ILLIT's Debut and the Manufactured Nature of Kpop 

like you said, "to be a fan of something you have to acknowledge all aspects of whatever you're a fan of" 👏 join the fight, boycott hybe!

Ill-it members were definitely formed to fit the pre determined concept (and target markets, SK and JP) VS a concept being chosen that fit the members chosen. It makes more sense to me now why Jeemin, Chanelle, and Jiwoo weren't chosen. I think members being chosen based on the concept makes perfect sense, they just went about it the wrong way.

This will be Hybe’s third girl group in two years with five members and two foreigners. Also their second attempt at making a six member girl group with four Korean members and two Japanese members…yet one of the Korean members from each group left very close to debut. Just some observations

Viewers need to adjust their expectations accordingly. People need to realise that RUNext was an “in-house” survival show for a permanent group. They were all trainees from the same company, not other agencies. In-house survival shows serve two main purposes and that’s marketing and research. It’s basically a way for the company to promote the group, figure out which trainees are popular and who’s not, also to evaluate which trainees can perform under more pressure. And from there they will have their favourites based on who they think will fit the concept.

It’s really interesting to see “cute” and “light” concepts come back to the mainstream and this time being wholly embraced by the international kpop fanbase as well. Just a few years ago every girl group was lacing up their leather combat boots and donning on fishnets and every group who didn’t was deemed as male pandering and more Korean focused. After NewJeans success I definitely am not surprised more companies are debuting groups with this cuter concept. I think the upcoming SM girl group will also follow this trend (although with a more pronounced lore because they’re an SM group of course). But one thing I’m worried about is that often times what’s paired with this concept are very young girls debuting at a higher rate than before. I still hold the belief the kpop industry isn’t a place for minors and with the documentaries such as Quiet On Set exposing the abuses that go on in Hollywood to child stars (who are placed in very similar situations like Kpop idols are), I’m worried what these young, unprotected, and indebted girls will have to experience especially if they’re debuting in less privileged spaces.

8:20 "At times kpop really does feel like a machine" It's not sometimes, it's ALL THE TIME. Kpop is the most manufactured music industry in the world. It's so plastic (the type of company they enter literally decides how they dance, how they pose, how they sing from the second they get in. That's why it's so easy to tell who's jyp, yg, sm, hybe etc) yet we're still all here listening to it.

Industry and art will always conflict in music. For me it's always difficult to decipher how much the artist is involved in their own work and what kind of art they want to show to the public. (Whether in vocals, lyrics, dance, composition, etc.). Welcome back Taejiu.

i wouldn't be surprised if belift was inspired by newjeans when creating illit's lineup & even the album. to me it feels very obvious, but i think they've done an ok job at differentiating the two. if anything, illit reminds me more of groups like txt, triples, loona, & gfriend. txt especially who debuted with a similar magical concept.

In response to the manufactured/rigged survival show, I wish more kpop company go with the JYP route where there's no audience participation in voting and just internal company judges that discuss openly on what they want to put on the final line up. A2K left me with a good feeling cause every step of the way I could clearly deduce what the judges were thinking when they rank the girls, and the final line up makes sense. It's just less drama all around without the viewers making a ruckus about the voting

I was here for runext, and I disagree with anyone bullying or harrassing the girls who made it- have a problem with the judges, have a problem with Hybe, but the girls had nothing to do with it. That being said, the favoritsm on runext and the fact that they already knew what they wanted was always clear to me. They found any reason to shove out contestants they didnt want. They used girls like Ruka for their popularity, the used her sad story, and then they eliminated her. They said 'global girl group' but didnt give international fans any voting power in the last episode. My greatest issue with all this is those girls who were eliminated arent dolls or toys. They were people with dreams, ambitions, some of which spent years before hand being a trainee. Why waste their time, some of them feeling like this was their last chance, why waste their time if Hybe already knew what they wanted? Like, they were people! Not dollar signs! In the case of Pride and Scum, they knew Scrum was a song that fit the final concept- anyone who got Pride was instantly disadvantaged. So what was the point in doing that? I seriously just dont get it. Why disrespect these girls time and energy? Why label girls like Jeemin #1 trainee who would have absolutely fit the concept and then just- hang her out to dry? Why have votes if only two of the members were decided by fan votes? I just- runext was a mess. I really wanna like illit, but all Im reminded of is how the others were screwed over and it just puts me in a bad mood. I wish them all the best though.

