As an Independent Baptist for many years and fairly familiar with the SBC, this video is right on the mark. I enjoy how the information is given without malice just laying out facts. Wonderfully done.
How do you think this guy knows so much about the cults parading as Christians? He even knows about real Christians. I think he is a front for some group.
@@ivanlee1087 He is IFB, but he has studied the other groups to understand them. Perhaps IFB's tendency to separate makes it susceptible to an attitude which he thought was unfair, and he thought finding out more information was in the interest of truth. I think he tries to be impartial to present the positions fairly, but his own beliefs are with the IFBs.
I'm got Baptist this year and my church is an Independent Baptist Church. I never felt more at home reading the word of GOD and hearing sermons that have changed my life and convicted me in ways that i cannot explain. I feel exited for the first time in my life wanting to share the Gosgel everyone. Great video!
@@petermermilliod1545 "Saying wine is a sub category of grape juice is like saying houses are a subcategory of building materials" Nah, more accurately (to make it congruent with my analogy) houses are a sub-category of buildings, not building materials. What makes these things sub-categories of the other is the distinction in form; Grape juice when fermented becomes wine, buildings when built for a family to live in are houses. I could also say your average pickles are a sub-category of a cucumber, and pencils are a sub-category of writing utensils.
What i was getting at is categories are more complex than their components. Wine is more complicated than grape juice (it consists of more parts and requires more time and effort), houses are more complicated than their components. I was trying to get at the idea that sub-catagory probably is the correct relationship between wine and grape juice.
@@petermermilliod1545 "What i was getting at is categories are more complex than their components. Wine is more complicated than grape juice (it consists of more parts and requires more time and effort), houses are more complicated than their components." Sure, that "more complicated"-ness is what I would argue is what makes something a sub-category of something else. For example, I might have a shape, but what kind of shape? There are different shapes that have different forms of "more complicated"-ness based from the founding concept. A house is a specific type of building, not a specific set of building materials. "I was trying to get at the idea that sub-catagory probably is the correct relationship between wine and grape juice." Alright
I see a lot of independent Baptists saying this description is right on the money. I grew up in independent Baptist churches but have been SBC for the past 20 years - pastoring an SBC church for the past 7. The information in this video is clear, concise, informative and spot on. I could not have said it better myself. It may have been wordier, but not better.
This is very accurate, I grew up in Independent Baptist Churches and Christian Schools and can say this is very accurate. I am thankful for my firm grounding in God's Word. I have since realized that much of the dogmatism is very harmful to the body of Christ as a whole. I still share many of the criticisms of the SBC, specifically the fear of liberalization and staunch opposition to Calvinism, but as I have grown older, I have come to understand you do not need to separate from everyone who dots their 'i's and crosses their 't's slightly differently than you. I grew up in more mild Independent Baptist Church's and love many of the wonderful people I know there, but I have heard of some pastor (never the pastors of the churches I attended) telling members out right that if you go to a Southern Baptist Church, do not even try to get them to send you a letter because they will not send a letter to a SBC church. So sad... I think we all could use a good dose of humility to say, "You know what, I am wrong sometimes, but have good intentions, other people probably are too."
Excellent video. Not being either an Independent Baptist or a Southern Baptist, I listened to (roughly) the first half of the video and wondered why they don't just combine, due to often having very similar practices and beliefs. The second half of the video highlighted the differences more, though, and some of them are pretty big. I now understand why they haven't combined and why they're not the same.
I might add that some independent Baptist churches border on being a cult. Look up domestic and sexual abuse connected with IBC congregations and pastors. This authoritarian attitude and rigid conformity is dangerous.
It really comes down to the independent churches being mostly of Scots-Irish descent, who are culturally very suspicious of bureaucracy, while the SBC, at least historically, was mostly of English descent and more culturally agreeable to bureaucracy.
As member of a small IFB church I will say no we don’t believe in the universal church, however we do believe people in other churches and denominations may be a Christian depending on if they believe the gospel as taught in 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4. We are not super strict in church attire, but do insist on modesty and reverence to God. Our church has multiple races and ethnicities and we welcome anyone to come. The joke is as long as you can listen to the sermon you can stay. Problem is people don’t like it when the sermon pricks their heart; but that is exactly what the sermon is meant to do. I love listening to Ready to Harvest and all the efforts he puts into his research.
