Although this channel's content is a lot of gardening tips, it's also great to see more of the philosophy behind this project peek thorugh, as it has been doing more frequently the last few months. The "why" always informs the "how". These are important issues, and I'm glad to see you adress them in an apropriate and accessable way.
Thank you for that encouraging comment. The “why” always informs the “how” is an interesting way of putting it, thanks. For me the “why” always seems to be the interesting part of it all.
Yes, but Bruce is not an ideologue and that is a great part of the value of the videos. He's not here to brow beat us, which is refreshing. Science first.
Another option that is probably more feasible in an urban environment is used coffee grounds from coffee shops. I'll regularly grab 20-50 lbs of used coffee grounds from Starbucks. I'll add it to my compost (awesome at heating it up to finish it) or mix into my mulch. It's 2-.5-.5 npk. It's pretty much neutral pH since most of the acidity and caffeine was leached out into the coffee. Best part is that it's free and normally would be thrown out.
@@KerriEverlasting you have to do that with any higher nitrogen mulch. I accidentally did that with grass clippings also. Basically, it caused the stem to rot and kill the plant. That's why I mix it into the mulch and keep about an inch space from the plant.
How did you go about approaching the coffee shop? I want to do this, but the way I'm imagining it (at break neck speed because they always seem in such a hurry in those places): "next please" "double espresso" "next please" "two lattes please" "next please" "er can I have your used coffee grounds please" [puzzled baristo isn't getting through the long queue any longer]
@@familyfruit9833 I called the Starbucks and asked if they had used coffee grounds I can have. Others in my area do the same thing so they were ok with it. I've tried some other places and usually have no problem. I've had to explain it a couple times. Usually if you call in advance you can then tell someone behind the bar that you called in for the used coffee grounds. They're usually happy to let you take it because they don't have to haul it all the way to the dumpster. It's always nice to drop a tip into the tip jar also, or buy something (I don't drink coffee myself, but one coffee shop has a killer peanut butter brownie I'll get if I'm feeling naughty)
A suggestion: See if you can get the spent grains from any local breweries. It's quite easy to get a constant supply via brewery, and usually they're very glad to have someone take it off their hands. Spent grains from the brewing process would be work a lot like the rolled oats in application.
Your commentary on all sides of the issue is far and away the most round and well considered of any gardener I have encountered in real life or on the internet. I also greatly appreciate the depth and breadth of your research and that you share the results with us all. You are one of my RU-vid heroes! Please keep up your wonderful and inspiring work.
I'm glad you mentioned humanure and urine . As long as we fertilize the oceans and then complain about algae growth on our favorite beaches we will have to be completely reliant on industrial fertilizers. The instilled fear of our excrements is another narrative that keeps us reliant on fossil fuel. I like the way you are thinking. Most people would not realize that the organic manure they are using in their garden was originally also grown with industrial fertilizer. Well done video!
most people's shit is just that. Tainted with antibiotics, hormones(birth control), and an dangerous amount of harmful bacteria from consuming garbage food.
@@rulerofthelight So by using animal manures we assume that these animals never get fed tons of antibiotics and growth hormones? Pigs also never eat any restaurant scraps? We also believe that these antibiotics and hormones, which are based on natural products can not be broken down by soil and compost microbes? Well, I don't believe such narratives, sorry if you do.
@@ouroldtruck9380 Well stated. While I don't use our composted humanure for vegetables, I do use it for trees and large feed area prep. When done right, thermophillic bacteria and friends, kill off all pathogens + there is time and other processes too. The reason I don't use it for our own food is simply because I don't have time and finances to test frequently and I am not certain if the composting process completed in my planned time frames. Also, when we handle our own dry toilet systems, we know what goes in, don't we ;)
@@ouroldtruck9380 If you don't know what's in the shit, your roĺlng the dice no matter what animal it's from. an example would be horse manure that contains persistent herbicide from the hay they ate. Sure microbes might brake it down eventually but some last in the soil up to 3 years.
I do find it interesting that we se some manure as 'good' and even desirable, but the stuff we produce is 'bad' and we need to shield ourselves form it at all cost, and treat it as a toxic substance. There are very valid reasons why we have made this distinction, mainly of course prevention of some fairly nasty diseases. But we can easily develop sensible systems to manage all of that, we don't need to pump it away. But the challenge is social and cultural, not so much in practical application.
I know I'm late, but you really have given me a lot of insight on replenishing the nitrogen into my soil. I am lucky and have the ability to move my main garden every year for a cover crop. But other small gardens in my property don't have that luxury.
@@REDGardens I know from brewing beer that yeast increases the nutritional value of the ingredients. Maybe that and mineralization happens with a fermented weed tea/brew.
You always drop a new video related to my current concerns. I expanded my chickens to 10 hens for the free manure. Been debating what other amendments I might want. You have helped more of us than you could eve know. You rock!