Well now that illit is debuted we can say they are manufacturered but very well manufacturerd the songs are soo good especially magnetic and midnight fiction

people constantly commenting about chanelle under illits posts even six months after runext ended is so crazy like you’d think they were bullying her on the show or something😭

honestly, think the concept choice was a really good idea, marketing wise. it's different enough that it isn't new jeans, but it's close enough that they could be considered to be in the same niche. by doing this, they're essentially creating competition for their own group while profiting from it. they're pratically monopolising this type of concept, while creating an illusion of variety, if they manage the group successfully. i would have prefered variety in concepts and music, and i do think that this strategy could backfire, given how easily a concept can get oversaturated. however, if we're talking money, they did what they do best and found a way to capitalise off of what they already have.

I come from a time when 1992/3 was the maknae. lol I'm only 30 but damn I feel old.

genuinely missed your commentary videos, so glad you’re back!

Honestly I feel that the type of structure that was used for the baby monster show would have made more sense for illit, since they already had people in mind in terms of how they fit the concept. They could've had the prospective lineup do the trainee evaluation style that the baby monster show used. But that's just my opinion But yeah, it shouldn't have been surprising. The company belift already had their internationally popular group with enhypen, the logical step for them was to have one domestically popular, as well as enticing to the Japanese market. Also yes that last part I think it's important for us as fans to find a balance with acknowledging the manufactured aspect of kpop while not spiraling into an existential crisis, because like you say there is still some good in certain aspects of kpop.

As popular as she was, I seriously can't picture Chanelle in Illit's concept at all. Like my brain can't even imagine her performing these songs. I liked her so much, and I think she deserves a chance in the industry, but I don't think she was ever seriously considered even once by producers for this group. I think you're right, Belift had a VERY specific vision for the group and they were going to make it happen no matter what. This is why they ensured that 4 out of 6 slots would not be determined by audience voting. They didn't want to compromise their pre-planned vision for the group.

I had not been giving any thought to ILLIT either, but after watching this I gave it a listen. I'm also piqued. Purple Kiss concert was great for me, one of my favorite's that I went to last year. Small venues are great.

I feel like people forget that it is important for the music industry to be manufactured in order for the music and artists to thrive, the amount of work that goes in order to make these groups and their comebacks takes a village. So yeah, I rather things to be planned in order for them to have the best possible outcome. Despite not liking the way R U Next? presented itself and kinda tainted a bit of the group’s reputation, I can see objectively why certain decisions were made regardless of how I feel about them. Also, just because something is manufactured, that’s doesn’t mean that it’s inauthentic and I think fans forget that those two things can coexist.

Nice! I also saw Pixy live last December

ILLIT will also have their own storyline that may be connected somehow to ENHYPEN and &TEAM... Their webtoon will be called "SUMMER MOON". I'm so excited for their debut later today, I love their sound and I agree, I hope it's longer than 2min30secs

anyone who says illit and new jeans aren’t similar in any way is purposely acting dense.

their songs are def gonna be short lol, tho i was surprised at rescene dropping a 3 minute predebut song

unpopular opinion, but considering that Wonhee had only been training for maybe a month before the show…she actually was pretty good. her vocal tone is naturally very pretty and she kept up with the dances just fine. her first time being on stage ever was on this show, so yes she had stage presence issues, but so would anyone else in that position.

I think the weirdest promotion for this group was the fact that they attended Paris Fashion Week. It’s just such a strange way to put them out there publicly before they even debuted. Their debut was near, yes, but it still makes me wonder why they attended such a huge event so quickly into their careers. All it does is make me hope hybe won’t over-promote them, just for them to not be as popular or successful as they were hoping. I still don’t understand to this day why SM sent Aespa to Coachella so early into their career. The crowd (at least from the videos I saw) was so dead it was hard to watch. I just don’t want the same to happen to these girls. Edit: Maybe my choice of wording wasn’t really how I wanted it to be said (sorry about that😭 I did write this in a quick second not thinking it would gain so much attention). I think that the strategy was more interesting than anything else, and as people have said, it did gain some positive attention to the group. Obviously I’m not trying to pray on their downfall here, but it was just something related to the group I thought was strange, that’s all. Another edit: AH OKAY so the album is out! Love it a lot, I just wish it was longer than 9 minutes😭

I wasn't even worried about it until it was mentioned in this video but ugh I hope the songs are close to being three minutes or longer... I want to really bask in how good this debut will be. Also, i agree that the new jeans comparison is so shallow. The only song of theirs that I could see fitting into illit's discography from what we've heard so far is "asap."

