Jumbo is totally in the right on the orb of dragon kind. I don’t really understand the worn power stone comparison. It enters tapped and doesn’t care about dragons. Jumbo framed the card in reference to a dragon deck and in his examples given I think he is sound in saying it speeds you up two turns via the mana ramp as well as haste in a combat focused dragon deck. The other point about lightning greaves/dragon tempest are not applicable as you should already be playing them in a deck with large mana creatures that want to deal combat damage, and they are not also mana rocks so I don’t even consider them in the same category
I love Murph and the rest of the Command Zone crew, but it's absolutely refreshing to see someone on the show like DJ that isn't obsessed with optimization at all costs. Sometimes it's ok to be SLIGHTLY less optimized in terms of Mana value if it means adding some flexibility, and I feel in general the Command Zone crew are more against this idea. Also, sometimes cards just do different things and are fun to try, and DJ embodies that spirit. Rather than "well it's not one of these 100 staples so why would I play it?"
@@Fractalmortality To be fair, I feel like Jimmy often embodies that side of things a bit more when it's Josh and Jimmy doing a podcast together. But yeah, I agree that DJ's perspective is often refreshing.
@@Fractalmortality I wanted to reach through my monitor and slap Murph....brushing this card off like its really not going to help anyone very much in a game. This thing is going to be the next all-star in my Ur-Dragon deck and that deck has close to 1000$ worth of cards in it.
I appreciate someone who will talk about how fun a card is and be happy about it instead of just talking about the cards that are the most powerful. Embrace the fun!!! EDH is all about using the many fun cards throughout Magic's history.
I run Miirym and have all the dragon orbs and they are competitive, trust me. Run them. The red and green orb have become hot targets for how good they are, and the new 2 drop dragons work really well around them. The reality is you will be dropping these on turn 3 ANYWAYS so the 1 extra mana actually doesnt matter with the D&D dragons kit. Run them in addition to the tempest and greaves of course. They are great redundancy, not replacements.
I love having DJ back! I'm a fan of jumbo commander and I love that DJ recognizes some of the more budget friendly thematic decks can be fun too. I 100% agree with his love of the 3 drop dragon mana rock. There's more to life than streamlining your curve. Thanks DJ!
The way to analyze these new three mana rocks is to think of it as getting utility/synergy from your ramp slots like we do for utility land slots. Would I run Carnelian Orb of Dragonkind in a dragon deck? Yes, and also all the other cards murph brought up. Its not an either/or, its a both/and. I just would only dedicate 1-2 ramp slots as "synergy ramp".
To be honest, I'm getting really tired of all the content creators hating on 3 mana rocks and some of the mid tier lands. My mana bases are a little slower, but to to totally honest 0% of the playgroups I've been in have accelerated the way the command zone's has. So it's a non issue for me. Not everyone has infinite budget to put into magic. It's getting really old hearing "it costs three mana, it's trash." The orbs are ramp that synergize with dragon decks both in terms of gameplay and flavor. I like them.
@@joshholmes1372 I play Intet (maybe switching to Miirym? Idk yet, I like getting the big mana freebies from Intet) and I'm putting in all 3 of these and the original one is already in the deck.
Murph embodies the mindset that makes commander unfun to play. Like really, you're gonna get that pressed over the possibility of a situational 3 cost mana rock seeing casual play?
Carnelian Orb of Dragonkind can be so good even if you already run Dragon Tempest, Swiftfoot boots or lightning greaves in your deck, it just gives you another way to accelerate your attacks and also the extra red mana can be very helpful to cast one more big dragon in the turn. I'm running it in my dragon deck and I have zero regrets
A cool scenario with fraying line: if you play a Commander like the new Renari that gives artifact flash you can cast fraying line at istant Speed during the end step of the opponente before you and put a counter on your best creature, then the next upkeep is yours and you just don't pay the 2 mana and everything gets exiled except your creature. This way you don't give any option to your opponents and it just becomes a colorless wrath of God that also exiles
Man I forgot how much I miss DJ’s spice of life when it comes to loving bigger, maybe clunkier cards. I feel like if it was Jimmy and Josh hosting this episode, Legion Loyalty would have just been covered as “8 mana, not playing it, moving on”
I thought that they were a bit harsh on the gates with what they said and not to mention the one card that that came in said set which can counter some of their argument against the gates.