Life-long independent Baptist, and I approve your message! If we (Independent Baptists) had a slogan it’d be “Leave us alone, we’re singing hymns, reading the Bible, and going home!”
Grew up SBC. My dad took his church out of the convention. I went to an SBC seminary and have stayed in the convention over 20 years now. Your material is wonderfully researched, and informative. Well done, sir
As someone who has faithfully attended a Baptist Church and has joined can honestly say that having the church being autonomous is the best thing. We can concentrate on hearing and preaching God's word and loving Jesus. No governmental body above us.
Spent 18 years/ grew up in an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church - KJV only, women only wore dresses or skirts, no contemporary Christian music, men in charge of everything in the church (men’s only church meetings), etc …. I think you summarized this nicely.
Great explanation, I am an SBC Pastor. I am a reformed, cessationist, Pretrib. Dr. Molher and I agree on most theological interpretations. I also have concerns with some of the things I hear coming out of the convention. There has been talking of Dr. Molher becoming the next President of the SBC.
The vote on CRT at the 2019 convention (resolution 9) was the final straw for me. The independent sounds closer to where I am, except the KJ only part.
My late grandfather was a Doctor of Theology, whose initial higher education was at one of the oldest colleges West of Mississippi and an ordained Methodist Minister. He found favor with the Lord as well as the United Methodist Church. He was allowed to be a Minister at an upscale church in California, however, he declined and chose to be a Minster at a poor church.
I go to an Independent Free Baptist Church. our Pastor uses the NKJV and is not opposed to the congregation using what ever version they are comfortable with. My wife and I came from the Calvary Chapel as did others I came to know in our Church. They are very welcoming to any and all and very family and children oriented.
I was raised in the SBC in the South when it was much more down to earth and biblical in theology. In the early 80's I moved over to the KJVO IFB camp. Having worshipped on both sides, I can see error and truth across the board concerning the spectrum of the Baptist faith. Fundamentalism started out right on target (1920's), but slowly drifted into (sometimes) extreme and often radical ideology. The rank and file IFB congregants are decent and reasonable/tolerant people, but the spread between the open-minded and the Steven Anderson cultists is vast. I have known several KJV Onlyists that were incredibly hateful and domineering, who prefer to see everyone else as hopelessly lost. It would be nice to find something in the middle of the Baptist range and that is accepting of the Reformed believers (like myself). The universal church is broad, and you don't have to be just like me to be a child of God.
I just graduated from an IFB Bible college, and I volunteer leading in music ministry in an SBC church. We are shockingly similar in doctrine to IFB churches in doctrine. My church, however isn’t KJV only like the college/seminary is.
I spent $59,000 at a SBC seminary to gaun a graduate degree but as a female, cannot be hired for anything but a children's ministry position. I'm now reinvesting in an M. Div with another denomination to pursue that call.
I am a Southern Baptist. Each church is autonomous, but to increase effectiveness to spread the Gospel we cooperate with other churches. We meet together one time a year. And we have local associations. Our focus is Jesus. I find independent Baptists to be rigid and do not believe anyone else is saved.
In Acts 15:21, James instructed the early followers of Jesus to listen to the laws of Moses be taught in the Synagogues. When have you ever heard of a Baptist church meeting together to learn the Torah from an orthodox Rabbis?
Independent Baptists are NOT a denomination. Every church is independent, there is no external hierarchy with authority over multiple churches. Independent means something.
Southern Baptist in the Philippines originates from US. also with other Baptist Churches with is not SBC. Maybe that what you are referring in the US as Independent Baptist. Coz here in the Philippines there are General Baptist, Fundamental Baptist, Missionary Baptist,Bible Baptist, Conservative Baptist there so on..and the missionaries are from US.
My church is a part of the SBC, and my grandma's church is independent babtist, and this video is pretty much spot-on accurate. I appreciate this channel so much for spreading accurate information. My church, like most churches in the SBC, is a part of the SBC purely for the wonderful mission work being done through cooperation, not because we agree with every church involved. My grandma's church is independent because of the disagreement in the SBC, and I can totally understand. They exclusively use the KJV, and I understand why, but I find that the ESV is just as good of a translation, if not better. Generally, most (meaning at least 60%) of Southern Babtists and Independent Babtists overwhelmingly agree with each other and hold the same beliefs. The differences between them do exist, but they are typically quite secondary.