Excellent insight, thanks for making this video! I too acknowledge that most of the time when Idols are "pretending" to be your bestfriend is a little sucky and them feeding on parasocial relationships are kinda manipulative so that is what I hate about kpop cause most of us don't know any better and can get stuck in these rabbit hole thinking we mean more than just a fan to them. However, as long as we're aware of the boundaries and stuff and enjoy them as excellent performer and understand that they're not goddess and there are actually a whole lot of people who contribute to making their music (like literally most of the gg i assume can't use ableton or know what midi is, and most can't even write a song) we should be a-okay.

Yunah doesn't totally fit this concept either but as she's quite versatile it works. I think that would have been the case for Jeemin and Youngseo too. They were versatile. Now that we discovered their concept, I understand why Chanelle and Jiwoo were not selected. But I wonder why Jeemin, despite having first place in the last evaluation, was not selected. The same goes for Youngseo who was selected but was removed from the final line up.

My jaw dropped at 2:02 what do you mean someone a decade younger than me is debuting????? The oldest member of UNIS is my age and from my perspective it must be so strange for her to be that much older than not only the youngest but the other members as well. I mean the second oldest member is still 6 years younger than her.😭

As someone who watched R U Next, illit's concept is frustrating because the show didnt focus on this type of concept, if anything there felt like more fierce stages. Iroha in particular really surprised me with her image as she became known for her fiercer stage presence. If the show had been clear that they were looking to form a group with an innocent concept they shouldve led with that from the beginning and evaluated trainees by that standard, I think thats why people are feeling annoyed right now.

i have absolutely no problem with companies having a prepared concept for a group before doing a show to form it. however, why making contestants do concept battles and stuff if the concept is decided already? and if you want to test members by creating a show but already have a specific concept chosen you don’t do voting. it’s obvious they chose the members by themselves and there wouldn’t be anything wrong with it if they didn’t make us and the contestants think that the votes count. look at baby monster’s show. there weren’t fans voting but so many people watched it either way.

I showed ILL IT to my friend like 2 weeks ago and she immediately exclaimed "New Jeans 2.0?!!" lmao In the case of rigging, ILL IT definitely is a heavily rigged group. Imagine following the show for a couple of weeks, voting for your favorite candidates and hoping for them to debut then suddenly at the last episode, HYBE drops the ball on you and state that 4 of the supposed 6 debuting members will be handpicked by the judges/PD? If that isn't rigging, idk what else to categorize it. Well at least they were honest that they gave zero sh0ts about the fans voting on the show.

Ngl I'm a bit confused what you will call manufacturers but excited nevertheless!

Thr new jeans formula is there From 1.music construction you can hear the influences the way the arrangements are very similarly 2. Styling design babygirl for illit and i guess y2k ish for new jeans what makes it feel the same is the girls have body figures and features along with pretty much the same hair design as new jeans 3. You can tell the same they have the same choreographer thatd doing both . their formations and grtting into those formations are the same along with center moments the burst of cute face and hand gesture moments that each are given is the same. 4. And the videography is the same same filters difference concepts tru but how some moments are framed you can see the similarities All in all these debuts to me dont seem different the line ups are put together and boom 3 minths later we have a mini album with 15 songs, 7 music videos, and pre shot devut stages etc not alot of time to think outside the boxes 😂 Its like saying how SM use the same sets for music videos thst we call out each big company have something they do thats so repeative jyp is the damn music 😂

I'm here from the future, unfortunately all the songs are really short-

THEIR DEBUT IS IN 2 HOURS!!!

Rate ILLIT as a group name down below

For everyone comparing them to Newjeans… yall suck for bullying these young girls 😭. Lets just leave it at that.

Honestly I don’t understand why they had a voting system in the first place. They should’ve done something like a JYP survival show, like Niziu or A2K. Why make a show were I could vote for my favorites the whole time only to throw it away last minute. Honesty this is the first time a survival show has made me so angry. I feel like all my votes were for nothing.

Honestly, their debut song is a bop for me. Didn't like it at first but it grew on me. Firtst time that I saw the mnusic video, I immediately thought this is why the front runner or best trainees didn't make it. I do believe that the concept was already determined before the finals. That is why the members were chosen how they were chosen. If you know what I mean. I also believe that the reason the other girl left is because she learned about the concept of the group and was not here for it. If you watched the show, it's clear that she was meant to be in a group that has a girl crush concept. Also, it's obvious that that is the vibe that she wants. Taking into consideration that she is a big fan of 2ne1. So it all make sense that Jiwoo was not picked for this group. Let's not forget, he age is already considered old in the kpop industry. So if she was picked for this group and this is the concept. It will not be suitable for her. I also think that Yuna is not for this concept. Uhm! But it's somehow suitable for her compared to Jiwoo. Or was I jst brainwashed to think it suits her since I like the song now. She was also more of a girl crush concept. Well that's what I think watching the show. Anyways, I will still listen to the song coz I like it. I will still watch their live performances. But I don't consider myself a fan. Well, I like two of the members since I was rooting for them during the show. But it's not enough to pull me to become a fan yet since I was not really happy when the line up was announced during the finals. But yeah, it was all planned. I strongly believe that.

