Inga Thompson on Transgender Athletes in Sports | The Forward with Lance Armstrong 

Glad this conversation is happening. Trams people can be treated with empathy and respect , but not at the cost of women’ rights. Our sisters, daughters, granddaughter, etc. should also be respected and protected.

Inga has been the most balanced voice you have featured on this. The fact that she mentioned the Biden Administration redefining Title IX is important. We should all be safeguarding women’s spaces, and realizing that when we give rights to some by giving up right the right of others, we are not creating equality.

Lance, the people I know are mainly upset about trans men competing against women and that children under a certain age are not yet capable (yet) of making a decision on their own

Great episode. Inga is very sharp and understood the issues quite well. Super discussion.

Love this! Such an important topic for female athletes! We see this in amateur cycling also. Starting to see “open” categories as an option where the women’s category are for people born as females. Thank you for your work on this.

Thank you for for standing up for women's sports and bringing common sense and biology that cannot be argued. I'm a so-so age grouper that started competing in my forties. I'm happy just to finish races, but I do not want to compete against men. I ride regularly with a coed group and cannot, not matter how much I train or try, outride the men. I can occasionally out climb a larger, less fit male, but I am small and light, so that goes back to simple biology. Thanks again Lance, for supporting women's sports.

Lance was my first super hero, I love cyclist because of you. I might not agree with everything you did but I respect you. I’m from Puerto Rico 🇵🇷. This was a great podcast. We need to be more vocal about this new changes and make sure women rights are respected. Stay strong Champ 👍🏻☀️💪🏻

An average Cat 1 male racer could be almost any female pro. Biology is real and must be enforced.

I am a 84 year old dude and fully aware of things going on at present. Watching this discussion about the sexual nuances in existence was an eye opener for me. What I don’t like is the news media using this topic dominating it's reporting. When it comes to sport, why don't we separate Olympics for each sexual category? We already have it with the handycapt.

100% agree with Inga. Thank you for speaking out.

Reasoned. As a female athlete I just want a fair race.

I wonder if it will dawn on Lance eventually after his talk with the two trans people that biology, science and evidence doesn’t mean anything to them. They are unfortunately of the new school of thinking that reality isn’t as important as the way they they feel, which no one denies they feel that way, however women have feelings too and they are not less important than trans women’s feelings. We compete in sports with our bodies not our identities.

Great coverage of this topic...and good podcast. It could be greatly improved if somebody would work with Lance on communicating more succinctly (i.e., without so many asides, so much stammering, etc.).

Why there is a controversy on this issue is baffling. The consensus even in the trans community is that “gender identity” and biological sex are two different things. There is no reason to give preferential consideration to gender identity over biological sex, especially regarding sex-segregated sports or locker rooms. What someone feels “in the heart and soul” sounds like a religious or spiritual matter, and should have little bearing on matters related to biological sex.

This is a simple issue. Trans athletes ARE VERY WELCOME to compete, IN THEIR OWN LEAGUES. I don't understand what the fuss is about.

It's as if time stands still during this conversation. 🤔 I say that because according to the clock on the wall behind Inga, the conversation starts at about 1:50, and ends at 1:50. 🙂

I probably would not have watched this if I hadn't followed Inga on Twitter -- where she is a known defender of biological women (which aligns with my beliefs).

Lance, have you interviewed or tried to interview Lia Thomas or Austin Phillips?

Inga you are a gem, its so clear

Being an older American, what I have seen historically is that whenever there is social upheaval regarding rights for any group, the pendulum usually swings to the other extreme before it comes back to the middle. For example, the Gay Rights movement allowed closeted people to "come out" in the face of great backlash. They had to fight for themselves and then it normalized. This is no different. Just my opinion based on the observation of historical events over the years.

I am a women's basketball player. Title 9 allowed me to compete and attend college on a full scholarship. I played on the boy's team in high school. Once sophomore year came on, I could compete anymore. Where are the women? This shouldn't even be a conversation. Hormones don't start when puberty hits. Men are born with testosterone. Also, puberty is starting sooner and sooner. This drives me crazy. Please tell me any groups I can join to fight this problem. It should be called "Take a Knee."

Inga is spot on. I agree with her. Smart lady. Think about it you don't see a woman who has trans to male competing in men's sports. There's a reason why you don't. Does anyone think about that?

I was there when Armstrong and Thompson won the U.S. Nationals in Jeremy Ranch, UT in 1991. Tough course that blew up both men's and women's fields. I rode around the course taking pictures. Met Eddie B. too.

