@@Mystninja a cross is a universally human, relatable icon, usually linked to power and institution. the juxtaposition of the word independent always struck me as interesting from a young age, and watching this video at 33, I dig that it seems to mock the institutions who choose to use the power of these visuals to repress the weak. This is the counterculture, the essence of skate culture, something only someone who has spent time provoking security guards and challenging the establishment can understand. all wrapped up in a bow
@@DFunct905 The swastica is an ancient symbol with thousand of years, Egyptians used them in the pharaoh times for example. And it is still used in some asian religions. If anyone outside those religious groups uses that symbol publicly with the idea that it is just a few thousand years old and it's ok to wear it, that person is showing its lack of several things, context, intelligence, common sense and History knowledge among others. Or is a nazi apologist.
I’ve got the Independent Cross tattooed on my arm. It’s surrounded in flames and says “Life or Death” under it. Every time I look at it, I think of my many great friends that I grew up with that skated, rode, and chilled with me. A few of them have passed away, a few of them went to prison, and a few of us have been hard working men, providing for our families. Anytime we all get together for a reunion, we’re those kids again for a few hours….carefree like all those years ago when we were kids/teens. That’s what that cross means to me. At 39 years old, you wish you could have those days back, but you’re glad that you had them 💪🏼🤘🏼🤙🏼
Fun fact: modern tanks in Germany have the Bundeswehr cross. That's acceptable and therefore so should this. But everybody has got to make a big deal out of it. They should find something productive to do instead of complain and try to cancel things.
I´m from Germany running on Indy´s for more than 25 years or so, got couple of shirts and Hoodies. I can confirm that it definitely reminds of the iron cross but to me nobody ever said a word about the logo though. And Nazi Symbols (like the swastika for example, which they stole from India, like they stole the Iron Cross from the crussaders) are forbidden by law in Germany. So you can be sure if it were an issue and would offend someone, all skaters in Germany would knew about it and wouldn´t wear it. (espesially because Skaters and Nazis don´t get along really well....Hell you couldn´t even import it without getting trouble. So stick to the Logo and tell them to shut the f up
100% Leave it alone. People/companies need to stop surrendering to every social whim. People are flaky and follow others blindly. Stick with what is true to you and your company.
The fact they literally covered this issue in its beginning, and "it's good enough for the Pope" covered it -- I think this should be all they need to say now, again. Screw the virtue brigade! they're closer to Nazis than Indys ever will be
@@mr.eternel583 also it’s not a ducking nazi cross, it’s an iron cross which is a German military medal that has been awarded for hundreds of years before nazis existed
18 years ago I got the Indy cross tattooed on my elbow. A year latter I got stabbed by an african American man because he thought that I was a Nazi. I am completely and utterly anti fascist and that tattoo although I didn't realize how bad an idea it was at the time almost cost me my life. If someone felt strong enough about it to murder me over it it has to go...sorry guys.
...I am Native American mixed with white and became a SHARP in 1992 after having a hand full of run ins with white power groups who bullied me because they thought I was Hispanic. I'm the furthest one could be from a Nazi.
So there we have it. It's been explained by the man himself Jim Phillips that it was based on a biker gang logo that they then altered to look different to the iron cross. There is no need to change the logo. Its been there from the beginning. Its an iconic skate logo that has been there thru the decades of our favourite addiction & should remain so. If you're seeing the Nazi Iron Cross within the Indy logo then maybe you've either got too much time on your hands, you see evil in everything you experience (oh what a fun person you are to be around!😂), or you have an unhealthy obsession with Nazism yourself maybe 🤔. You do also realise that Thunder trucks logo contains both a grenade & the SS lightning strike, & that 1 of those new Indy design logos looks like the child lover pattern that paedos use. Well, it does if all you see is evil everywhere! 😂
What? Thunder Trucks' logo doesn't contain the SS lightning strike... It contains a singular lightning bolt, which is actually similar to what the U.S. Army Special Forces Command (Airborne) personnel wear on their sleeves.
