The Church of Christ says they are not a denomination - instead they are a restoration of Christ’s true churches. How do they differ from Independent Baptist Churches?
I was born and raised church of Christ. Most people I tell about my experience think I’m exaggerating. My partner is catholic and he didn’t believe that church was 3 hours on Sunday morning and another 2-3 Sunday night. After the first hour when we had a break he got up and said it wasn’t as bad as I made it out to be and asked if I was ready to go. I smiled and said “we haven’t had church yet… that was Sunday school.” The look on his face was priceless.
Rebecca Roberie Most churches of Christ are not that long; usually bible class is an hour and worship is about 1.5 hours on Sunday morning. I actually wish both were longer for where I attend we have really good bible teachers and I love the beautiful singing to our Lord. Also I love fellowshipping with my brothers and sisters in Christ.
@@bmak76 Do you believe one is saved by faith only? Did you say the Sinner's Prayer and ask Jesus into your heart? What do you believe is the purpose of water baptism?
@@bmak76 You do know that Saul who later became the Apostle Paul was told in Acts 22:16 Why tarriest thou? arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling on the name of the Lord. His sins were not forgiven til he was baptized. I Peter 3:21 says baptism doth also now save you and you say baptism doth not save you. Jesus said in Mark 16:15-16 "Go into all the world and preach the gospel. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. And he that believeth not shall be condemned. What about in the days of Noah, only eight souls were saved by water; I Peter 3:20? Shouldn't God have let others be saved? Also Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness and he had no sin. We are baptized to have our sins washed away/forgiven; Acts 22:16, Acts 2:38. Baptist teach that one is saved first by belief only and that is not taught in the word of God. There is a scripture that says NOT by faith only; James 2:24. Read Acts 8:35-39 and note what needs to be done when Jesus is preached. I pray that you will visit the church of Christ for they teach the truth on how to be saved. There also isn't any Sinner's Prayer or accepting Jesus into your heart as your personal savior in the New Testament; it is a man made tradition. Try and find it in the King James Bible it isn't there. Paul said in Romans 6:3 Know ye not that so many of us as were baptized INTO Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? Baptism puts one into Christ. Can one be saved without being "IN Christ?" Paul 's statement in Galatians 3:26-29 further defines the passageway into Christ: For ye are all children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized INTO Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither male nor female, for ye are ALL ONE IN Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's. then ye are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Any other method of entrance such as the Sinner's Prayer is a false approach spoken of by Christ in His words, "but climbeth up some other way" (John 10:10). The Sinner's Prayer puts no one into Christ. Because the Sinner's Prayer is not the obedient act whereby we "put on Christ."The Sinner's Prayer", therefore, does not make all one in Christ Jesus. And because the Sinner's Prayer does not make us heirs according to the promise. Baptism for remission of sins is the only obedient act that accomplishes all of these things (Galatians 3;26-29, Romans 6:3-5).
This is a very informative video and, as someone who is part of churches of Christ, I can say that his depiction of us is quite accurate. The only things I would modify are 1) When he says that some wear head coverings, don't eat in a church building, insist on one cup for the Lord's Supper, etc., "some" should probably be understood as a small minority. Mainstream churches of Christ have no issue with most of the things mentioned in this portion of the video. Going along with this observation is 2) CENI is something that churches of Christ apply with varying degrees of flexibility. The most conservative churches are very stringent in making sure every practice can be labelled as either a command, example, or necessary inference. The most progressive churches probably do not seriously consider CENI at all when setting a policy. Some in mainstream churches of Christ likely do not realize they can apply CENI inconsistently, but others who nuance their understanding of it generally recognize that CENI is an important interpretive principle but not the overarching paradigm for how all Scripture should be read. Thank you for the video, and for the opportunity to learn some about Independent Baptist Churches!
Well said Brother Lee. Just like the Independent Baptists there are varying views on salvation etc. to be found in CofCs. Some congregations do not use Instrumental Music in the assembly but do not believe it is sinful to do so. Yes, it is good to learn more about other religious groups. Thanks for the video.
@@steenystuff1075 Very true. We humans make the gospel so complicated. If you are thinking about Christ talking to him in prayer or share him with others. You are probably saved. It all about Jesus.
In 1 John 5:13, belief is a synecdoche for the plan of salvation; which includes Hearing the Gospel message, Believing in Jesus, Repentance of sins, Confession of Christ, and Baptism. All of these are explicit in the account of the Eunuch in Acts 8 except Repentance which in implicit in the account.
This is very accurate. The "some" (one cupper, one loafers, no Bible classes) are a very small minority. We speak where the Bible speaks and remain silent where the Bible is silent. We are members of the of the church of which Christ Jesus established Who is the Head of and will remain forever. We are not even close to the church of John Calvin nor do we adhere to the "gospel of John Calvin." It's funny you mention Thomas Campbell, I never knew who Thomas Campbell was until I was about 40 years old when I happened upon a book with his name on the cover in the church building library. The baptist know more about Thomas Campbell than we do and use a derogatory term in calling Christ's church members "Campbellites."
you're right.. campbell did not establish the church of christ, jesus established it. campbell simply found out about the church by studying the scriptures. i read there are over 500 one cup congregations in the u.s.
@@JxT1957 I believe that to be true. I'm pretty sure it was part if what is commonly known as "The Restoration Movement" with another gentleman named Barton Stone. Apparently they were Presbyterians. Check out: The Last Will and Testament of The Springfield Presbytery.
Being a minority doesn't mean we are wrong. The Churches of Christ that do multiple cups split away from the original Church of Christ based on worldly fear during the Spanish Flu not because they where correct. The Bible always refers to one cup because the church is one body.
The church of Christ does not like mentioning Thomas Campbell because then members will see that their church building didn't start during Pentecost. They don't want to give Campbell credit that he did in fact start the "churches of Christ buildings". God never instructed us to go to a building that says, Church of Christ and that that will be the only true Church. I'm upset that church of Christ buildings say they are the only true Church and others are going to hell.
@@Letusadore The Church of Christ is described in detail in the new testament. The Churches of Christ are is the only church I have ever been to that does it the way the Bible says without adding or taking away from what is called for. I went to many denominations before going here. I thought the same thing and listened to what other said and none had been their. All they did is fear monger and lie about The Churches of Christ. Thomas Campbell did not start the church. He started the restoration of what was left of the church. People that chose the movement was from churches that was changing from the ways the Bible outlined.
Cornelius and the Gentiles with him were saved before they were water baptized. Beginning from the NT Church: a. If one has been "given" the Holy Spirit he/she abides in God = is saved (1 John 4:13). b. These Gentiles were "given" the Holy Spirit before they were water baptized (Acts 11:17; 15:8). c. Therefore, these Gentiles were saved before they were water baptized.
Baptists believe one is saved by faith only but there is not a scripture that says one is saved by faith only. Jesus does say "He that believes AND is baptized shall be saved and he who does not believe shall be condemned." (Mark 16:16). Even Saul who later became the Apostle Paul was told in Acts 22:16 "Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins calling on the name of the Lord." Peter says in Acts 2:38 "Repent and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ FOR (means the reason why) the remission of sins. So if Jesus, Paul and Peter says baptism is essential to be saved then it is good enough for me. Also baptism is not a work of man but faith in the working of God and some versions say operation of God; Colossians 2:12. Baptism by itself does not save one also needs to do what is said above and also confess that Jesus is the Son of God; Acts 8:37. Also read Acts 8:35-39 and you will see what needs to be done when Jesus is preached. Also note baptism is an immersion and not sprinkling nor pouring.
@@lindahutchens8612 there are plenty of verses in the King James Bible a person is saved by faith alone it does not have to say faith only the scriptures are very easy to understand let me say this the entire book of the gospel according to John is faith alone no other book in the Bible can contradict that that means the Bible does not contradict it self there are no contradictions lastly let me say this because it is very important the book of acts which the church of Christ loves by the way does not contradict John let me say this also the book of acts can be VERY DANGEROUS IF NOT UNDERSTOOD PROPERLY the book of acts just like every other book of the Bible must be studied as a whole not just a few verses what do i mean by not being understood properly ? Well false doctrine can be formed by skipping words by skipping verses skipping chapters with out detailed study and discernment cults are built around a few verses and they do not focus on any verse or chapter that does not support their view yes like I said the Bible must be studied as a whole not just a few verses that seems so called to support a certain doctrine of a cult spiritual discernment is the key that comes from the Holy Ghost nothing I say here is most likely going to change your mind because I have debated church of Christ members before on RU-vid like I said before when a verse very clearly states faith alone a church of Christ preacher will say that verse does not mean faith alone and they view that verse through what they believe in the verses they love the most
@@historychannel123 What about John 3:5 does that say faith alone? Does one need to confess Jesus or repent? Also baptism is necessary to be saved; Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Mark 16:16 and I Peter 3:21 says baptism doth also now save us. You say baptism doth not now save us. You just ignore all these scriptures and your belief that faith only saves is in fact a contradiction of James 2:24 which says not by faith only. By the way even Saul who later became the Apostle Paul had to be baptized to wash away his sins.
As a member of the church of Christ, I wanted to say thank you for your fair representation of our faith. If anyone here wants to know more about the church of Christ and why we believe what we believe, I am happy to answer.
