Individualism vs Collectivism: Why it Matters in the Classroom 

Well, individualism can indeed make the collective stronger and that individualism is the leader of collectivist people. A leadership characteristic can overlap with some of the aspects of individualism. But let's not forget that an individualism leader is not good for collectivism because it's very dangerous. An individualism would only process with his own goals and can use collectivism for his own gains. In my opinion, I think the video was one-sided. The key point should be that it would be good to have a balance of individualism and collectivism.

Bad individualism yes youre right, naturally leads to capitalism which is purpose-less but like franklin said ‘he who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither

I am not sure people really understand what a collective (hive) culture really is. I am a westerner living in Indonesia, one of the most collective cultures in the world. Let me warn you, it is all a lie. Who do you think runs a collective society? The collective people with in it? Collective societies are not places where all people are equal. It is a culture that is driven by a strong pecking order that must be respected and anyone who falls out of line in this pecking order will be punished severely. This punishment can range from public shaming, shunning, torture, all the way to death. Here in Indonesia there is a larger gap between the wealthy and the poor. At first it may look like it just revolves around ethnic groups as the Javanese people rule over all the other groups. This part was achieved through acculturation after the 1965 genocide when Suharto moved groups of Javanese people around the country and place them in control of local economics and resources. The other ethnic groups had to surrender all power to them and obey or die. The other groups figured they would marry their prettiest daughters into the Javanese groups (the BIG family) to try and regain some of their lost wealth and power. The Javanese countered this tactic by arranging inter marriages with in their own families. after the fall of Suharto in 1998 things only got worse as the groups began to fight amongst each other for power over the country. The police executed most of the military leaders to secure power. To this day the police family runs the country from behind the president. The entire country is run on bribery and corruption. It is very important for people to be polite while being discriminated against. Respect and politeness to the leaders of the groups s the most important thing. This also goes for the millions of slaves here, the majority of whom are children and men. In all collective societies there is a leader who rules over the group. You will never know who it is until you are initiated into the group, usually through marriage, were it is then dictated to you firmly with a smile. Your will is the will of the leader.

​@Tim Bugge Young Westerns romanticize about creating a collective society because they are individuals. This is because they are not constrained to the will of a master as people born in collective societies. People of collective societies are born that way and they cannot be changed, it is a genetic trait that is passed on from one generation to the next. It is okay if you think I am wrong about the genetics. However, you can research Robert Sapolsky, who is a neuroendocrinology researcher and behavioral scientist at Stanford University, you can learn about this with his full course that was upload on youtube. Before I came here I never heard much about collectivism. It was something very few people had any knowledge of or ever inquired about, let alone, studied.This is what I have learned first hand about these people in Indonesia though marriage. In a nutshell collectivism is not communism. It is the rawest for of natural fascism. Joshua Oppenheimer who made two documentaries here, The Act of Killing and The Look of Silence, stated that Indonesia today is actually what Nazi Germany would be today if hey won the war. Nationalism is extremely high here because of collectivism. If you came here you would see them a very quiet and polite people. But that is because you are nothing but a tourist spending money (example: Bali). They do not hate white people, they hate our mindset and independence. As for black people, they just hate them as much as the Chinese, and openly call them 'Monyet" (Monkey) in public. Everything here is owned by the top competing Javanese groups (families), who run the government from behind the scenes. Speaking in an ill manor towards a group leader will get them kicked out of the family and shunned until they beg for forgiveness. If ill speech is directed at the government they will be imprisoned indefinitely,if they are not killed during their arrest. Law and justice is bought and sold here like any commodity. They are either born a leader or born a slave. There is no in between. The mass majority of people in a collective society believe that independence is a sign of mental illness and people here convicted as mentally ill are severely abused here. Believe me or not, the woke leaders in the west are misleading people to summit to their will in order to create a society like Indonesia. I have been trapped in Indonesia for more than 3 tears now, no passport of visa as the Canadian government revoke my passport and had me cancelled. In all of my life I have paid my taxes and never once broke any laws. If they did it to me then how many other people has this been done to? If you don't believe it is worth fighting Wokism to the death, then you are a fool, because it is do or die. Life in a collective hive culture is worse to death!!!