Inga is really smart. I have been a huge fan of her since the 80s

I would love to watch Armstrong's thoughts on cycling, but he really needs to put out some videos that are more to the point. They don't have to be 4 or 6 minutes, but an hour + is too much. Trim it down. Hire an editor, please.

Great to have such an expert on fairness in sports talking on that topic. And Inga, too.

She is absolutely right!

Good for them both for having the courage to express opinions on this taboo subject.

Both of these people can speak to sex separation in sports when it makes sense and have experience with mixed events. Here are a few names that Inga can verify as lightning fast in their day..Inga herself, Rebecca, Betsy King, Heather McNair, all of Team Lycra, Patty Peoples.. many many many more..all these female athletes did training races w men. Many did the men's race w a realistic expectation of most likely not contesting the final sprint. Lance probably wants to forget his days of Eddie B yelling encouraging words at the famous Ziggurat races and because of his career path, I will confirm it for him, in some of the tiny S. California races women participated in some races in a limited capacity. Never the other way around..men never raced the women's event.Racers that I saw years ago Jeanne Golay( tall, powerful,fast) Sandy Miester( small, fit anywhere, fast ferocious) I saw both women contest training races and sanctioned men's events..the reason I named those 2, because I saw them win primes( pronounced preem) in men's events. Inga Thompson knows what she is talking about, in her day she was wicked fast and fierce competitor... she was always able to race in 90% of men's races.. she didn't because of a physical reality. All this and the most important words are from Inga .." don't deny biology" .

Rather than having self-serving links to other social media accounts, it would have been nice to have a link to for example that Swedish study Inga Thompson is referring to.

@WEDU do you read your comments?

Clearly, the T crowd is totally dominating the discussion and owns the politics, when it took an hour of gentle, pussyfooting around a clear-cut topic to hear they both agree: sex biology matters tremendously in sports.

We found in 1990’s mountain biking, there was such a separation of ability, that not having a women’s category would turn most women away from the event.

This interview is the textbook definition of irony.

I agree with ALL previous comments; that praise this conversation which is SO needed and Inga Thompson is incredibly balanced and rational. It is so frustrating to hear about the ineptness and carelessness of the IOC. Wish women could just quit the IOC, and SUCH a good point about what is the power and money behind the lack of common sense within the IOC?

I've never seen Lance this cautious. Not a knock, because it's a definite minefield, but it added an interesting element to this interview compared to many others.

my first boston marathon I was just some random age grouper---everyone started at the same time back then--i remember picking off elite women with numbers on the backs, etc.....

The UCI settled this one.

In general my opinion is for all sports, we are open to anyone doing any sport and competing . All are welcome anytime regardless who you are. Trans athletes ARE VERY WELCOME to compete, IN THEIR OWN categories I don't understand what the fuss is about. . I think it is most appropriate and i think the measures are taken already, having categories of male, female, non binary etc, keep it open i understand how people feel if its a male claiming to be a women going in the female category, yes i think it can make heads turn etc. i just think the categories need to be simplified more, have male, female, and a category under one name that can cover non binary, transgender etc? i think that could be the proper way to address this in sport events? thoughts?

I think the best option is that instead of having "women" or "men" competition, have "XX" and "Open"/"All". Everyone can participate in the open category, men, women, transgenders, XXY (Kleinfelters), non-binaries, etc. We exclude nobody in this "open" competition.

The UCI and now USAC have finally decided to promote fairness and reality for women cyclists. Will you do a wrap up video to cover this news?

Alright, it’s enough now. LA is nice to listen to but somehow there is no progress in his discussions, picking up lots of topics, hardly any gets discussed/concluded

I would love to hear a discussion between Carol Hooven and Inga Thompson, minus Lance. Lance interrupted Carol so often during their podcast that I felt like I never got the opportunity to truly hear what this intelligent woman had to say on this topic.

Talk about the ultimate “doping” being a man in women’s sports

YT wouldn’t let me click on the video watch on the regular feed. I had to save it to watch later and only then would it play.

Lance is great at conversations but he can’t finish one thought.

How can one be canceled for the word "woman"? The word 'female' is already considered 'bad' on Reddit, if this is a harbinger of the next level of crazy. Yet, the word 'male' is thrown around with impunity.

About 8 minutes in video they were talking about stuff boys do. I had to laugh as I did some stupid stuff as young boy. Jumping off the roof of my house thinking I was superman, playing with fire, setting off firecrackers, cherry bombs and 1/4 sticks of dynamite. My 2 boys were never as reckless as me and my friends, BUT my oldest did jump off a 6 foot retaining wall with his razor scooter and ended up with 22 stitches also fractured bones and concussions from skateboarding half pipe and biking stunts. Youngest boy almost had to have surgical pins in wrist and a fractured sternum!

