Extremely clear video. The key take-home message for me: - Progressive overload is not the direct cause of muscle growth and strength development; rather, it is a measure of your gains. - The actual workouts and the body's recovery and adaptation response to those workouts are what cause muscle growth and strength development. - The most effective way to implement progressive overload is by adding load or repetitions, which maintains the same relative training stimulus. Other methods are not practical/beneficial for hypertrophy - If you cannot do progressive overload in your program, change things up. Otherwise, don't fix what aint broken.
I’ve always disagreed with the shortening of rest intervals as a form of progressive overload. Now finally someone verbalizes it in a digestible manner. Good stuff.
Just watched you with Dr. Mike from RP Strength. I've subscribed to your channel and will start watching all your videos. Hello and thank you from New Zealand!
Switching my understanding of progressive overload to it being the EFFECT, and not the CAUSE, of gains has helped me tremendously. I used to over-interpret my performance in single workouts in isolation. Now I interpret each workout as "putting more money in the stock market"... progress might not be smooth and linear (because physiology, like the stock market, is "messy" and not "neat" like physics, math, etc.), but you'll get positive returns (achieve progressive overload, as the EFFECT of getting stronger) if you consistently "invest" enough effort.
I watch plenty of Menno's videos but this one left me confused. This is how I now understand the two most confusing bits. The point that progressive overload is a measure rather than a cause of strength and hypertrophy gains is true if your reference point is in the past rather than the future. If the pushup example were turned into a bench press and the trainee, having worked to a point where they could complete 10 reps at 135, added 5 pounds and worked up to 10 reps with 140 we would take that as a measure of strength gain. If, at that point, they stopped increasing load and just added reps, strength gains would plateau and endurance would become the trained quality. That's the point of the pushup example. But, in the case where they add 5 pounds to the bar for subsequent workouts, it's difficult for me not to see increasing the weight as a cause of the strength gain which is eventually measured when they complete 10 reps with 145 and then 150, etc., etc. The point that increasing the number of sets is not a useful progression to improve strength and hypertrophy is true if the trainee is already at or beyond maximum recoverable volume. The bench press example above would work with one set three days a week but likely work faster with two or three sets. Is there something I'm missing altogether?
I have first studied academically the principle of overload in the 80s during my pe degree. Even then the concept of overload was broader than just adding weight to the bar. It's about causing (in many ways) enough stress to stimulate an adaptation and it applies to all sorts of training, not just for strength and hypertrophy. I guess some people don't study deeply enough. It's all shorts these days
When my children were babies, they were light to carry, when they got older, it got harder to carry them, shouldn't I at the time, have gotten stronger?
Always interesting to read and watch your contents, Menno, but I find this one confusing. Let me get this straight. There were 2 points made, about 2 misconceptions, and I equally have 2 points/doubts about this. 1.If progressive overload is the not the cause, but rather the measure/effect of the gains, then... what can be said to be the cause of the gains? If one just wants to grow, to make gains, but doesn't care too much to "measure" them precisely, then why to progressively overload at all? Why would it truly matter to add either reps, weight or sets if progressive overload itself doesn't really induce those gains? 2. Adding reps and weight being preferable/more efficient way for... progressive overload (I assume) compared to adding sets is fine with me, seems quite easier than adding sets, but isn't it in contradiction with the idea that "volume is king" when it comes to hypertrophy? You had posted on IG back in September 2023 that this concept is apparently backed up by some pretty solid evidence.
@@juliashoon While this is strictly speaking true, in most studies when they refer to increasing volume, it's about adding more sets to an exercise, keeping load and reps the same.
It's important to distinguish between progressive overload for strength gains versus progressive overload for muscle growth. They are related but distinct phenomena. I think Menno mixes these up a bit in this video. For instance, it could very well be that increased capillarization resulting from overloading endurance parameters can enhance muscle hypertrophy, but not necessarily strength.
Wish there was more help for older master lifters who are burning the training candle at multiple ends - age related sarcopenia, over training/under training, recovery, diet and how to gauge whether you’re losing minimal muscle mass rather than making gains. Juggling diet, body fat, high blood sugars, hypertension, kidney efficiency and cholesterol numbers is a tight rope walk.