Illit was originally 6 members. But one girl left.

Another thing that's wild to me is that people never seem to realise that trainees in survival shows saying "this might be my last chance to debut" is on purpose to make the audience feel more emotionally connected to them. Sure Jiwoo didn't debut this time but now she has a bunch of predebut fans and that will make hybe prioritise her debut in the future because they will already have marketing done for her. Right?? Am I the only one seeing this??? They already set up a precedent of bringing back popular trainees with &team, it doesn't seem like a crazy idea to me

All I wanna say is that Wonhee never had to worry, even if she was untalented, she would’ve made it. 100% without a doubt.

I don't think I'm a fan of newjeans but I really like their music to some extend. With Lesserafim and now illit, they sound so forgettable. Maybe it's just me but illit's debut is so meh that I just watch the MV and can't remember one single thing about the song and the video. With newjeans, I know how much of a genius Min Heejin is to curate a group so profound that can give teens under the age of 16 nostalgic feeling through their music, reaching out to producers with no history for kpop to create a sound like 'super shy' to last in your head for so long, not to get started on 'Ditto". I won't be too harsh for illit's line up, I couldn't care less, didn't watch the show. However, these girls won't be singing like actual singers anytime soon and I got that from the genre of their songs. I will say this; whoever is in charge of their career is not doing so hot. Take notes from Min Heejin and think outside of the box so your debut project won't last only for that three minutes the song runs for.

It was so obvious when the judge purposely gave Chanelle a low mark to eliminate her 💀

imo yunah doesn't fit in with this group bc she has a more fierce/sharp look compared to the other members. don't get me wrong she's my fav in the group and she was my #1 pick in R U Next, but she would've suited a group with a more strong/mature concept. i would've loved to see her eat up a concept like when she sang Bad Girl, Good Girl again

If there's one thing I love about kpop's manufactured-ness, it's the fact that there's so many songs of the same sound or same concept to enjoy. I can find a ton of songs if I'm feeling like cute songs today. I can find a mountain load if I'm feeling dark and in my villain era tomorrow! K-pop delivers a variety of sounds and in a non-cringey way! If a western artist sang a song like Likey, or Red Flavour, it would be cringey! But in k-pop that's peak perfection😂😂😂😂😂 So I love this genre. So much. And it's not that I'm delulu and ignore the darker things going on, but it's just, there's just so much hate and toxicity in this genre's fandoms that's already too much. I'm here for the music and how it makes me feel and that's what I focus on for my peace of mind. And from time to time, yes I do indulge in the fact that these idols think I as a fan am special to them. Because there's groups in k-pop that truly adore it's fans and that kind of wholesome love is what makes this genre worth supporting.

3:06 I sincerely don't agree with the people saying it was rigged!! The reason why is because 4/6 members would've made it anyways based on votes, and only 2 of those 4 were producer pics. So, in reality the "final lineup" only has 2 producer picks. For context the final lineup included jeemin and jeongeun, so that would've meant no yunah and Moka. iroha and Wonhee (which a bunch of ppl didn't want in the group) were in the top 6 so they would've ended up in it anyways.

On my first listen, I love all four tracks in their debut mini-album, yet their EP is only 9 minutes and 36 seconds long.

