ago, my wife and I went to Davis Acura in Langhorne, Pa. to look at an Acura TL. We liked the car and decided to get the price from the salesman. We agreed on a price and my wife and I went home to get the title to our trade vehicle. When we got back, the price had gone up. We asked the salesman what was going on. He told us that while we were gone, the general manager had nixed our deal and told him we needed to pay more. We asked to speak to the GM. He told us that we could take the new price or leave. I told him we were leaving and his response was "Drop dead." We have never set foot in any Acura dealership since then and never will. We ended up getting an Infiniti instead.

Red Flag practices are prevalent! Trying to purchase a car with my daughter. Went to 3 Stealerships that posted online prices I knew we could work with. Walked out on all three due to there pricing being $5k-$7k higher with all their added options that miraculously installed itself on the day of our arrival and they “cant/won’t” remove. (ie: paint protection, gps tracker, ext warranty). It’s practices like these that will eventually lead to purchase solely online. Good riddance to these thieves!

Put an offer on a 911 today. They accepted my offer. When it was time to sign the paperwork they not only put on their original asking price but they also tackled on a $1500 reconditioning fee. When I questioned his integrity he made up all sorts of excuses. I put my running shoes and sprinted out.

My husband and I were at a "Tent Sale" at a local dealer. I knew what I wanted and what extras I had to have. The salesman walks over and starts asking my husband what he wants even though we told him the car was for me. I'm in the car checking things out. I asked several questions and was brushed-off while he stood with my hubby. Well, we've been married long enough that he knows how mad I'm getting. He's smiling like crazy. Finally, the salesman asks my hubby what he thinks of the car. I stood up from the car and said, " He has no opinion on it one way or the other. As you were told, this car is for ME. I love the car but since you deemed it necessary to brush-off my inquiries and ignore me, I'm going across the street to buy one. Which I did. The other dealer showed me respect, answered my questions and didn't try to rip-me-off. I ended up buying three cars from them over the next few years. My husband laughed the first salesman as I walked out.

I actually had a pretty great experience buying a car from a dealer. I got a loan from my credit union, printed the ad price the dealer had online for a suburban my wife and I wanted. We walked in, took it for a drive, and the saleswoman asked if we were interested in purchasing. I said yes, we already had our check from our bank, and the price we were paying was the price they had on their website. The lady looked it at it (it was 10k less than the sticker) said yup I will honor that for you guys and we walked out not paying a penny more than what we wanted to. I highly advise you walk in with either cash in hand or your own personal loan from your own bank ready to go, that way you can avoid their finance Department.

I haven't had any problems with buying a car since the 1980's. I go in with a list of must haves, what car I want, what options are absolute and what is acceptable, and a number. The first time I did this, I already had financing available but sat down with the sales/finance guy. He started tacking ,"Destination fee", prep, etc. I stood up and walked out the door. He came rushing after me asking what was wrong. I told him the number. He started but I have to get XX. I said, I told you the number I would pay, you want to add that stuff on, drop the price of the car. I kept walking. Bought the same vehicle at another dealer two days later. They got it from the first one. Since then They have to call me with their "Deal" and if they call with a substitute, we're done. I wont use that dealer. The number one rule for car buying is to be willing to walk. Once you have that down, it's your deal or no deal. Just Walk.

I love it when they charge you a "Dealer Fee" that is never discussed until they outline the price. Last time I looked for a car, they wanted to charge me a dealer fee of $895, When I questioned this, they told me its an upcharge to pay for misc fees of doing business......The dealer actually told me, it cost money to keep the lights on.....LOL, I walked out.

I have a similar story to the "price range" after a specified price, interest rate, and number of payments have been declared. Years ago, my girlfriend's son was at a dealership to buy a truck he needed for work. He took pictures of the offer and texted them to his mother to look over, who in turn handed them to me since one of my mottos in life is, "Math is fun!" Now, I know very little about vehicles, and so I was no authority to determine if the offer he was given for the truck was a good deal or not, but he believed it to be. I was just looking over the paperwork to make sure everything lined up. I ran the calculations and found the monthly payment amount I calculated was considerably lower than what he was quoted. I assumed a typo somewhere and tried again, but got the same result. I reversed the math, and found the principal would have to be inflated by something like $2400 to get the math to work resulting in the monthly payment quoted. Apparently, the dealership was trying to hide some extended warranty or on-site service guarantee without giving him the option to accept or decline. I guess they assume most people can't do this kind of math, so they'll never know. It's unfortunate that they're right.

A dealership was pretty annoyed when I decided to pay for a car outright a few years ago 😂 Screw paying interest on a car loan if you don't have too.

One time I told the salesman that I was willing to pay the advertised price for a Jeep I was interested in. He said he had to talk to his manager. I asked him why because I was paying their asking price. I told him if the price was higher than advertised, I'm walking out. Well, I ended up walking out and the salesman got all mad. I told him I wasn't playing.

When they ask for your keys, to check out your trade, do NOTHING until you get your keys back. I have had to call the police to get my keys back, after getting into a physical altercation with the "salesman." Holding your keys hostage is the oldest trick in the book.

One that I encountered many years ago when I was at a used car dealer. Asks me, "What is your range?" I told him $7,000 to $9,000. He immediately leads me to a car they were asking $14,000. If he'd showed me a car they were asking $10,000, I might have been interested in, but he showed me a car so far outside my range that I told him he wasn't serious about the deal and left.