Freedom of expression without purpose does not exist unless if I've misunderstood you, at worst it gets to stupid schizophrenic banter or jokes; either one will work well to show how a person is. Another thing is that individualism doesn't make unions and whatnot to be bad as long as it stays as a union of individuals

​@@thebuggemansome people get so deep into theory that they ignore real life

Just wait until collectivism takes control. People attending college can't go for that trashy 'Gender Studies' degree because the 'collective group' needs engineers, teachers, and doctors more than an LGBTQ activist. In class, if you study hard, your grade is averaged out so that the individual that didn't work at all can pass. At work, those who bust their rear ends have to be 'team players' to cover down on the lazy ass that thinks they are entitled. Its coming...Glad I'm old.

Collectivism says if you are the only one doing all the work in a group project, you should just smile and go with it. Also if you are not particularly popular or are introverted, collectivism will hurt you because social relationships are far more important. Being socially isolated is worse in collectivism compared to individualism. It also discourages whistle blowing. You are expected to lie with the group no matter what horrible things it is up to. Government corruption is a major problem in collectivism. If your dad is involved in crime, you'd be expected to aid and lie for him. If your family doesn't approve of your lifestyle choices and especially of who you date or associate with, you are expected to comply. This is especially toxic if prejudice is the underlying motivation. Ultimately, in collectivism, you are forced to live under far more control and scrutiny. Collectivism inherently clashes with trans idology because, if you notice, trans people insist "I identify as this way. I define myself. Not you." It's why the trans movement hasn't taken offf as much in the reat of the world as it has in the usa. In collectivism, the group defines you, not the other way around.

@@shawnclement9242 most of things u mentioned ahs nothing to do with collectivist societies. its kind of same even when u are in a collectivist society , if u do more work u will get promotion and more advantages. why are u people adding collectivist society and communism they are different things , most of collectivist societies are capitalist so these things u are mentioning aren't a basic problem in collectivist societies. if somebody is taking charge and getting more authority then he will take more responsibility too. I dont think u have been in a collectivist countries before ?

@@ASH-bb4sg That's a collectivist society that adheres to individualistic practices. If you do more work and rewarded with a promotion, that's an individualistic achievement. A group of people working on a project and rewarded with time off + opening party. Thats a collectivist achievement. He's was talking about the dangers of a collectivist society that unfortunately are still around today. Brazil is a dominantly collectivist and capitalist society, but the nation is unfortunately behind in a lot of things economically. US, UK or Europe are societies that adhere a balance of both collectivism and individualism. Don't confuse the two with both being absolute.

What’s wrong with people not studying “Gender studies” and the like, and doing things that are more useful for society? That doesn’t seem like your 2 other examples, were you joking with that one?

Exactly. And The social and mental coertion is like slo-mo Maoism

can i quote you for my school oral?

don't confuse being alone with working with other, when one has to perform work one has to do it as group, if one wants to be alone you have the choice to stay away from others, unless you get that annoying narcissist monkey that can't stay put, the problem is people that are individualist also run the team wrongly and show favoritism, an individualist will pretty much take all the credit for the good thing they never did and deny all the bad things they did and drop it on their subordinates

@matrixteknologies4279 I agree. I've experienced that myself. Had a leader of the team that contributed zero, was nowhere to be found while we worked. When it was done he returned just in time to take credit. No one liked the guy, but he was good at office politics(sadly). Every person is talented in different ways, if everyone on the team contributes regardless of output then the team is successful, however it should be noted/recognized if any person consistently outperforms the rest. Collectivism in a utopian society will not encourage performance nor reward performance.

@@brandonsheffield9873 That said performance is the issue. A collective idea like a corporate can't work without collectivism. Yes, fallacies exist like you've explained, but it has to be dealt with rather abandon. Modern economy or even the standard of living is a boon of collectivist ideas which came from organised religion.

If somebody does crime which is harmful for humanity, how is that collectivism, and not individualism. Like in America, was the wrong never punished, can not indivialism also say, that 'this crime is against the rights of other individuals'?

@@BabitaKumari-hk9ci but when law is enforced to prevent the unethical work that is harmful for humanity which is collectivism because every one is against the crime for one reason that the crime is harmful. and they are collectively protecting the right of other innocent individuals

Really? I always thought asians were meant to be more humble and more collectivist. I'm not Asian so I guess I don't know

@@Frazier16 I guess you could say this is the influence of Western thought. As collectivist and non-assertive thought is normal, most people tend to be shy and not stick out. But that also means no one leads. But somehow someone need to lead and/or complain if something is wrong. Normally, no one complains because you don't want to appear the incompetent complainer. No one also leads because you don't want to appear the incompetent leader. Asians value the concept of "face" that sometimes it is better to die than lose "face". The more conservative the Asian, the more important "face" is. Western thought is the way of putting less value in face (especially the family) to achieve one's goals... but that also looks irresponsible in Asian standards. It is a complicated balancing act. As you can see in typical Western examples in particular "typical" Americans - they look smug, dumb, incompetent, and just all talk and complain.. usually the most notorious would be ghetto culture.