And you can run a ramp suite of gate fetch effects, and there’s enough that you’re probably going to be able to ramp pretty early in the game. It definitely lowers the power level a little, but I have a naya dinosaurs deck that runs gates without any specific gate synergy other than running explore the under dark and circuitous route, and it doesn’t seem to do significantly worse than my decks with highly optimized mana bases
@@DudeMan1620 You're welcome! Time is precious after all! Put those minutes into brainstorming a creative deck name rather than "Name of commander, name of strategy" haha 😉
Not mentioning the cycle of adventure dragons with CMC 6+ they are great for high cmc decks. You can unsummon for 2 mana, but it counts as 8 for anything cmc related.
Is DJ a teacher, and what does he teach? He's always given off teacher vibes, and him only appearing in videos during the summer seems to track with that.
I haven’t seen anyone talking about it but I really like Astarion’s Thirst. Yes, the mana cost for single target removal is a little bit high, but the upside seems really good. Plus you can play it as a combat trick instead.
The Marut was my fav card in the set in the commons slot, Flaming Fist is my fav Uncommon (cause of flavor alone), and rare is Lae'zel's Acrobatics cause more blink sounds like fun, mythics is either Baeloth Barrityl, Entertainer for flavor or Legion Loyalty for fun (copper dragon would be another pick but I think alot of ppl like that one so outside that these are the ones on my mind atm).
I already slid Displacer Kitten into my Noncreature Spellslinger deck and you guys listed off even more stuff that makes me happy about that fact. More uses of my Planeswalkers, bouncing Filter Lands (after they were activated so they become even more mama positive), bouncing mana rocks, etc all will help that deck a lot AND the added bonus of it being a protection ability in that deck really helps. I am also looking for a way to slide Deep Gnome Terramancer in there for improved ramp.
Also I got to play Green Slime...so underrated. You'd be amazed at how many scenarios it comes up. The foretell makes it especially useful, because then you aren't holding up mana or a card in your hand.
Murph, I still run Coalition Relic & Chromatic Lantern in a lot of my 4-5 color decks… and I’m running Carnelian Orb because DJ is right. Having an extra haste enabler (in addition to Tempest, Greaves, and Boots) almost guarantees my Utvara Hellkite or Balefire Dragon will be wreaking havoc as soon as they hit the board
As someone who does build in budget, I’d like to offer a quick counter to their thoughts on gates as a budget mana base. If you commit to gates, you get access to cards that ramp gates or basics(circuitous route, explore the under dark etc) you can use these cards to get Gond’s gate, which makes all your gates enter untapped. With the number of cards that can tutor gates, in my newest 5c budget deck I am consistently getting gond’s gate out turn 3-4, and at that point, all my gates are effectively og dual lands with upside. Their points about slowness are valid, but if you are smart with ramp/fixing, this mana base of gates is more legitimate then they are making it out
Definitely on the same page as DJ with Battle Angels. The card is really strong, sure it’s not Thoracle/Consult, but it’s a strong card that does a lot, even in competitive games. 😁
Black Market connections is like a planeswalker on an enchantment. But better. If you can have a slot for it, slam it in there. Or make room for it. Its easily a card that will go up alot in price.
I’m running the orb in my dragon tribal as well as all the other haste enablers mentioned, sad they didn’t mention the jade one too as hexproof until you’re next turn seems legit to me.
I have to say with ultra pro playmats. I have 1 I think it's link between worlds art (one of the ds era LoZ) and I've used it daily since like 2016 for a mousepad and beside 1 corner that had a chunk of foam pop out it still looks great and works great.
I've actually been going back to 3 mana mana rocks. Also, he's underestimating the value of it being the mana rock instead of boots that everyone blows up almost on sight.
Also Murph is severely overestimating the tapped lands. They are fine for most games. Gates are amazing for budget builds, but you'll probably get hated because of Maze's End even if you don't run it. EDIT: And then they don't even talk about the uncommon gate which completely undoes the downside to gates.