I once experienced the "deposit needed to test drive" blatant scam... I wasn't broke so I gave them $800 cash knowing I would get it back. They also told me "the deposit will hold the car for you in order to give you a few days to decide." Regarding the return of the deposit, what I didn't know was it would not be returned to me immediately but that it came in the form of a check by mail 6 weeks after the fact and I had to get VERY aggressive and literally had to threaten them, in order to get it in 6 weeks. Fucking corrupt assholes!

Another red flag I walked out of a dealer about. "We installed a security system in the vehicle already so you have to pay for it". AAAAAND the security system was NOT part of the advertised price or in the description.

A buddy of mine was shopping for a new car for his wife, it was years ago, but anyway. He looked at a Taurus station wagon his wife liked, he intended to just write a check if he got the price ha wanted, he told them he didn’t want to haggle and play games, just give him the absolute bottom dollar they would do. They have him a price, he went to another dealer and they beat the price by quite a bit so he bought it from the second dealer. First dealer calls him a few days after he had been there and asked if he was still interested in the car. He told them he got quite a bit lower from another place and was buying from them , dealer ones “ bottom dollar “ was way too high. The salesman said “ but you haven’t heard our “ bottom, bottom dollar price”, to which he said “ this is exactly what I told you I was wanting to avoid, the BS and hassle”. He bought from the second dealer and the first continued to call for several weeks after. Had they NOT played games they would’ve made a sale for certain and kept a customer with money as a regular.

I recently expressed interest in a pre owned car via e-mail and they told me they charge a non-negotiable $895 “dealer prep fee”. I replied back saying that was a scam and I’m not paying anything more then the selling price of the vehicle, and they said sorry, can’t negotiate the price. And I left it at that. They turned away a customer before I went there in person 😅

As a married woman, a massive red flag is when a dealer “needs” to make sure it is ok with my husband before making a deal with me on a car. My money, my car, my marriage is none of your damned business. This still happens, oddly, and results in lost sales, so it really makes absolutely no sense.

Someone may have said this before, but I went to a dealer and I saw a used Ranger pickup on the lot. A salesman came up. I asked him how much for the Ranger. He asked how much I could afford a month. I said, that doesn't matter. How much for the Ranger? He said I can get a payment plan to meet your budget. I said, this is the last time, how much for the Ranger? He said again how much do you want to pay a month. I turned around and started walking to my car. He kept talking and I kept walking.

In October 1977 my new wife and I went looking for a Honda Accord, as the 1978 models were arriving. We visited the closest dealer, who had "$1500 Additional Dealer Markup" on the sticker. Curious, I asked a salesman about it and got this long story about the "Northern Illinois Honda Dealers' Association" who had determined they weren't making enough money on the hard-to-get models and were tacking on this fee. The story was very involved, but we walked out and drove to Libertyville, as the small formerly-bikes-only Honda shop now had cars. No salesmen jumped out to attack us as we browsed around, which was refreshing, so we finally walked up to a fellow sitting in his office. He was polite and soft-spoken, and introduced himself as "Bob" as I asked him "What's this about a Northern Illinois Honda Dealers' Association adding onto the price of the new Accord", and he gave me a puzzled look and said "WHAT Northern Illinois Honda Dealers' Association?". I said we'll take that blue one over there, and we bought the car on the spot. Best car experience ever, and Dan Fendick was a great service manager, helping the dealership eventually BUY OUT the Pontiac dealership and expand by a factor of 10 or so. Wonderful folks!

Two red flags I came across: - Dealerships focusing on monthly payments instead of the total out of the door. These dealerships love spreading the loan to 7+ years. I once went to a dealership to purchase a car, and the salesman/manager would not budge on lowering the MSRP. Instead, they wanted to make the loan longer to ease the monthly payments. - Dealerships not matching or competing with other dealerships (same manufacturer). I was once in the market for a particular SUV and emailed a few dealerships within a 150 miles radius for the best offer out of the door. Some dealerships straight up refused to even email me back an offer, and insisted for me to come in. One local dealership had the audacity to say they would match the best offer, until I step foot in the dealership and was told, they couldn’t and insinuated that the other dealership (located 100 miles away roughly) who sent me the out of the door quote could actually be deceiving me with that “too good to be true” pricing. I told that sales manager that I could actually go ahead and start the purchase process over the phone and online with the other dealership and if he wished to be my guest. I even ask that sales manager “Are you saying that other Toyota dealership is lying to me? Because if the other dealership is not lying, you are pretty much talking down and backstabbing that other dealership”. The sales manager walked away and the poor salesman whispered: Our dealership does not lower MSRP. If I was in your shoes, I would go ahead and move on with the other dealership.” 💀 😂

"Let us have the keys, so we can appraise your trade in." When my stepbrother went to buy his first car he drove his dads' pristine '66 Impala to the dealership. They asked for the keys while he went on a test drive. He explained it was NOT his car and reminded them he and already said he did not have a trade in. "Well we might need to move the car out of the way while you are out driving our car, so we need the keys." He handed them over. When he returned the Impala was gone. "Oh we took your trade in to the service shop to inspect it before we sell it." "It's NOT a trade in, give me the keys." "Well the service manager locks the keys in the safe when he goes home, and he already left so no one can get the keys. Sorry." My stepbrother walked over to a coffee shop and called his dad, who was built like a linebacker. When the sales manager say that very large, very angry thing walk in they "suddenly remembered" there was another person who knew the combination to the safe, so they could get those keys after all!