As an olde kpop fan. These idols are still very young. I remember back in 2018 the average debut age was about 21 for idols. Which seems like a far cry from probably the 16 or 17 now. It’s just weird how kpop fans act like social justice warriors when it only comes to their group or preferred company, even though companies don’t deserve defence especially not multi billion dollar companies that are still exploiting underaged workers. Seriously. It seems like Hybe fans or bts fans since most of them are Hybe stans wanna defend Hybe with their lives for some reason. Like wow, Hybe pays their idols a 50/50 split that’s cool. They still have insane diets. They still are debuting young idols, and imo they are the reason idols are debuting younger and younger. You look at sm, yg, jyp. They had groups that would debut a young idol. But it’s not like they were tryna debut a whole group of high schoolers. It was a Taemin, a yeri, a sehun, and Tzuyu. It wasn’t everybody just grated high school or are still in school. And using one idol in one group as a defence to allow Hybe to debut minors in all their groups is such a weak piece of argument. Oh, jungkook, 1/7 Debuted as a minor. Tzuyu, 1/9. Sehun 1/12. This must mean 4/5 is good, 3/5 is good. Like nah. That is still weird shit like from before. It doesn’t matter that they are from Hybe and you make up that they aren’t like other companies. Making them a “I’m not like other girls” as a company is crazy. And I mean I’ll always fight this. Idk why kpop fans normalized it. Especially international fans. It seems like with illit there was a massive wave of people defending Hybe for debuting minors. It’s so weird. I swear they would’ve been a majority of fans saying it was weird only 4 years ago. Anyways, kpop is getting worse imo. Fans are acting like fans wars were bad 7,10,15 years ago. But it has become way worse, way more toxic nowadays. Who would’ve thought the fans that wanna stream songs nonstop for 24 hours or for a week nonstop would be toxic fans.

I've been following your videos here and there since the rebranding of Chaewon video, and I really enjoyed it. I've watched your Midas Touch video too! Keep going man, your content is really entertaining. Can't wait to see what you're coming up with next!

I love Magnetic. Really catchy and upbeat. They look promising, although I doubt they will be bigger than New Jeans but they definitely have the potential to be a top K-Pop Girl Group. As a Reveluv, I thank you for appreciating and highlighting Red Velvet's achievements and what makes them special in this industry ❤

This is my first video of yours that I’ve watched but I was literalllyyyyy talking about this to my boyfriend the other day. I didn’t watch Runext but I saw enough clips to know why those other girls weren’t picked… and I also want to add that having a concept in mind is great! However, in a survival show I feel like it’s not the best way to pick and choose who fits a vibe.

this show actually *was* rigged though. from the first episode where they had a high - mid - low rank where only one member from each group would go into specific ranks. a system that punished the well rounded groups and favoured the more amateur groups. they included international voters, who disproportionately made up the majority of votes for contestants like son jiwoo and chanelle moon, and they realised the way to get the undesirable - for their race, for their age, etc - trainees to rank low was to only accept korean votes for the final vote. during the last day, they released the interim vote with international voters and jiwoo placed 4th. for the most part, all of the talented high ranking trainees were at the top. they posted wonhee's rank before the interim vote order was revealed at 9th place, with the only trainee below her being himena... i genuinely think this was to make her fans panic and make sure to vote for her, because she ended up getting 3.3 million votes, which is wholly inconsistent with her votes throughout the show. i understand there were more eyes on the final and views were a bit higher, but that felt entirely manipulated by HYBE. not to mention the nonsense about P01 and P02 being decided by votes and the other 4 spots being producer picks. that being said, i can't be mad at a 15 year old who trained for a month getting fame and success handed to her. i like their music and they're decent performers. its a vocally weak group but standards for kpop are low anyways. ironically my favourite is wonhee (and also yunah). i hope they do well 👍

i saw pixy in vip as well! those girls were so good live. Seriously one of the best times ive ever had at a concert

I still couldn't get over the fact that my fav girls didnt debut except minju and yunah

maybe because of the reasons mentioned above ADOR is taking longer for the next album of NewJeans to change or evolve the musical direction of the group without losing the already established fanbase, or just waiting for everyone to forget how NewJeans sound so they can sell the same thing with a slight change.

We have been waiting for Belift's girl group and survival show for years and I was thinking that the girl group would also have a storyline in the same universe as Enhypen and &Team, like princesses (Selen) or Sooha or something else that would go along with the storyline. And since I had that concept in my mind, I wanted Chanelle, Jeemin and Jiwoo to be in the group. I honestly was very surprised when I saw Illit's concept, but I liked it, it actually looks fun and I think it suits the members, they can actually exist in the same universe with such a concept. But one thing I know about Belift and Hybe is that in the future, their concepts will look at stroyline from different angles and they will try new things.

I remember watching and following sixteen very heavily. And tho I am a once, the final 9 was questionable not to mention after some time I learned about how manufactured sixteen was. Then came PD101 and IOI and that was the very last show I followed and became an avid fan was. It's obvious the concepts was already there, they just look for the girls that fit it. Wether they have talent or not. They fit what the company wants, these survival shows are solely for people to talk about the new group, get them introduced to the public and to find the idols that fit the concept. Thats it. Its not about voting, the fans, or the idols themselves.

finally some justice for Jiwoo and Chanelle

i think my biggest problem is the styling. while i agree that the concept and sound between newjeans and illit are different... non of illits outfits seem new. illit just looks so plain, and not in a refreshing cute way but in a boring way.

