In Defense of the Leaked Lego Orient Express 

Yes the set has been officially announced. This video is now effectively obsolete and I’m drafting up my thoughts for a follow up.

Watched all 7 mins and i have to disagree with you, my biggest problem with this set its the lack of continuity. The coaches are great, they are a very faithful representation of the real orient express coaches, the designers clearly put a lot of effort into them. The engine on the other hand looks cartoonish with goofy proportions and isn't based on any engine that ran with this train. I don't think fans were expecting a MOC like locomotive, i certainly wasn't, lego has to cut corners and I figured the locomotive was gonna be dumbed down. However at the very least they should have gone with a different wheel layout that the engines pulling this iconic train had (i mean come on we already have gotten so many 4-6-0 locos) and they should have at least gotten the color right. This set had the potential to go down in history as one of the best train sets lego has produced like the horizon express, emerald night, Maersk, or the latest croco loco.

the thing is, even the tender is more impressive than the actual loc. The locomotive literally is a stripped down/downsized version of the emerald night. After 14 years of waiting for a new proper steamtrain you can't blame the fans for just wanting something AT LEAST on par with the emerald night. Because with all these years of new elements I'm sure they had the ability to, although the 2nd coach might have given them a restricted parts budget.

My only issue with this set is the loco, and I only have my issues because I’ve seen what lego can do (nearly 15 years ago) with the Emerald Night and am holding them to the standard that they set! The proportions are soooo cartoonish. The details may be well fabricated, but when I turn my head to this on a shelf I’m going to think it’s a friend of Thomas the Tank and not the Orient Express. A lot of the positives you pointed out in the video I wholeheartedly agree on! But the proportions of the engine are just something I haven’t heard a justification on that I agree with

I have to say I agree on some points and respectfully disagree on others, I think the biggest appeal of voting for this set was a large, high detail locomotive based on a real one that could work as both a display piece and running around the standard L gauge track unlike the UCS Hogwarts Express from earlier this year. Something we haven't seen Lego do since the likes of the Emerald Night, Horizon Express or Maersk set, not even mentioning how it'd be nice to see different wheel arrangements for a change. While I have started to change my initial thoughts on the set and it does seem a little charming and quaint, it just doesn't _look_ like a $300 display set than it does a regular train set, or as many have pointed out an almost exact recolour of the smaller Hogwarts Express from the recent Hogsmead station set but with connecting rods and a few small changes (like the lack of a large firebox or wheel arches.) I can understand why they made some changes to the coaches so they handle tighter curves and I have to say they still look nice and retain their looks on par with the submission, however the locomotive just really doesn't fare as well. I think one of the saving grace elements of this literally could've been as simple as making it a European 4-6-2 instead of a British like 4-6-0, because we've never seen any other wheel arrangement from Lego since the Crocodile locomotive. Considering the loco was the biggest draw of this set for me, to say the drastic changes to this sets biggest appeal to me (and many other loco fans I've seen) are a let down would be quite an understatement. I was hoping this set to be more on par with the aforementioned Crocodile loco set, high in detail and based on the real prototypes but not so large it can't fit on L gauge track, however the result.. well, yeah.. not really fair in comparison is it? It is cute, sure, but that's not what I was expecting from this set, let alone one that costs the same amount as sets like the Ecto 1, BTTF Delorean or Starry Night ect. I've seen some suggest this change was made so it looks more like the locomotive on the cover of "Murder on the Orient Express" which while I do see, it's simultaneously the issue.. I voted for a big high detail French 231 4-6-2, not a cartoonish almost British like 4-6-0 from a book, and the fact that a majority of recent comments on the original Lego Ideas page are saying similar really says that I'm not the only one thinking this. I did hear this set has been delayed though, so I'm holding on to that small ammount of hope that perhaps we may get a slight alteration, even if it's a small redesign of the loco or a different wheel arrangement.

They actually made the coaches 8 studs wide. How can this not be a win?

People out here acting like they'd have gladly paid $700 for a lego set.