Meh.. last time I went car shopping I decided not to spend hours haggling and just pay a bit more. Then the dealership wouldn’t tell me their asking price for the car I wanted until they ran my credit. It was a pretty surreal conversation while they tried to explain how the price of the car was dependent on my credit score. So I figured game on and we went round and round for hours until I finally got them to agree on a much lower price than I was first ok with paying before they decided to screw around. Best part was finally letting them pull a credit score then handing them my credit unions pre approval letter for more than 5% less interest than “the best they could do”.

We went to buy a car that my wife had test-driven. I had priced it with a service through my credit union, but I wanted to give the business to the local dealer where she had tested it. It took a lot of negotiations, and finally I told the salesperson the price I was getting through the service and I said to him to get close to that price. The guy told me: oh, you know, you don't really get that price, blah blah. So I told him: "You might be right, so I tell you what. It's Saturday. I am leaving now and going home. On Monday I will double check with them. If the price they quoted me is not correct, I will come back and buy from you. If it is correct, I buy from them." And, I was going to do just that. He stopped me, gave me the usual "I have to talk to the manager" and came back in two minutes with the right price.... One of the things, though, is that you have to be willing to actually leave, which I was.

A car that I had eventually bought new and kept for 22 years had an interesting purchasing experience. I had seen an advertisement for a 1997 car for $9,990 and it had everything I wanted. Went to the dealership and clearly stated what I was looking for and the salesman showed me everything but. He said he'd get some keys and for me to wait - I didn't. I followed him into the showroom and low and behold there was the $9,990 car in all of its glory! I asked the salesman why he didn't show me this one and he said it was "white". I then retorted that I never said I was considering any color and he looked caught. Then he said the car was a display car for the special. And to which I responded well, show me where another car like this is and I'll buy it or get your sales manager. I ended up with that car.

years ago I let a dealer have my keys to do a estimate on my trade. I thought I was going to have to call the cops to get my car back. This dealer was part of a local network of several dealerships in the area. They lost any future business from me that day at any lot they ran.

Many decades ago my dad went to a dealer, where the salesman insisted that the manager requires a good faith deposit before they could talk price. At that point my dad cussed out the salesman and dealership for using such a bull s**t tactic and assuming that he was stupid enough to fall for it. The best part was my dad has a very loud voice and everyone could her him and they knew exactly why he walked out on them.

Just purchased a truck from Town And Country Ford in Nashville, TN. I’m 52 years old and this was the easiest truck purchase I ever made. Did the whole deal on the phone, from Florida. Sent me pics, told them what I would pay (nobody closer to me would even get close), drive to Nashville, drive the truck looked it all over, signed the papers and headed back to Florida. 👍🏻

I experienced nearly all the red flags at Shift (similar to Carvana) when trying to buy a used car. First, I scheduled an appointment online for a test drive. Then they called me the next day and asked me to fill out a credit application prior to the test drive, and offered $200 off the price as an “incentive.” I refused. I did the test drive, and they wanted to do an evaluation on my trade-in, which I allowed them to do while I was driving the other vehicle. Then, they had me sign the papers transferring my car to them before they even showed me my approvals for a loan. After they showed me, the sales guy initially said an $800 down payment would be required for a loan with stipulations (need proof of residence, etc). Another approval asked for a $5,000 down payment, with no stipulations. Then he came back and said the $800 was a typo, and they wanted an $8,000 down payment. This was for a 2013 Ford Fusion SE with 32k miles, that was advertised at $15,450. They offered an additional $300 if we closed the deal that day. They also appraised my car at $10,100 after cosmetic repairs were done. A Ford dealership near me had offered just above $6,000 for the same car, and Kelly Blue Book had the value at around $7,400. Shift is a total scam with predatory loan practices. I tried to file a complaint on the better business bureau website but they are not listed there. I told them to shred my paperwork, then I grabbed my registration and keys, and left. Nobody should shop at Shift for a vehicle. Ever.

I was a car salesman and I was very honest I wanted to help the customer more that I wanted to help the dealership and my manager used to get mad at me. He also had anger management issues. Finally I couldn't continue being a Salesman cuz that's all they wanted me to do is lie. So I quit right in front of a bunch of customers it was a super busy night for selling cars. And believe me I was very dramatic and I'm sure the dealership resented pushing me to the situation where I quit in front of a bunch of customers. And I made sure they knew I was not going to continue being a lying salesman

Those "reconditioning fees" can get very expensive and it kills me that after all the years, more people haven't learned how to handle car salespeople. About twenty years ago I walked off a lot because of all the bullshit telling the salesman and his boss "You both have forgotten the first lesson you probably learned at car selling school - never EVER let your mark drive out in the same car he drove in." In front of several deals in the making I told them that I could close one of these deals without even knowing what their policies and procedures are, that I could do it cold by just acting like a human and not lying to everyone. And I do NOT pay DOC fees - I don't spend a single dollar just to sign the forms. I can't stand salespeople in any business especially cars. I eat those pathologically dishonest morons for breakfast. I get THEM exasperated and it's very easy to do.

I always tell the dealer that I used to work at a dealership, left because I hated the sleezy sales tactics but it was useful knowing their tricks. Always puts them on their back feet. Gotten great deals ever since.