@@pbakai182 oh I agree mate. But it seems as though some people are going out of their way to find things which aren't offensive & become offended these days, & now that Indy have given in & changed their logo to appease these people, then these same people will look for other things which don't represent evil & see them as evil in order to get them changed. So if you were to think like they do then the lightning strike could seem offensive & the Thunder grenade logo to some would be "inciting or condoning war & violence" 😂. It's a slippery slope, & Indy is just the beginning imo
I hope they stand their ground and not budge on changing the logo. Its near and dear to alot of us and could be damaging to their brand if they cave to the pressure. Hell alot of us have it tattooed on our body. To change it would be a huge betrayal to the skateboarding community and what we stand for.
It’s very close to being something very racists tho. It’s about time to update and change. I’m not a fan of wearing the logo as it feels very weird. It’s a weird one to make my mind up on
@@ThomasMcCleary ya I’ve been there too but u gotta realize that the nazis don’t define the iron cross. That shits been around for years but it’s definitely a fine line for sure. Shoulda kept it imo
I served in the U.S. Military. When we qualified at the shooting range, we got an Iron Cross. I assume this practice has been going on long before the Nazi's ever existed
@@tooskidavis3733 I'm not, just saying that just because Nazi's used some shit doesn't mean that they invented it, and the symbol probably existed long before they did. You empower by giving power. And for the record I ride Ventures, because I can't find Grind Kings to save my life
I can’t be the only person who had never seen an iron cross before the indy logo. They successfully reinvented an image and took some power away from that dark piece of history. But now that’s undone to appease a bunch of people who probably never would have bought your product anyways.
Agreed -- but I knew the iron cross from various sources, not just Nazis. Nazis stole all their symbols pretty much -- time to take 'em back indeed. The swastika especially, is an important and meaningful symbol that needs to be rebranded back to its origins. Are you one of the ppl that didn't see the Mexican wrestler running through the shop at the end too? lol
even if it was the iron cross, it is nothing to be offended. It isn't related to nazis in any way, it's a military medal which has been aroun since 1800, it has nothing to do with hate or other bullshit... Karens need to find better excuses to cancel stuff..
@@matteo4908 Karens are teleologically more similar to Nazis then the people wanting to cancel the logo for its references to Nazis, so your comment is just a little inaccurate
@@boejudden9011 the problem is that it isn't a nazi logo, it has been around for 200 years, and even if it was a nazi logo invented in the 1940's it doesn't mean that by putting it on something like a skateboard truck you want to resemble to nazis
It's now time to get your vaccine mask up and sit in your room freedom is disappearing quick if you don't stand up now every thing you love and cherish like skateboarding and surfing will change big time. They have already shut down beaches and preventing you from entering the water. If you all just talk about it on RU-vid without action and stop these Karen's. Skate boarders need to stand up and stop all the bull that's going on. Because if you enjoy it, they will stop it. Welcome to the future. I'm glad my child hood was the 70's. I will be displaying my Indy logo proudly on my car rear window
@@chrisshaw2754 same. I love(d) Indy. I have friends that work at NHS and have so much Indy gear and random things like blankets, rugs, mirror, a cigar, etc.... now it will just be memorabilia. They were the punk, fuck you trucks and now they are they soft, let’s not offend anyone trucks. Can’t respect them anymore. It’s like they got neutered. Never thought I’d see the day.
The indy cross is so iconic it DOES NOT need to change. Just because two people got mad (who probably don't even skate) doesn't mean they need to change it. When did skateboarding get so soft?
RE: the Iron Cross The Nazi army also used an image of an Edelweiss flower for some of its insignia. I guess grandmothers everywhere need to dig that flower up by its roots and purge form their gardens, lest anyone get the wrong idea.
If INDEPENDENT sells out to cancel culture and changes their logo that literally contradicts their name and independence....and I will return to Venture
Wtf that 🐂💩. I've been sk8ing independent trucks for over 30 years now! All these close-minded people need to stop looking at everything without knowing the history. Not everything in this world racist😠
Yeah like 15 Maybe 20 years ago I remember learning about the Nazis and seeing all their symbols and I was like holyshit that looks just like the independent logo. Still I think the world's gotten a little bit too PC.