Just about fell off my chair. Here in Oregon I sometimes use an almost identical pelleted chicken manure product. I buy 12 kg bags for about $4, or 3 euros per bag. Hard to imagine they charge you so much for it. It works great, I use a bag per 200 square foot bed in addition to my compost, I think it's great for the plants. I've now connected with a local farmer who raises chickens for eggs, I get a pickup load of pure chicken manure, about 1.5 tons, for $40 loaded in my truck. Regarding hay, keep an eye out for "spoiled" hay, I can get hay that's gotten rained on pretty much for hauling it away as horses can't eat it due to health concerns. Living in a very rural area does have some advantages.
I can't help think that here in the US, generally speaking, if we're getting N nutrients from an agricultural source (chicken manure, fish pond sludge, pig manure, feather meal, etc) you're getting a subsidy by virtue of corn and soybean's exceptional ability to convert anhydrous ammonia into food. Those cheap food sources mean more abundant livestock/cost of feed, and therefore cheaper livestock by-products. So even if we're using non-fossil nitrogen sources, that nitrogen, and it's low cost end up being due to the availability of ammonia from fossil fuels on the very front end.
Yeah, the difference in prices around the world is quite significant. Here in Ireland, importing from elsewhere adds to the costs, and with such a small and marginal market for the stuff, there isn't the same kind of economies of scale. I could get nitrogen a lot cheaper from a variety of sources, but because I have chosen to live without a car/truck, definitely limits a few cheaper options. But then all the money I don't spend of the truck, insurance, taxes and gas means I have a bit more cash to spend on getting things delivered, so possibly cheaper in the end. 😉
@@thehumblefactory Very good point, especially when you consider that a lot of the stuff is waste material that would otherwise cost money to dispose of.
I put clover surrounding all my beds. It works great bring in pollinators and I use it as green manure when it gets overgrown. Bonus is acting as snake habitat to control field mice. I haven't lost a single crop to mice so far. Usually it's 20-30 percent loss.
I'm often worried about bringing too much compost into my growing spaces - we produce literally tons of it by collecting our NYC neighbors' food scraps and fall leaves - but then I watch your channel...
Complex questions and even more interesting answers. As new gardeners, this makes our heads spin, but it is enjoyable to think about. Comments are excellent as well Cheers from Victoria Canada
Thanks, and glad to hear it wasn’t too inaccessible, but still provided things to be junk about! That is just about where I want to position my videos, at least relating to new gardeners.
One of the biggest problems I have with nitrogen fixing plants is knowing how much of that fixing is done in the roots and how many of it is done above the ground. Here in Portugal, lupine is the most common nitrogen fixing plant. I've now been cutting them down, because I need the space they're in to grow grass for my chickens, and throwing the greens into my compost pile. Not sure this is the best approach, but it is the one I've resorted to.
I always try to add some liquid human fertiliser to the compost when I have the need and I'm out in the garden. Then balance it with plenty of wood chips or other less nutrient dense matter.
Fallen leaves piled pretty thick for mulch and diluted urine works like a champ for plants. I add alfalfa pellets and bone to root crops also. Most everything you need is available from nature. The alfalfa could be grown if I had enough space. But seeing as they're just 20 dollars for a 50 pound bag it's cheaper to just buy them. I also go into the forest and gather rotten wood from fallen trees. It looks like the decomposed wood chips you used to grow potatoes. It turns red and is very moist and soft. I added about an inch layer over one of my gardens. Then put alfalfa pellets. Then put cardboard, then compost, then about 6 to 8 inches of leaves. I will add more leaves this spring after everything is planted and growing well. Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I don't have the spare time to do all the experiments you do. So it's nice to just learn from other's experiences.
Remember composting and rotting release much of the nitrogen and is lost to the air or washed off. I would say bringing all the plant materials are wasted in the area to the farm is better, Another thing that most people dont know is all plants have symbiotic microorganisms that fix nitrogen. not as efficient as nodule-forming plants like pulses but still they do.
It's always about context. If you use green house and have egg production ,the way to maximize return would be to overwinter the chickens in the greenhouse . The soil would be purged of pests and enriched for the following growing season.
I have bene thinking of trying that. Feed the hens with imported grain/feed/scraps and some of the nitrogen goes into the birds and eggs, and some of it will end up in the soil. But if i didn't want to manage the birds, there are a lot easier ways to get fertility int the soil.
Remember that the old growth forests don't buy the nitrogen that they need.We need to copy the way Mother Nature uses micro organisms to make soils fertile and alive.The work of Elaine Ingham follows this path.I really enjoy the way you examine different aspects of growing in detail.Thankyou.
There are a lot of possibilities, and I am interested in exploring Elain's work a lot more. But I am not sure that the forest is a good example, as complex ecosystems like that are great at recycling nutrients. In most vegetable growing, it is a one way extractive system, especially if you give away or sell some of the food. Generally, it seems, the rate of exporting, exceeds the rate that additional materials can be produced within the soil.
About the best talk on fertility I have viewed, ever. Not sure how I missed this first time out, but great to view it at last. So much said here resonates with me. I am using my own urine to feed my grass, which is cut and used in my compost. I am now playing around with using urine on Green manure, particularly the weaker stem types that can be smothered rather than cut or dug in; Alfalfa and Winter Tares are examples.