I would actually say that a dealership that offers a “haggle free price” is a yellow flag in a lot of ways. CarMax does this, and they almost always overcharge for their cars compared to blue book or NADA. In reality, every single dealership has a “haggle free price” when you think about it…it’s called the listed price. I’d prefer to be able to haggle and get a better price instead of pay a marked up price under the guise of a stress free transaction. I always negotiate the actual sales price of the car instead of negotiating monthly payments. If the deal isn’t working, I just leave the dealership and then text the sales person later, maybe the next day, and offer a really low offer, which gets the negotiating going again until we meet in the middle. The middle being the original price I wanted to pay from the beginning. Another red flag for me is a dealership where the sales person rides along for the test drive and takes me on a predetermined route. I’d rather just get the car for an hour or so to myself to check it out where I want.

I bought my 2019 Ranger three years ago. I went to my local Ford dealership, who I bought 5 vehicles from prior and always had a pleasant experience. The dealership was sold to a large dealer group, I had X-plan pricing due to my membership in the Mustang Club of America. The dealership is supposed to show you the invoice with the X-plan pricing. The sales manager showed me a copy of of the Mulroney sticker with a hand scribbled "your price" on it. I had contacted another dealership, who emailed me a copy of the invoice for the same truck, the same equipment package. The X-plan price was $200 less than what the local dealership quoted me. I haven't set foot in that dealership since.

When I bough my Subaru 5 years ago, they said this is the price of the car, cash or credit, trade-in or no trade-in. They said shop around if you want and then come back. It was very refreshing after owning Hondas my whole life where you would go in and getting a price out of the salesman was worse than root canal.

I was at a dealership one time, somehow a customer’s car wound up on a car carrier and the truck drove off with the car. They couldn’t get hold of the driver and sent off chase cars to catch the truck. I don’t know the final outcome but it was exciting at the time.

I’ve had a dealership tell me they came out with this new rule that people aren’t allowed to negotiate on prices and whatever the price is is set. This creates a more fair playing field for everyone so everyone pays the same fair market value of the car. Funny thing is the fair market value on the car I looked at was $7,500 and they were asking $13,000 for it.

There are dealers that WILL sell a car at MSRP, but they will force you to take a dealer add-on. That happened to me and their justification was oh we mention the required dealer add-on on the website. That required bogus add ons easily add at least an extra $1000 on top of the price of the vehicle and the dealer will not take it off. I ended up walking out of that dealership.

I actually heard a salesman tell a mother and son that to get the interest rate they needed to buy the warranty crap. I learned to look out for this during my research and just could not believe what I was hearing as I was in the process of buying a vehicle. They tried all kinds of crap with me...scotch guard (truck had leather seats)...rust treatment (truck already had that under the wheel well)...maintenance plan (work on my vehicles). I just kept repeating...just give me the keys to my truck. It was like they were holding my truck hostage (already purchased and waiting to get it) while they tried to get me to buy all this crap. Again, I stuck to my line...just give me the keys to my truck.

Great information. People need to be educated with all of this. I personally know a salesperson that said they sold a Tahoe at $15,000 over sticker. Sad to me. The poor buyer was ripped off. Glad I don’t need to buy a vehicle right now.

Years ago my oldest son fell in love with a truck at a dealership that I had told him to stay away from. He talked to the dealer and said he was going back the following day, which then I demanded to go. Sure enough, they played the numbers game that looked too good to be true. After doing the math we found they weren't giving us anything for the trade in, it just appeared they were until you really looked at the numbers and then they admitted they weren't giving us anything for our current truck.. We got up and walked out. My son learned a big lesson about how dealers can play with the numbers making it look like you're getting a great deal when they are really padding the price to begin with.

It's amazing how many bad actor stories come out of car dealerships. As for the credit check, dealers used to do this without consent, when they asked for your ID for test drive

I totally agree with this. Sold cars for many years, and one of my biggest pros was being transparent with all my customers. Of course, I can’t deny I worked for my pocket, at the same time it was a deal that made me and the customer happy

I have had all the red flags mentioned in this video. One of the biggest turn offs to me is when you to a dealership I and you park at the Custmer parking spot. You can’t even get out of the car. There right there at your door. Or they have 3 guys running up to you. I did cold calls for 5 years I hate that.

Dealers hate it when you reject their extended warrantee

We recently had one of the same experiences you mentioned and a dealership in Antioch Illinois. With 50% down in the car $10,350 car and my daughter had 750 credit score they claimed the interest is 9% because that’s the best the bank could do. Then they tried to jam a $3000 maintenance and extended warranty program down our throats. We kept saying no so they said they would lower the interest rate if we bought the package. I told him, “I thought the bank said that was the rate was fixed? Yet you can knock three points off the interest-rate without consulting the bank?” He didn’t know what to say. These guys were as crooked as can be. Another sales person also lied and claimed that it was a law that they tell us that our car needed rust proofing in Wisconsin and Illinois. Could get it at Ziebart or someplace, but they would be cheaper it just $600, all the while showing us photographs of rusted out car undercarriages. The deliciousness of this all was that my daughter paid off the loan a few days later in it’s entirety, that’s robbing them of their commission on the interest-rate spread they would’ve split between the bank and the dealership. They try to play a lot of other games, and frankly thanks to YAA we saved about $4000.

They quoted my trade in at $500. The finance manager then asked what they quoted it at. He then offered $1000 for a private deal so he could "give it to his son as a starter car." He then sold it on facebook for $3500.