Hi, just a small note; most independent Baptist Churches don't hold to landmarkism. There is a belief in landmarkism called Baptist Briders, meaning they believe only Baptists are saved, which is not biblical.
@@ReadyToHarvest really? It's what I had heard or seen though. Many have dropped support to missionaries because of a stance of taking a baptist bridism.
@@dievyan Most Baptist Briders essentially divide saved people into two categories: Part of the bride (i.e. part of scriptural Baptist church) or not part of the bride (guests at the marriage supper). So you can be saved, in their view, but not in the bride.
@@ReadyToHarvest -- That sounds similar to the Watchtower teaching about the saved being either the 144,000 who go to Heaven, and the remaining members of the JW religion who get to live on the New Earth.
I would argue that while there may be local church polity in the SBC, hiring decisions may run through the staff (pastors), with little real input from the lay people.
There are a lot of Baptist groups. Primitive Baptists came out of the Calvinist tradition. Free Will Baptists are as the name suggest are Weslyan like Methodists without bishops. And Southern Baptists straddle the fence between predestination and free will.
Makes me want to be known as something other than Baptist. "Let them be one that the whole world might believe." So ALL Baptist churches are Independent Baptists.
"Churches can even disagree with the convention openly" Well, I think that's a sentence that aged poorly considering the latest SBC conference on the issue of Saddleback etc.
You should make some videos showing the differences between the sects or denominations of the Latter-day Saints movement of Restorationist Christianity, we do have some big & small differences between our beliefs & teachings so a video or a series of videos covering the differences would be helpful.
That would be a good topic for Joshua, both the FWB movement in general and NAFWB which is the largest of the Free Will Baptist groups. My cousin in East Tennessee is FWB and many of the churches in her are of that denomination.
@@reedermh I spoke to a pastor of NAFWB he mentioned they are an association and not a denomination. Each church is individual and only pay for the association that helps with education, etc. They have no financial links. Still would like to see others opinion. I am not arminian or weslayan, but I do believe in conditional OSAS.
Ifb missions model is ridiculous. Missionaries taking 3-5 years to get to the field with only being supported $50-100 a month by each supporting church.
Baptist terminology Not found in the Bible Altar Call Age of accountability Total depravity of man Ask Jesus into your heart Rapture Invisibile church Clothed in the righteousness of Christ Accept Christ as your personal Lord and saviour Enthroning the Bible in your heart Personal interpretation of scriptures (1 Pt 2) Faith Alone (James 2:24) Scripture Alone (2Thess ) Celebtating Christmas Remembering Good Friday Celebrating Easter The Gospel is a 'simple message'
The fact that every other Baptist church in my valley has Calvinist preachers has made me consider returning to the IFB. If I can find one that doesn’t teach the KJV was directly inspired by God, which is a drastic departure from the historic doctrine of inspiration.
I know the SBC was firmly rooted in slavery and racism. This is a historical fact. I believe the IBCs are also rooted in racism and slavery although I am less sure of this. In any event, I am curious what either denomination is doing to help quell current rampant racism in the US.
Explain rampant racism. I see numerous racism coming from NAACP, BLM and many liberals just to name a few. Also, scripture should be taught-not feelings and secular issues without defined lines.
You're not independent until you break your dependency on god. I mean, really, guys. A thousand religions and tens of thousands of sects (two documented here), we have to admit that god's message has become a bit, shall we say, _garbled_. Still I wish you well in your quest to carry the true flame. Unless everybody gets to paradise, nobody does. Have fun in the afterlife, whichever way you go.
I hope you give yourself credit for the high-quality content you create. Whether speaking of Baptist church bodies, Anglicans in Catholicism, or Jehovah’s Witnesses vs. Christians, you do your homework well and lay out the information clearly and objectively. Thanks for all the knowledge you’ve disseminated to folk like me.
This is an excellent and accurate summary of our differences. I was in IFB Churches and Schools for about six years and have now been in SBC Churches and ministry for thirty-eight years. Having worked among both groups, I deeply appreciate your accurate and very helpful comments.