Nice to hear a sane conversation.

The green screen isnt working super well.

Trying to silence these athletes is almost like riding up to a cyclist who's speaking out against doping and then making a "zip your lips" gesture. It really is reprehensible.

12:30 Going through puberty as a girl or boy is mostly physical differences happening, where a trans boy or girl will be going through, primarily, a mental stage with normal puberty playing second fiddle.

Great topic I agree with you.

The overarching umbrella is to protect both women, trans-women, and trans-men. The sports issue is a hard one but separate. It doesn't feel fair to be born in the wrong body, that doesn't mean we have to be unfair to everyone else. I think the Trans community need to stand up and fight for cis-women rights. CM 4, 3, 2, 1, Pro; CF 4, 3, 2, 1, Pro; TM 4, 3, 2, 1, Pro; TF 4, 3, 2, 1, Pro.

Why did the clock not move??

I agree with most of what was said in this podcast, but please don't go down the conspiratorial road in explaining what's going on in terms of powerful shadowy groups. Trans advocacy groups are merely exploiting a preference in organisations to champion inclusion or at least not to appear in opposition to it. For most trans rights this is the right approach. But in women's spaces and sport a common sense approach is needed to protect women's rights. No need to theorise about dark forces.

They keep saying we are scared to stand up...WHAT ARE WE SCARED OF?

A man has higher bone density, higher cardiovascular output, stronger musculature, quicker recovery, and tougher mental drive. Wishing the facts away doesn't change them.

When life was harder you couldn’t survive without employing common sense. Now that the common sense generations are dying off, there is more advanced technology and programs to assist pretty much anyone that wants it, life has become easier and common sense has become uncommon. And like Inga said, that’s a problem.

This has set women back 70+ years

I think she hit the nail on the head. It's about language too. All the terms that are being thrown around like they should mean something. How in fact can people be 'canceled'. Such a stupid term to use. I think people should really stop adopting terms that just make no sense in the scheme of things. People don't get canceled. Subscriptions get canceled. Your insurance policy gets canceled. Your netflix account gets canceled....

Lance, would you please try to finish a sentence?

Inga is correct. It's the politics. Regarding, biology vs ideology, you cannot discount biology.

Great chat. I would love to see Lance have a sit down with some old school legends like Alexi Grewal, Rebecca Twigg. That entire 7/11 team was legendary. Add THE voice of cycling Phil Liggett also. Throw in Marcus Allen, Dave Scott, and Paula Newby Fraser from his young triathlon days too! What the heck, throw in Courtney Dauwalter for good measure….

How does being autistic and having sensory overload work with being homeless? I can't think of more sensory overload environment. People that become homeless due to circumstance typically turn to drugs to numb the agrophobic feeling of being exposed to the elements, helped along by their fellow homeless that are homeless due to addiction.

51:28 What is Self-ID?

We all respect there choice, but not the fantasy of equality in sports. We all go through different experiences in life but you’re saying their hardships are harder and more important than any of ours.

Well this is news to me, that it hasn't been solved by cycling. my impression was that it had been. Why, because am in the UK. And CTT (cycling time trials)have been saying for some time, the following: That first of all the Male category is now the open category and that second a transgender Male to female must compete in the open category (other way round-female to male may compete in this category). A non binary must compete in the open category. So I think that is what Inga wants (and Lance). A stickier issue may be inter-sex, which CTT are maybe talking about when they say in their regulation that the purpose of the policy is to satisfy all three below requirements. One to only compete in the category assigned at birth, two , they must not have gone through any part of Male puberty and three, that their testosterone level must not be over 2.5 nmol/L before competing even if they satisfy the first two requirements. Now let us look at BC (because in UCI and CTT are not) , it is the same. It states that Transgender Women (so therefore Male to Female) must compete in the open category. So now there is either open or Female. If there is any doubt, the open one is the one you will be competing in. This is for all competitors either in CTT or BC, so not just elite. UCI seem to be taking a more lenient view , that if you transitioned after Male puberty you must not compete in women's events. no mention of open category as far as I can see. But for masters events it will be the open category. Having said that this is as of the 14 July so 3 weeks ago you wouldn't know. Not sure how come BC and UCI are different, as BC are in UCI. Same in the US, how come they have different rules . You (Inga anyway)appeared to say there is no open category ,well why not.

As kids we all grew up reading science and how we would have mag lev trains as well as supersonic flight for everyday people. Instead we debatinf this.

