Inigo San Millan on Mitochondria, Lactate & Zone 2 || Episode

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GUEST:
Head of trainers staff with UAE Team Emirates, he is also a professor at the University of Colorado School of Medicine where he does clinical and research work in cellular metabolism, especially in diabetes, cardiometabolic disease and cancer.
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TOPICS:
0:00 - Intro
3:00 - Start
3:19 - Background
4:20 - Balancing Activities
13:10 - Mitochondria
25:00 - Substrates and Diet
31:45 - Lactate as a Fuel
50:45 - Zone 2 and FatMax
1:06:00 - Threshold Training
1:10:01 - Recovery Optimisation and Performance
Podcast available on January 3rd, 2022
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Опубликовано:

30 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 142

@luiscolon921 2 года назад

I've listened to a few interviews with Inigo and this was by far the best and most pertinent from my point of view. Interviewer asked key and pointed questions and let the guest answer to the best of his ability without mindless interruptions.

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

I really appreciate your feedback! Thanks for taking the time to comment 🙌

@AR-lz2br Год назад

Exactly, I hate when the interviewers want to be the protagonist by interrupting the interviewee over and over pretending that they know a lot about the topic and trying to impress the audience and the interviewee. Good job on this interview!

@bamicus9342 Год назад

Totally agree, other interviews try to “out doctor”, the Doctor!

@oilesquire Год назад

As a layman who understands the difference in correlation and causation very well, I will say that 240 ish mins a week of Z2 training combined with persistent dietary changes contributed to lowering my triglycerides from 110 to 55 to 40 (yes, 40), drove LDL-P way down and improved my insulin sensitivity score (by NMR) by 40% in 12 months. And it was EASY. That was with one day a week of VO2 Max training (which sucked). And Dr. Milan's Attia interview was my epiphany on point. Fatty acids - burn baby burn! I'm 56. TY!

@Upsidestrength Год назад

Thanks for your comment and happy training my friend!

@BollywoodMediaOnline 2 месяца назад

In your opinion, do you think the heavy emphasis on Zone 2 training is what most contributed to the lowering of insulin sensitivity and TGs, than doing HIIT? I hear mixed things on what helps fat loss/insulin sensitivity - HIIT vs Z2 - if only running 3-4x per week for example??

@oilesquire 2 месяца назад

@@BollywoodMediaOnline I don't think insulin sensitivity is well understood yet because there are several variables, including genetics, and I'm no one to speak into anything but my own N = 1. But I think serious strength training, caloric deficit/balance and mitochondrial function are the biggest modifiable factors. I perform Zone 5 training only 3x month because I'm 57 now and my recovery budget is taxed by my intense strength training 2x in 8 days. I rec to friends who ask to use an 8 day training cycle.

@thomjo662 2 года назад

Super interview... j en ai encore appris un paquet , même si par moment c est très technique , quand tu as parlé de la zone 2 toutes les explications données avant étaient claire. Let's Go Z2 ❤️

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

Merci Thom ☺️☺️

@sashabates448 2 года назад

Its already been said but great interview I really appreciated how you let the expert do the talking

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

Much appreciated, thank you!

@michaeldallery1539 2 года назад

Merci à Inigo et à toi pour ce super podcast !

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

Merci à toi!

@Northwindbreeze Год назад

Awesome work both of you, thank you.

@Upsidestrength Год назад

Thanks mate

@Spark_MTB_BMX_Coaching 2 года назад

Fantastic interview with some great questions.

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

Thanks man much appreciated 🙏

@christophalcmeonides8537 Год назад

GREAT INFO ! Thank you ... both !

@Upsidestrength Год назад

Thank you

@runningrenaissance5156 2 года назад

Excellent podcast !! Merci à vous

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

Merci à toi!

@SethRamesh Год назад

Fantastic discussions. Thank you

@Upsidestrength Год назад

Thank you 🙏

@coachbrendan 23 дня назад

OUTSTANDING in every respect

@tfmajka13 2 года назад

Thanks, you asked a lot of the questions I wanted to have answered.

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

Glad to hear it. Thanks for your feedback 💪

@JamesBoz 2 года назад

Very informative!

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

Thanks man!

@jeffreyharrison4045 Год назад

Excellent episode! Thanks!

@Upsidestrength Год назад

Merci!

@Leswatts 2 года назад

Merci pour le partage, j'ai moi-même partagé ta vidéo. A +

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

Un grand merci à toi!

@benoit_coaching 11 месяцев назад

Wow thank you Sean! That's was great to hear ! Very interesting about training in both zone

@Upsidestrength 11 месяцев назад

Merci benoit 🫶

@Jagged_Ice Год назад

Very good interview. Appreciate this breakdown on zone 2 benefits.

@Upsidestrength Год назад

Thanks a lot!