Three quick stories. I went truck shopping and had 2 trucks in mind, a Ford and a Ram. After a few weeks of looking I stopped at a dealer while it was raining and went to look. They showed my around and came to one they said was a loaner, it had 5200 miles on it. When I asked about the warranty and price, they said it comes with the full warranty and gave me a drive off the lot price $3500 less than a new one. I haggled a bit and got a 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty included for the same price and the destination fee dropped. Long story short, I got it for $1200 cheaper than what they wanted since I argued it was not a new truck but an used one and showed them a few scratches. I felt they did me right. I saw the sales person from another dealership and he asked why I didn't buy from him, I smiled and said, you didn't want to deal, I found someone who wanted to sale a truck. 2nd story. I shopped online and found what the prices the car my wife wanted was selling for. We went to the dealer and I just said, I will pay $16,000 drive off the lot cost. He said he had to run it past his finance office. I told hem we were going to lunch and when I returned I wanted a yes or no answer. We got back and he asked if $16 dollars was going to make a difference. I said no and when the paperwork was all done the price was $600 more than we agreed on, we walked out. The following day, their competitor, whom we made the same comment to, called and said they would do it. We walked in, they had the paperwork laid out, the drive off cost was exactly $16,000. We wrote them and check and drove her new car off the lot after servicing it. Third story. I financed one car for my daughter because I got a good deal and 2% interest. I was making 4.5% interest on my money so why lose that interest. At the end of the year when I could make a withdraw without losing interest, I paid off the car. Never be in a hurry to buy and do your research online to find the cost others have paid and somebody wants to sell you a vehicle for what you want to pay.

Great video. I had a Toyota dealership change the phone/email price on me when I got to dealership. I still test drove the truck because I wanted to see how it handled. The sale was pretty much a lock because I wanted the truck and they had what I wanted, but the salesman had some lame excuse about giving the wrong price over the pone...wrong answer. I was out of there. I was disappointed because it was hard to find the Sequoia in Black with Red Rock interior and most importantly captain seats in the 2nd row (no bucket seats for me, ever) The best thing happened. The dealership near home had a brand new Sequoia come in just off the truck with only 4 miles on it (still had all the plastic wrap on the interior and exterior of the truck). It's not easy getting captain seats in this region. I purchased the truck for a bit less than what the other dealer wanted for the truck (that truck had 200 miles on it and not all options) with all the options included. I told them I could get this truck at that dealership at such and such price and they beat the price. I Love My Toyota. It's a beautiful well built truck. I research before I purchased my 1st new car in 1995 ( a 95 Cobra) and learned the dealers tricks, such as the trade in trick, the triangle trick and the what can you afford to pay monthly trick. I was 2 steps ahead of them and was able to not get beat.

When I was looking for my first new car buy I knew what make and model I wanted. The Toyota minivan is what I wanted the first dealer told me it would cost me to have 5 doors and it would cost to have the rubber tread on the back bumper plus rust protection. I had to check myself in the mirror to see if I looked stupid to him. I stoped the conversation thanked him for his time and told him I'll let him know. Within the week and checking out a few more places I brought my new car all cash no payments. Whenever I think about getting a new car I remember how his greed lost him a good sale.

I took a test drive once and liked the car. I wanted to take it home and show my husband to get his opinion.The dealer actually told me to call my insurance company and delete my current vehicle and add theirs. I laughed at him, got up and left. I later found an inquiry on my credit when I hadn't authorized any such inquiry. #shifty

What I hate the most is the little sign somewhere in the dealership that says we will add 499.00 to 699.00 to your negotiated price. I won't pay it. You might have to walk away but that to me is a game playing dealership. A negotiated price is simply that, if they try to change it when you're hot for the purchase then walk, they are dishonest.

The last four cars I bought (2006, 2010, 2018, 2020) were fully researched prior to going to the dealer. I checked several online sources (Hemmings, AAA, Blue Book, etc) for what the selling price should be. Then I checked the same sources for what my trade-in should be valued at (the selling price, not the trade-in price) and came up with a number that I would not deviate from. Then I checked the dealership's online inventory to select a car that I would want. Finally, I went to the dealer and told them which car in their inventory I was interested in.. I told them I was going to handle the payments (actually I was paying cash) and to give me an out-the-door price. I had to do a bit of haggling ($1000 off in one case) but got the price I wanted, wrote a check, and drove away in my new car. It helped a bit that it was the same dealership, and I dealt with the same salesman each time. Hint: Go on the last few days of the month when the salespeople are trying harder to make their goals. They will cut a bit of the price to make their bonus for the month. Do not let them run the conversation. Tell them what you want, don't accept anything different, and stand firm. Be prepared to get up and walk out - there are plenty of other dealerships around. If they don't have the exact car you want, they can get one from another dealer for you. They do dealer trades all the time. Check other dealers' inventories to see what they have. If the salesman has to go check with the Sales Manager, ask that he be brought to you for the discussion. If he's the one pricing the deal then he's the one you should be dealing directly with. If you're trading in a car, spend the $100-$150 or so to have it detailed. Touch up any paint nicks. A clean car is worth a lot more than one that appears not to have been taken care of.

Currently with the shortage or cars, dealers have become increasingly rude and condescending because they know they can just sell the car for at or way above msrp the next day. No thanks

I actually experienced the following: At a new car dealer in Flagstaff, Arizona I was looking at the window sticker of a vehicle and of course it listed the cost of shipping. But on the little dealer installed sticker, off to the side, it also listed a 2nd shipping cost. (I think they were the same price) I asked the salesman, “what is this, you’re charging for shipping twice?” He answered, “ what you need to know is the shipping fee on the manufacturer sticker pays for shipping from Japan to port of entry. The 2nd shipping fee is for port of entry to the dealer.” Of course I left and never returned again to that dealer.