Yea but in this circumstance in the beginning they thought the logo looked “a bit Nazi” and Jim had to actually convince them to use the logo! Were they to PC back then as well!? or did the logo always look kinda Nazi and it still looks kinda Nazi and they are just going back to their original opinion of the logo. And maybe they don’t want to continue to use a logo they always thought was a tad Nazi! (Even if Nazis don’t own the iron cross and that wasn’t his inspiration for the logo)
If you bend a knee to the whiners that will ALWAYS find something to be offended by now,it will never end,I promise you.... especially when you know in your heart you never had any ill intent to begin with....huge mistake. I wear my bright red Indy jacket with a huge Indy cross on the back proudly and will continue to do so.....their web page has a disclaimer explaining themselves about the logo and they changed the damn thing anyway to appease some people that most likely don't buy their products anyway....Indy bowed down and bent the knee....they are no longer in control of their own company,the PC police are.
The German nazi's abused the Maltese Cross. The Knights of malta used that symbol much much earlier. Same with the swastika, much older than nazi Germany. I guess you saw ' truck wars' Love letters with Jeff Grosso. Lols.
Iron crosses are not a World War II nazi symbol. It’s a symbol used in German/Prussian culture. Iron crosses were awarded in WW1 and even before that. It was a symbol used on the German empire flag. Yes, the nazis did come and use the symbol as well and marked it with a swastika. I think it’s our lack of education in culture and history that always causes us to link the German culture/people with nazism. However, I do get that most people will always tie the nazis to that symbol as they were the last to use it in Germany. It leaves me agreeing with both sides of the controversy. I feel like Indy did the smart thing business wise for themselves, but philosophically it feels like submitting to the boneheads and neonazis who think that they are using the symbol correctly/continue to desecrate it.
I'm 44 and when I was 20 I got an independent tattoo in the center of my back. Do I have to worry about people thinking I'm racist? I'm not and I love everyone! The only reason I got that tattoo is because I loved and always rode independent trucks and wanted a reminder of all the fun and pain I went through becoming a fairly good skateboarder. Let me know what you guys think, thanks!
In the US Army we still use the Iron Cross for "Bolo Badges" that includes marksmanship and grenades. So they shouldn't change it at all. Nazis take everyone's symbols. Recently the 👌 OK, in the past it has been Skinhead dressing style, Oi! Music, and if I thought anymore I could list a bunch more. Don't change because of Nazis. I think Independent should start a campaign calling Nazis out on their garbage instead of bowing down to PC garbage. In a subtle way, not overtly. "Never sway to the unjust!" - BAD BRAINS
Me too didn’t realize until I stumbled on this video recently going to be tossing my independents as soon as find something to fit my Powell Peralta Ripper it’s a wide board so the Indys were the best fit the skate shop had for my board
That’s crazy talk! Who wants to change the logo??? If you know it’s not associated with anything bad then why change it??? I can understand if it had a bad history but they even changed it a bit so it wouldn’t look so bad 🤦🏽♂️
I always knew the intention was certainly not racist but I would never wear the clothes because I was worried it would be easily misinterpreted. I actually even think the trucks look a lot nicer now without the logo and have returned to indies recently because they just feel the highest quality of all brands I've used.
I dont think looks like the iron cross but i do know that when i attended venice high in the mid 90s about of the racist white kids had a bunch of indie truck patches along with their swastika patches
I can't believe cry babies on Twitter got Indy to ditch the most well known skateboard brand Logo of all time. Definitely lost some respect for them when they caved in for no reason at all.