How do you understand the biblical doctrine of prevenient grace (the idea that God enables all people to respond to his call to salvation) and how does it affect your view of human free will and divine sovereignty?
@@Holestic_Honesty one of the first sermons I preach when asked to fill in at a new congregation is "What is Grace?" I even wrote it as an article on my website and I believe this is one of the most important concepts for people seeking after God to understand. When I look through scripture at all the things the Bible has to say about saving grace, it has a lot to say about grace. We all know that grace means an unmerited favor, an unearned gift from God. Beyond that, many don't identify what that gift is. I would argue that God's gift to mankind that we did not earn, that God had in mind from the foundation of the world, was the plan of salvation (not salvation itself). This plan includes as its central point, Jesus Himself - the only unique Son of God (John 3v16). This includes His virgin birth, His sinless life, His redemptive work, His sacrifice on the cross, His death, burial, resurrection, ascension, High Priesthood, Kingship...and His teachings. What I mean is that the New Testament, Matthew to Revelation, is part of God's grace to mankind. So when I talk about saving grace, this is what I mean. Is that prevenient? Absolutely. Christ came and taught the Apostles everything that we read in the NT. Then, while the world was yet lost in its sin, Christ died. Both of those things happened before man could begin to be saved, so in that sense it is totally prevenient. As to the enabling part, I believe God enabled us via design to understand, to reason properly, and to respond with true (what is sometimes called "libertarian") free will to that call by the gospel (2 Thess 2v14). I do not hold to hereditary depravity (see Ezekiel 18) or the concept of "sinful nature" of mankind. I believe that all men are born pure, sinless, innocent (Deut 1v39; Rom 9v11; Rom 7v9) and that sin is neither our nature nor inevitable (1 Cor 10v13). Until we die physically and our soul is separated from our body, we have the choice to follow self or God. In terms of God's sovereignty, this means a few things, none of which holds to the deterministic ideas espoused by Calvinism and Reformed theology. Rather than typing out the whole response to this, I will refer you to another article I wrote defining the term as I understand it: swordmasterpublications.fandom.com/wiki/Sovereignty_Defined I hope this answers your question sufficiently.
@NZIGNANTI they are a distinct church and so cannot be the church Jesus built, though they are the closest man-made facsimile to it. If they would give up their additions and submit to the Word in all things, then they would cease to be a different organization. Their baptism would be valid for being added to the Lord's church rather than a man made one.
I grew up churches of Christ. I believe once you are saved, you are saved. I also believe that churches of Christ aren’t the only people going to heaven.
@@BigT-vk5yn ...I'm curious ...when you say "..I believe once you are saved, you are saved...."...do you mean the common evangelical "once saved always saved"/ "Impossibility of Apostasy"...or rather apostasy isn't entirely impossible- it just isn't probable?...
I have a question. As no women participated in the Last Supper where The Lord instituted the Lord's Supper, are women in the Church of Christ permitted to partake in "Communion" services?
@@michealhutchins15 I used to be Baptist. Baptism is for the remission of sins along with acknowledging Jesus is the son of God and repenting of past sins. There is no sinners prayer in the Bible. I converted to the Church of Christ because they don't add or takeaway from what the Bible says has to be done. Every denomination I went to before had multiple things wrong. They can't all be right.
The Bible says believe repent and be baptized for the remission of sins. Paul was very specific when asked how to become a Christian. Satan believes. That will not save him.
@@samguillepa6477 The very question was asked " what must I do to be saved?" The philippian jailer asked it. Now what was the answer? BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST! The eunuch was wondering what hinders me to be baptized? And was told believest with all thine heart thou mayest and he said I believe! Now to be saved you must believe in your heart confess with your mouth brings salvation. And he did just that and the baptism in water is just a outward testimony of what has happened since you believed.
@@user-sl5rk4dm8y The very examples you use to proof text your belief disproves what you believe. you quote Acts 16:31 ‘Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved' but neglect the fact that they do not know what to believe until they are taught in vs32 "Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house". So, upon hearing the gospel he repents, shows his repentance by his deeds and is baptised. This is always the pattern. Hear, believe, repent, confess, be baptised. Regarding the Ethiopian Eunuch: Acts 8:35 "Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus. 36 As they travelled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, ‘Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptised?’ What do you think Philip told him was necessary as part of the good news about Jesus given the Eunuch's response? When you know the truth of the good news about Jesus you will understand that it requires baptism to enter into his plan of salvation revealed through faith in the Cross of Christ. If baptism is not essential then neither is the death of Christ; because Romans 6:3 says we are baptised into his death.
@JalapenoDoubleCheeseburger yeah that too. you must believe- john 3:16, you must repent- luke 13:3, you must confess- mathew 10:32, and you must be baptized- mark 16:16, acts 2:38, acts 22:16
Funny how Baptists don't believe it is necessary to take the Lord's supper every first day of the week but believe you need to tithe every first day of the week. What's up with that?
Here is my two cents on the church of Christ We have separate cups and bread for communion We have separate classes for age groups so toddlers" elementary, middle and high school, adults including college students as we have two of them Headcoverings are not required but some of us do wear them in accordance to 1 Corinthians 11 We hold potlucks at least mine does and a few others My church has two elders and the desccions are made by the elders the preacher and youth minister and then put to a vote by the congregation We do not use instruments we think it is wise not to but outside of service we listen to instrumental music We believe if someone dies to young to baptized that they will be saved Please note this is what my congeration does slash believes
@Wesley and Lydia wondering what you mean by "Head covering is not required but some of us do wear them in accordance to 1Cor.11"? Have you read (vs.16)?
@@lilacmosby2837 I'm surprised to hear that there are churches of Christ today who misunderstand those scriptures. I'm sure they know it is not used by an overwhelming majority. Makes you wonder what else they may misunderstand and practice.
@@nikeinjesus1668 something you have to remember is individuals interpret scripture differently so while one might think it means one thing someone else might think it means something else
If baptism is necessary for salvation, then how do you explain the thief on the cross? He wasn't baptized before he died but Jesus promised that that day he would meet with him in paradise.
Sorry, that is not a difficult question. Christ had the power to forgive sins on earth. ( Read Matt 9:1-8). It is very informative. The thief event did not negate baptism for the forgiveness of sins!
@@darrellclark2248 Of course he had power to forgive sins on earth. And he still does. My sins were forgiven by the same Jesus as the thief on the cross. Why would baptism suddenly become integral to salvation after the ascension?
@@jonathanmcentire970 Read Roman 6:1-14 and listen to the words Paul actually used. God is not the secondary cause but the primary through Christ. Baptism is based on the power of the Spirit (John 3:5-8; 1 Cor 12:13; Titus 3:5). God is sovereign and saves whomever he pleases. He gives mercy and grace and he is not limited by anything but his divine word and nature. It is the work of the Spirit to place one into the Church which was purchased with Christ’s blood. In water baptism we are trusting in the power of God (Col 2:12).
Roman Catholics have a concept called "baptism of desire." I suspect the average coC member would have no problem with this concept . . . assuming that they can get past the fact that Catholics promote it.
@@MAMoreno The concept is speculative, but it taps into God as sovereign and able to save according to the heart of an individual. This idea was certainly present in the thinking of Alexander Campbell and many early leaders at least as recent as David Lipscomb. Such a practice should not be encouraged as an escape mechanism to avoid plain biblical teachings! Peace!
There is no Baptist church or any other denomination in the bible, The church of Christ is the only church that was purchased with the blood of Christ. Matt. 16:18, Acts 20:28, Romans 16:16. The Lords adds to the church after repentance and baptism. Acts 2:38-47.
The churches of Christ do not teach “salvation experiences” nor baptism. First: your feelings, beliefs, experiences and thoughts have nothing to do with salvation. Only obedience does! 2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; Second: Jesus is who teaches baptism: Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. There ya go!
@@davidortega357: that’s great scripture that teaches baptism is for the remission of sins; just like… Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. So what are you trying to say?
"He that getteth on the bus and sitteth down, goeth into town. But he who does not get on the bus, goeth not into town." It does not matter whether you sit down, just that you get on the bus.
@@chadtraywick2286 he that writes his name on the test and takes the test will get a grade. He that does not write his name on the test will not get a grade. You can take the test, but if you don't do both you cannot get a grade. Your logic is saying Jesus contradicted himself in Matthew 28:18-20 and Mark 16:16. There are too many scriptures to prove one must be baptized to be saved...and baptism alone won't save you.
"The like figure to this, even baptism, doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ," 1 Peter 3:21. Baptism is NOT a work of man as it is so stated....it is a spiritual act of obedience by a penitent believer that places that person in a state of salvation, BY the work of God. After all, that's the whole purpose of Christ/God. If it were a work of man, then that person would simply be taking a bath getting clean, as a work of that nature would produce a practical earthly result. THAT is specifically refuted in the above scripture. ........ Note, the RESULT of the ACT OF GOD is ,,,,,,,, "doth also now save us".