Illit is belift’s second group and their first group, enhypen, was also selected thorough a survival show. It was also really obvious that some members were gonna debut on the iland just like illit. I think belift tried to catch people’s attention before the groups’ debut and create a fanbase

Tbh illit aren’t even young 😭 we should normalize now a 07 or 08 kids debuting bc debuting at 16 is completely fine! Those who complain need to humble themselves that they are just becoming older.💀 jungkook, wonyoung, iu, etc. They all debuted at 13-14, and that was whole back in 2015 or even earlier…young idols debuting has always been a thing on kpop industry ppl are just in denial

I think it's absurd for labels NOT to consider group synergy when they're forming a unit. Not every performer is right for every concept, unfortunately.

for some reason comparing everything everyone does to newjeans has become a (terrible) habit for kpop stans… and its unfair for all the groups/artists involved tbh. i could talk more about this but for now i‘ll just say that illit‘s stuff, from what i‘ve seen so far, is a lot more pastel-cutesy-girly focused, while newjeans is also focused on girlhood but in a more bright, “free-spirited” kind of way ?

this is off topic, but i'd love to hear your thoughts on le sserafim's latest mini-album. really missed watching ur vids :)

Tbh ive always found it weird how kpop fans will call in manufactured. Its never sat right with me. Like yes it alla business but so is the pop industry. literally every other industry is cus it business and they need to nake miney. But dispite that ive never thought of kpop groups as just yhe members more so as yhe entire team. Their are many ppl working hard behind the scenes and just because its not the idols don't nake it manufactured. A debut and comebacks aren't easy to make and do take a lot of thoughts and consideration so to just call it all manufactured seems a like ignorance. This brings me ti when first bts was introduced to the west they were labelled manufacturered.i always felt this was rooted in ignorance and undervalued all the hardwork many individuals put into it. And it was very easy to see especially cus bts is so opean about their process.

3:19 for anyone wondering how the lineup was chosen: 2 of the 6 members (one left though) were chosen through the votes. The two trainees with most votes of all 10 remaining candidates were automatically in the line up, resembling P01 and P02(the one who left). The other members however, and thats were it gets controversial were picked by judges alone. Votes and other scores didnt matter. My theory is that they had multiple concepts in mind and would form the remaining four members around the two trainees voted by fans. This would make sense regarding who fits the concept thr most, P01. So you could say that 4/6 members in the line up were "rigged" but that depends on how you define it. I personally wouldnt call it rigged, as in my eyes, its understandable to form the rest of the group around both fan favorites, so they would not feel like they wouldnt match as a whole

From an RUNext viewer, as much as the lineup was...inconspicuously questionable, I cant help but feel so proud of the girls. For me, I just keep seeing the 22 contestants that grew because they just have such a family connection to each other and it feels for the contestants and the viewers to just have this journey going through this competition. Although the elimination make no sense sometimes.

Its why after voting in R U Next (my first ever survival show) I have decided i will not be voting in any other survival show. After RUN it was obvious that they already have the concept and members picked out. They'll debut who they want to debut anyway. I'll watch but i won't vote👍

I feel that the concept of Illit mirrors Enhypen pretty well. As they are pretty much giving of Sailor Moon villains while Illit is giving of Sailor Moon vibes (saw someone say sailor moon on reddit and now its kinda stuck, but it does give of a japanese vibe I think). So I guess it was planned before. Also think some of the girls might have been Hybe favorites during the show but probably not all of them. Would guess they start the show with some favorites they wanna push, then they see someone better and change happens.

The only reason why ILLIT's concept is a "surprise" to me is because I never checked out the survival show, nothing about it. I didn't know the contestants, their skills, the aesthetic, the drama, nothing. The only reason surprising is in quotation marks is because I wasn't shocked by the concept, it wasn't an :0 moment but rather I hadn't made up a single concept for them in my head and people said they were going to sound like newjeans, so when they didn't, that made me double check. But them having a dreamy school girl concept with lofi music isn't surprising, but since there were no expectations for them from me, it didn't lower or higher my expectations. Just like an oh okay thing.

Honestly speaking they resemble newjeans only for their visual aesthetic choices, other than this they sound nothing like Nwjns, in fact i was surprised that ppl consider Nwjns as a cute group because if i had to describe Nwjns in 1 word i would use 'fresh' word not cute

Idol groups and kpop are not the same. Korean pop is veeeeery diverse, idols are under the umbrella of kpop and idols made “kpop” famous, but to narrow Korean kpop into “few young idols dancing groups” is too much. I think when people separate Idols from Korean pop, more great singers will have an spotlight.