I think the final design is fine. I believe the coaches are very nice, and it’s super nice to see 2 coaches represented. I think the set is nice, and I think the simplicity point in the build for the average buyer is a good point I haven’t seen anyone bring up yet. I do however believe that they could have at least stayed a bit closer to the original design for the locomotive. Overall I think it’s a solid change from the original, but I do hope that the original designer approves, because it was clear how much passion was put into the original proposal

Could Lego have made a simpler version of the original design? Of course, they don't have any excuse there. That said, there were many different locomotives that pulled the Orient express, so it would be cool if it's still based off a real locomotive, even if it's different from the original.

There's no doubt this is an excellent looking set! There are 2 coaches and no station, an absolute win! New proper rods?! Another win! But it must be said that firstly, the use of last year's H.E wheels could at least be used on this and the funding of a new mould could be used to make a blind version of that wheel type. The other existing lego brand wheels can totally fit. Whilst many along with myself agree with lego seeing train fans as too niche, and this set IS good, it will forever be looked at as a set that got the engine wrong and many along with myself will not care for it (but for me it's more so it's £300 or so and I don't have that money to splash out). And yes we can mod it but it's about the fact we're being given something we didn't ask for. What does the designer think of this?! We HAVE to get his views on this!

My only qualm with the final set is the length of the locomotive, its just a little to short, but hey im not going to say no to a new train

I understand the concerns about the locomotive, but man those coaches are beautiful.

I don't care what anyone says about the locomotive. It's cute and I love it for that.

THIS SET IS EVEN WORSE THAN THE HOGWARTS EXPRESS

The target audience for this set is absolutly not the average adult, it's for enthusiasts, because it was voted by LEGO Fans to 10000 votes, not average adults, thus the target demographic is the people who voted for this set. And they did not vote for a recoloured 75955 as a engine. The wagons are nice and after all those years Lego finally understood that people what more than just one car.

For me im hopping they redesgin the engine with the delays happening with it. Over all everything else is spot on. Im also glad that lego is moving into 8 stud engines with moc Creator using 8 studs as standard. I think the future for lego vehicles in general is gonna be big (no pun intended)

I get the reasons why they have to change and simplify a fan model before turning into a commercial product. The designers managed to make a simple yet outstanding steam loco back in 2009 with EMERALD NIGHT and that set a standard. The Orient Express locomotive should have been the center piece but it looks like something they hastily came up with the few pieces they had left laying around. And yes, it might fit the tracks but it cannot be motorized.

The coaches look great. I’m not a fan of the engine but it is what it is. As for the mouldking stuff, I’ve had reasonable luck with their trains. Got some good runners out of those sets. The magic castle runs great, reasonable speed and decent pulling power with variable speed control. Both QJ’s I own also run nicely after modding the control system to include more adjustable speed control. Part of me wants to get the orient express from them to see if it’s good.

I agree! The coaches are beautifully done. Especially how it is an official licensed set by the Orient Express. The locomotive could be a little better. I feel like the boiler is a little too big for the type of locomotive you would see. Whilst I understand LEGO will never produce a set as detailed as us AFOL Train Builders, this seems like a great set. Probably a great chance for us AFOLs to modify it. Honestly speaking, the first time i saw the set, I was thoroughly upset (seeing how it deviated from the IDEAS design) but after a couple of days of looking at it and thinking from LEGO point of view, it just makes sense.

I voted for this because I wanted a display piece, not a childish representation of a locomotive

The Orient Express set that was leaked on October 11, 2023 looks like an amusement park train

When I saw it I thought “Blue steam train, sign me up!”

Great video, very thoughtful arguments. If it was just a matter of Lego making a generic nice-looking train, this set would be a slam dunk win for the average consumer. But this is not just any train, it’s a specific train, the Orient Express. Therefore, Lego had some duty to actually attempt to deliver something that actually looks like a prestige express engine. A 4-6-0 simply doesn’t fit the bill. (Yes I know that the OE brand relates to the carriages not the locomotive, my point still stands).

I would be interested in knowing what requirements, if any, the French state railway put on the Lego design.