@StevenBrandesWI 2 года назад

Good interview.

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

Thanks a lot Steven I appreciate the feedback

Год назад

Really good questions, a few times I thought "what about that" and the next question you ask is exactly what I wanted to know!

@Upsidestrength Год назад

I appreciate your comment! Thanks for the support 👌 hope you enjoy some other episodes!

@drdanthelizzyman Год назад

Excellent!

@Upsidestrength Год назад

Many thanks!

@imadogsass6717 2 года назад

Regarding a cool down to aid recovery, does it take away a stimulus that would improve performance in the longer term? I understand using it as a method to aid recovery in stage races but does it have a place during training?

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

I think it does have a place. Helping your body recycle what’s been predicted during HI is always a good idea IMO

@vitormila3951 Год назад

Nice interview I do cross training 1 h running, 3 h cycling and 1 h rowing inddor on the same day I train 3 days a week 15 h, on sundays I push the engine in the glycolytic zone whether cycling, rowing, running I do one every sunday, no It's just that I'm a fanatic, but I've been training in ketosis for two years and I've trained in metabolic fasting I've already trained with 24 hours without eating it's impressive, sometimes I eat some carbs but I prefer to be low for me it works and it's good for my health and the mitochondria like ketones better, i can speak for myself i used to train in cycling groups and my gliogen broke within 2 hours i was metabolically inflexible i couldn't burn fat but i'm not a diet fanatic but i feel good this way and my health has improved, i like san milan but i could invite my master phil maffettone he trilled mark alen 5 times ironaman champion he already used zone two training in the late 70's he is brilliant i started running barefoot thanks to him phil is bril hante as a doctor and trainer

@Upsidestrength Год назад

If you have a contact with Phil I’m interested to have him on 🙏

@RXP91 Год назад

I never cool down, thought it was a waste of time! Now I'll start!

@Upsidestrength Год назад

Let’s goooo

@yoanalfred3525 2 года назад

Toujours intéressant. Quel est ton avis sur les appareils qui mesurent le lactate? Ca devrait permettre de calibrer les zones avec précision.

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

C’est des outils qui sont utilisés avec beaucoup de succès depuis très longtemps. Donc je n’ai rien contre. Ça reste un seul point de donnée qui peut être influencé par énormément de facteurs (respiration, fatigue, nutrition, altitude, etc…) donc c’est toujours une bonne idée à mon avis de prendre plusieurs points de données avant de tirer des conclusions!

@utoktome 2 года назад

Très bon sujet. Merci bien. Sur la zone 2, tu lui as posé la question 'minute 55'34" dans quelle partie de zone 2 il est plus intéressant de travailler, je ne suis sur d'avoir compris la réponse :)

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

Je pense que ça dépend du temps que tu passes!

@k.endurance_optimization9257 2 года назад

Merci beaucoup pour ce partage de connaissances. Quelle humilité malgré son niveau c'est inspirant !

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

Merci K 💪

@Goldo1968 2 года назад

Carbs best before / after for those training Zone 2 4xweek 60’?

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

I’d say after. Definitely not before. You want to maximize fat oxidation and carbs will inhibit that to some extent

@jcferrer2826 2 года назад

Wahou quelle claque cette vidéo !!! merci pour le partage, je m'abonne de ce pas ;-)

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

Merci JC ✌️

@jcferrer2826 2 года назад

@@Upsidestrength Je viens de tester ce week-end et c'est déroutant !!! il y 15 jours sortie de 90 km à 28 de moyenne pour 1500 de D+ ; pas mal de temps en Z3 et Z4 et le lendemain aucunes courbatures. Hier, 1h de Fatmax sur home-trainer et j'ai ce matin les cuisses en feu :-) Comment l'expliquer ? j'ai une mauvaise endurance fondamentale ?

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

@@jcferrer2826 si t’as pas l’habitude de ces intensités ça va être dure au début!

@CarnivoreDMD 11 месяцев назад

Methylene Blue 😮??? For mitochondrial health. Any research you support?

@lui8885 Год назад

I really hope someone can help me and answer this question. I have to stand a lot in my work, I see that it is easier for my co-workers, but it is very hard for me. I need sleep more than other people too. Could training in zone 2 help with that?

@Upsidestrength Год назад

I’d tackle the following in order and using small, manageable steps to build long-lasting habits: - Sleep - Strength training - Zone 2 🥰

@cedriclequere2152 11 месяцев назад

Purée ça c’est un invité 🤩🤩🤩🔥

@Upsidestrength 10 месяцев назад

❤️

@baptistelefloch725 Год назад

Bonjour Sean ! Je ne suis pas sur de bien comprendre la partie au sujet des catécholamines produites à haute intensité et leur effet vasoconstricteur ? En quoi cela à un impact sur la desaturation des muscles non impliqué à l'exercice (si j'ai bien compris) ? Merci de ta réponse et bonne journée/soirée à toi !