Why not encourage the end goal that transwomen participate in men's sports? It's not about the clothing (most sports teams wear very basic gender neutral uniforms anyway). I think many people will have the reflex to say "No way - men will never accept this". Well, seems we are all fine with women losing out, being discouraged etc. Seems like a reasonable goal to work towards.

while listening to Inga and Lance I am reflecting on experience with trans gender athletes I coach a high school cross country team, a few years ago my girls team lost the state championship race by 3 points. later that day I learned that the winning team's second skier was trans, leaving me at a loss. Wonder how my girls would take it, I thoughtfully explained to my girls the situation. To my surprise my girls were upset with me for even thinking that it would be an issue? they were fine with second, the coaches on the other hand were (are) very disappointed. Just adding this to the whole conversation.

This isn't even a discussion -- males compete with males and females compete with females. Make new divisions if you want but it's just that simple.

Lance is really owning those goofs he was on "mars" with.

It’s been scientifically proven that people can be trans and being trans is also seen in other animals. XX chromosome don't make a woman, a woman. There are cis women who have XY chromosome, and they can still give birth. Transgender women have a right to play in women sports. Chromosomes aren’t the only things determining sex and gender. It’s a lot more complicated that we learned in grade school. There are cases where two fertilized eggs fuse and the fetus can develop with some tissues with XX chromosomes and some with XY chromosomes. It is difficult to test for since it involves tissue sampling from the involved organs and we don’t know which those are. It is probably much more common than realized because it is only diagnosed when testing for something like maternity/paternity. There are cases where women were told that they were not their children’s mother because the genes in the ovaries were different from those tested in the blood or saliva. It would be interesting to see if some trans people are chimeric and the brain has different genes than the rest of the body. People don’t know how rare this is because it is not tested for. It could certainly account for many cases where people were transgender. Bigot's definition of what is normal and what is not is flawed. Who gave you the right to say that just because XX and XY are in the majority than anything else is an aberration. Using that logic, anyone with blue eyes is not normal. Or anyone who is gay or Jewish. Eugenics is a scary thing. I have given an example of a normal variant where the cells in the brain could be XX and those in the rest of the body XY. Did people notice that a large number of the XX/XY chimeras functioned normally as men or women, including normal fertility? Sex chromosomes can include any combinations that aren't 46 XX or 46 XY.

And next up, a conversation with Phillipa York?

You need to fix the clock

The problem is when ideology and politics takes over Inga being a Democrat who cares!! ..I know a Cuban American man no politics in sports just hard work and organic. X cyclists champion 3 times in my life. I grew up with Chris Carmichael Lance's coach and raced with him since 11 yrs old in Miami. The human endeavor and intelligence should be left to develop with hard work and organically. My opinion !

58:44 what do transwomen know about breast cancer?

11:07 It will never be a loving and accepting place….

Throw a woman’s team in the Tour De France and watch what happens.

I identify as a motorcyclist even though I only have bicycles.

Simple solution: 3rd category: Misfits. Anything goes - have at it :)

48:39 What are they going to do to Title 9?

#LETWOMENSPEAK ❤ BODIES COMPETE NOT IDENTITIES ❌❌❣️ #KEEPMENOUTOFWOMENSSPORTS

Sport's , men that think their women Division in sports would work ! Back When 7 11 teams the magazine So Awesome Then the Trek 2000 LoL !

Round & round in fall over himself nice circles trying not to offend anyone. ‘If scientists could make a pill and then it was even , well I suppose we’d say ok. No lance. Lance that boil you have. That’s magical thinking. Women are women. Men are men , The end.

Just add female Cheetahs and Dolphins, to male sports. And watch the pushbacks.

So great to have two people apply critical thinking to a subject that is quite simple to understand.

Common sense returns? We can only hope...

1000 ways to say the same thing, even if it is screamingly obvious.

With all the drugs that Lance has taken over the years, perhaps he's considering a transition to be Miss Lacey Armstrong? Opens up a whole new opportunity to race in the Tour de France femmes. If he fails a drug test in that race, then he could always claim that it was for his transition surgery. Lance brings turd polishing to a whole notha level.

Tucker Carlson in not a loon! I like these conversations too, but when you were off-handed about Tucker, I had to comment

"listening to all these loons?" If you want to have a podcast that people want to listen to, don't denigrate 50% of your viewers.

Girl I want your job. I would love to ride an excavator and other farm equipment

Clock on the wall not moving forward…

Get a real clock.

Total Punk

Lance, a cheater who ruined many people lives, has rebranded himself as an anti trans demagogue.

Why give this insanity any credence with this kind of protracted discussion. Just reject it. The real issue is the deliberate social engineering driving this and what the end game is. This is not a spontaneous movement.

1:00:39 Why to transwomen get to change our sports, use descriptors to describe us? Who do they think they are? 🤦‍♀️