It's really only the locomotive that just looks awful to me. It feels like it's been compressed in length and just looks weird. Sure we can modify sets but this would be a complete replacement to look ok next to the wonderful carriages and tender

Well, Abomination Express display model also had a track width of 7 studs, instead of 6. I found that to be a very unfortunate decision. At least these new waggons are 8 studs wide, and that is an improvement.

We are finnaly going to get new side rods

Not the first time Lego did not keep their promise. The set is a far cry from what we had expected, void of any prototype. Again, Lego is showing their disrespect for the brick railway modeller. A company ignoring their customer base and prefers to shower their competition with law suits will los in the long run.

I do think its a damn fine looking train, and as someone who doesn't own any lego trains this might end up being my first. However, I do wish they had managed to scale down the same engine from the proposal to make it fit the tracks as opposed to going with a completely different looking engine. Sure it can be modified, but that's always a bit of a hassle especially considering just how different the two engines look. Like I said, this one is by no means bad, I personally just find the other engine to be better looking and more authentic.

Lego needs to make new train wheel moulds eventually. If they can make an individual dual moulded head for every bloody simpsons character they can make brand new locomotive train wheels!

Great video, good to get this perspective from you and Glenn! 👌 Personally, I think if the loco had been in a different darker shade to the carriages, it may have helped, either Dark Green, maybe Olive, even Dark Red or similar... I also feel the proportions would have looked substantially better if the engine was 2 or 4 studs longer, it seems * stumpy * ... idk, the fundamentals of the design makes sense from a logical standpoint for R40 curves and switches, I love the carriages, I just wish the loco stood out a bit more - something that is still possible within Lego's strict stability guidelines! 😊👍

The designer achieved the "victory" to see his creation become a twisted shadow of what he designed and everybody liked.

although I do agree that LEGO is making a smart decision by making a working train, it would be nice to have one with more detail. Perhaps a LEGO scale E2?

Finally some 9L thin connecting rods!!!

You can still make a more detailed locomotive and still be easy to build, Lego can just add more details to the model as is that can fix it

I'm one of those average Lego fans that just wants to build a Lego train and I think this is gorgeous 😅

Personally, for me, it doesn't really matter that Lego changed the design from the source. Yes, the source material was beautiful and incredible, but I'm more interested in Lego just making a train set. Something other than the modern trains we get in the City Theme. As long as Lego makes a steam loco, I'll be happy. Even more so if it actually runs.

The coaches for the set are actually really well made, my only critique would be the blue colors being too bright. otherwise they look pretty solid. I think most of the hate is directed at the locomotive itself. While I do support Lego's decision to make the train compatible with their track instead of a shelf queen like the original model, they could have at least attempted to make it look like the original (Dark green color, smoke deflectors, etc.), this would make it resemble the SNCF 230.G Class 4-6-0 which, if I recall, also hauled the OE. The MouldKing version of the OE looks super sweet and I might buy that instead depending on the price.

Hopefully more LEGO Ideas train projects will become real sets

Its Henry in his blue paint from The Railway Series. "I wanted an Atlantic, and that ______ sent me this!" - Sir Topham Hatt

Lego was disrespectful for destroying what the guy had made and making a toy like set out of it.

This is the first Lego train in ages I’ve even considered buying. I think it’s super sexy in the blue and gold. The loco is a little short in my opinion but I’ll just build it a little bigger. Gonna pick this up when it’s also double points weekend.

When I look at trains now, they must meet three things for me to consider purchase, those being shelf quality, complication, and interest. No model train actually meets all three except for Lego City trains.

Just came across this video from Google when searching for "Lego Orient Express release date" as the leaks had suggested it was due to be a November release. I clicked on the video as I was surprised that the set would even need a 'defence'. It's very likely that I'll be buying this set. It'll be my first Lego train (although I did have a monorail set as a kid and my kids now have a Duplo train). I'll be buying the set because I think it looks fantastic. It'll largely be sitting on a shelf but I love the fact that it can run too and I would have been disappointed if it couldn't. Just thought I'd chime in as someone that is not a Lego trains fan and isn't a usual viewer of the channel. :)

Still Wished they approved the VIA Rail lego set

The cars are nice. But I think they failed on the locomotive. I understand the idea version can’t run, but a better idea is to make a version of the idea version locomotive and make it able to work. It will be a down grade yeah, but it will look better than we got. Or they could find another engine that pulled the Orient Express (which is there a ton of them) and do that instead.