I ordered the Antarctic blue Super Sports Wagon, with the CB and the Rally Package. Instead they gave a Metallic Pea Wagon Queen Family Truckster. When I tried to get my Buick trade in back, they had already crushed it. Red flags all around...

As a woman who has always bought her own cars, I've had plenty of "handling" from dealers thinking I am stupid enough to fall for it. Last one was I paid cash for a new Mazda CX5 that had minor hail damage on the lot. It was so minor I couldn't tell even after the sales dude spent time showing me exactly where. Anyways, when they wrote up the deal, they included a $1295 "Destination Fee". I was told that was the cost of getting the car to the lot. I told them that particular item is their cost of doing business--I didn't custom order this car, or ask them to get stock from some other dealership on my behalf. So take the fee off or discount the deal in some other way, because I ain't paying it. They wouldn't remove that line item per se, but they did give me $1295 MORE on my trade to bring down the overall price on the deal. Imagine how many people never question this fee just because it's built in to the invoice, as if that cannot be challenged.

It all depends on the dealership. Back in 2010 I was looking to buy a used mini-van has my wife's van had bit the dust. I went to the local Ford dealer - since that was where my wife's van that bit the dust was(I was told it needed a new engine). I had a budget in mind. They showed me a van and I liked it but was several thousand more than I wanted to pay. They talked about financing - which I was not going to do through them and gave me the numbers. I told the sales guy that I had to do more research as that was my first stop and only because my car was there - he asked if I had a trade-in so apparently he was not listening. I told him I would get back to him. I searched the internet and found a dealer about an hour away that had the van I wanted for the price and almost no difference in options - the mileage difference between the 2 was 2000 miles. I called and spoke to a sales manager over the phone. He explained how it was certified pre-owned, came with roadside assistance and had special financing - which was much lower than the first place. He said if I gave him a $500 deposit he would hold it for a few days and if I changed my mind there would be no problem refunding the deposit. I compared the 2 instances and how I felt by the way I was talked to and treated by both places. Very quickly I decided on the 2nd place. I called the first place and my salesperson was not there so I left a message that I wasn't interested in his van. The night before I am going to pick up the van the salesperson from the first place calls me - first he is upset that I never called him, I tell him I did and that I left a message with another salesperson and gave him their name. I then told him I had decided to buy a can from another dealership. I told him all about the van, the certified pre-owned, the roadside assistance and the special financing that I was getting. He told me that has van had all that as well. When I asked why he hadn't told me that originally his response was - "Well, I had to hold something back". I was floored. He then asked me if he could match the price I was getting would I buy the van from him - I told him I would consider it, there was no way I was buying from someone who wasn't honest upfront. He called me back about 10 minutes later and said he could not match the price. The transaction at the dealership where I bought the van went smoothly except for 1 thing - they were supposed to get the title for me. The problem was that the van had federal title , I had never seen that before, the title was by "The US Department of State" - apparently the van was used by the Russian Embassy in NYC. I had to go to Trenton to have the title switched. The van was immaculate and was great for many years. We always joked that it must be bugged!

I had a dealer tell me that the bank required that I have an extended warranty to get their best rate. I bought the car and when I got it home I looked up the law and found out it was illegal. I called them up to ask that it get taken off the loan. They asked why and I told them it was illegal. They said come right down and we will take care of you. The money was sent back to the bank the next day.

One RED flag I experienced was Feeling like I'm getting force to buy the vehicle. I don't like to make my decisions right away without taking a moment to decide the right decision. He called the manager, and they weren't trying to let me go without the car. Remember EVERYONE to always go to a dealership that you feel at home.

I contacted a dealer who was advertising two midsize pickups in low $20K, one year difference in age but the older one had less miles. I called to confirm the ad and availability, told him my trade-in and asked for a quote on either truck. I was moving out of state and didn't have time to spare. He emailed me, said they wouldn't offer a deal. Why not? You can't afford it. I said too bad, I just rolled over a short term investment and have $25K cash in my check account and hung up.

I have had a dealer, and this was very recently (like 2 weeks ago) try to sell me a Coloroado ZR2 (way more than I needed lol). He started out by saying stuff like "oh you checked online, the price online includes taxes, pdi and shipping. The only other thing are the admin fees" so I'm thinking, "yeah, admin fees are usually between the 250 to 500 area so it should be fine" until I got to the final price which was 7000$ over MSRP...I was confused, so I asked "why are you so much higher than online" in which he replied "well they didn't show our fees in there." And then he said "this also includes MVI" MVI in my province in canada is 40$. Not 7000$ and as I mentioned before, admin fees usually are around 250 to 500$. Still far from 7000$. I turned around and left. Never buying a new vehicle there. I will stick with my trusted Subaru dealer that has been nothing but good to me!

So TRUE Pops!!! Our finance guy offered us lower interest if we bought the warranty at his price…. We declined it all! Looking forward til your finance company is approved for California!