Its not for everyone buy you certainly should consider getting your own chickens. Your are already buying their poop. You are already buying feed(oats) and bedding (hay). Everything the compost pile eats, they can eat. With your help, they will create a nutrient dense compost very quickly. You don't even need to eat the eggs, if you don't want to, it's their poop that's the best part!
I did have chickens for awhile, workmen on the compost in the other garden, then a fox had other ideas, and I haven't replaced them. I liked the eggs, but didn't like the extra responsibility and tasks, though I will probably get some more.
I came back to watch this video a second time. It really gets to he heart of what it means to grow sustainably. All the sources of nitrogen are ultimately from plants. Your calculation of needing half the available growing season/ space to provide nitrogen for the other half made me think. perennial
@@REDGardens I'm thinking about growing entire beds of comfrey for "Mobile Green Manure". Apparently that's what they call it when it's not grown in the same field it fertilizes. Growing Fava bean outdoors overwinter to feed greenhouse tomatoes is an an example of how it can prioritize the most valuable growing space. The oats and such you are trialing as fertilizer are also examples. Growing Azolla fern might be the most efficient form of this.
You are doing the work of animals like cow and goat. This is their work to eat greens and provide manure which can be used after heat composting (because of weed seed).
@@srjkpndt Perhaps, but I don't want to keep animals like that, and it isn't really possible in the context I am in (which is the same with many people)
In that case you can use the help of cowboy who can provide you with the cow manure. Problem solved and for leafy vegetables, goat manure is more suitable
Dear Bruce, thank for your clear enumeration of all the possibilities to get Nitrogen back into the soil. It shows your systematic way of working to find answers and this is why I think your channel is the most recommended for any who wants to go into the details of growing food. I was starting to wonder whether you were going to mention the easiest, and, to me, the most obvious solution. You did at last: the closed loop. Use your own excrement. It is not only about Nitrogen, it is also about phosphate wich is being mined for the sake of conventional agriculture and is not an infinite resource either (we are actually close to start scraping the bottom of the barrel there) To all readers here: please drop the squeamishness about it. It's too important. For those who like to read more on this: there are not too many books. But look up "humanure". You'll find Joe Jenkins's work from many years ago. To me a very good read. Back to Bruce: thank you for all the great content through all the years. I have been on and off with the patron thing a few times during and will keep doing so, happy to support your work, but I'm also waiting for the book you surely should write! Greetings Peter
Thanks Peter, for that supportive comment and your continued support of this channel and my work. That book has been started, barely, though I don’t know when I am going to find the time to write it. Use of urine is very important, and I only included a brief mention of it in this video as the video was already too long, and I wanted to do another video about it. Also I don’t have a lot of experience. I have used urine a bit, but not in a systematic alway that would allow me to say anything about its impact. So will wait for that, as I generally only talk about things I have enough experience with.
@@REDGardens Looking forward to the book. My experience with use of urine is not greater than putting it on the compost. I did once fertilize the lawn with diluted urine and the difference was very clear: thicker, taller dark green grass. Have read the number that one persons urine is enough to fertilize about 1000 m2 lawn through the season (I believe you had to start collecting through the winter as well). Here in Sweden the municipality helped me with advice and gave a paper with fairly easy explanation how to go about without being connected to a sewer or not having a tank that needs to be emptied on a regular basis: outhouse, thick cardboard in the bottom, good layer woodchips on that, after doing your business let it rest for minimum 6 months at minimum 10 Celsius (under cover so nothing can leach). After given time 99% of the patogens have disappeared and you can empty the rest and let i further decompose as regular compost. Then all you would need are two outhouse or, a bit more practical, a small enough collector that you can exchange when it starts getting full.
I don't know how available they are in the EU, but I use alfalfa pellets exclusively for fertilizing my garden (other than compost). 2-1-2 NPK, cheap in bulk, and supposedly has growth hormones that contribute to plant growth (I don't know about that, but it sure does an excellent job)
I have had a look for them here in Ireland, but have only found small supplies in niche horse supply shops. It sounds like they can be quite useful. Interesting to know that you have had good success with them.
@@Qopzeep honestly, I've never measured, just side dress or toss a handful in planting holes. Quick math says it would be about .25 kg/sq meter for a standard fertilization schedule
@@REDGardens wasn't sure, thought that might be the case. Probably not hot enough to support a substantial alfalfa industry. They're quite cheap here in Montana (although, like everything, more expensive of late).
I have come to almost view N as being overrated. I do cover cropping/green manure lazily. For a subsistence level of N I find I personally make more than I need personally in the form of Urine! Obviously for a massive plot its not enough. But I have settled on 1 days worth of 'yellow gold' is about 1 square meter for a full growing season.
There’s indeed an astonishing amount of N in urine. A healthy human pees out 12-20 g of urea per day, which is about 6-10 g of the element. Divide that amount with the normal daily urine output ranging from 800-2000 mL, that’s actually quite concentrated. [Please DO NOT learn about what a "nitre pit" is.]