You really are great!!!! I have learn so much from your videos. What I love about your presentations is that they are totally unbiased. They are not given in a way to make one group look bad and another group great. Thank you very much!
Can you please do a video on the differences between Independent Baptist churches and Landmark Missionary Baptist churches (American Baptist Association)?
I grew up holiness movement and missionary Baptist church. The independent fundamental Baptist churches and missionary Baptist Churches believe that once saved always saved and and free will Baptist believe you can lose your salvation
It's very interesting that lately many Southern Baptist churches in Texas have dropped the word "Baptist" from their formal names - in both urban and rural areas. 🤔
Its bizarre but such a reality, good of you to notice...most seem to be becoming non-denomination or at least vague, you'd never know if they were even Baptist or not anymore. I wonder why - unless they are trying to distance themselves specifically from being Baptist or associated with it? Seems to be the case For me, I've become very disillusioned and frustrated with how vague and watered down the SBC and similar denominations are and in how they are teaching and approaching Scripture so I am looking for a more liturgical and traditional expression yet I still dearly hope the best for the SBC
They're doing what Baptists do best, which is diffusing their worldview. Ask your evangelical and nondenom friends what they believe about a specific point of doctrine, and you'll get ten different answers; but talk for long enough to a sufficient number and you'll perceive that, almost to a man, they have the same preferences, attachments, scruples, expectations, assumptions -- all inherited (and diluted along the way) from Baptist-ism. Only us Catholics are better at forming our laypeople's religious instincts and worldview, and at creating the wider culture's understanding of what "real Christianity" is, than Baptists are.
I attend an Independent Baptist Church. The pastor is anti-Calvinist and I assume most of the congregation is. I am a Calvinist, but I don't discuss it with the pastor and I don't want to get into any arguments with fellow church-goers over it, so I keep quiet about my beliefs on that.
Does it affect your worship? I left an IFB because I went kind of “cage-stage”, but looking back I wonder if I made the right decision. We were close with the people there.
The duplicity of the SBC is demonstrated most eloquently with the "non-leadership" leadership assertion that the SBC is "not" hierarchical while the "cooperative program" clearly demonstrates to the contrary. And, where vast amounts of money coalesce so too does corruption, and this has been clearly demonstrated during the 2021 SBC convention. Maranatha!
We’ll done! I love the unbiased way in which you present these positions and, from my years of experience and study, I also find your detailed synopses to be very accurate. Please keep up the good work. BTW , I am an independent Baptist.
This video speaks to a problem with polity in some Southern Baptist churches. A pastor friend of mine was ousted yesterday in a very close vote (a margin of less than five people). He claimed that there were many people voting who did not attend regularly or give, and it would have been enough to sway the vote. Do independent Baptist churches allow this?
Usually someone zeros in on a particular distinction and uses it to create a division that shouldn't exist. The two main essentials that exist are that Jesus is the Son of God and that He gave His life to make the only way possible to be reconciled to God. We are part of one body. Alas, you are spot on the ways we differ from each other.
I have been a member of 2 independent fundamental baptist churches and can say that this is for the most part spot on. We can range from pastors having complete and total authority to voting congregations. Since vivid we have seen our church gain a multitude of visitors. Mainly because we still had services while others were shut down by the denomination. I guess that makes us independent fundimental stubborn Baptists.
The description would include those that call themselves Independent Fundamental Baptist, Unaffiliated Baptist, and those who are Independent Baptist and reject the Fundamentalist 'movement'. There are very few Independent Baptists in the USA that would not fall into one of those categories.
SBC: Hierarchy is hierarchy by any name. Call it what you want, but if a large body is defining what it is orthodox they are going beyond congregational agreement on doctrine regardless of the degree to which they do it. It may not be an episcopal structure but it certainly has those overtones. I don't think it is entirely a bad thing; it limits the degree to which an individual pastor can go awry even if it lacks the technical authority to censure or remove him. SBC has powerful influence over its members.
Excited to see some of your research on Seventh day adventists in the near future! I have a friend whom is a part of that movement, I am in disagreement with that movement myself.