Listening to this makes me even more grateful for my own Church of choice I belong to, and the restoration of Christ's gospel and his organization. Wow. These guys are all over the place with theologies. BUT, one thing is for certain...as Christians, we should all be more supportive and considerate of one another's choice of Church which we may decide to join or if we choose not to belong to a particular Church. We all believe in the saving grace of Christ and we are going to need one another. Just bring all the truths you know and rejoice in Jesus Christ as we follow him. I hope we will not fight and argue amongst ourselves and allow everyone to seek out and make their own choice of church without treating one another poorly.
binmyrtmind Where in the scriptures does it say "join the church of your choice? Please read Acts 2:36-42. In the first century they never knew about all the different denominations we have today teaching different ways to be saved.
Let each and every one of us search the scriptures to find the church of Christ's choice - the church that He Himself declared He would build. Did He build that church? Or did He just give up and day, "Oh, go ahead and do whatever you want, I don't care."?
It says in Matthew 3:5,6 "Then Jerusalem, ALL Judea, and ALL the region around the Jordan went out to him and were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins." Question: can you name every single person who were baptized that day?
C.O.C. believe in the Authority of Scripture -Mt 28:18-20 make disciples, baptize them, teach them to obey. ‘Works salvation’ is a misnomer - ‘baptism,saying a prayer, accepting Jesus’ can all be called ‘works’. We are saved by Gospel -death,burial & resurrection of Jesus & our FAITH in it exercised in a scriptural baptism-Col 2:12.
Liz Miller Baptism is not a work of man but a work of God; Colossians 2:12 and is necessary for salvation. Why would God work and some versions say "faith in the operation of God if it is not necessary?
I was raised baptist and went to a church of Christ high school. From my experience it seemed that wearing hats inside the church building at a CoC is not okay at anytime, even if there’s no events happening, whereas I’ve seen some people wear hats at my church, less often during the actual service than at other times, and people generally take their hat off during prayers no matter where they are. I don’t even wear hats, I just thought it was an interesting observation to add.
Yes very true! I remember my Grandpa and other older men taking their hats off way before they get inside like just to be sure or something. I don't wear hats either though.
I was raised Apostolic pentecostal. Jesus only i had lots of baptists friends im a chicano our church was spanish speaking i became a believer got baptized in jesus name and receive thevholy spirit i spoke in new tongues halleluyah. Its a great feeling to feel his love after im still praising his name
@@davidortega357 Have you raised anybody from the dead, given a person their sight back who was born blind, etc? Where is the name Apostolic Pentecostal in the word of God?
@@Over-for-now You are the one who is denying the words of Jesus in Mark 16:15-16 which says "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved. And he who believeth not shall be condemned. You believe "He that believeth is saved" and that contradicts Mark 16:15-16. Only penitent believers are candidates for baptism; Acts 2:38. One is not saved by faith only; James 2:24. Also there is no Sinner's Prayer in the New Testament or asking Jesus into your heart. Read Acts 8:35-39 and note what needs to be done when Jesus is preached and verse I Peter 3:21 says baptism doth also now save us and you say baptism doth not save us. Galatians 3:27 tells us that baptism puts one "in Christ."
@@turtleneckferret Mark 16:16 contradicts what you said "We get baptized because we are saved not to get saved. Also I Peter 3:21 says baptism doth also now save us.
As a lifelong restorationist loosely associated with the independent Christian Churches, with independent Baptist friends, I sincerely congratulate you on your fair, objective, and balanced treatment of these distinctives. I would love to see your treatment of independent Christian Churches.
I recently began to attend both Bible class and worship service at a local independent Christian church and I really love what I'm seeing there and I, too, would love to see their treatment of the independent Christian Church faith in their next video presentation.
@ Felipe Watkinson. I'm intrigued by your description of yourself as being both a lifelong restorationist and loosely associated with the ICC's. Just wondering how that plays out. I preached for the Churches of Christ for several decades and then a twist of fate found me preaching for independent Christian Churches. From what I've seen, the only diff in the two is how the music is handled (and I never fell for the party line on acapella singing). Anyway, that is my experience. Just curious about your description...
@@r.f.pennington746 I am a 45-year-long second-generation missionary to Mexico, now working full time in the States to feed the family. Our mission agency was associated with the independent Christian Churches/ Churches of Christ. However, this brotherhood began to slip as early as the late 70's, largely due to the influence of Donald McGavran and the various "church-growth", seeker-sensitive, mega-church theories and models. Today, the emerging/emergent church has gone mainstream in academic circles, and a number of our schools and leaders are rapidly embracing what is called "Progressive Christianity" (theological liberalism regurgitated) There is a general lack of Biblical discernment at every level of the fellowship, and I think that the same can be said of the acapella brethren. For a fuller treatment of these subjects, I recommend Michael Hines' book History of the American Restoration Movement
@@felipewatkinson2101 For sure, the overall progressive movement has done a number on all the Restoration churches. Look what it did to the Disciples of Christ starting in the 50's and ploughing headlong into most of the 60's. Different talking points, because it was a different time in history, but the result is the same. I know some ICC's and CoC's that have fallen for this old slant dressed up in new clothes. However, I also know of some still extremely strong congregations on both sides of the 'musical instruments' if my humour isn't to dry. I guess we will always be fighting that balance between folks wanting to do 'cool church' and falling too far. We should be open minded...but not so open minded that our brains are falling out! There will always be a need for the watchman on the wall. Your name sounds familiar. Did you happen to be either in Mex City or Toluca somewhere around 1991 give or take? If so, our paths probably crossed.
How do you say that baptism is against Evangelical view? It’s in God’s written Word, except a man be born of water and the Spirit, those who were buried with Christ have put on Christ, he that believes and is baptized shall be saved one body, one Spirit, one faith, one baptism one hope of your calling, repent and be baptized every one of you for the remission of your sins.
Evangelicalism, which is a human title used to describe certain American churches, is opposed to baptism as necessary to savation, though they are not opposed to baptism.
Be born of water and of the spirit. you are misreading it sir water birth is out of a womans womb that's what hes talking about and if the spirit is when you repent and accept Jesus as Lord you receive the holy spirit and are reborn
@@CazDad are you 100% positive Jesus is referencing water in Jn.3:5 to birth water? Let's see. Did you know when Nicodemus came to Jesus that night, Jesus knew Nico and his pharisees companions had "rejected the counsel of God not being baptized of John"? Let that sink in, to refuse John's baptism, resulted in rejecting God's counsel. When the Pharisees demanded of Jesus to answer "by what authority do you do these things? Jesus answered and said "if you answer my question I'll tell you by what authority I do these things." They agreed, and Jesus asked "the baptism of John, was it from heaven or of man?" They huddle and refused to answer breaking the agreement. But Jesus didn't let them go, he told them the parable of the two sons, and after asking another question, he let them have it. Jesus said "the harlots and tax collectors go into the kingdom of God before you." Why Cameron? Because they justified God in sending John to baptize them. Meaning they declared God just in sending John to baptize them for the forgiveness of their sins (Mk.1:4). For those who submitted to John's baptism Jesus said would "go" into the kingdom. When Nicodemus approaches Jesus goes straight to the point and said "unless a man is born again he can not see kingdom of God." Now remember, those who were baptized under John's baptism were going into the kingdom. If Nicodemus had any intentions of becoming a disciple of Jesus, then he needed to do what everyone else was doing, and that was to submit to John's baptism. Nicodemus wasn't prepared, and asked "how can a man when he is OLD, be born again?" Jesus wasn't making it easy for him, as he was humbling Nicodemus. Jesus answered and explained "unless a man is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom." For Nicodemus (an old man) to be born again he needed to be born again of water and the Spirit. Nicodemus didn't have a problem with water referring to baptism for John and Jesus both had been baptizing thousands in water (Jn.4:1-2). It was the part of the Spirit that Nicodemus had a problem with understanding. As Jesus further explained, "that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." Keeping in context, water = baptism, that which is born of the flesh is the visible baptismal ceremony when our bodies are immersed in water. And born of the Spirit is invisible ("as the wind blows where it wishes") as the forgiveness of sins, the reception of the Spirit, and the answer of a good conscience. According to Peter "we have purified our souls in obeying the truth. Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but incorruptible, through the living and abiding word of God" (1Pt.1:22-23). The HS begets us through the Word of truth. Water in Jn.3:5 has never been a reference to child birth until Calvin interpreted as such. But scriptures don't support it. Remember, Jesus sits on that counsel as well, no one who is not baptized in water, as the Holy Spirit guides us through the truth will not see, nor enter the kingdom. "Marvel not what I told you, you must be born again."