While researching composting toilets I learned that 1 year of urine from 1 person requires 40 m2 of land to disperse the urine across in order to stay within legal limits of N (Sweden, EU). That's for the Compostera toilet, which separates liquid from solid "waste" (what a misnomer!). When you also consider the potential of solid humanure, we could be pretty much self-sufficient in terms of fertilizers. It's just a question of making it safe to use in food production. (1 year's production of solid humanure requires 10 m2 per person.)
For a smaller plot, and when you are not feeding other people who might be uncomfortable with this form of fertility 😉, urine can be a geed source of nitrogen. I suspect your approximation of one day per m2 is fairly close to what I have been working with.
@@ximono I also think it is possible to be self-sufficient with urine and humanure, depending on the area of production, or more importantly the portion of your own food that you are trying to grow. If we still import meat and grains, then there will likely be enough Nitrogen inputs to grow your veg (assuming that you are doing it all carefully). But the greater proportion of your diet that comes from your vegetable patch, the more likely losses in the system (through rain and denitrification) will build up to limit the productivity of the garden.
Have you thought about keeping rabbits? You could keep them in hutches and collect the manure in trays and feed veggies that might not be market quality to off-set the price of feed. People are crazy, lately.
Lots to think about here , hopefully now that things are opening up again , the city will provide compost like they used to do before Covid. We have had to make do with what we could produce ourselves ( which we did ok , but not enough ) so we would make use of the free compost when we could get it. Your compost pile may be bigger than my gardens by the way.
I've grown peas in almost pure biochar, after it was somewhat usable for other plants when it at first wouldn't (because biochar has very little N) One approach you might find useful is to plant N-fixing plants when planting others, especially root plants like potatoes. When the potatoes are up, I begin slashing the peas (eating the greens while soft), and eventually slash all, or leave a few which either matures well, or is choked by the potatoes. I still need to try out with more control groups, but it certainly doesn't seem to affect the potatoes negatively, but I can't say for certain if the N in the slashed pea-roots are made available for the potatoes (let alone other plants which typically need the peas removed sooner) But at the very least, you should be able to grow a appreciable amount of green manure. The N from such slash is quite noticeable when compost tests are done with very N poor substrate (which most tests I've done have been biochar, and endemic soils only viable to few rugged wild plants)
So... Basically from what I'm hearing is that what your doing isn't exactly sustainable. Here's some tips I can think of. 1. Hit up some coffee houses for their left over grounds. 2. Chickens, get some. 3. Let the chickens into the compost bin. 4. I noticed a bunch of large chunks in your compost pile. I recommend a 3 stage compost pile. A. Sorting pile B. A sorted pile for big chunks. C. The ready to rock and roll pile where you've run the chunks through a grinder and it's ready to go into the beds. 5. Worms get some. Throw them into your compost and cover them up really well. Worms will not only break everything down but provide good protein for the chickens. Keep a a small bin for worm breeding. 6. Use a soak barrel or "compost tea" beans and noodles are great to cook and feed to chickens dump the remaining liquid into the soak barrel once you get a few gallons in there add a cup of sugar and whatever plant matter / liquid (no fats or oils) about a week before you plan to dump it throw in about 6 packets of yeast or your mushroom colony of choice. Stir it up and let it do it's thing for a week and dump in where you need it. You should notice in a few weeks a nice fungal root system. this root system acts as a resource distribution system so don't let it dry out for long periods. Now all you need is to keep the plants and ground watered and moist. Seems like a lot of work but if done right your work load will consist of turning on the water for 15 - 30 minutes a day while you sit back and enjoy a coffee.
I manage about 12 different growing spaces, and in each one I use a different method for managing the fertility, so a lot of variety there. Some are more sustainable than others, depending on how you define sustainable. I had chickens a few years ago, mainly for one of the spaces, doing similar to what you mention, but then the fox had different ideas. Might get some more chickens this year.
@@REDGardens as far as chickens go you can cage them up if you have fox problems the entire "free range" thing is a lie so don't feel like you have to let them roam. Make sure when you build the coop and run that you bury about 4 - 6 inches of the chicken wire into the ground. This will keep the foxes from digging into the coop when your sleeping and stuff. We have hawks and sizable snakes over here that will kill everything in a pen just for fun so I know the struggle. The rule of thumb we use is that if the snake is small enough to fit through chicken wire the chickens can probably eat it. Occasionally I've used a garden hoe to get the bigger ones. Anyways I hope your ventures pan out and everything works out well. The sustainability I mention is keeping things relatively labor free. Maybe one day I'll do a video on it or something and link it over for some insight.
Have you considered growing comfrey? It's a beast at gathering nitrogen. Just grow a big patch of it and use it for mulch. It's very easy to grow and super effective at accumulating nutrients from deep subsoil.
here in America many people have been using alfalfa pellets (live stock feed) as it is relatively cheep and high in nitrogen and also is a slow release form.