I remember back in the old days when the banks were closed by noon on Saturday . I found a car I wanted to buy it was used it was a classic oldsmobile 442 it was in bad shape so I made an offer based on the long list of things wrong with the car. The salesman shook my hand on the number I told him the bank is closed I will get the money from the bank and come get the car after work Monday he said ok see you Monday. When I showed up money in hand they had the car sitting beside the office with tags on it ready to go. I went in met the salesman who greeted me and then quoted the original price I said wait a minute that isn't the price we shook hands on on Saturday. He said the sales manager wouldn't let him sell it for that price.(I think they saw a starry eyed kid that really wanted that car and that they could take advantage of). I went straight to the sales manager and said what is the story here we came to a deal Saturday the guy said the car is worth more than that I responded quickly. If it was safe to drive may be but I went down the list with him and he was still standing on his price . At this point I was not going to be taken and I said if you will not honor the deal I shook hands on on Saturday and I have the cash in hand you can keep you car and I will no be back here ever again furthermore I will tell everyone I know how I was treated and to not shop here at that point I left and left the tires of my oldsmobile in their lot. I never did return

The new one I have seen here in Florida is the requirement to have insurance before you leave the dealer. After speaking with my insurance company they said that was not true. Now where the scam that I walked out on came in was they wanted me to ensure the vehicle prior to me signing the papers. I told them I wasn't ensuring the vehicle until I signed papers long story short I finally put insurance on it and lo and behold the papers they handed me did not match their price when the negotiated terms. I grabbed my keys to my trade-in and I told them I was done. Of course the sales manager and three or four other guys came to me as I was trying to leave the dealer to renegotiate the deal and I still left. It took 30 seconds to add the vehicle it took 30 seconds to get the vehicle off my insurance. I don't know why they thought that was going to work in their favor maybe it works for others not for myself. The one laughable thing that happened was they already had the tag off my trade in on the new vehicle and I had to sit there and watch the car salesman take it back off the new vehicle and put it back on my original trade. I went and purchased another vehicle at a different dealer they said the same thing I told them what happened to the original dealer and amazingly enough I got to sign papers on the vehicle prior to putting insurance on it imagine that. Now as far as the no haggle price I don't have an issue with that as long as the vehicles in the condition I'm looking for at the price that I'm willing to pay with that said the most recent vehicle purchase was at a CarMax unfortunately they quoted me 7.87% interest which I was not going to do. However I was able to go to the credit union down the street and get the loan for the vehicle at 2.25% maybe that's how CarMax makes their money I'm not really sure all I know is we may not have going to price but I'm not leaving a dealership with interest rates like that. I have seriously considered being a consultant for car buyers to keep things like this from happening to them for a small fee I feel that so many people are naive or just don't know how capable they are of negotiating. I have almost begged my sister my mother and a few friends to let me go with them because I know when they go there they are going to take the salesman's word with it leave there with $3,000 in additional packages happily paying their monthly payment that they wanted for as long as their credit would allow. I think that's the big hang up everybody gets trapped into if they don't want their payment to be over let's say $500 a month and the salesman gets them at 508 but it's for 96 months they have no idea what they actually paid for the vehicle all they know is their payment is within $8 of what they wanted.

Absolutely love the relationship you two have. Result of great parenting.

Thanks for the video, I learned a lot about buying a new vehicle. I experienced the last red flag about extended warranty hostage when I went to a Harley dealership to buy another bike. Even though it was used they continued to push the extended warranty as being part of the package in order to buy the bike at a certain interest rate. They also quoted me a price but after adding up the down payment and the payments over time I was going to end up paying almost 12 thousand more than they were asking at first. They also continually called for almost 2 weeks afterwards trying to get me to come back and buy it. Glad I walked away....

Oh man, this reminds me of a car I was trying to buy on the far west side of El Paso, TX off I-10 back in the early 1980s. The price was bait and switch type tactics. I was quoted about a 8% interest rate, they upped the interest rate to 21% despite having excellent credit. Then when I said no deal, they would not give me my keys to my car that I was considering training in. After haggling with them an hour or so to get my keys back, I gave them a warning that I would go out into the show room and jump up on a Corvette and start walking all over it. A few minutes later, they would not give me my keys and I began my dance on a Corvette. The keys came out of nowhere and my wife and I left the dealership. It was not soon after this event, the dealership was closed because fraudulent business practices. They'd buy cars elsewhere from other dealers, disconnect the speedometer and then drive the car hundreds to a couple of thousand miles to deliver the car to their location.

I learned years ago to not give the key to a dealership early in the visit. I had to pull out my phone and threaten to call the police if they didn't give me the key back so I could leave without buying then and there. I wasn't surprised to see them bought up soon after. PS, I don't know why so many dealers have a 'one hit' business model.

I take a different approach when I buy a car. I never buy new, the depreciation is a killer, I always buy used. I don't treat the transaction as an adversarial procedure. I know what I'm willing or able to spend, I *never* finance a car, and if the price and condition of the car matches what its value is to *me*, I am perfectly happy to pay the asking price. If not, then there are plenty of other cars for sale. Life is too short to waste it spending hours haggling over a couple hundred dollars that I will never miss a year from now. It usually takes me about half an hour to buy a car with a deal that satisfies both myself and the seller.

Trust me I don't deal with car dealers for most of the reasons you have discussed. However one item, completing an app and getting pre credit approval saves everyone lots of time and money, exactly how a realtor would proceed. Both parties need to see what the customer can realistically afford before looking and test driving.

I've been working at auto dealerships for the past 20 years. One year I was in sales at a BMW dealer. The new M5 had just come out and they were on an order only basis. The sticker price on it was 89k but they were taking orders for 109k because they could. Not only that, they made us walk the customer over to the "let me sell you wheel and tire protection and gap insurance" department. Dealerships are crooked.