@@nikeinjesus1668 you're clearly teaching a works based Gospel wich is a false Gospel I do believe some people are saved in your denomination but spiritually being starved by the false Gospel yall teach which is a Gospel of works being Baptized doesn't make you repent repentance comes from turning from your sins and turning to Jesus
@@CazDad is this the best you can do? It's obvious. You just been proven Jesus is NOT speaking of the "amniotic fluid" that breaks from child birth in Jn.3:5, and instead of dealing with it maturely, or demonstrating any Christ like example in your heart, you pathetically result to insults, typicall of someone who can't defend their position Biblically. You may not know this, but it was your precious Calvin who first interpreted water in Jn.3:5 to refer to something it's not. This is your position Cameron. "Unless you Nicodemus, an Old Man, is not born "again" of amniotic fluid and the Spirit you cannot enter into the kingdom of God." Yeah that makes alot of sense Cameron. Cameron, "if" there's any drop of Christianity in you, stop trying to explain away scripture and deal with what Jesus said, not Calvin, not your pastor, but Jesus. Here's your chance to prove your position. In the context of Jn.3, in order for an OLD man, Nicodemus, to be granted entrance into the kingdom, he had be born "again" of amniotic fluid. Go for it, but stay in context. Here's your delimma Cameron. Jesus granted access into the kingdom to those who submitted to John's baptism. "The harlots and tax collectors "go" into the kingdom of God before you." They didn't have to go back into their mothers womb and be born again of amniotic fluid, they repented and were baptized (Mk.:4). But "you" Cameron, is the one who is teaching false doctrines, for your position is that one first has to be born "again" of "amniotic fluid" in order to be granted entrance into the kingdom. That's not what Jesus said! That's what happens Cameron when you twist the scriptures. Nicodemus had already asked that question "can a man go into his mothers womb and be born again?" Of course not! So Jesus is not speaking about the water that breaks at child birth, but of baptism. Nicodemus got it over 2000 years ago, why can't you? It's because you've embraced false doctrine Cameron. Listen to Jesus Cameron "marvel not what I told you, you MUST be born again" (vs.7).
...doesn't the same Old Testament also command animal sacrifice; Temple worship; Sabbath day; a Priesthood; incense, etc. etc?... apparently some don't bother to "absorb" that...Jer 31:31-32
@@bspr9062 ...nice try, but no piano- not to mention no scripture to back up your argument...no where are Presbyters empowered to bind Old Testament worship ordinances (or any Worship rites) on the consciences of New Covenant believers, in particular gentiles...even the Apostles themselves were not (Acts 15:19, Col 2:16-17, Gal 2:14)...instrumental music doesn't get a "special pleading"- particularly when the OT is appealed to for supposed "authority"...
I've yet to have anyone explain to me how they draw the conclusion that water baptism is anything more than ceremonial, yet still God's command. Similar to the sacrifices in the Old Testaments, they didn't forgive sins - God did. They where a ceremonial practice, to denote repentance and obedience to God. Several times God commanded the Israelites to stop sacrificing until they got their hearts right. Their sacrifice meant nothing to Him. Idk. Chasing the truth is hard, with so many false teachings in the world.
Baptism is like a signature on a marriage license, the ceremonial act of signing the document seals the deal so to speak. God made a promise to save those who believe and are baptized(Mark 16:16), we can point to our baptism and be sure of salvation. Can God save the unbaptized? Of course, God can do what he wants! But why not take advantage of his unbreakable promise of salvation to those who believe and are baptized?
Why don't they sell everything they have and live in a commune? My experience with the Church of Christ was one marked by hypocrisy and very skewed interpretations of scripture.
Denominations: Satan and his ministers are busy teaching error 2 Cor 13:11-15. Imagine if Paul preached the true and original doctrine of the early church of Christ but the 12 apostles taught denominational doctrines i.e. Catholicism, Baptist, Methodist, Mormon, JW, Seventh Day Adventist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Nazarene, Mennonite. They would have had the same right to teach those doctrines then if they are correct now. But they are not right now so they would not have been right then. Can you see denominations in the Bible? What is a denomination then? It is a doctrine devised by man which has no biblical authority. Eph 5:23 "For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Saviour of the body". If the Lord is the saviour of His church, who is the saviour of the denominations? Eph 4:4 just says is was one body. Jude 3:3 "Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints".
Grew up Church of Christ in Texas all my life and this is so spot on. Had lots of Baptist friends to debate with lol Fun fact: a lot of the older, smaller, 'more strict' churches built their Parsonage as a separate building(usually just a house) for eating and general fellowship. I briefly went to one as a child, we did have Sunday school though. But instruments?! Oh no, you better not even clap in the Churchhouse! Lol
Belive it or not, the newer churches of Christ are not as strict as it used to be. Yes, the older more conservative churches of Christ are still that way but, the younger preachers and congregation are with the hand clapping and foot stomping and things of that nature. Still, no instruments and I do understand why.
I grew up in the Baptist church. But last year I became baptized and gave my life to the Lord our God who is in heaven. Kind of ironic that baptists must be baptized. However I'm not sold just yet because the man who was crucified beside Jesus was not baptized. But I did both just in case I didn't quite fully understand lol
@@craigsinclair4419 Hey Craig How do we know he wasn't Baptized? John's baptism was in power at the time there's no scripture telling us he was or he was not Baptized, for certain he was a Jew one who heard Christ's teachings because he asked that Christ remember him when he came into His kingdom (Luke 23:42-42) and while on Earth the message of the kingdom was Preached first to Jews (Acts 3:26) ...just a thought Craig , take care
The devil himself fell literally from heaven/saved. So much for once saved always.. Its totally ok to call this belief as BS. If one wants to know if someone has it right ask them about Israel and the so called chosen people...
You may want to study Church of Christs more. There is a non-instrumental branch and some who do use instruments. I grew up C of C and always used instruments.
There are two branches. The non-instrumentals go by "church of Christ" which I cover here. Wikipedia article on them is here: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churches_of_Christ There is also, as you mention, an instrumental group, which I don't have a video about, which also comes from the restoration movement. Many churches there are also called "church of Christ", like the one you attended. However, the two groups don't generally mix together. The wikipedia article that refers to the church you were a part of is here: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_churches_and_churches_of_Christ
Unfortunately, not everyone who calls themselves the Churches of Christ follows the apostle's doctrine. A Pope in the 7th century authorized the use of mechanical instruments. The word a capella means in the style of the chapel.
..that more conservative group finally split from the liberal Disciples of Christ in the 1960s, when it formally accepted mainline denominational status...although many had been distancing themselves for decades...they are generally called "Christian Churches", and sometimes "Church of Christ (Christian)"...now days most are indistinguishable from Evangelicals in practice or theology with a very weak or "low view" of the necessity of baptism...many even freely hire Baptist ministers...
I don't go to a church of Christ service, but based on what you said each church claims to believe, it sounds like they are more biblical than the Baptist.
@@baconbap ...turns out I got a chance to visit a (one cup) Church of Christ in Oregon...one of my hometowns...nice Brethren.....it had been there for years about a dozen or so members (mostly one family)...turns out the church met in a rented store... front just a block from where I once lived...I just never drove down that street...and as far as they were concerned "Covid Blovid"...🍷
To clear up confusion about the what church is established, guided, and directed by the Lord himself one only needs to look at the church he began when Jesus Christ lived on the earth. He has said "One Faith, One Lord, One Baptism" Not 10,20, etc different churches and different beliefs. When Jesus was on the earth he established a church with Specific callings (Apostles - Prophets, Seventy, Elders, Bishops, Patriarchs, Deacons, Teachers, Priests), he also has the Priesthood Authority given from Jesus to his Apostles and others in the Church, He had Revelation or Communication between God and man for the directly of the Church as a whole, and finally it was his church or "The Church of Jesus Christ" versus someone elses church whether Lutheran, Catholic, St Peter, Methodist, etc. That Church fell away over a short time after the Apostles were killed and the church that he established was no longer on the earth. We had the Catholic church begain at the Council of Nicea and other Prostantant churches form in the 1700's. What was needed was a complete Restoral or Restoration of Christs original church and all its tenants. That Church was restored back to the earth in the early 1800's by Christ himself and Prophets and known today again as "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints". The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has that Priesthood power restored (See church History of restoration of the Priesthood), Same callings and positions in the Church ((Apostles - Prophets, Seventy, Elders, Bishops, Patriarchs, Deacons, Teachers, Priests), and Living Prophets today on the earth that receive Revelation or Communication from God for the direction of his church. Furthermore, the Lord has give us additional scripture to draw us closer to Jesus Christ per the Book of Mormon, D&C and Pearl of Great Price. You dont' have to take my word for it but one can reach the Book of Mormon, Learn about his church and pray to God for answer and confirmation if one is earnest. Again, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is his Kingdom once again restored back to the earth preparatory to his second coming.
Baptists need to read this: By grace and faith alone? See: James 2:14-22 KJV: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Michael,I believe you're my brother in Christ! My name is Richard Rhoden from Muscle Shoals,Alabama. I worship at Cox Blvd. c of C in nearby Sheffield,Alabama. Saw your postings in other clips. God has given me the opportunity to tell people about salvation,worship and Jesus's one true church here on RU-vid. I love you in the Lord and keep serving Him. Richard
Although many Baptist argue that baptism isn't necessary for salvation, they will also argue that to not be baptized is not obeying God and this will keep one from salvation.
@@danielmoore8538 ..💦why not?...ALL the confessing sinners of Judea and Jerusalem came to John to be Baptized (Matt 3:5; Mark 1:5)...if "ALL" means "ALL"-why not the thief amongst them "ALL"?. ..in fact, we are told.. Jesus's disciples baptized even more sinners than John did(John 4:1,2)... Ever ask yourself how did the Thief seem to know the Kingdom Message so well?? (Luke 23:40-42)...the only way.. he had to have heard Jesus or John preach "repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at Hand!"...the Thief clearly knew that Gospel message, and also the personage and character of Jesus... a bitter, and backsliden wayward disciple..meeting his Master on the cross... Sorry to disappoint ...but frankly, that's a poor proof text...and it was never the normative way of becoming a New Testament Christian.. regardless. baptized, or not both, the Thief, and His Lord Jesus, died that day as Old Testament Jews..not New Testament Christians...so the Thief is entirely irrelevant..