Nitrogen is important however matter of all living organizm is carbon. So do not forget about it. I and others home growers spotted that if you first use carbon into soli like in Poland CARBOHUMIC and then like 2 weeks later nitrogen (it could be manure or fertilizer) you will see huge results. With regards to bushes or threes I have 400% results years after year. Best from Poland 🇵🇱
excellent points raised. maybe one day we could develop a formula that incorporates the labor cost, nutrient availability rate, crop value and risk to crop by possible contaminants etc. i used to do these (organic) things and then realized that i was working hard and many hours, and never counting this as a cost, that it is. when it all takes up most of your time, which is part of your life lived, it's a high price to pay and pretend it was free.
I use urine to excellerate my compost. I cover my garden with a thick layer of hay in off season and spray urine on top multiple times. By spring very little hay left.
When I lived in Oshawa, I had a small pond (about 150 gallons) stocked with small fish. I used to water the garden from that for extra nitrogen, and when I rinsed out the filter I would dump that on the garden to, that made the plants jump. You'd see the difference over night. I know that scaling up a fish pond as a nitrogen source for your size of operation would be daunting, (I had enough birds and racoons eating the fish), but it's doable for a backyard garden.
@@REDGardens After a while the fish will be eating the algae, so they only need a little bit of food. I'm not sure if you'd be better off composting that food you give the fish but it is definitely immediately available.
I have heard of some trials with Azolla in the Netherlands. It is an aquatic fern which is able to bind nitrogen from the air and phosphor from water. And it grows really fast. In the trials in the Netherlands it would be added to animal food to reduce the amount of traditional animal food. Link to the video (in Dutch): ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-HKYOt58OXZc.html
i collect my own urine, but i rarely add anything to the soil behinds hay and locally made compost (not much) urine mostly used for corn, but at one point i put it in the water tank for it to get dilluted in drip irigation, but it caused cloggings and i also used the algae growing in the water tank as fertilizer
@@REDGardens only 500m2 but we had 6 palm trees and a dozen of fruit trees and 20m2 of garden beds and still have a 60m2 surface left empty (mostly used to dry pruned palm and fruit branches before charing them in a fire pit )
I couldn't help but wonder if using rolled oats might attract rats. I don't have rats where I live, but I know you have a problem with them. I don't know if rats eat rolled oats, but they seem to eat anything if they are hungry enough. This is the first gardening video I watched this year. Some of your videos make my head spin, they have so much information in them. This is one of them. But I did learn about some sources of N that I wasn't really aware of, and I might investigate if they are available in my area.
Yes, the rolled oats could attract rats and other scavengers, and I expect the seed meal will too, something that I am keeping an eye out for. Sorry abut the head spin, I do try to pack in a lot, partially because there is soo much to say on these topics, but also because I know that people can re-watch sections if necessary.
you red can do this in real time 28 days take 2 big pots of soil , 1 with massive amounts of your nitrogen fertilizer (chicken pellets) and plant a bunch of radish.. then in another pot use depleted soil from say a potato patch..in 30 days you will know whats going on , and then just plant a few radish seeds in random places after and they will tell you whats going on after a while you will just see it i 2 weeks ..i am guessing
🤤this why I love this channel... share knowledge that benefits whole world.. although I only can give per view to this video, but personally, I think this video can get higher price.. thank you.
I leave them to grow for three to five years, as long as the main crop can grow before it needs to be divided, so as an example, I harvest the earth pea crop in my rhubarb bed once every five years when I lift and divide the rhubarb. The plants keep growing untill the first hard frost burns them. I just leave the tops on the bed and they get buried by compost in early June.
Ill be honest i dont mind being judged for this one but in my opinion if what i ate came from the ground I've no issues putting it back in the ground after im done proccessing it so to speak haha. As long as the method is sanitary of course. No one wants to point out several manky containers in your back garden only to be met with "um actually its long term Nitrogen storage" as a reply
That is an option. I had hens before, as part of a compost system, and it turned out I wasn't putting in enough effort to prevent the fox from getting in.
You should pick up some free coffee grounds from your local Starbucks Coffee shop to use as a free source of nitrogen. I picked up close to 500 pounds of coffee grounds last fall to add to my compost bins. I picked up 50 to 100 pounds 2 or 3 times per week. I still have approximately 100 pounds of coffee grounds that I have not used yet. I am thinking about simply putting the coffee grounds directly on my soil this Spring. I know that it is better to compost them in with other materials ahead of time, but sprinkling a little bit on top of the soil probably won't hurt and will hopefully help the soil.
This is a great video. I wonder if it might be featured more in RU-vid searches / recommendations and more RU-vid users that don't know your channel (yet) would decide to "invest" the time to watch it if the title would be more descriptive.
A great way to improve the general nitrogen levels of a field is to plant an Elaeagnus umbellata (aka Autumn Olive) hedge or windbreak. It can apparently fix up to 240kg of N/ha/year and produces masses of small edible berries in the autumn, and can be coppiced or pollarded on a 3-5yr rotation for firewood. It propagates easily from hardwood cuttings.
@@REDGardens It is not an invasive species in Ireland, probably because the seeds require both warm and cold stratification to germinate, neither of which it is likely to get in the Irish climate.