I love your commentary. RUNEXT was bland compare to mnet's full of drama survival shows, but it's not rigged I think the word that describes the show was staged.. idek if that made sense. On a good note tho, some trainees who were on that show have preexisting fanbases who would support them if they ever join another survival, just like Jeemin now with Iland2.

I have a feeling that the reason why most people kept calling it rigged without knowing the manufactured nature of kpop, is probably because they're first time viewers of a survival show. I'll admit, R U NEXT was my first survival show, but since I already have some background in kpop I had some expectation of the debut group being rigged. Keep in mind these new viewers might be extremely underage and immature, they will and can irrationally hate for no reason.

This channel is more manufactured than its take on K-pop.

All pop is manufactured

I still think they had himena /yuna /moka in the mind for last spot whch was determined by their popularity moka was ignored in first few epis .. but later fans started making noise for her in Twitter n they saw that so they chose moka over himena but looks n vocal wise himena would been better fit rest of the fierce and older girls were never in their mind from the beginning.

I highly doubt that Yunah was meant to be in the original line up. She is doing a great job she just doesn’t fit the cute concept like the others. They probably only put her there so the public didn’t go crazy seeing mostly young teens in the group.

I honestly thought it was obvious from the start that Hybe had a concept in mind and chose the lineup based on it. Like yes, I was upset that two out of my three faves from the show didn't make it, but as soon as they announced the Moka Wonhee combo I understood why. Jeemin or Jiwoo just wouldn't fit unfortunately. But Yunah did, and Hybe got lucky in securing my attention 😅

The mv dropped a few hours after you posted so I'm gonna watch it after this video. I didn't watch the survival show and the only thing I know about it is the controversy surrounding that one ridiculously young member. While I did like the snippets played in the teasers quite a lot since I'll eat up anything even remotely close to lofi, I have to say that this group feels so manufactured it feels like I'm choking on plastic. Like damn hybe can we be a little more subtle? I had kind of the same reaction when nwjns first debuted. Back then, Lsf had JUST debuted and I saw another drop and my reaction was basically "oh another one... PASS". I'm eating up my words pretty hard now so I won't be surprised if I come around to this group later on. However, the difference with nwjns was that the only reason I didn't give them a chance right away was because i was feeling oversaturated with debuts. With illit I just get an off vibe. Esp with them attending fashion shows as literal trainees. Istg I sound old ah but shouldn't groups be allowed to have something of an established fanbase and artistic identity before venturing off into projects like these? Is this gonna be the norm in 5th gen now? As a 3rd gen stan this feels unnatural, for lack of a better term. But if I had to choose one word to describe the vibe of this group as of right now, it would be unnatural. Edit: Okay, I'm back after the first listen. The song sounds good but nothing like I've never heard before. The mv was nice and I loved the styling. I think I can definitely get around to this group. Remnants of the unnatural vibe are still lingering but I'm sure they'll go away with time. I have to say though, ig I was expecting more and it was kind of underwhelming but then again, this is only the first listen. There are only of amazing songs that I loved first listen.

Jiwoo and Chanelle didn't make it into the lineup because they were not popular with Koreans. They always ranked the lowest in domestic votes. In the final, Jiwoo ranked 9th out of 10 contestants in the voting. If she was popular with Koreans, she would have made it into the lineup like Wonhee. How is the show rigged? Can a show control how much a certain audience like a contestant? This is without mentioning she was on the "older" side as she is 22. Her potential as an idol was low compared to other talented and loved younger contestants. And Chaenlle was unprofessional af, she was given a main vocal position by the judges, and instead of being thankful and respectful, she looked at them with so much disgust that she made the atmosphere of the whole room feel uncomfortable, all of that because she didn't get the song "she liked". Even the guest judge was appalled by her behavior. And then in the following round she performed horribly, and then she got eliminated. I think you are missing a lot of context and are being misled by opinions that you got from TikTok or Twitter that came from people who didn't watch the show or were extremely biased. And Belift Lab has always said they will have the most say in picking the final lineup since the start, but I don't expect those who didn't even watch the show to know that.

1. Still salty about Jiwoo, she deserves justice 2. The motto "super REAL me" ironically looks so fake, honestly

Thoughts on Vcha?