In my programming for strength I like to prescribe recommended rest periods, sets, reps and RPE targets instead of load. I believe it is just another variable that can influence perceived mental excertion and giving a bit more rest with higher intensities can bring it closer in total workload to the previous session than doing the same rest intervals as the prior week(s) with the intensity increase. But that’s just a minor tweak. For hypertrophy I believe it is a great reminder to standardize everything as much as possible so the proximity to failure is either predicable OR indicative of (some) progress!
Sometimes I wonder how much bigger I'd be today, if ressources like your channel had existed when I started lifting twenty years ago. Then I remember how much (according to the research) social media screws up today's teenagers, and I'm kinda glad I'm a 90s kid. Swings and roundabouts, I guess.
Amazing video! What do your think about EDT (Escalating Density Training)? Would love to know your scientific approach to those types of trainings. Thank you 🙂
@mennohenselmans ...what is a realistic progressive overload for a period of 8 months.. I am 55 and bench press 8 months ago at 16 Kgs Dumbells...Today, 8 mobths later, what should be the weight of dumbells to reflect a correct progressive overload ? Thanks.
I love your videos. I’m an outlier, but you overgeneralized that nobody measures their real eccentric phase to be 4 seconds; I think you mentioned a metronome. I frequently set a stopwatch on my phone to where I can start it then start my set quickly (or just look over and start my set when I’m positioned and the stopwatch says 10 seconds then subtract that 10) then glance at it the second I finish my set, if I try to do 2 seconds up and 4 seconds down, if the stopwatch is around 60 seconds at the end of my set, I know I did close to the 2 concentric and 4 eccentric. 20 reps with 1 second up and and 1 second down for that bounce response is 40 seconds. You have to have experience but I get pretty close with the tempo I think I’m using in my set to what the stopwatch tells me I really did. Yup, I got around 1 second up, 1 second pause and 2 seconds down with my 10 rep, 40 second set. Stay in school kids, if you can’t recite your multiplication tables you won’t be able to do this on the fly without pulling out a calculator unless you only do sets of 10 😂
Adding sets will stimulate further adaptation assuming it isn't stressing the individual beyond their capacity to recover. Just think about why we do multiple exercises and sets in the first place. And what is an additional set? It's just more reps. Can you go to far with adding sets? Of course, but this applies to almost no one in real life. Virtually no recreational lifter is overtraining.
I personally have tries a variety of protocols and best for me has always been 3set 10-15 reps, once i get all the sets to 12-15 reps i will add more weight only fraction increase depending on lift works a treat. However adding more sets also left me not maximising and exhausted recovery was a bitch.
I have not trained for years and now I got back into it. I watched some of yours, as well as Mikes and Andy Gallin's videos about the science of working out and hypertrophy. Can I stick with a 4 day total body workout for the first year or so? And what set and rep ranges should I do. I did all body weight exercises for a month now conditioning my body with higher reps like 20-25. Now I think its time to go weighted calisthenics and some lifting.
Im beginner in weight training. I usualy do 3 sets of 15 reps, not with much weight but trying to get my techniques rights, and do very slow reps and stretches as RP explains in their video. Therefore, should I keep adding a bit of weight every week now and stay on 15 reps? Or eventually as weight gets harder should I rather reduce my reps e.g. from 15 to 12 and add weight?
What Menno says is, if those 3x15 start seemingly being easy for you, add weight or add reps. Where you could master doing 3x15 on seated overhead press, add 1.25 kg and try to do it again. Then 1.25 more. The other way is to slowly add reps, make it for example 3x20. Then you can experiment adding 2.5kg to the bar instead, if the hassle of microplates isn't worth it for you. In essence you need to keep maintaining that sweet spot where you feel like the rep is grinding, but not too heavy, to keep making progress.
I've listened to this twice now and still can't seem to reconcile what you said here vs your "2 fundamentals" video where "total volume" was the most consistent predictor of muscle growth (if I understood correctly). Isn't that at odds with you repeatedly saying not to add more sets in this video?