Another really interesting and thought-provoking video, thank you Bruce. Sometimes closing the loop of fertilising seems like a holy grail. I keep thinking with all the abundance of biomass we have here we must be able to close the loop but I fear I'd be working 24/7 to do that. I have also been thinking more about the use of urine but seeing your numbers there it seems we will need a lot although it's just one of many potential inputs. I meant to make a video last year about what fertalisers are available here in Latvia as we do have a supplier of fishmeal who also make a seaweed meal product but I haven't seen commercial-scale bags available, I do like their product and use it extensively. 'Food for thought'. Thanks.
I have "closed the loop" here. It's pretty cheap and easy and saves me a fortune in fertiliser. I "piss" into a 10L watering can with a big funnel in it's head. When I have enough saved up, I go and pour it over the garden where it's needed most. It's an amazing fertiliser...especially for the cost...which is nothing.
@@BalticHomesteaders You should dilute it any where from 5:1 down to 20:1. Don't apply directly to the roots of plants or seedlings since it may "burn" them. I generally just save up a 10L watering can of it, apply a light shower over the area, then hose that area down as a way to dilute it. That said, I live in Australia, so the plants are always in need of a good soaking anyway. Fresh urine has a really high nitrogen content, but it drops over time down to a 1:1:1 ratio. Use it fresh if you want the max nitrogen, or store it for a while if you are after a balanced feed.
Closing the loop is definitely a benefit, and something id like to explore a lot more. I tend to stay away from that aim mainly because I have such a large growing space, with at lot of other people eating the vegetables we grow (many would not be keen on using fertilised vegetables - but I am working on that.) A the moment there is plenty of fertility around, that would be much more acceptable for many people, so I focus on that. But we do need to explore how to close those loops of fertility.
The Haber process is one of humanity's greatest inventions, an invention that took us from a world with a small population that often suffered from famines to one with a large population that suffers from obesity, which is a far nicer problem to have. Just use the nitrogen responsibly. Regarding the need to be self sufficient I doubt nitrogen is something to focus on now. Even if supplies cut off (which I doubt) it is better to have a soil in top condition when the manure hits the fan. Maybe you could make another experimental plot, this one without fertility inputs, just lots of green manure in the crop rotation. Go medieval!
It is an amazing process, and I agree that we really need to use it responsibly, or at least more effectively. I also think that it is important to get the soil fertility into great shape ASAP given the possible future. But I also think that we need to learn how to do without synthetic fertilisers at the same time, because having to do this in a stressed environment or context would not be fun!
Love your videos and everything you do!!!, i have never heard from you talking about elaine inghams work, i wonder if you know about her and her work, some of her tecniques include making compost in specific ways to speed up life and using perennial covercrops to let the plants continously pump exudates to feed the soil web, i think it would be a wonderfull addition to your project
I have also wondered if you have tried some of the sintropic agriculture methods, Ernst gotsch said that when he was a kid in Switzerland people there did something similar, and it produced a lot of food. Now sintropic agriculture is mainly spread in warmer climates but if something similar was done in Switzerland maybe it might work for you
I thought you might like to know... Tim over at WAY OUT WEST channel just put up a video "Saving Your Own Vegetable Seeds - A Visit To Brown Envelope Seeds" about a seed producer in Cork...
Thanks, I hadn’t seen that video. I occasionally get seeds from Brown Envelope Seeds, but they sell small quantities of seeds, which ends up being expensive for the amount I grow.
Great Video. Thank You. I think nitrogen supply is actually not a problem in the big picture. There is plenty of it in the air and we have a method of making it available to plants (Haber-Bosch). In the long term this could even be done using renewable energy and synthetic methane gas. What could become a problem though is phosphate. The only way to gather it is literally mining it from the earth on places where there is a high concentration of it. And then we dilute it in the ocean with our human excrements. When the mines are starting to run out of it we will have to use our human waste anyway to gather the phosphates from it.
I think you kinda concluded with this as well around the 13:30 mark, but using rolled oats seems a little irresponsible since it is already a compatible human/animal food source. The farmer who grew those was dealing with the same issues and you just took their output and used it as your input because it is economical (their industry is probably subsidized by the government). I mean, the only thing that would make sense is if that farmer bought your output and used it in their input.
All fair points, and I think it is important to understand this at a broader level. Another way of looking at it is ok for small scale growers to use whatever is easy, cheap and available. I worry that we place too many barriers for people to start to grow food, and taking an easy way is acceptable if but gets them growing.
That contaminant is pyralid. It is possible to get rid of in the manure from the farms if the farmers make sure not to feed the animals with a fodder that is sprayed with klo pyralid. Grass plants can grow in that contaminated soil. But nothing else..
You didn't talk about the azotobacter that can fix a very good amount of nitrogen if they have carbon ton eat. Also rain brings a fair amount of N over the year.
I don't really know much about those things, and in this video I was concentrating on things that I knew I could rely on. I'd love to explore a lot of other options, as you suggest.
I have heard different reports. Some say hardly anything is left if you harvest the peas and beans, others say that quit a bit of nitrogen can be transferred to the soil and other plants.