There needs to be a balance of having both collectivism and individualism cause too much of one thing is bad

They both are required for a healthy functioning state.

Individualism is toxic too

You can say that now because momma & poppa pay the bills.

Judaism is the worst.

@@54321Truth really dude? Really?.....millenials....baby boomers....meatloaf.....Nancy Pelosi....Austin Texas.....pubic lice.........and JEWS are the worst? I hate to break it to you, man....but you do not have a mind capable of critical thought.

@@54321Truth or are you saying you dislike the belief system? Or the people? Clarification please.

@@ghostrider2664 Why are you supporting a satanic "ism" called Judaism?

@@ghostrider2664 so racism is close minded for thinking about how other races are discriminated against? I get you probably mean more political ones but -ism are important for the development of society as they make it easier to understand one concept and another. If anything it is more open-minded to observe each -ism and find one you agree with the most and improve on that idea with everything you learnt from the others. This helps improves each system and eventually will lead to a better society that combines traits from all of them.

Why

This is an example of how someone who wants your stuff gets it. Individuals dont stand a chance against the hoards of collectivist. There is always a pecking order most are just to blind or drunk with the idea to see it.

@@LittleolBitty I don’t see collectivism as sharing your “stuff”. I see it as working together to achieve a goal. It has nothing to do equal outcome

@@Mrcontrolfreak21 Individuals can work together to achieve a goal, and often do. But they can also say no, and do their own thing as well. With collectivists, "you" don't matter. Only the collective does.

​@@sirellynbut individualism is more toxic. That's why the politicians don't care about your kids'lives until the politicians kids get shot

That individualist idea can be dangerous. Not everything that one does has a direct effect on someone or something. Like consuming drugs is an individual right according to individualism, but it indirectly harms many so the collectivist groups tackle it.

​@@speedythings7396 Consuming drugs is not just an individualistic decision. It can be collectivist as well. Aka, Peer pressure

Since when Stalin is collectivism

lol

Yeah sure thats why individualism is the worst system... because you need to compete and competition is the root of any war while colectivism is about people getting toghether to get a goal done, you need to work with others because you need others, no man can survive alone. Also when you talk about people who archive success competing you are talking about working class because the owners of the company dont do it

@@robertorpg2132 Marxism fails because nobody competes. Owners of companys compete with other companys. But yes, if a company becomes a monopoly it becomes like socialism and performance and service decline. Like big tech company monopolys. We all enjoy the ability to drop a company if they provide bad service and buy from another company. You don't drop your ethics just because you compete. Competition is not inherently not ethical. People are not ethical. Unethical people can be capitalist or socialist.

@@robertorpg2132 If people only see themselves as a group they will never thrive beyond their group. At the end of the day, a collective is only as good as the person who leads, influences, or controls it. A hive mind is still one mind that dictates all. In a school, I had a hard time trying to fit in with people because I never associated with a particular group and never wanted to be apart of group that was limited to one core trait. It was only when I started to make my own path I was able to interact with people better because I could use each thing I had in common with them to relate to a broader group of people. No man can survive alone but the reason that is possible is because each man is unique enough to bring their strength to the group. In simpler terms, by improving ourselves we are improving the world around us because we have a greater understanding of what it is to be human.

I argue individualism and collectivism can simply go hand in hand. By simply believing in it. There are many who are kind because they want to. They believe in themselves that it will be alright for others, and to believe in others, it will be alright for yourself. There is trust and confidence. And if its broken, they just got to fix it up. But some People have been traumatized by society and became afraid and cynical of humanity. Some became cycinal about caring others and be kind as useful and sees it as pathetic. and self interest is the only way to thrive, kindness is useless.. While others became in return cynical that people are programmed to be uncaring and only able to do self interest, and start to force people to care others, put people down if they seem to powerful, and destroy others self worth in a unkind way to feel safe of their own lack of confidence . Both left and right became coward, lost and incomplete in moral ways. And centrists only compromise their rotten ideals, are not actually thinking positive.

Hmm, that is a good idea. Thanks!

Ideology? You and me are a part of it.