I think what I’ve found so enjoyable with both Homeric epics is it’s willingness to lead us to understand the worst actions and worst people in deeply meaningful ways. It is very easy to merely make a man like Agamemnon, Odysseus, etc absolute monsters - and that is what you later see from Greek writers, but Homer provides us a totalizing view of these characters. I recall specifically Odysseus hiding his tears as the singers speak of Troy. He is an excellent liar, someone who hides what he’s really thinking to get what he wants - this may well be a product of that, and how his lies also entangle him. We come to know his identity, how he is very intentional towards how he directs or obsufcates it, but ultimately, what he is using it for, and what he what he seeks to achieve with it. Odysseus is a cruel and prideful man, and he lets us see why Odysseus is cruel and what that cruelty is in the context of his character. Only someone who fears allowing victims of rape to live would mean the loss of his family would be driven to murder them in cold blood. I’m referencing Odysseus here because I’ve read it in its entirety and am currently only 8 books through the Iliad, but I think a similar reading can be given to a character like Agamemnon.
I just finished the Illead on audiobook. I think it was awful to listen to all the war and murder, but it's what our culture is based on at the bottom so it's good to learn about.
Agreed. As myth and (to a degree) historical record--it bespeaks the sordid primal urges in our roots; as literature, however--it, along with The Odyssey, gives us the beginnings of western lit!
I really need to read more classics, totally see the benefits to it you mentioned at the beginning, in fact that's one of the greatest things about art to see and follow the constant evolution, and classics are important cuz they greatly influence a lot of what comes next but also how we read about the past never read the Greeks but that should change soon, good vid!
Hi Chris! I’ve read The Iliad three times and The Odyssey twice since I first watched this video 😊 (see below). Will you continue with your Western Core series? I am still reading through the Western Canon (currently reading my 20th Shakespeare play: King Henry IV Part 2). And… when is the next bookshelf tour? Hope you’ve been well! Iliad: Richmond Lattimore Peter Green Caroline Alexander Odyssey: Richmond Lattimore Emily Wilson
Any particular reason you didn’t show Popes translation? Any thoughts on why it’s not as popular? I’m a fan of Pope and have always been curious about this. Love the channel Thanks!
Nah, no particular reason. If I had to guess, I'd say it isn't as popular because the average student to whom we first expose Homer's great epic does not have any ear for Pope's language.
Have you read the Aeneid by Virgil? I read both The Iliad, The odyssey and the Aeneid in high school. Have to re read all three eventually because I don’t remember much from these books.
What a fantastic video. Looking forward to the rest of the series. I have Iliad in the Loeb edition(s). Would you say different translations bring more to the text or is one more than enough? Thank you for recommending the book on Homeric Greek, I wasn't aware we even had that type of material out. It is due time for a reread. After you finish this series have you considered doing similar types of videos on Virgil's Aeneid or ancient playwrights? I'd personally really enjoy those. You've made a curious observation on the subtle way sex is written. It would be curious to think of it more, in the grand view of literature. I believe that the vivid portrayals started to become the norm only in the 20th century, obviously there were writers like de Sade, but it feels like he was provocative for the sake of provocation. But it makes one wonder, if it weren't for people like him, would literature still avoid vivid descriptions of sex? Looking forward to the rest of the series. Cheers!
Thanks so much! I would definitely say multiple translations bring more to the text. Translation is an art just as the original work is an art (though the latter much more so). Comparative reading across translations can often spark curiosity to dig into the original text and decide for yourself which is more effective. The book Le Ton Beau de Marot (Douglas Hofstadter) really solidified my appreciation for translation.
Graphic portrayals of sex etc. was found outside of (pretentiously) 'high' literature like epic, tragedy and history, e.g. the Greek iambic poetry of Archilochus, the Roman satire of Horace, Persius and Juvenal, the Roman picaresque novels by Petronius and Apuleius. Modern romance has an anecstor in the Greek novel, e.g. that by Longus.
Indeed, and I’ve got them all (Iliad, Odyssey, Aeneid)! I use the cheap paperbacks for my take-everywhere, constant-reading copies so I don’t worry about them getting banged up. How great are the Everyman hardbacks?! Thanks for taking a moment to comment nonetheless.