"18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28 18:20 ........ The Great Commission given to all Christians by Jesus. Simply, Holy Spirit baptism was a promise made of God, fullfilled. Water baptism, that of the Great Commission is for man to perform. THAT is the ONE baptism. One Lord, one faith, one baptism," Ephesians 4:5 ......... Man cannot bring down Holy Spirit baptism down on another; that was an act of God.
Nonsense!... "Holy Spirit Baptism" is never mention in the New Testament after Acts 11...the Spirit being poured out on the Gentiles ...then it had been poured out on all flesh ...fully fullfilling Joel 2 prophecy...it never ever happens again...
jvolstad Forsake not the assembly; you may call it legalism but it is in the word of God for he wants us to encourage one another. Don't you need encouragement? If you attended the church of Christ and for some reason didn't like it, try another one since each are autonomous. You may find another that is more loving. We all need each other; for each one of us builds up the body of Christ, Have a blessed day.
When our human mind overtakes the divine mind, we tend to go to the "legalism reason" for refuge. If Jesus were still here preaching, how many people would say to Him "You embrace legalism"? Have we ever thought that maybe what we consider legalistic is actually the word of God.
Overall, this is a good video, but, you have not distinctly differentiated between Church of Christ (a cappella) and Church of Christ/Christian Church. Within the Restoration Movement, we think of ourselves as having 3 distinct groups. The legalist CoC a cappella, CoC/CC (independent), and Disciples of Christ. In the North, a great number independent instrumental churches go by CoC
Zane Griggs I attend the church of Christ and we are not legalistic as you call us just because we don't use instruments. We are not "one cuppers", have bible study at the building before worship and the children have their own bible study also before worship. All children meet together during Sunday worship with the adults. We talk about what Christ did for us in dying on the cross for the sins of man and about the grace of God. We also teach what Jesus taught "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved. And he who does not believe shall be damned; Mark 16:16. I Peter 3:21 says baptism doth also now save us and Colossians 2:12 says God is the one who works in baptism and other versions says operates in baptism. There is no scripture that says one is saved by faith only. All denominations teach conflicting doctrines; therefore, it isn't possible that all of them are biblically correct. Acts 2:38 says we must repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins and Saul who later became the Apostle Paul was told to in Acts 22:16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins calling on the name of the Lord." Paul was still in his sins until he was baptized. Also read Acts 8:35-39 and note the baptism that needs to be done is in water (not sprinkling verse 36, 38) and the confession that he made was "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God"; verse 37. May I ask if you ever attended the church of Christ and where do you worship at now?
As a member of the Christian Churches and Churches of Christ, I have to say that is one thing that most outsiders tend to overlook. They either just assume we are part of the non-instrumentalists/CoC or the Disciples. As far as issues like "legalism", your mileage will vary widely from individual church to individual church. I've worshipped at non-instrumentalist churches before, and some were just like the traditional style Christian Church services, just without the piano playing along. Others were very legalistic indeed. It really depends on the preacher and elders an individual church has, as there's no governing body beyond them to standardize things (which is a very good thing, as such bodies have been the ruin of many denominations!)
Churches of Christ do MANY things within their church services of which they have no command or example for. That's just a fact. Being someone who used to teach the prohibition of musical instruments and being someone who was a hardcore, die-hard church of christ follower, I can now see how utterly inconsistent we were with the CENI. They deny that they are inconsistent but the truth still remains. I do however still attend a church of christ but we DO use musical instruments. However, I believe in eternal security as well. Surprise! I also am tempted to believe that a person is justified by faith alone before water baptism however water baptism is certainly part of the conversion process of a Christian.
@Gary Johnson putting faith in hermeneutics to get truth, is man leaning to his own understanding. I am not saying it is not helpful as a discipline to not take things out of context, but i believe in the power of the Holy Spirit convicting us and leading us to all truth, not mens understanding and discipline in hermeneutics. I Believe the truth in the anointing we received by Gods grace in the truth of receiving Jesus by faith. To say everyone that is of Jesus practices hermeneutics is false.
@@ProclaimeroftheGospelofJesus Here is the fact that Baptism, as being part of Salvation came from Christ himself on the Day of Pentecost. I refer to John 16 where Jesus is preparing the Apostles for His upcoming death. He said He would send the Comforter (Holy Spirit) to replace Him. The Holy Spirit would not speak for Himself but on what He heard Jesus say. Fast forward a few days. In Acts 2 when the Apostles were in the room a sound like a mighty wind came from Heaven and each of them were filled with the Holy Spirit. When Peter spoke on that day he was speaking for himself but what the Holy Spirit told him to say. So when we reference back to John and the very words of Christ regarding the subject of Baptism, Christ Himself said it was necessary for salvation.
@@jamesstrohl2016 is it water baptism or that Jesus will baptize you in the Holy Spirit? Matthew 3 makes this clear. I believe we are water baptized because we have been forgiven and renewed by the Holy Spirit by faith in repentance and in receiving Jesus by way of the gospel of Jesus. The word baptism is not always referring to a water baptism and matthew 3 makes this clear. Peter remembered this is acts 10-11 with Cornelius. Acts 10- 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. This clearly reveals water baptism because of salvation. Acts 11- 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? Matthew 3 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: 12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. 13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? Think on this without any preconceived ideas, in truth. I believe water baptism is required because of salvation, not for it. We know Cornelius and His family repented by walking in fear of God and salvation was given when they heard the gospel and believed. Then they were water baptized in Jesus name. I also am very much aware Peter was revealed that Gentiles are no different than the jews in Christ. One Lord, One faith, One baptism. What is the One Baptism? 22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. 23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
@@ProclaimeroftheGospelofJesus One has to always ask who is Jesus speaking too? Or having a conversation with. In the case of John, in Matthew 3, John was speaking to the Jews and about the coming of Christ. He was not speaking to the Gentiles. He was mainly addressing those Jews who Jesus would select to be His Disciples which we find out through the Gospels as well as in Acts1 and 2. These were the men to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Secondly, the Samaritans who had been baptized had not received one of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit until the Apostles came down and gave one of them to them. The Eunuch whom Phillip preached to knew that water was the key to his salvation. If it wasn't why did he stop the chariot when they came upon water. He said; “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?" If baptism was not needed for salvation then why did he have the chariot stopped? Your quote; "We know Cornelius and His family repented by walking in fear of God and salvation was given when they heard the gospel and believed." I am afraid you are wrong. They were a devout family but they were not granted salvation because they heard the Gospel. If this is true why did Peter say they could not hold water of baptism from them? They were already saved according to you. You are confusing one of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit that was given to them with the Gift of the Holy Spirit which can only be gotten by being baptized in water. Which is commanded by Jesus for salvation. You are misunderstanding Ephesians 4. Paul is not talking to the Apostles he is talking to the Church at Ephesus. It was written to the Jews and Gentiles to prove that there wasn't any difference between them anymore. Eph 4:3 being diligent to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you also were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. The theme is unity for the Body of Christ (the Church) The one Baptism is what Peter Preached on the Day of Pentecost. Which this knowledge came from Jesus himself. Your quote, "I believe water baptism is required because of salvation, not for it." If it is required, as you say, because of salvation, then if you don't do it how can you be saved. This is a requirement according to you. If you don't do this requirement; "Are you not in rebellion against Jesus?" From my studying of those in rebellion against God it has never worked out to good for the rebellious party (i.e. Korah's rebellion.).
Ephesians 5:7 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.....7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
I was raised in a missionary Baptist church. They thought more like some independent churches of Christ. Almost identical doctrines. Most churches of Christ and independent Baptist churches are different in the south compared to the north. I have been in many different independent baptist and churches of Christ. Seemed to me nearly all of them are different from the others.
The thief on the cross wasn't baptised, but he was assured that he would be in Paradise with Jesus... which wasn't Heaven, it is New Jerusalem and it wasn't the same day, and in fact that thief is still dead because the saved in Christ will not be raised from the dead until the second coming of Jesus the Christ and THAT is AFTER the last trumpte.
This is pretty damning to baptism being part of salvation. You’ll see a bunch of people twisting this into “baptism by desire” rather than saying that Christ Himself punched the thief’s ticket into Heaven. Baptism is not required by Scripture for salvation. It is the FRUIT of repentance and faith. Faith PRECEDES baptism, at least for believers’ baptism. We should still do it, because of the precedent set by the Bible. But this is not a Heaven vs. Hell issue.
Actually, no one knows if the thief on the cross was baptized or not. We don't know if he was a Jew or a Gentile, so it's only speculation to say he wasn't baptized or he was. However, during Jesus'earthly ministry, He had the power to forgive sins. The thief on the cross was before Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection, and before the Great Commission and the establishment of Christ's church. All of the New Testament conversions after Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection in the book of Acts involve water baptism, which is why the churches of Christ say it's necessary for salvation. You might have a different hermeneutic and exegesis, but according to the Disciples, baptism was necessary for the remission of sins.