I think the worst dealership I had with a dealer was at Ford - First the original appointment with advisor A (who I was speaking with for a few days) was suddenly change to advisor B (a super pushover salesman). Appointment was late by 40 minutes, I rode test the car and it was good and as expected from the listing. However, as I made bad purchases in the past I decided to run all the numbers get a good price for my trade in and sit on the deal for a day before making a decision (to eliminate impulse or bad purchases). Salesman had to redo de calculations 3-4x times trying everything so I would close the deal and not leave the dealership despite the several times I told I did not wanted to close the deal right there and then. Manager comes in and out, increased the trade in value by a couple of thousands (trailing towards what I wanted) when we finally got to a good deal and I cave in for closing the deal I ran the numbers again and right before I signed I notice the amount was like 140$/ month higher which meant a shit ton more in interest and value of the car. Turns out that while he increased the trade in, the manager also increased the cost of the listed vehicle. When I pointed the error he said that he "miscalculated". I left the dealership with a security deposit in place but wen to other dealerships. Surprisingly enough another ford dealership In toronto had a similar malpractice: as usual I took screenshots of the car listing with all the pics and description, negotiation went ok, but at the very end (literally the last 10 minutes) when I went to sign the docs the sales price was up $500.00, I asked about it and said it was 500 cheaper in the ad, they doubled down on their claim until I showed the screenshots - to which they said they would honor that "glitch" from the listing website. Comes to think of it I should've reported to the regulatory agents for dealerships. so my take is, taken every single car salesperson with a grain of salt, everything they say, do and bring back as an offer, always ask to wait a day before making a call, they will always exploit things you say to grab more money.

I tell my friends and family to not discuss trade value until they have settled on the purchase price. When they are asked about a trade, just say you have no trade, then tell them you want to trade after you decide you like the purchase price. I also tell my friends and family to NOT talk about payment range or what they can "afford". They don't need to know how you intend to pay for a vehicle until AFTER you decide to buy it.

I walked away from 2 cars ( 2 dealer ships) once they told me that i had to pay more than advertised if i didn't finance with them. Once i was on the way out the manager wanted to negotiate. Happy with my car from Facebook marketplace for 3k less.

When I was younger I had a dealer run my credit to get a test drive. Did not buy the car. I didn't like it. Still not happy with that dealer 19 years later.

Back in 1987 I had a deal (I thought based on the salesman’s word) on an Olds minivan for 19,500 without the Tru-coat sealant, but when my wife and I went to pick it up, the price was higher and the sealant was “installed at the factory.” I let loose with some serious cuss words (my wife was mortified) and called him out on his lies, but ultimately gave in. My wife handed me the checkbook. I didn’t want to be there any longer than I had to be. These guys. It’s always the same.

As for the reconditioning fee. I am based in South Africa and was interested in purchasing a Lexus GS from Lexus Midrand and they wanted to charge me 50 USD for washing the car. They also wanted to charge me for roadworthy and fuel top up. I was not allowed to opt out of the fuel top up fee. I walked away from them and never looked back.

every time I was interested in a car at a dealer the manager always visited the office I was in to inform me that somebody else was very interested in the vehicle. I told him I must be the unluckiest man in history because every time I look at a vehicle somebody else was after it. After turning red he tried to convince me they didn't do that.

I recently quit in anger my job at a local new car dealership after exactly three years. It was my first time working in the service shop of the place but over time i came to see how slimy the whole business really is (both sales and service) and it really really bothered me inside and made me miserable. I couldn't do it anymore. I despise the greed and the lying that goes on on a daily basis. It's actually sick.

I've only bought three cars from dealerships in my life. They were all relatively straightforward transactions but each one of them left me with a really sleazy feeling. I think that's just the way it is: I don't really believe there are any really wonderful car dealerships, new or used and I think they'd all sell their own grandmothers for the "right" price. People who care about doing good and being decent just don't go into that line of work. They become teachers or scientists or just get whatever job they can. People who work at car dealerships care about one thing above everything else, and that is money.

I haven't heard this in awhile so I don't know if they still do this here in Detroit but they would advertise a car at a really good price either on the radio or a newspaper ad which would say, "Two available at this price." Of course as soon as you walk in the door they apologize about having just selling the last one but lucky for you they have something similar they can show you.

Some years ago we were trading for a new car at a Toyota dealership here in the UK, the dealer made us a ridiculous offer which I steadfastly refused, he supposedly went to see his manager and came back with a £500 improved offer, at which point I stood up and said to my wife and children come on were going, looking at me in astonishment the salesman asked what was the matter, I explained that I wasn’t about to do business with someone that had just tried to rip me off to the tune of £500.

I always get my way when I buy a car or truck. One salesman said I was a car salesman's worst nightmare. I said thanks for the compliment, he said it's not a compliment. Yes, I always get my way..

I read the Ford is setting us a separate company for the new electric vehicles. I would guess this is so they can sell direct to the consumer cutting out the dealers. By setting up a separate subsidiary corporation Ford meets the requirement of state laws that prevent legacy auto companies from selling direct. Ford must be getting tired of the games some dealers play.

All great advice, also the bait and switch never gets old with car dealers , so when can we get rid of car dealerships , im tired of as soon as I drive off the lot the car depreciates thousands, consumers are tired of getting ripped off

Second story. My girlfriend at the time went and bought her first new car without me. They made her buy their best warranty because they said it was required for first time buyers. I showed up and met with the manager. He called in the young salesman and explained to him what I said. He denied it and wouldn't look at me. He looked down at the table the whole time. The manager said "I believe my salesman". I couldn't believe it. They finally gave us the money back for the warranty because they knew I was going to file a complaint.

I haven't bought a new car in 12 years even though I love new cars. That is due to 40 years of prior experience with scum-of-the-Earth stealership tactics. I can't drive by one without being disgusted. Never again, not one penny.