My favorite topic! :) Concerning feeding plants to plants instead of animals I would assume that this is a plus actually. In the end these animals only serve the purpose to produce food for humans just like crops do and the question is wich middleman is converting the resources more effectively. I haven't looked at specific studies but I know the broad statistics that 77% of used farmland, the one used for animal agriculture, produces only 18% of calories consumed by humans. Some of this includes grazing land wich arguably couldn't be used for crops but there is also a lot of unnatural grazing land created by clearing, fields of feed crops with could grow food, and some land wich probably could grow plants well but is used for grazing because it's low tech and low effort. From a biological standpoint it seems logical to me because plants do photosynthesis and are "less active" than animals, therefore they should require less organic food.
It is an interesting topic! I do think there is a significant difference with using the wastes from a larger industry rather than using the primary resources, but it is a nuanced difference. I don't have much control of the world around me, but If I can make use of a waste product of a big industry, then that is can be a useful thing to do. But I think that I should not delude myself into thinking that using this manure or waste means I am not engaging in the 'bad' synthetic fertiliser system. Getting a farmer to grow grain using synthetic fertiliser, and using the grain on the garden, is only asking someone else to do the conversion from synthetic fertiliser to something I like better. And it is increasing the demand of a primary resource, and using land.
I'm a bit surprised you didn't mention the crunch in nitrogen supplies. Manufactured nitrogen is made with natural gas strangely enough, they use the hydrogen atoms from the gas to make ammonia, NH4, and then use that to make all the various nitrogen fertilizers. I'm sure you're aware of what's going on with natural gas, lots of fertilizer production shut down due to the price of gas these days, and while hating to sound crazy there's been a large number of mysterious fires and explosions at fertilizer plants in the last year, a huge one near me just went up destroying 2 million tons of fertilizer. Many exporting countries have said that they will not be exporting fertilizer this year and prices are going way way up. I'm an organic farmer, but this winter I bought 1000 pounds of urea, 40 percent nitrogen, to have on hand "just in case". If I'm hungry I'm not going to worry whether the food is completely organic.
My suggestion is ferment the fertiliser (for atleast 7days) before putting into the soil that way you will require less fertilizer to be used in your plot.
You know you can also pee on your compost so that it will compost faster. Fermenting urine for a month will make it safer too. Scientist has made a study of this.
My raspberries love some home made fermented urine. Nitrogen, phosphorous and "free" water. (I hope that the fermentation means that I'm eradicating any potential human pathogens reaching the soil.)
The N left behind in plants roots in the soil ( like the peas and beans) its barely enough to the soil organisms degrade/compost those root fibers left in the soils (assumming they are left there...). N is needed to compost that produces N! (If we add sintetic N or rich N manures to compost pile , specially a carbon rich pile, that composting will happen much better and faster. Anyway, most soils in temperate regions are not very much deficient in N. Whats getting in the way of more natural fertility is the lack of animals and its manure. For home gardenners most soils are ok enough. Comercial farmers (organic or conventional) need to add more nutrients because they plant and harvest annuals very intensivly, needing more productivity by plant and square meter... Both for home gardenners and comercial farmers, if there is a verified lacking in N in the soil, a good aplication at start in first year of sintetic/mineral or organic N rich manures will last for years. Unless you farm/harvest very very intensly its hard to starve the soils... Nowdays we see lots of "organic farmers" over applying ammendments, like manures, compost, woodships...wich usually is an advantage because of promoting weed control, and water retention, but its unecessary to promote fertility, which is in excess already in many cases. Plants dont absorve more then they capable acording to their genetics. This year fertilizers are so much more expensive ( double) then usual that the conventional/industrial farmming that produces 99% of our foods are gonna be much much inflated! You can inflate your prices as well... P.s. the main ingredient to any garden, comercial or amateur, is not fertilizers, nor compost...its water. Avaiability of Water, light, co2, and genetics of the seed/start, etc affects plant grow much more then anything in the soil (wich the main funtion is to anchor the plant).
'every solution creates an equal and opposite problem' or as we Yorkshire folk say 'you don't get owt for nowt' Unfortunately, the amount of N needed to feed so many humans outstrips the capacity for simple ecological replacement. We are the inherent imbalance.
There are limits to everything, or useful concentrations and rates of application. Too much nitrogen washing into the rivers/lakes/oceans and into our drinking water, can definitely cause problems.
natural nitrogen? its very easy, just keep a flock of chickens or rabbits, they will give all the nitrogen you need and eggs or in the case of rabbits meat if you whant.