They are largely independent considerations, progressive overload and your training volume. Volume should be based primarily on your recovery capacity and goals. Progressive overload should always be chased, regardless of training volume.
@@menno.henselmans, you probably get thousands of questions daily. Hope you don’t mind me adding one. So if I understand you correctly; the volume (I.e number of sets) all depends on how well recovered, while the progressive overload (I.e number of reps or total weight) is something you need to push each training? So if you had less rocovery, you would still push the weight or reps but do less sets? What would be than an optimal set range and when would you increase the number of sets?
Adding a set can actually work for those having not optimal training volume(lower than they can recover from). But it's not a progressive overload, just an attempt to find your optimal weekly number of sets per mg.
This just seems like semantics, saying the same things with the different words. "Doing this won't get you there", "except that it does but in a different way".
Surely adding sets could be seen as progressive overload as it increases the stimulus? E.g if I do 1 set of 10 pushups every other day for a month and then in month 2 I do 3 sets of 10 pushup every other day I've progressed the stimulus. While thus can't be viewed as a measure of progression in its self it is definitely a progression in overall workload.
@@johnmorgan7989 Why not? If you want more sets, you just do it, I could have done 20 sets yesterday instead of 8 sets. But I didnt because it isnt progressive overload in any way nor doesnt it help me build more muscle. Only thing it can overlod is your work capacity/cardio which doesnt have anything to do with muscle growth and strength unless you are very very very out of shape.
Decide if you want to look like a tour de france cyclist or a mr olympia competitor. Then train accordingly and you will get what you expect, simple as that.
Unrelated question: Is it better or worse to keep the back rounded during seated leg curls if your goal is to target the hammies? I noticed for myself and my gf that when we lean forward (to create more stretch) in the most lengthened position our lower back starts rounding. If we lean less forward and try to avoid this we aren’t able to use the same amount of weight.
Key with those is to go slow and stop at the most contracted position. Dont worry about stretched position, hit those on a different excersise (standing hamstring curls or deadlift)
Volumecels dont understand this simple topic. You cant add sets ad infinitum without having to make drastic changes to how the program is structured. Load/reps progression is much more feasible at least within reason as a "1st line treatment" to induce progressive overload. Bar none
You say adding another set is less effective than adding weight or reps, but what about the say that higher volume (as long as you can recover) help hypertrophy? Isn't higher volume is better than lower volume ? (Again as long you recover)
I found volume was set by how long I had been training. 3 sets per muscle HEAD (not group) after 5 years worked, as did 1 set per muscle head from 0-3 years. I did 2 sets per muscle head for awhile in between, but I dont have a good estimate for the numbers on it.
One thing I’ve always questioned is, does muscle damage get repaired at the same time as the super compensation, or after the muscles have been repaired? I understand in terms of the model, but mechanistically, what happens in practice?
Doubt there's much we know about it still. It would make sense that muscle can strengthen and repair at the same time provided there is enough energy and building blocks.
I dont know if all this info on the internet is because of the generation gap ..but most of these posts are basic and if your training correct should be intuitive .
There's progressive overload on paper and there's progressive overload in reality. You can do the same 5 reps of squats on paper but have better form, faster concentric or more controlled eccentric the next time you squat the same weight for the same amount of reps. So it's still progressive overload.
Depends on the muscle group and whether the first exercise is hardest in the short range or more towards end/long range. One can not recover as easily from 2 sets or deep reverse lunges as from 2 sets of hip thrusts/45 degree back extensions. Even if rep ranges and reps in reserve are equated.
1 per muscle head for the first few years. So for back you are talking rhomboids, lats, traps as a minimum. Lower back is optional and generally a bad idea unless you are experienced or a gymnast. Upper traps is optional too. Rotator cuff is 2 or 3 muscle heads and could be back or shoulders, up to you. So back alone is 3-8 sets at beginner level., just as an example.