Thanks for this more nuanced discussion! I agree that the most important consideration was that it actually run on regular LEGO track, rather than sit still as a dust-collecting display piece. However, I do kind of wish the engine looked more like the Emerald Night.

Have to disagree to a point! The engine is lazy. They could've made something that at least looked more interesting ala Emerald Knight. I should point out that this is an offically licenced Orient Express Product as stated in the leak, so they obviously have a contract with Bellmond hotels who operate the VSOE, which makes it even more odd that it looks nothing like the real thing bar some the superficial (ie the colour, and even then, it's not a dark enough shade of blue!). The coaches are far too generic European now. Why they've used those doors IDK! Tow of them, yeah good, the rest of it, really not sold! And let's be honest when it comes to sales, how many regular joes are actually going to buy this set, especially for what they're charging for it! Only the die hard train enthusiasts and serious builders would've bought this set anyway

I remember the magic I felt walking into the Lego store on Thanksgiving 2009 and seeing the Emerald Night among others like the Grand Carousel and Cafe Corner. I picked up an EN without second thought. 14 years later and staring unsatisfied at my Crocodile, I'm still waiting for a set to top it. -Edit: Lego Trains were never a niche. They're synonymous with the company; being there nearly since the beginning. As much as Lego wants it to be a niche, it's one of the largest non-Star Wars markets and definitely the most neglected side of the community.

This set really looks nice. I would love to have a set like this run around a Christmas tree. I totally agree with the decision to make this runnable. I think I would buy this set over the original.

It is a really nice model. There are just two things that I wish would have been different. The first being that they stuck with the original train design, but modified it so that it could run on standard tracks. The second would be making the engine they did make slightly bigger to fit the price tag of the model. I would’ve liked to have an engine that could easily stand alone as an 80 to 100 dollar set.

Just looking at the loco I can't see how stretching it by 4-5 tiles to add a pair of trailing wheels would significantly increase the part count, but it would certainly make it look a while lot nicer and more interesting! As would changing the color to dark green (or possibly red/brown? Haven't done any research into what colors OE locos usually were). But I have to say those carriages look gorgeous - I'd frankly consider buying the set _without_ the loco just for those!

I gotta say, this must really suck for the people who backed this. It's a completely different Train! But, for me if this is an affordable price. I might actually get this. I was getting back, or, thinking of getting back into model railroading, but it was too expensive, and takes up room. A LEGO train is perfect! It's large yeah, but I can disassemble it. It's still a fine looking train. I will have my eyes open for it indeed.

I honestly think the leaked design is good. The loco is kinda cute, and also there's two coaches and several minifigures. Plus, it runs! If Lego listens to the complainers and chanhes the set from what they intended to show us i will be pretty mad, i have been waiting for something like this for *AGES.*

I'm fine with the color change, love the addition of the second car, and fully support any changes to make the set workable for standard lego track. I really just wish they made the engine an inch or so longer. Also, will they please just start selling individual train cars!!

If I may, I'm in the camp where I basically think that the engine could use a touch-up or two but otherwise the set looks good.

Supposedly another reason for the change of the model was by the Orient express company themselves apparently they wanted it to look more how they envision it, so that might be another reason why it was changed.

I think Locomotive is definitly lazy. There is so many mocs out there with giant wheels and they can run the R40 curves easily and most of these designs are not complicated at all, that's not an excuse.

I'm gonna be honest. The original Orient Express concept looked way better. And I hate to phrase it in this way, but it looked more mature. It used more muted colors and more detailed building techniques. It looks like a collectors item. Like something somebody who makes model trains would want. The leaked image, however, looks like a children's toy. It uses vibrant colors, rounded edges, and much less detail. It abandoned the clerestory roof from the original design, which created a very unique profile and added more interest to what is otherwise just a box with wheels. I really just don't see why they couldn't have stuck functioning wheels on the original design and called it a day. In the end the anger surrounding this is because this is a serious bait-and-switch. The people who voted for this set _expected_ something that would match the visuals of the original design and _if_ this leaked image is to be trusted then what those people are set to receive is a glorified Thomas the Tank Engine toy.