@@me73941 Literally the most famous verse in the Bible says “whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.” Nothing about baptism in that verse. Acts 16, when Paul and Silas are asked “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”, shows them saying “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” It doesn’t say “Believe AND be baptized”. Peter’s message in Acts 2:38 was for the Jews who rejected Christ and killed Him by hanging him on a cross. They had special dispensation to repent and be baptized in Jesus’ name, since they rejected His name. The Bible is painfully clear that baptism is not a requirement for salvation in parts outside Luke 23. Knowing this, if he were baptized, the Bible would have said so, and would have indicated that it was part of his salvation. Baptism is a fruit OF salvation, not the cause of it.
@@borisvandruff7532 Yes, I absolutely love those verses! For they are the Word of God. However, Scripture was not originally broken up into verses, and we therefore have to read the whole entire counsel of God. When we examine actual conversions in the New Testament after the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, every single one of them involved baptism for the remission of sins. The conversion of Paul is especially significant in this respect. It's not prayer or simply faith that washes away our sins, it is the precious blood of Jesus Christ, and the Apostles made clear that it is through baptism that we contact the blood of Jesus and have our sins washed away. You have clearly never read the entire new testament. Jesus Christ Himself said faith plus baptism saves, Mark 16:16. And 1 Peter 3:21 makes very clear that baptism does in fact save us. Yes, we absolutely must have faith, but nowhere does the New Testament ever say that that is all we must have. In fact, the only time in the New Testament where the words "faith only" appear, James makes very clear that faith alone does not justify. Jesus Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all those who obey him, Hebrews 5:9. There's not a single instance of a New Testament conversion after the death, burial, resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ that does not involve baptism. We must have our sins washed away to be in Jesus Christ. How is that done? Is it through just having faith? Is it through prayer? No. The apostles made clear that it is through baptism that we contact the blood of Jesus and have our sins washed away. The conversion of the Apostle Paul is especially significant in this respect. Paul encountered Jesus on the road to Damascus. Jesus did not tell Paul to simply have faith in Him, Jesus told Paul to go into the city where it will be told of him what he must do. And Ananias came to Paul and said, "And now why tarriest thou? Arise and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." - Acts 22:16
@@borisvandruff7532 Another important example is the Jews who were baptized on the day of Pentecost. They had crucified Jesus Christ and were pricked in the heart, and they asked Jesus' disciples, "what shall we do?" "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" - Acts 2:38 To say the Jews on Pentecost had a special dispensation to be baptized is nowhere found in Scripture. Jesus said: "He who believes and is baptized will be saved..." Mark 16:16 "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience towards God), by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." - 1 Peter 3:21 Dear friend, to say that it's painfully clear that Scripture does not teach that baptism saves is not supported by Scripture. I would strongly encourage you to diligently study the book of Acts, often called the book of conversions. I'd be happy to provide you some good reference study materials if you would like.
The "evangelical" position on baptism has been clear for 2000 years: "Baptism...now saves you." 1 Peter 3:21. (See also: Mark 16:16, John 3:5, Acts 2:38-41, Acts 22:16, Titus 3:5, 1 Corinthians 6:11). Lutherans, the original evangelicals, have been affirming this for more than 500 years. Nowhere in scripture is baptism described as a "demonstration of one's faith". The trouble is that many who are now wrongly described as "evangelical" misunderstand baptism as something we do rather than the scriptural truth that baptism is what God does. And they have no biblical ground to stand on because their beliefs aren't based on the gospel. What must one do to be saved? "Repent and be baptized". Scripture is very clear. The so-called "regulative principle of worship" is completely wacko, but they're definitely right about baptism.
I agree with your baptism argument. I've attended both Baptist and Churches of Christ. The Baptist churches put very little emphasis on baptism (ironically). The Bible does not say "this is just a way to proclaim your faith, it doesn't matter much". No! It says "baptism of repentance, for the forgiveness of sins". It says "repent and be baptized". That's not a suggestion it's a command. Good points brother.
So if someone professes with their lips to put their faith in Christ alone to take them to heaven and in the process of waiting for baptism let’s say they pass away from heart attack or stroke and never got immersed in water , are they still saved or no ?
Now that I’ve concluded that he is Independent Baptist, here is my answer. James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, James 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
A response which is a sad testimony of someone who has no concept of the work of God in regeneration. Once you do only then will you understand what is meant by, make the tree good and its fruit will be good and all your righteousness is like filthy rags.
James is talking to Christians and telling them how one acts as a Christian is to exemplify themselves thru works. He does not they are unsaved at anytime. He says your faith is dead. You act like yr in the old flesh. And iif look closer its how one treats people. That you are to be kind to them.
...Ahhhhh???...well you see in that particular inspired inerrant Book of James) ...Works means Works- Works always means Works ...but "faith" doesn't mean Faith ..."only" doesn't mean (Faith)Only and "saved" certainly doesn't mean Saved...James is referring to the small "f'" faith-lite (which cannot save) and small "s" saved -lite ...which is nothing about being Saved ...there now see how simple that was ...now there are no contradictions with "Faith-Only" ...which is the New Testament's main theme...although the two words only appear together in James ...
@@michaelbarclay5016 ...You know...come to think of it...that particular parsing of James does ...sound a bit, arbitrary, disingenious, and doubtful..not to mention quite convenient ....hardly an interpretation "Justified" ...might be the precise theological term...particularly given the Context...
The CENI way of doing things might seem like it makes a lot of sense, but it is impossible to actually apply consistently: Do CoC people wear shoes? Shoes aren't mentioned in the New Testament, so shouldn't they only wear sandals? What about having electric lights in the place of worship? Shouldn't they be restricted to oil lamps? What about hymnals other than the Book of Psalms? They don't appear in the NT, so are CoC brothers and sisters going against the Bible if they use hymnals? What about personal or individual copies of the Bible, which didn't exist? You get the picture. To go as far as, "there are no musical instruments in the NT worship so having a piano is evil," but to not apply the same standard to every other aspect of life and worship is being highly inconsistent. I also always want to ask CoC people: "Was the penitent thief on the cross beside Christ doomed because he didn't get baptized?" And if anyone wants to answer that the requirement only applies to those who have a choice, remember that CoC doctrine states that the physical act of going into and coming out of the water *is* the very process and action of salvation. It's not just that God sees your obedience in baptism and therefore allows the grace of Christ to you. No, baptism *is* the very thing that makes salvation happen. So there is no room for someone to receive salvation if it is not physically possible to be baptized.
Baptism did not apply to the thief because it was pre-resurrection. Christ often absolved sin pre-resurrection and no one has a problem with this. Baptism is post resurrection and to receive the Holy Spirit. Which was the baptism John said Christ was going to perform. Additionally, the idea that baptism in the NT is a work, is a completely foreign to the text and is a gross misunderstanding propagated via Calvinism. The idea that the flesh, which biblically speaking is one-half of the soul, the other half being the spirit, takes no part in salvation and that salvation is purely some sort of subjective spiritual experience is Gnosticism. If baptism is only a public display of obedience, as many often teach, then making it optional is teaching people to live in open disobedience. It’s irrational and is a bigger burden then just listening to the teachings of Christ’s apostles as recorded in the NT.
@@aluminumchew , 1) I notice you didn't address the first section of my comment. Are you conceding that issue? 2) How were pre-resurrection saints saved (including the penitent thief) if, even post resurrection, baptism is a required element of salvation? Yes, Jesus regularly forgave sins during His pre-resurrection ministry. So? Is Him saying to the woman caught in adultery, "Your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more," to be taken to imply she was "saved" or merely that her specific sins were forgiven, but she was still fully responsible for her future sins just like everyone else? If she, and others like her, are to be considered *saved,* then this proves Christ is able to save without the person getting baptized. If she and others like her are to be considered *unsaved* with just specific sins forgiven, then how did pre-resurrection saints end up saved? Yes Christ took many righteous Old Testament saints up to Heaven as part of His victory over the grave, but did He stop on the way up and insist Abraham be baptized first? Abraham was judged as righteous before God because the faith of belief. This is what the New Testament teaches about Abraham. If Abraham eventually made it to Heaven (which surely he did) then he did so without ever getting dunked in water in formal baptism. So, likewise, the penitent thief who died pre-resurrection was in the same boat. He eventually made it to Heaven, but was never baptised. Thus, baptism is not a *necessary* part of salvation, even if it is vital to the obedience of one who is *already* saved and has an opportunity. 3) No one ever said baptism is "optional." There is a difference between saying that "baptism is not involved with the action of salvation itself but is necessary for obedience," and saying it is "optional." Do you think "Baptists" teach that the Biblically-mandated ordinance of baptism is an "optional" act? Do you suppose we teach that obedience to Christ is "optional" for the Christian?
What i read is that a person can become a christian/saved and lose it. For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, [and then have fallen away, to restore them again ]to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.. Heb.6:4-6
This scripture excerpt confirms once saved then lost. It is impossible to renew them again. The scripture refers to an unforgivable sin. Whomever puts his hand to the plow and looks back is not worthy of the Kingdom of God.
I don't know of any Church of Christ that make a women where a head covering. I think you are mistaken there. We are referring to uncut hair aka not shorn for women. Men can not have long hair either.