But where does the nitrogen come from, likely from an unnatural source originally? I would have to buy in feed, or get material from elsewhere. The eggs and meat would be good, but I don't think it is the easiest way to get nitrogen into my garden
Close the cycle. Save your urine for compost and plants. Quick notes, I'm a pensioner with almost no income. I live on a piece of land which is mostly shale, and a very thin layer of degraded topsoil. I've been trying to take this awful, barren ground, and make it fertile. The two things I can highly recommend. Let weeds grow. There's no weeds in nature, only pioneers. Save your urine as a form of fertiliser. I've taken two pieces of land that were barren before and they are now supporting trees. It takes work. Lucky for me we have a dinosaur here called a "bush turkey". They make a nest out of compost which can be several metres in size. The nest is cared for throughout Summer, but falls into dis-use for the rest of the year. That nest is now about 4 tons of compost which I can use on the garden. Yes, the turkey stole a lot of it from my plants early on, but it also took material from about a 50m radius. I'm harvesting it this season, and using it for my trees. From what I've read, a single person can produce enough urine to fertilise 1 square metre with every litre of urine. 10 litres is 10 square meters. That's more than enough for even the largest garden each year. Close the cycle. Remember the old saying about not having a pot to piss in? Don't be that person, have a pot to piss in, save it for your garden. Don't pay for fertiliser when you don't need it. www.permaculturenews.org/2011/11/27/urine-closing-the-npk-loop/
All sound advice, and it sounds like you have developed an approach that really works for you. I do use urine a bit. With the size of the project I am working on and the fact that other people eat most of the food I grow, I have been hesitant about using it too much.
A lot of the grains used as animal feed are unfit for human consumption. They are a by-product of the cereal or brewing/distilling industry, and thus fed to cattle etc. I think it's more about having a healthy, balanced and living soil than chasing numbers. A little like people saying you need to add cal-mag to avoid blossom end rot. When a lot of the time it's down to improper watering. Or that the plants roots just aren't established enough to get at the water/nutrients lower down in the soil/compost. And also why when you try these treatments, the blossom end rot magically goes away. Which it would have anyway now the plant has had more time to establish a decent root base. As well as the fact, people have been much more diligent about watering during that period. So did the cal-mag actually help? I grow a lot more tomatoes than I can use each year, and give away the vast majority to friends and family. Never used cal-mag and never had blossom end rot.
With you compost having a PH of 7 to 8.5 I think you need to do an analysis of how many protons you're purchasing per $ spent. If Calcium uptake maxes out at 6 PH then you need more protons(acids). [I'm assuming your garden has a PH above 7 & suggest trying to get closer to 6, though I'm a novice/beginner]
This is just my opinion, but I don't know if I would be comfortable with human waste being used on food plants. I am concerned with diseases being able to spread easier mostly. But I feel like putting a "buffer" crop like a green manure or animal feed, which could then work its way back into the soil, would be a way to use it.
I put cardboard then compost in my greenhouse and it was a real failure. I ended up tediously pulling it all out from around the tomato plants. It just put up a complete water barrier and gave me some horrible fungus growth in the anaerobic conditions it created...
@@REDGardens About 2 days. It was a brand new greenhouse and I was eager to get going. I think cardboard works well as a path underlay (under wood chips for instance), but I wouldn't use it again around plants...
Another very thought-provoking video Bruce. There were a few things I thought of... years ago we used to be able to buy grass pellets to feed the horses, a little at a time as they were rich, but they would be packed full of nitrogen. That bought me to pony nuts, a compact pellet, horse feed, containing all sorts - I will look up the contents. Are there such things as seaweed pellets? And I wonder then if we could soak our own seaweed in large containers as we do comfrey etc - cool for smaller growers, but not as easy for others. I do keep hens, but I'm also thinking of keeping quail - could we soak poultry manure to give us a concentrated feed? There would be the bedding to think about I suppose because I use shredded paper and straw which would be carbon, but there is still bedding in farm manure. I wonder how much nitrogen we would get by soaking grass clippings, or clover? and if it would outweigh the amount got from cutting it and spreading or composting - if it was topped up time and again with more water. It would be an entrepreneurial business to maybe collect 'green' food waste to make into nitrogen pellets for gardeners :-) . I'm looking forward to your next video already.
GThewre are so many options, and a lot of it depends on what is available, preferably locally, what kind of processing does it take, what are the downsides (there are always downsides), and do we want to avoid some of the ingredients and industries for ethical , health or moral reasons. A lot of the animal feed around here it seems to be based on soya imported in from Brazil, so I definitely want to avoid that. I do use seaweed dust, but only a small amount, and I think the amount of sodium in it would prevent it from being used to supply any significant amounts of nitrogen, even if we could assume that the harvesting was ecologically fine. The whole idea of soaking things to extract the fertility, such as weed tea is a really interesting possibility.
@@REDGardens oh yes! Brazil? that's pretty shocking really, it has been a while since I was in the loop so to speak. And seaweed is ok of course as you say, but I always think of what else may be in it, salt and unknown additives. I am unsure how they make it organic - something for me to explore. As we said before, I have to stop being so analytical somewhere down the line, but where? I'm not so sure as yet. I am just so suspicious of things these days. I'm very interested in the imports now that fuel has risen, it could be good for some things, such as less waste, more people growing and trading on a free market economy, and bad for others. Weed tea is an amazing soil amendment - I think I saw it on Hugh Richards' video and I wonder how long it will be until we can buy it more commercially. Fascinating times, Bruce, philosophically speaking.