I know lots of people are unhappy about the orient Express train itself however, from what I understand (And I am only really knowable on British Locomotives.) the one included seams to have distinct hints of Finnish steam engines, whilst remaining somewhat generic meaning that it could, in theory represent any engine that would pull the express in any amount of countries.

Why the heck did they completely change it into something entirely different?

You made an excellent video and I agree with you, but I wouldn't mind paying a bit more for a better steam engine. LEGO showed us that it can do better with trains with their own parts (I'm talking about the emerald night and the crocodile). I also got a bit disappointed with the fact that it's branded with the modern Orient Express and not with the CIWL like the original set but even I admit that's a bit too much 😅. Btw that tender is perfect!

And now they announced the set is a display piece and too heavy to be powered, brilliant 😂😂😂

I can understand people are disappointed after voting for something specific, and the fact the set is not a realistic representation but as a young adult that just got back into LEGO I much prefer the final result, It just looks a lot more fun to build and the amount of carriages is really nice. Interesting color bricks, new pieces and the fact it's not just a display piece but can drive too is really selling it for me, I will definitely be picking this set up when it drops

6:55 What was the one set from 25 years ago whose special pieces nearly ruined the company??

Hear me out: a LGO UCS set centered on the Great Locomotive Chase. It would be a set with a 4-4-0 “General,” a 4-4-0 “Texas,” and minifigs representing James J. Andrews and Conductor William Fuller. If they’re worried about it steering to close to real life history, they could always make it based off of the 1956 Disney Classic film (the film everyone forgot existed).

would have been an opportunity to introduce larger drivers since LEGO is going all in on adult sets.

This set is garbage. It is the easiest stance in the world to defend the establishment position. Shilling like this is just embarrassing. How dare people expect Lego to develop new wheels.

I like trains, but I'm far from a train nerd, I think this set is created for people like me and I love it.

A slight rebuttal to the complexity arguement of steam train models: Lego has shown that in their adult oriented sets, they are more than comfortable using complex building techniques. Why would they be comfortable selling hundereds of technic sets with advanced, interlocking mechanical systems that turn wheels, change gear ratios, or activate other functions, but would be scared of a few connecting rods and mechanical details on the side of a locomotive?

I'm certainly keen to get this set! Maybe 2 If I can afford it. It's great to see a nice simple steam engine set with 2 coaches from Lego

My argument is that while yes, the average lego consumer may not want to build a moc level loco. But if that's the case, then just like how they have ucs sets and regular sets, create something intricate and detailed for those who care and enjoy to go the extra mile. At the very least they could just give the train needs better parts to utilize for mocs

There are some very good arguments here and I think you definitely made a very good point, detail nerds are not the target audience here. At the same time, I do think the kit would have been greatly improved if they had just made the loco a little bit longer so it seemed more proportional to the carriages. I mean, it looks a bit cartoonish, as another commenter said. If Lego had just bulked it out a little more so it at least maybe had the same wheel layout as the original, then I don't think people have complained anywhere near as much. Great video! I approve.

It's going to be my Christmas tree locomotive.

its still a 4-6-0 instead of a 4-6-2, making it a completely different locomotive. im willing to overlook the lack of detail as long as they can get the wheel count right

I love this ten wheeler,it ain't the godlike like the french pacific but it has more playability and it makes the set slightly more affordable

There is no defense. The locomotive design is disappointing at best and really more like a completely reprehensible spit in the face and 'f--- you' to the people who have been waiting over a decade for another proper steam locomotive. This was our best chance in the entire time we have waited, and it had real promise. I don't care how nice the coaches look - they're beautiful coaches - but the locomotive should have been AT LEAST to the standard of the Emerald Night or Crocodile, at the very very least. There is no excuse anymore. After sets like Concorde and Titanic, I'm no longer willing to accept """""playability"""" as an excuse. It's not an excuse. They've shown they're capable of making a well-proportioned steam locomotive that runs and works 15 goddamn years ago, it should not be this hard for them to do it again, and they should not be as apprehensive to doing it again. And now, with the Mould King set coming out which is exactly what the Lego set should have been, I'm just not accepting any reasoning anymore. The big Hogwarts Express was a spit in the face, and this is an even bigger one. Case closed.