@drno62 Thats a difficult question, mainly because I have no idea what you know, I cant even see you to get an idea of your experience. I will assume you know nothing, but I will answer it with some detail. Its going to be long. The short answer is that its simply not worth it. A longer answer is that its not necessary except in a few specific cases, like persuing planche in calisthenics or gymnastics. The real answer is that its extremely easy to get a really good lower back workout. Its unlike any other muscle. You dont go to failure, you dont use a challenging resistance, you do what feels like a fluff set and find out the next day it was way too much. You use it as a support muscle anyways, you lock it out so it does not move during romanian deadlifts, for example. Its a lot like abdominals in that you CAN target it, but there is no need. Actual bodybuilders only target it if they are making a video or impressing somebody. You just skip it, it gets built as a sideeffect of other excersises, and dont worry about it. If you do overtrain lower back, unlike abs, you are in for a world of hurt. It will take weeks to recover, unlike every other muscle (except rotator cuff) that will be fine in 2-4 days. It will be tense as hell, hurt to get out of bed, cramping all the time when you are standing or walking or doing anything. Its almost guaranteed to cause you to miss some workouts. Stretching it is very difficult, and will likely cause you to accidentally overtrain it again. There are techniques, but they are not obvious. This is getting long, so hopefully that mostly answered the question.
I really would like to agree with you on these things at some point but again I can't. Point 1: You're both right and wrong. Being able to life more IS a consequence of the prior workouts, yes, but without the progressive overload (eg staying at the same weight and reps) you'll soon stop getting bigger/stronger. So progressive overload is both a consequence and the cause for continuous hypertrophy / strength gains. Point 2: You're wrong. Your opinion is based on the assumption that anything other than a slight weight or rep increase will cause overtraining. This is obviously not necessarily true. An extra set may provide just the right amount of extra stress to progress, as might a drop set, forced reps, whatever. Its bonkers that you say any of this is not contributing to progressive overload when it's all as valid as an extra rep or weight.
So what do you recommend? To keep the same weight until it feels relatively easy for example you start with 0RIR and when you feel it’s 2 RIR then add weight or reps? If you need to change program what do you seek? I was previously doing fullbody 3x a week 3 sets 0RIR but then I started regressing so I change to allow more recovery a little less frequent.
Yes you can do same sets/reps for a while until youre eventually able to add that extra rep. You need appropriate volume and intensity of course and make sure you recover from it. If you were regressing you probably werent recovered. Maybe full body 3x week is too much for you now so I would change to something with 2x week frequency. Maybe upper/lower 4x week while every bodypart 2x week.
Been waiting for consistent content from this channel for years! Menno has been a major authority figure in the fitness industry but mostly behind the scenes compared to most influencers today. Hope you finally get the recognition you deserve Menno.
So my answer is fractional plates , i got some about 8 weeks ago , i have been able to drive progressive overload with them in a way/rate i haven't been able to in years! adding 500 grams to a consistent reps/sets a workout has pushed me well passed where i was 2 months ago. 2.5kg increments are just to large for small/upper body movements!
I think my biggest takeaway from this video is that any sort of stagnation in your meso/macro is the result of overtraining, meaning if you can successfully standardize/make most relevant variables constant (sleep, diet, lifting form, training program) then stagnation has to stem from training the relevant muscle group/doing the relevant exercise too early. I spent the last few years on the same program trying increase weight & reps, but I'd always use deloads and come back off the deload at too low of a weight; so most of my mesos would always finish at or around the same working load.
That lifter who gets stuck at 200 kilos x 5 is where training gets interesting. I remember getting stuck at that kind of weight in the deadlift for 5 reps. Whenever I would try to go higher than 450 lbs (205 kg) I would be unable to do more than 3 reps. After a few weeks without progressing at all, meaning I was totally unable to add even a single rep, I added a set, but the set was done with a much lower weight. I started doing 450 lbs x 5, then 335 lbs x 5. I responded well to this. About a year later, I did 505 x 4 and then 440 lbs x 6 // 230 kg x 4 & 200 kg x 6. Doing something like straight sets for higher volumes worked at times, but more often than not, it got me stuck with the added discomfort of back soreness.