Well happily for me, the Stage XIs I got at the end of last year were old enough stock to still have the logo. My board doesn't look right without the Indy cross on the trucks. I'll just buy vintage ones in future. I was looking for another pair of Stage VIIs but I needed some in a hurry and so I thought I'd try out the 11s and they're much better than the 8 and 9 were, I still marginally prefer my S7s tho. The diamond logo sucks by comparison. The old logo was tough, the new one is just bland. No feels associated with that diamond, but I have a ton of feels for the rounded crusader cross. Snowflakes don't skate anyway, so why bother to bend to their whims? Independent was never a fashion label the way some brands became trendy, that's one of the reasons I have so much independent clothing. It's a brand skaters recognise but few others do, and Indy fans are hardcore for life. Plus I always liked their simple design aesthetic. I've got a few hoodies that are just plain black with different colour outlined crosses on the back, and I've got a few pairs of mid 2000s Indy skinny jeans lol. Along with a whole load of t-shirts and other assorted bits. I'm gutted they bowed to the pressure, but it'll make no difference to me, I'll still be wearing stuff with the old logo for the next 35 years, just like I have been for the past 35. Skaters support core brands, and unless skaters are moaning about a core brands image, leave everything as it is. IDGAF what non skaters think about my skate wear or hardware. I'm not riding for their pleasure, nor am I wearing my choice of logos for their pleasure. I wear what I like and I ride what I want. As much as I'll always support Indy as a manufacturer, I'll buy less clothing in the future as I just don't like the new diamond logo. It's a lot better than that ugly as shit swirly one though, even I'll admit!
Originally the iron cross was a military award given by a bunch of European nations in the 18 hundreds which is well before nazi time. Ya it’s associated with nazis but it’s not nazi itself it’s originally just a Medal of Honor. Don’t let nazis ruin that shit for skaters cuz that shits iconic
Wait is it offensive to wear an iron cross I have a ring with the iron cross on it, it doesn’t have a swastika on it or anything tho. Should I not wear it?
The swastika wasn’t always an odious symbol of hate. Far from it. The word is Sanskrit in origin and means “conducive to well-being.” was used by many cultures, everything the Nazis used is doomed no matter which previous purpose it had. www.britannica.com/story/how-the-symbolism-of-the-swastika-was-ruined
It’s offensive to people that are utterly useless and unworthy of any consideration. If you like it wear it. Don’t be a limp wristed pussy like independent truck co
But they were sensitive about the logo to!! You didn’t hear he said that Jim’s logo was declined because it looked “a bit Nazi” they were definitely not Gen Z
I'm soooooo tired of these easily offended Woke snowflakes, who do nothing else but look for reasons to get offended. It's so sad to see the skate industry bowing down to Woke pressures in every way. Shame on Indy for giving in!!! The going against the grain true spirit of skateboarding is dead .... so, so sad to see!!!
They should NOT change the logo, it is not only iconic at this point, but they can't unring that bell, it's been what it is for so long. I have reped Indy for 30+ even though I never fully skated (got passed the early stuff, just didn't really have the knack) but along with trucks they also made the best axles for big trail riding. I am a product of SW PA and lived and died Trail riding BMX, and Perigrine Super Pro 48's with 15mm solid chromo indy axles was my weapon of choice.
Well they did. Fucking clown company. Nhs is destroying everything they own and spit on the skate culture. Same thing happened to santa Cruz. They all sold their souls
@@doomguy4486 It is pretty disappointing they changed the logo. I just bought a new set of Indy 144's and there's no cross logo on the baseplate. Which is better than putting some lame new symbol on them. Not all companies on NHS have sold their souls. I'm still gonna skate Independents and I'm still gonna skate OJs and Slimeballs wheels. Why the fuck would I want to skate Thunder trucks and Spitfire wheels?
Ive been praying for an episode on the shuv-it blank decks I used to ride that I can’t find anymore 🥺 they were perfect and cheap back in my day. I wouldn’t ride anything else. They had the best concave and shape that I wish still was around 😕 pleeeeeeeeeease do an episode on SHUV-IT decks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Iron Cross was created as a military decoration of the kingdom of Prussia in 1813. The Nazi party was fonded in 1920 and Hitler reused it in 1939 as a German decoration (rather than Prussian), 126 years later ..... History can help a little sometimes.
Shame on Independent for changing their Logo & bowing to pressure most likely not from the Skate Community! What happened to the Old Hardcore Punk Ethos that the company & modern skating was founded on? Built To Grind??? 1978 - 2019 R.I.P.