To be honest I like this even though it's changed mainly because it can actually move and doesn't look half bad

After I watching this video I totally agree with everything you had said. Like I was a little disappointed when I saw it, but I honestly don't care cause at least we have the set now.

The loco is a bit of a let down, but the coaches are awesome. And I’m really glad it’ll run on L-gauge.

I agree that it should be in-scale with other Lego trains. The issue is how far of a departure this is from the locomotive. Lego could’ve designed something more in line with the original submission in this scale that pays more respect to the original designer. The biggest issue, however, is how glaringly off the proportions of this locomotive are. It’s too short and stubby. The Emerald Night’s proportions were spot-on, and even though it came out 10+ years ago and has one less car, it cost about a quarter of the price that this one does. I just don’t know how to rectify this costing almost $400 with such a poorly-designed locomotive. If they’d at least gotten that part right, I could forgive everything else. Seriously a miss from Lego, honestly.

The fact it's called the Orient express is the issue. It's like selling a Lego Bugatti then opening it and seeing it's a ford instead. It's not the same vehicle if they sold this separately as it's own thing I think fans could be a lot happier.

The only thing I care about is the fact we might actually be getting a Lego steam train for once lol

1:30 thumbs up if you're a fan of the show

I will admit, at first i felt super betrayed by lego for making such a huge change to the original idea. i was extremely excited to get such a cool detailed lego train set that the original just straight up spoiled my expectations. So the moment i saw the leak, i was devastated to say the least. compared to the fan design, the official design looked puny and uninteresting. but looking back at the leaked photos now, i'm 100% down for this set. as a train enthusiast and a huge lego fan, this is still a HUGE win and i'm super excited for it all over again

I like both versions and will be getting one for my collection

I can imagine buying two of these and building a caboose for the end!! That would be sweet! Now I just need the $$$$! 😮

Not only LEGO train fans, but fans of the Orient Express itself as well. I went in 2022 to the NMBS museum in Brussels as there was also an expo on the Orient express and I do have the movie and the book Murder on the Orient express. Now regarding the train itself, I don't operate trains nor am I planning to. So static and therefor the original design is fine by me. The '1 million dollar' question is, since the original design and the final design by LEGO differ so much that there is no resemblance whatsoever, can the original designer do something with the original design?

You've definitely changed my mind I wasn't very happy as I loved the idea but after the said points in the video I can get onboard....pun intended

Only problem i have with this set is that the train is small. if train had 4-6-2 (or -4) so its a little longer and had a bit bigger tender I may would've bought it

It’s unfortunate, been saving since it was announced to pick it up when it comes out, but the new design is just not at all what I wanted, guess I’ll just keep saving and maybe pick up that lord of the rings set before it leaves circulation

it would be awesome if someone were to build the origenal idea set

check out mould king set 12025 to see what lego could have done, but didnt even try.

Very good points, excited to see the final product come out

Truth to tell I was first horrified by the locomotive, but the more I see it and read about it, i now really looking forward for it. Gonna buy 2 of it. Color could be a bit darker.

Honestly this is good as although you get more detail from a shelf queen a functional model makes it more fun as I've seen other brands like nifelez make Realistic Lego display train models but their still in the size of any other Lego train making a great model and this is a step Lego could have or should have took as display models don't need to be massively enormous as also Lego sets like the leaked one should take a step up that being about the locomotive being sold only and rolling stock sold separately so its not a hole to your credit card as display models don't need to be big and who cares if the leaked model isn't the same as the real life engine as it works as a MOC or a mine own creation

Lego, just release a train subtheme again, my wallet will cry if you do

orient express's steam locomotive is disappointed. this is steam locomotive looks like GWR olton hall.

I just want 4 or so of the coaches for a polar express

I Actually love the finally design it looks so good