You mean Smith machines? They can be useful, but if you can do the same with a free weight, I generally prefer that for the greater freedom of movement.
@menno.henselmans No the Swiss machines a gym near me has them , it basically focuses on the negative aspect of machines built very advanced and differently
I tried exercising utilizing this exact protocol when I was newer to lifting and I would find that in order to achieve the extra reps and lift the extra weight for progressive overload, I would increasingly cheat on the reps. What also tends to happen as you repeat exercises, you also get very proficient in them and you'll do more reps in better form and with better range of motion, which will substantially reduce both weight and reps (I personally went from doing 18-20 reps to 8-12 reps in the same lift, but much better form and cadence with the same weight). The problem is the progressive overload. Did I successfully progressively overload, or did I just cheat the movement / used less range of motion. Further complicating this is just general well being and other life factors that can impact how hard you can lift that spontaneously come up. Progressive overload may be able to tell you that you are getting stronger, but it may not be telling you that your target muscle or target muscle group is getting stronger. With just using progressive overload, you have to assume all other confounders stay the same, but they do not. Your months and months of 'progressing' your chest muscles, for example, could just be you progressing your triceps at the expense of your chest muscles, which will then be astoundingly weak because you were under the false impression that your chest was growing when it was just staying the same or even regressing for your triceps to take over the exercise, so in this instance, you've spent months reinforcing poor biomechanics, but you've successfully progressively overloaded. So not only does this hypothetical lifter have to start from 0 again and train their chest specifically, they have to painstakingly reprogram their neurology which will likely result in muscle loss during the process. And then with utilizing something like rest periods, while the individual set may not be conducive to stimulus, I would argue that the totality of the workout has more to say than just stimulus per set. If you are constantly pushing for lower rest periods, you are reducing the amount of junk volume you have to grind out to get effective reps that build muscle, this is also the basis for myo reps. So if you do 3 sets with low rest periods, the first two sets may be sub optimal for growth, but the last set is extremely fatiguing and produces a substantial amount of stimulus and growth, so you can use the lower rest periods as sort of pseudo warm up / pre fatigue sets for the last set to be a monster set. Resting 25-35 seconds on average and improving that to 20-30 while keeping form and reps would probably mean more muscle growth as well, strength endurance and hypertrophy aren't mutually exclusive.
Exactly right, lets say you did three sets of five first one 2.5 rir and last set 1, if you during few sessions these number change to 3-4 rir first set and last 2 rir for sure, now these would be more safe ground to add 2.5 kg to keep the same volume or even reduce it slightly if needed to catch up, progressive overliad is thoygh the symptom of overcompensation and also the extra stimulus of it
that distinction progressive overload as effect vs cause, is very artificial... and kind of even wrong. Keeping stress high means that the stimulus is still stressful. The absolute weight which can be lifted will increase, as time progresses. weight and strength increase, and of course for a give strength you need more weight. Both aspects are progressing. ...and the differential of both, dx/dt, decreases over time and gains
to me this is slightly confusing because we also hear that "volume is king". Any Mike Mentzer fanboy will take this video and say "See! All that matters is adding weight or reps and doing a second set is stupid!" So how does this video relate to your video on mechanical tension and the area under the curve etc??
So i still have a bit of confusion left. I am not sure if i got everything correctly. Progressive overload is not a driving factor of muscle growth, its mechanical tension. Progressive overload is just a way to ensure you train hard enough as you progress. You can possibly make gains without implementing progressive overload the way everyone suggest. For example you do your set to full failure, next time you do it to 1 RIR, then to 2 RIR, then 3 RIR, 4 RIR. Then up the weight and its now to failure again. If you train with enough volume, and your recovery is good then you should still make gains with something that might even look a bit like regressive overload? Progressive overload means that each time you need to train harder than las time. But if you are not making any strength gains from your workouts (overtraining, not recovering, poor diet, or other reasons) then forcefully trying to create progressive overload would do more harm than good to you? So i imagine i am not the only one who have different strength levels on different days depending on how i sleep, what i eat, how well i am rested, depending on moon phase and star alignment. So sometimes i cant just simply add 1 more rep because i am supposed to progressively overload. I feel weak and cant even train as hard as last time. And other day i can easily add 2 reps. So as long as i train close enough to failure (whatever my failure is at the moment) i can just ignore progressive overload?