@Upsidestrength Год назад

Dans le domaine sévère j’observe chez les gens entraînés une desaturation au niveau de l’oxymetrie des muscles non impliqués. Je ne sais pas encore pourquoi ce phénomène prend place!

@borasumer Год назад

Very good information to learn how body reacts and behaves to the different training styles. But unfortunately for us recreational cyclists, it is really hard to come up with practical outcomes from any of these interviews, rather than riding at zone 2 the majority of the time we spend on trainjng which i think it very well adopted and acknowledged by cyclists. I'd like to hear more how to train based on these facts with perhaps an example workout program for someone who has lets say 10 to 15h a week time to trainer. How to schedule the rides, how the rides should be constructed etc. Thanks for the interview, amazing job 👌

@Upsidestrength Год назад

Thanks for the comment! I know Dylan Johnson has some great videos on that, I recommend that you check out his channel!

@borasumer Год назад

@@Upsidestrength I will definitely, thanks for the recommendation, cheers

@slowcyclist4324 Год назад

But from that you can build a very practical training plan. 1) spend most of your time in zone 2.ideally, just buy a trainer and ride indoors all the time for maximum efficiency. 2) do specific vo2 max intervals to raise your vo2 max on pre-determines sessions I’m a completely recreational cyclist, and for the past year I’ve ridden outdoors for less than 10% of my rides. Of the 350-400 hours of cycling last year, less than 50 were outdoors in my bike; the rest were on my trainer doing specific training zones.

@ricf9592 Год назад

@@slowcyclist4324 Me too. However, I'm doing 850 hours. Slow cadence, high resistance but low HR. VO2 Max through the roof.

@moneyfindersllc6236 2 года назад

WHY, Are the Closed Captions in French, and Entirely Unavailable in English???

@daness40 2 года назад

I can see closed captions in English. I just changed it in settings.

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

Thanks Dane 😉

@patricklachetta7644 2 года назад

So Type I muscle fibers use more fatty acids as a fuel source and type II more glycolytic as fuel?

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

The essence is this, yes!

@jono1457-qd9ft 9 месяцев назад

@@UpsidestrengthNo, that is incorrect. Explain why you believe it is?

@frominjuredtoathletic Год назад

I am starting to use zone 2 because I often injured myself

@Upsidestrength Год назад

Happy training!

@SpeedBoosted136 2 года назад

How important is CADENCE for maximizing Aerobic System growth? For example: i do 170watt at 140bpm on 75 cadence, which feels natural to me, but when i bump cadence to 85-90 my HR rises to 145-148. Which is the best option for Aerobic system development: 1) 170w at 75 cadence at 140bpm or 2) 150w at 90 cadence at 140 rpm?

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

I'd say that both are viable options. Then we can also argue that this type of training wants to target T1 fibers and to prioritize their recruitment we should decrease the force production requirement on each pedal stroke, and so increase the cadence. That's why tempo work is often done at low cadences. In that case we want T2a fibers, and we can better recruit them via bigger motor units, which require more force produced in order to be recruited.

@SpeedBoosted136 2 года назад

@@Upsidestrength thank you for the detailed answer, now it's understood :)

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

@@SpeedBoosted136 you bet!

@cliffcox7643 Год назад

55:20, so the question is, should you be at HIGH z2 or LOW Z2? What was the answer?

@Upsidestrength Год назад

Away from top Z2 most of the time then sometimes go push the top!

@dickieblench5001 Год назад

Below the point where your breathing begins to pick up

@spanky590 Год назад

@@Upsidestrength any idea why Peter attia describes ISM zone 2 as low tempo in a 6 zone model? He calls this training "lactate zone 2".

@kalaras3 Год назад

As a recreational cyclist and runner i highly respect the work this gentleman has done. As a medical doctor though, i have come to realise that the diet is maiinly responsible for all of our horrible diseases, including type 2 diabetes ,cancer etc. People are being cured,as we speak of their type 2 diabetes implementing a plant based diet. Does this mean we should not train? of course not. Lets not forget all those great vegan athletes out there. Scott Jurek being the most representative in the ultrarunning community.

@Upsidestrength Год назад

Nutrition is a pillar of health! Absolutely !

@timmclaughlin1787 Год назад

Totally

@quengmingmeow Год назад

Totally agree. Our society incentivizes instant gratification and “continuing my bad habits by taking drugs to mitigate problems” instead of making real change in nutrition and exercise over time.

@jc7887 Год назад

I think it is important to understand that plant based does not mean vegan. I think cutting back meat significantly and prioritizing vegetables and fruits is far superior to going all vegan. I have had incredible results by doing that.

@jarednelson4272 2 года назад

How does one "find" Zone 2 other than lactate parameters?