@@ericespinoza373 *Former Seventh-day Adventist Pastor Exposes the Lies & Intentional Deceits of Ellen White & the SDA* CAnswersTV ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-umBu2OvAZnk.html
@@ericespinoza373 *Truth About Seventh-Day Adventist "Truth?": A False Gospel of Imperfect Law Keeping to Earn Heaven* CAnswersTV ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7EsY1srHYJc.html
I was in different IFB churches for about 25 years. Then a Missionary Baptist, associated with the Southern Baptist. You have captured the characteristics very well. And not in an emotional manner. Good job.
I think the summary statement that "Most Southern Baptists agree with Independent Baptists but the Independent Baptists view fellowship with them as a form of compromise." Is absolutely accurate. I live in the Rural South and there are plenty of SBC Churches that agree doctrinally with my IFB Church but we don't fellowship with them because we are very much separatist by nature.
I live in Canada. There is a perception in Canada that Independent Baptists in the USA are so fiercely nationalistic that they have a romanticized uncritical view of American history. It is one thing for Americans to believe that the USA is the greatest country in the world but certainly men such as Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson were not godly men.
@@johncantrell9993 Independent fundamentalist Baptists believe in separation. They do not fellowship with liberals and unsaved people in liberal churches. Yet they praise men such as George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Paine. I have even read some fundamentalist Baptists praise Washington as a great Christian man when he was probably a deist.
The agreement is generally on main points of doctrine (Biblical authority, the Trinity, the Person of Jesus). The differing is on cooperation with other churches via denominational structures.
@@ReadyToHarvest Doesn't he fall under an even more exclusive group the "new" independent fundamental baptists. I think they are anti- repentance too from what I have seen. He has some kind of "repentance black list" website.
@@ReadyToHarvest What were Independent Baptist churches a century ago before they knew of Dispensationalism? What do modern Baptists think most Baptists through history were?
Isnt the big difference that Southern Baptists and Independent Baptist have a different interpretation of what the saving gospel is. Specifically the role of repentance.
There are people with both views on repentance from both Independent Baptists and Southern Baptists. Most Independent Baptists and Southern Baptists would view those in the other group as not teaching damnable heresy., e.g. that those who follow their teachings can be saved.
As a Baptist, I love this comment. It's very true. That's one of the main points about being a Baptist. No one can tell you what to believe, so every congregation is essentially its own denomination.
@@patquint3291 , Yes, in heaven, everyone will be part of the Universal Church. (Catholic literally just means one, universal) I have no reason to doubt you will be there. But does not your supposedly "catholic" doctrine say that I wont be? And why? Because I deny Francis authority that Peter never claimed, hold to the standard of doctrinal truth given by Paul, and put my faith solely in their Lord and mine Jesus.
@@patquint3291 I agree-How can anyone, who is a fundementalist, and Bible believer can read where Christ (not acting as Jesus) says."This is my Body" and "This is my Blood" can deny the actual presence is beyond me.
I was raised in the southern Baptist Church. I went to college for a music degree hoping that I would be able to be a minister of music. I don't know what I was thinking. Once I did graduate with my music degree, I was told that, as a woman, I could not be a minister of music, but it would be okay if I led the children's choir. That did not go over well with me and I subsequently eventually went back to school to be a doctor and that's what I'm doing now. 14:12
Once a pastor losing his sight as God's undershepherd, and starts lording over God's heritage.....introducing Commandments of Men & Traditions of Men.....petty practices to differentiate one IFB tribe from another IFB tribes....under the name of SEPARATION from worldliness
Our Director of Missions has said that often Southern Baptists are more independent than IFB!-- Joshua did mention that SBC does believe in the local church atutomony, however, local associations, as well as a State Convention can remove a local church from fellowship if the the local or State believes that the local church has went "too far out of bounds" Not saying it happens often, but it can.
Lol why does my family never get along at church? Why do we go to 4 different places in an extremely low pop area? ….. what type of Baptists are we? rofl
Well done presentation. In the area I live, IFB churches tend to adhere to a more strict dress code and hair code for men and women. ie, very short hair for men, long hair for women, dresses only for women (no pants). The SBC teaches clothing modesty but leaves more wiggle room - there are no hard rules on what exactly one should wear or the length of hair. Of course, your experience may vary depending on where you live or the church you attend.
this i been prayn bout; yet, what if they pledge the flag in the sanctuary? this was sbc... (i would love your God given wisdom. i still need a house of God to worship publicly.) thank you. ps: thank y'all for your publication...