Because over time your performance might decrease due to factors like poor sleep, bad diet, alcohol consumption, etc And you would think that you’re still doing good while in fact you are regressing
Thanks for this video. Many of its content seems common sense to me, but I appreciate that someone as competent and qualified as you deals with this subject, adding to my knowledge or explaining the precise causes of the progress in hypertrophy. When I started to train mostly with resistance bands, many people said to me : bands are so inferior to weights because they make it very difficult or even impossible to set up and track progressive overload ; they loose tension over time so that the repetitions become easier and you don’t know exactly how much tension you’re getting ; or nonsense like “weights provide constant resistance, unlike elastic bands”, which totally ignores the most basic physics of lever arms, which implies that for some exercises at least, the increasing resistance of elastic bands is not a disadvantage but an asset ; and when it’s not, for many exercices, you can reduce the tension during the concentric phase by moving closer to the attachment point and moving away during the eccentric phase in order to adapt the resistance. Anyway, I don’t know how much tension I use, I don’t even count my repetitions for most exercises, I don’t try to implement any kind of progressive overload and I absolutely don’t care. As long as you train to failure or at least around failure, you progress, and progressive overload is just the consequence of your gains, not their cause. If someone needs to set up progressive overload to make progress, that person loves complicating life but is not training hard enough, plain and simple.
Just to provide some constructive feedback. I think the information in your videos is extremely good and helpfull to understand how everything works, and sorting facts from bro science. But I think your videos could use some visualizations. The information is really good and valuable, but I feel like you really have to listen very closely to everything you say, or watch the video back a couple of times to get all the golden points. The graphs in the "What is progresive overload?" chapter were really usefull to understand the concepts you descibe for instance, but in the "what about adding sets, decreasing rest interval, and increasing repetition duration" chapter I could have used maybe a couple of bullets points to keep track of the reasons why decreasing rest interval is bad way to track progressive overload and strenght progression. So just having an editor that can maybe add these small visualizations to make the concepter easiere to understand would be very helpful. Plus it makes the videos a bit more engaging and entertaining to watch.
As said by Menno a very understandable explanation.... ALSO you reach your progressive overload Limit according to you genetics and Hormone level. When you reach that point and you continue trying,,, and trying Hard with different programs because you did not realize that you reached your limit .... then you body tells you with his own signals,,,,and injuries began coming...... Or If you want to continue progressing even if you reach your limit than you have to supplement with vitamin S... and every time you reach your limit according to the dose(hormonal level) ,,,, either you are satisfied , or else you have to upper the dose of the vitamin ..... But, if you continue upping the dose, then your body will reach another variable limit with a signal that now is a bit dangerous or deadly.....
I'm a long time follower of Dr Yessis ( he died recently) over 30 years , but the program didn't really make sense to me ! It was a kind of take on Art Jones system ! But I couldn't really see the value .
@@deanpaulson6714 Oh, RIP dr Yessis. I found out about dr Mike listening to his and Yessis' talk. I even tried 1x20 last couple of months, but my progression slowed down pretty quickly even though I'm a beginner. . Didn't help that I was doing it on caloric deficit and I'm almost 40.
How about just go to the gym, start with 10-12, if it's easy increase weight, if it's too hard decrease weight. Do 3 sets. Drink your 5$ protein shake and eat an egg.
Sure, good luck reaching +140kg bench, +180kg squat, +220kg deadlift and all other ‘’strong’’ targets without Elite genetics with this method. You will just got stuck in all exercises at a specific weight
He just explained that adding sets is different then adding reps. Adding sets will lead to the need of more recovery and can cause you to not progress eventually.
@@cornebeusekom3575 yeah, maybe if you're training endurance, adding sets could make sense, but if you want strength and muscle mass then adding too many sets or repetitions will just make your muscles tired.