I watched a bit of it. I love illit as a group and the music. But I sometimes I can't hate but feel that they felt manufactured. Comparably to newjeans which I'm also a fan of I felt it's less manufactured. If that makes sense, i don't think I can be as emotionally connected to illit than NewJeans

New Jeans doesn't reference contemporary R&B. Their producer is specifically referencing the R&B, dance and funk sounds from mid 90s to early 2000s music from the UK. That's where the Y2K reference comes from. Artists like Brand New Heavies, Morcheeba and Sonique who dominated that time period can be felt in New Jeans music. I'd like to see them continue the trend and get a little more experimental and reference a group like Portishead at least sonically.

i ain't gonna say much just that you are spitting facts. no cap.

Kpop group names are actually weird even before

very sad to see 99% of kpop stans just completely ignoring the hybe boycott... even people i thought might be vocal about it :( if anyone here is open to changing their minds please take this comment as your sign to do some research on it. please. we need every soul we can get behind this. *be the change you want to see in the world.*

there's nothing wrong about a company choosing members based on the choosen concept however they were so unclear about how they were choosing and that left so many fans of the show hurt, they gave us this illusion of voice by making us vote but they eliminated however they wanted even if they were inside the top6. Even in the finale they made us vote for a whole week just to announced the same day that our votes didn't matter because the live voting will only be for koreans and it weight more than 50% of the final votes also that it only was for two members, the rest were picked by the company, all of that was announced in the same day. It was a legal fraud.

It's a Hybe group with some really cute members, so I'm not at all surprised by this concept. While I do agree that the show did target certain contestants positively and some negatively, I do believe the members were chosen honestly- at least, honest to what Hybe said, which is that some members were chosen by the audience, and some members were chosen by the judges. I don't think Hybe would do full on vote rigging or anything when we saw just how badly it affected iz*one, which was a group that was extremely beloved and popular. What I will say is that I just watched ILLIT's debut MV and there's a few things I want to say: 1) the first half of the video reminds me so much of Pristin's debut and I might've teared up a tiny bit, while the second half was very NewJeans-esque; 2) the song itself is really lovely in my opinion, it did actually go a little against what I was expected, it's got a bit of NewJeans' ASAP vibes with the "bae-bae-bae" part; 3) Magnetic works well with the songs they created for RUNEXT (Pride, Scrum, etc.) while also suiting the actual debut lineup and giving something different; 4) I do wish they showcase each member's unique vocal color a bit more instead of having them blend, but overall the song is really nice and the concept works well, the lyrics are cute, the beat is fun and easy to listen to, and I'm going to watch the choreo soon to see how it works with the song.

I dunno if it's me being on the older side (I'm 34), but the manufactured nature of K-pop was very very obvious and in fact part of its appeal as early as my first forays into the genre (late 2022). In fact, after watching a ton of variety shows (e.g. Going Seventeen) and other music-adjacent formats and performances, I kinda got the feeling that... Everyone was in on it? In the sense that many idols are also fully aware of it and not trying too hard to hide that it's all an act of sorts. It actually felt refreshing compared to Western music and its claims to authenticity that are just as bogus in most major artists (to me at least). For me at least, K-pop, in the way that it is structured as a genre/cultural product, with its standards and tropes, seems as though it's saying "Fuck it - we all know this is late-stage capitalism trying to suck everyone dry, but hey, you gotta worship something, so here's a group or ten that you can do that with." And then the genuineness is what you find in between shots, in adlibs from tired, aging idols who've been in the business for long and don't want to keep up appearances anymore - and that's so refreshing to see in comparison to Western artists. ... Then again, maybe it's just me being a cynical Millennial.

I think that this might be why youngseo left, the concept their going for is gonna waste some girls potential lime Yunah and Youngseo who fit more baddie and mature concept. So maybe youngseo didn’t want to be stuck in concept that won’t make her shine and left

I still don't get why they made R U NEXT if they wanted to debut the girls because it has made the group so controversial and has done way more harm than good to their image especially internationally I saw their mv and everything and I know I would've liked it if the lineup was different in a way it's not like I was surprised R U Next turned out like that but its just such a turn off for me

Of course, it's manufactured. You'll have a hard time finding any garage band in any country making it these days.

i come here after listening to illit and it sounds like Newjeans like asap specially their title Magnetic even of some People don't admit it, the simple make-up looks like Newjeans, the outfit reminds me of Newjeans, Cool with you concept and Attention, i would prefer they choose cute concept but differently like for example Rescene choose innocent elegant concept but not like Newjeans

Funny how people is always saying "I don't care", but care enough to say, comment, post, edit... Just because they don't care and don't want others think they do....

The problem is that RUNEXT made people believe their votes actually determined who was going to be in the group. We all know members, songs, etc.. are predetermined. RUNEXT purposefully gave people the misconception that members were not predetermined.

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