Murph is crazy. A mana rocks that gives haste to whatever it casts is super powerfull. Only doenside is it's just for dragons. So very limited what decks want it
when I seen the ancient copper dragon, I thought of Magda brazen outlaw and died laughing the red green synergy with gala greeters is hilarious #freerealestate
I agree the gates are definitely slower, but I think they have more use in 4-5 color decks. I don’t know about the rest of y’all, but I don’t feel like spending 100+$ on just all the shocks for my five color deck. Duals are definitely out, and without shocks or duals fetches certainly aren’t worth it, so most of the mana base is already coming in tapped. If most of the base is coming In tapped already then those taplands may as well give me some incidental synergy such as mazes end or other gate synergy.
Green dragon (bronze) is definitely better than Black (brass), having played them both now. The reason I say that is that it is KILLER for voltron style decks. I put one in a "Wilson the Sailor" deck (Wilson, Refined Grizzly + Sword Coast Sailor) and it PERFORMED.
I like Fraying Rope, I think most people would prefer not to spend two mana unless they have a really important creatures out, so often it will just be a board wipe that saves your best creature. I think it will rarely make it a full rotation with everyone paying the 2.
The commentary regarding the elder dragons is correct - without haste, they're not nearly as good. I put the green one in my Vorinclex, monstrous raider deck, but realistically expect it to draw removal before it ever sees combat. Seven mana is a lot to pay to draw a removal spell out of your opponent's hand, but hopeful that I'll be able to successfully connect with it at some point. Wish me luck! Greatsword of Tyr is a common from this set, not overly valuable (cost-wise) yet playable in some scenarios - for sure it's worth a look!
Murph: "If most of your mana base comes into play tapped, you're basically a turn behind everybody else" Also Murph: "*Worn Powerstone* is a better card than this card(Carnelian Orb of Dragonkind)"
Quite literally destroyed a playground with Battle Angels of Tyr in my Isshin deck. Turn 5 win (with humble additions of Unquenchable Fury turn 4 and then with the extra Treasure Tokens Aurelia, The Warleader turn 5)
My biggest issue with Cut a Deal is that you only get two cards if someone gets knocked out early. At least Secret Rendezvous guarantees you three cards every time you cast it.
The opposite, actually. A creature that comes into play already attacking does not trigger "when this creature attacks" triggers, because it was never declared as an attacker
31:17 Carnelian Orb of the Dragonlord and others of the wheel would have been nice if they had the subtype - Dragon tribal. Would have been nice to see these as tribal spells that could be searched...
I don't think Displacer Kitten is as universally good so you guys do. Don't get me wrong, it's VERY GOOD, but it also gets in it's own way a little bit. You can protect it easily in a spellslinger deck, but then you don't have a lot of permanents to blink. You can run it in an ETB deck, but then you're heavy on creatures and don't have a lot of ways to trigger it. Artifact decks are probably it's best home and best way to ensure you have plenty of triggers and targets.
I'd run Carnelian Orb in a dragon deck bc lets be honest not everyone has Tempest, Greaves and/or Boots.....well maybe everyone has Boots. Tho, tapping Carn Orb to play a dragon that dragon automatically has haste and you don't have to move artifacts around. I'd say Greaves and Boots are good for like if you play 2 or 3 dragons a turn.
The haste mana rock is good for casual like I play cedh and know when a card is good for casual dragon decks. Idk why he doesn’t but that’s his opinion
Merv is a bit cocky on the red orb…but he rather runs 2 mana ramp and lightning greaves…that is beating the odds of getting those two cards in play first… the orb is a very decent card multi use build in 1 card…. imho
Also you get 10 cmc of stuff. That is far from what rise usually gets. When I play command the dreadhorde I take somewhere around 20 damage. Cause you need stuff
My promo card from my prerelease box was a foil Ancient Copper Dragon, i couldn't believe it. Its not just the most expensive Dragon from the cycle its the most expensive card in the set. I'm wondering if it makes it even more expensive that it has the foil etching promo logo on it,
DJ just gives us the fun vibe EDH has been kinda losing. They be like you can play that, you cant play this coz its not efficient or powerful. Then DJ be like nah i like it coz its splashy, fun, interactive. 😊❤️