Independant baptist believe water baptism is required because of salvation only found in the work of Jesus baptizing us in the Holy Spirit, the washing of the water of the Word. Jesus is the living water and John said i indeed baptized you with water to repent for forgiveness of sins, but He that comes after me, He baptizes you in the Holy Spirit and fire. We believe water baptism is a example of what we have already put our faith in. The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. To be water baptized in His name is because we have repented and believed the gospel of Jesus. Peter made it clear with cornelius, how could i keep him from water baptism in Jesus name when He understood the Holy Spirit was poured out on them when they heard the gospel of Jesus for remission of sin. So repentance and belief was made known when they seen the gifts of the Holy Spirit in them as was with the disciples. In acts 11, Peter said, who am i to contend with what God did. He said He remembered what the Lord said, John baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit. Why did Peter make mention of this and remember this? Two reasons: That Gentiles are one in Christ with the Jews, and that we will be baptized by Jesus in the Holy Spirit. Many church of Christ deny this and say it was only for the chosen apostles and ignore this truth and put all confidence in water baptism fir salvation, rather than the baptism Jesus gives us, which is His blood cleansing us from all sin according to the washing of the Word of God( what God proclaims and we believe by faith) and the renewing of our Spirit by the working of the Holy Spirit given to us. A reborn Spirit. As a independant baptist i believe water baptism is very important and should be done because we are saved by Gods grace through faith, however i do not believe it is what saves us, only Jesus saves us because we repent to believe in Jesus. Titus 3:5
@@onthego41 Where is the scripture that says baptism doesn't wash away nor forgive sins and shows that a person is truly saved and want to follow Christ? Read Acts 2:38 and Acts 22:16 for the what happens is baptism.
The act of baptism is to demonstrate, express, show, or prove that we truly believed and not just by word because we cannot see the motive of the people. Anyone can claim they believe in Jesus or His teaching but later deny it. In context of the Jewish and Greecian, it is not enough that they agree on the teaching but wholeheartedly accept it that they are willing to submit in baptism to show their real intent. John the Baptist baptized those who truly repent. Those do not repent he rebuked to show fruit of repentance first. Everyone who got baptized trusted and believed Jesus and His teachings. It is a great deal to be baptized in those days. It means you are forsaking your religion and beliefs and embracing Jesus and His teachings. So when the verses showing "repent and be baptized" shows its in the context of repentance and believing Jesus and His teachings. It is never to be part of salvation but rather showing you accept the salvation and therefore you are repenting, believing, forsaking your old beliefs and going to the new way. That symbolized washing or cleansing and being new. We are saved by grace and NOT of works. Baptism is a work. Believing is inner working of the Holy Spirit. Our outward actions shows that there is change are praying, uttering our need to repent and baptism. In salvation all you need is mind that understand the message and heart (not physical) believe. So thief on the cross got saved without getting baptized. He expressed his belief and acceptance of Jesus in a different way. By confessing and asking Jesus.
One last point, water baptism joins you to the Bride, not to the Body. To not want adult water baptism is suspect. You might not lose your salvation, as being not baptized, but, it doesn't bode well for you because your unwillingness is most likely a form of disobedience. One thing water baptism doesn't do is unite you with the Body of Christ...only GOD does that work. Water baptism is a public and formal declaration and obedient change from following the world's ways, as a good Bride to be should behave, but, never forget, the Bride is engaged only, she is not yet not yet married. She is not yet One Flesh with the Person good and the Body of Christ. While Jesus will continue to woo His Bride and watch over her, she is meant to understand that the Body of Christ represents Christ on earth at this time. Does she? Rarely. The Bride often thinks herself a Queen rather than merely engaged to the King. Yup, Roman Catholicism and Protestantism alike, who follow Christ as long as they don't have to give up their wealth, status, power, Phariseeism or Sadduceesm. Sad, but, true.
The problem you speak of about Baptist is a VERY simple matter. "If it isn't in the most Holy Word of God Almighty it isn't OF or FROM God...period the end!" There is NO body of believers in the Holy Word of God Almighty known as Baptist, Catholic, Lutheran, or by ANY denominational name. If you wanted to join the body known as the Moose lodge and you did what it took to join the body of the Elk lodge would you be in the body of the Moose lodge? NO! They are BOTH lodges but they are different bodies, and so are ALL denominational bodies different from the body of Christ, which is His church. One body...one church. Christ's church, or simply The...Church...Of...Christ. the Church of Christ is not and has NEVER been a denomination. Find the name Baptist in the Bible...It isn't there. Therefore, the body of believers known as Baptist is not OF or FROM God Almighty, and neither is ANY denomination. Thank you for your time.
The Church of Christ teaches strictly from scripture... the final authority.... the bible says you must be baptized... you will not find anywhere in scripture where it says baptism is not necessary. Too many people attempt to intellectualize the bible... keep it simple, and follow it's commands. Baptism is not a work you do, it is something done to you for you.... repentance, true repentance is a work, and you can't be saved without it ... there is work to do... to believe only will not save you... (James 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead) . James 2:19 tells us even the demons believe... will they be saved? .... There is no way of escaping the need for works, not that they can save you, they can't, but without them you can certainly lose your salvation.... Matthew 7:21-23 tells us that you will not be saved without works, or by works... Jesus tells us if you say you know Him yet do not do as He commands you are a liar and the truth is not in you... you have a choice.... just read the scripture, and do as it says, or listen to some preacher who is in conflict with the scripture....
Warning. They are legalistic and do not believe in the INDWELLING Holy Spirit and certainly not the Baptism of the Spirit. Also, they insist they are the only ones saved. Some border on cult tendencies.
Many denominations believe as the Independent Baptist do. Baptism not necessary for Salvation and once in Grace always in Grace. However the Bible doesn't say that. When referring to the Day of Pentecost it is plain how one is redeemed. The next to the last step is Baptism by immersion. Here is the fact that Baptism, as being part of Salvation came from Christ himself on the Day of Pentecost. I refer to John 16 where Jesus is preparing the Apostles for His upcoming death. He said He would send the Comforter (Holy Spirit) to replace Him. The Holy Spirit would not speak for Himself but on what He heard Jesus say. Fast forward a few days. In Acts 2 when the Apostles were in the room a sound like a mighty wind came from Heaven and each of them were filled with the Holy Spirit. When Peter spoke on that day he was speaking for himself but what the Holy Spirit told him to say. So when we reference back to John and the very words of Christ regarding the subject of Baptism, Christ Himself said it was necessary for salvation. "Once in Grace always in Grace" Paul destroyed that idea in Romans 1. Not only did Paul say that those who practice those items were not going to make it to Heaven but those who support those who practice those things would not make it either. These things come from the very word of God. How can one interpret it any other way. It is blunt and for anyone to use different passages to say otherwise is taking them out of context. The final step in Salvation is obedience to the word of God which is the will of the Father. How does one no this? Read about the Churches in Revelation.
Having been in a church of Christ for 12 years, I haven't heard anyone teach that baptism for salvation is necessarily a *physical* requirement like if you are literally on your way to get baptized and died along the way, that God would reject you from Heaven. Rather, it's the necessary first step of faith to do it for the reasons scripture gives - otherwise the faith one may think they have is not a legitimate faith in Christ who attached all of these promises directly to baptism. The mere immediate pursuit of it is taught as necessary, not the physical arrival at it (because God is merciful to those that pursue His Truth), although if you are lenient on the timing of that pursuit of baptism rather than immediate, that may disqualify from having a legitimate saving faith. Hoping that clears up the position, and this was only intended to be informative, not argumentative.
I suppose I actually have heard from some very grumpy people the idea that "Well, God gave you time to repent and be baptized well before then, so if you were on your way and died, God would be justified in sending you to Hell!" but I feel this is more rare or at least reserved to some very hardheaded folks I've heard just a couple times. It's God's decision of who to save based on His own right to frame His terms however He says it is.
...in other words for the unBaptized but deceased ...CoC lets God be God ... but for the living and unBaptized ...it is a clear Biblical command necessary and most blessed...reserved for the truly faithful and repentant...
Vinson- My question is just as practical as it can be. Let's say a person on the brink of dying. Like an old person in hospice. He repented of his sin and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ as his Savior but died à short time moment after he proclaimed that he is repentant of his sin and understand that God loves him and sent His only Son to pay for his sin. Unfortunately, there is no water around to baptize him. Would he be lost and destined to hell for eternity?
Water baptism not necessarily in order to become save. The baptism every ones need it in order to become save is the baptism of the Holy Spirit in witch God Himself have to it , not our actions . Our actions can’t produce salvation, only God actions that’s count. May God give you understanding for His words 🙏🙏🙏
Great question: When Jesus hung on the Cross he was between two men also on crosses. We see throughout the Scriptures that the Father is in the dividing business. At Creation, darkness was divided by the sunlight as it still is today. The light was called day and darkness was called night. Jesus repeated that light and darkness lesson to explain good and evil in John 11:9. Here Jesus was between a good man and an evil man. He turned to the good man and promised him eternal life. The only water there was the living water that only Jesus can provide. In John chapter 3 Jesus said that we must be Born Again of the "Water" and the "Fire". Again we must drink the living water that only Jesus offered. At Pentecost, we read about the " Fire" which is the Holy Spirit. In the Book of John if read carefully it is clear the Father, Jesus, and the Spirit are to dwell on our temple (our entire body). The goal is to follow Jesus, the Father directed his words and actions. He listened and follow His Father's instructions for when, where, and what he was to do. Becoming a servant instead of being served. I must know how to follow Jesus first before I can be a faithful servant. A leader is a person that leads by example. Don't tell someone to do something. Invite someone to walk with you as they watch your example. Don't waste your time trying to become a great speaker. Read the Word of God in the Assembly. God has written the greatest love letter ever written to man. If a man preaches and stands holding the Bible and delivers his words what is he telling God? Answer: God you could have said this better? Or I can say it better? Do you carry your Bible to Church? Why? To look up 2 or 3 texts the pastor gives during a 40-minute sermon? Don't follow any man of flesh, follow Jesus and ask a Hebrew what the words faith and belief mean. It is not head knowledge that our Greek/Roman culture teaches us. These words compel us to do something. Hebrew is very focused on doing vs Greek is heavy on head knowledge. Let try to find the middle of the road. If there is water follow the example of Jesus. Pray for the Spirit and the Living Water to refresh you each morning. We need to eat and drink every day. Being Born Again is not graduation is begins 1st grade. The graduation comes when we see Jesus at the Advent. Blessing
The CofC and the UMC are birds of a feather. Two examples of what the Bible foretold would happen in the last days. They are both in the process of walking away and divesting themselves of core Christian doctrine and theology. Fast becoming nothing more than post-Christian social clubs.
You really did your research on this one. I never heard anyone who is not a member? of the CoC explain it so well. For the record I'm not a member of the Church of Christ although I was many years ago. Today I'm with a church that teaches primarily expositionally the books of the Bible in a series on Sunday mornings and Wednesdays. Besides the CENI method I believe many COC use inductive Bible study methods to have a more full picture of the text to teach from or study at home. But I do agree with what some folks here have said the one cup, or women wearing head coverings are a small group. For that matter I totally forgot about the small group of churches that practice head coverings. And I've visited some Independent Baptist Churches and for the ones I've been to they seem pretty well grounded in the Scriptures. I agree with using the Majority Text for a Bible translation, includes Textus Receptus, but also NASB and NKJV are a few more literal versions use that as well as the KJV. Add in the Modern English Version, a good translation don't let the word modern fool ya and there are no missing verses in these translations.
The lineage of the Churches of Christ is prophesied from Genesis 3:15, Daniel 2, Isaiah 2, Joel 2, Matthew 16:18, just to name a few. The Churches of Christ came into existence in Acts 2, and the Lord added those who were being saved, Acts 2:47. The Church of God, Acts 20:28, was purchased by the blood of Jesus, and is referenced as the Churches of Christ in Romans 16:16. Because the Church is an everlasting kingdom as described by Isaiah, there was no "restoration" of the Church. Alexander Campbell just planted the seed and watered. When God gave the increase, the Church belonging to Christ did grow. Know that Christ is the head of the Church, the savior of the body. Ephesians 5:23.
@@mikedolan9391 I've never been involved with the ICOC. I am a member of the Churches of Christ. Romans 16:16, Acts 20:28. I follow the apostle's doctrine. Acts 2:42. The Church preceded Alexander Campbell by nearly 1,800 years, and was present in america before is arrival. If my beliefs are similar to his, its because we're striving to follow the same book.
The Church of Christ is found in the Word of God (Romans 16:16). The Church of Christ is Christ's bride and wears no one else's name but Christ's (Acts 4:12). The Church of Christ does not believe that Jesus is a polygamist and he has only one bride (Revelations 19:7-8). The Church of Christ believes we should all speak the same thing and there should be no divisions (1 Corinthians 1:10). The Church of Christ believes that all Bible answers to all Bible questions need book, chapter, and verse (2 Timothy 2:15, 2 Timothy 3:16).
@@jimmycampbell6232 With all due respect, the CoC is a denomination like any other denomination. "Pre-denomination" is nowhere to be found in the Bible.
Rom 16:16 is not in the plural, call yourself what you want but if you add to or take from the doctrine then your're wrong. Division and arguing over a church isn't what I believe was what is intended at all. Unity, sound doctrine and faithfulness. So please forgive me if I came across in that manner.
I grew up in the Church of Christ he describes. Women can’t cut their hair or wear pants. One cup and one loaf in the communion. No Sunday school classes. I heard “speak where the Bible speaks and be silent where the Bible is silent” more times than I care to mention. Great videos.
I grew up in coc...I am now 61 and battling with the "brain washing" guilt, not good enough. My congregation had no preacher/minister...the men of the church rotated services. Did not believe In Sunday school or vacation bible school. Children attended services. We did go to multiply cups but one unleaved bread. Women may not speak. Constantly fire and brim stone. Never learned of grace, and really the live if jesus. And u follow the 5 steps, then do good and u never knew if u would go to heaven till judgement day. They are very judgemental having sermons about how other demonations are not saved. And of course divorce is a sin. And suppose to attend every meeting. Needless to say, the church I attended are dying. Old ppl dying and young ppl left. My family is strong in the church. If I bring up these topics, they say, it never happened or I misunderstood things. I raised my kids in the coc, they followed 5 steps. My son is never called in, bc we are considered backsliders bc we cannot attend their coc bc on the weekends we go to our farm ,but we do attend coc there. There are clicks we never belonged...remember 61yrs...and I could go on.
John's baptism is no longer valid (Acts 18:24-19:5). John's baptism paralleled New Testament baptism in the sense that both were for the forgiveness of sins. But John's baptism was transitional in nature, preparing Jews for their Messiah. Baptism after the cross is for all people (Matthew 28:19), in Jesus name (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 19:5), into His death (Romans 6:3); in order to be clothed with Him (Galatians 3:27), and added to His church (Acts 2:47); the one He purchased with His own blood; Acts 20:28). One does not join the church of ones choice; the Lord adds you to His church after one obeys the gospel. Jesus said "He who believes AND is baptized shall be saved. And he who does not believe shall be condemned" (Mark 16:16. Have you done what Jesus said? He asks "But why do you call me Lord, Lord", and do not do the things which I say?"; Luke 6:46. Note what needs to be done when Jesus is preached; Acts 2:38, Acts 8:35-39. Galatians 3:26-27 says "You are all children of God by faith in Christ Jesus, for as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." The words "put on" (NKJV) are a translation of the Greek verb enduo which signifies "to enter into, get into, as into clothes, to put on." Can we be saved prior to "putting Christ on" or "being clothed" with Christ? Of course not. But when and how does one put on Christ---according to Paul? When one is baptized in water. Those who teach we can be saved before baptism are, in reality, teaching we can be saved while spiritually naked and without Christ! Paul affirms that we "put on" Christ at the point of our baptism, and NOT before. Paul wrote these words to people who were already saved. They had been made "sons of God." But how? At what point had they "been clothed with Christ?" When were they made "sons of God?" When were they saved? Paul makes the answer to these questions very plain: they were united with Christ, put on Christ, were clothed with Christ---when they were baptized. Ask yourself if you have been clothed with Christ. Saul who later became the apostle Paul was told "Why tarriest thou? Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16).
Thank you so much for this video. My sister is part of the Church of Christ & my brother & I have talked back & forth with her for some time about this kind of stuff. When you brought up their ceni hermeneutic it all just lined up for me. Their rigid stance on so many things makes so much more sense now. Please be in prayer for her husband & herself to see the freedom we have in Jesus.
One of this is absolute truth and absolute false the Devil, Independent bible Baptist CHURCH, Still remain in the teachings of PAUL, i never go wrong with IFB, TRUTH OF GODS WORDS , DISPENSATION KJV ONLY BELIEVERS,, GOSPEL OF DEATH, BURRIAL AND RESSURECTION, GLORY TO GOD.
People say church of Christ is a cult. I still believe they are saved. I get why they only sing. Light shows and smoke machines trick a person into a sense of worship. But I think a barebones worship service with instruments would be okay. I’m not sure if they all believe that no one is predestined and only the people christ was talking about back then. But I certainly believe God predestined all who are saved. About falling away. Idk. Maybe I think once saved is always saved is dangerous and tricks people into thinking they are saved. But if they are truly saved, they will persevere
Even john the baptist said. Hes not the the one. He came from the wilderness saying prepare THE way of the Lord make. His path strait and the spirit sat on christ not john the baptist christ was crucified. Not john christ was on that cross. He purchase his church sith his own blood. Act. 20 v 28. its his 👰 bridej
John the Baptist simply mean. John the baptiser. He Didnt purchase any church. He wasn't crucified he spoke of The comeing of Christ. John even said. i indeed baptize u. With water. Unto. Repentance Buthe that cometh after. Me is mighter then i whose shoes shoes i am not. Worthy to bear matt ch 3 v 11
Baptism is the first Thing that, JESUS asks us to do after Salvation. If for some reason this is impossible, then The Shed Blood of JESUS has Saved a person Already !! Like the thief on the cross, by JESUS. Remember what JESUS said ? "Today thou shall be with me in Paradise"!