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

You can also use ventilatory data and muscle oximetry data.

@KD_cycling Год назад

I watched another interview with Inigo and he says that the old school method is very reliable. Basically you should be able to hold a conversation while exercising in z2 but it should be a little laboured. If you were on the phone to someone they could understand you fine but they would know that you're exercising. If you're too short of breath to speak in full sentences then you're going too hard

@RXP91 Год назад

@@Upsidestrength how would you use the muscle ox data? Do you have an article on it? I currently use the zones from a lactate threshold test on my garmin.

@per2046 2 года назад

@Upside Strength or anyone in the know: 1:02:00 Cooling down after HIT workout. Will this low intensity (Z2?) cooldown bypass the resting metabolism and force the body to push glucose and lactate back into the cells, thus clearing the blood and provide quicker recovery? For best results, should Z2 be done for 1-11/2 hours 5-6 days per week followed by say by 3 x 3 or 4 x 4 Z4 HIT intervals for 15 min twice per week followed by 20 min Z2 cooldown only on HIT days when lactate levels are high?

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

Hey Per, to your first point, I think this is likely the case. Although I don’t have any papers to cite here. Z2 should be done as much as you can given your time availability and progressed over time via volume and duration (years of progression here). But obviously start where you are in terms of volume and build step by step. No point in doing 12h if 6h will give the necessary stimuli. For the high intensity it really depends what you’re targeting and what your needs are. That might change from person to person and from one month to the next 👍

@quengmingmeow Год назад

In the Attia podcast with this guest, it was said (I am paraphrasing) that you can do 1.5 hours of zone 2 training to get the maximum mitochondrial gain, and then end that workout with 15 minutes of high intensity to hit VO2 max…and you won’t negate the mitochondrial gains with the high intensity after zone 2. Conversely, if you did the high intensity first, you would not get the optimal gain and if you interspersed high intensity every 15-20 minutes, you are getting a very sub optimal mitochondrial gain.

@dickieblench5001 Год назад

partition and focus on each energy system

@Upsidestrength Год назад

But if they all work all the time, how can you? 🤯🙂

@dickieblench5001 Год назад

@@Upsidestrength In training I mean. Which energy system do I want to train today?

@dickieblench5001 Год назад

@@Upsidestrength they don't all work all the time! The glycolytic pathway is not activated below LT1. Below LT1 you are 100% aerobic

@jono1457-qd9ft 9 месяцев назад

@@dickieblench5001no, that is incorrect. Glycolysis produces lactate as aerobic fuel and a small amount of ATP anaerobically. Glycolysis and Glycogenolysis are always active pathways regardless of exercise intensity. We can train at every intensity during training. No need to isolate. This idea of training just one intensity per session is just a current training fad.

@dickieblench5001 9 месяцев назад

@@jono1457-qd9ft have you studied the work of Stephen Seiler

@eugeniebreida1583 Год назад

Wished for more on health and disease, less on performance athletes..

@Upsidestrength Год назад

Thanks for the feedback 😘

@nortonkelly8460 Год назад

Zone 2, isn't that ridiculously easy? like lower than 125bpm?

@Upsidestrength Год назад

It’s easy for sure yes

@dickieblench5001 Год назад

One hour at zone 2 with no interruptions will make your legs sore because you only use type 1 fibers and force them to work alone

@aarondcmedia9585 Год назад

@@dickieblench5001 never been my experience

@noahtrapp23 10 дней назад

What is then the end procuct of glycolysis?? He said lactate is always there after glucose breakdown? But then says pyruvate is the end product ?

@noahtrapp23 9 дней назад

Anaerobic glycolysis = lactate and aérobic glycolysis = pyruvate ?

@Upsidestrength 9 дней назад

Technically it’s lactate that is the end product because of the physiological equilibrium between lactate and pyruvate. Although one can convert into the other and back.

@Upsidestrength 9 дней назад

There is no aerobic or anaerobic. Glycolysis is what is is = 10 steps to break down sugar into lactate.

@MultiCanEman Год назад

What is the zone 2 heart bpm??

@Upsidestrength Год назад

It’s different for every person!

@MultiCanEman Год назад

@@Upsidestrength How can we find it then?

@KD_cycling Год назад

@@MultiCanEman It is different for each individual but if you know an accurate resting HR and an accurate realised max HR there are rough guides for HR zones (Strava, training peaks etc provide these). Inigo also recommended in another video using a pretty basic method. You should be able to have a conversation with full sentences while in z2 but it should be slightly laboured. If you were on the phone with someone they should be able to understand you fine but they will know that you're exercising.

@MultiCanEman Год назад

@@KD_cycling Thanks for explanation.

@cliffcox7643 Год назад

100% on board w Z2 training, but remember cyclist, Z2 alone will NOT make you fast.. You need to work on your top end, and Z2 only makes you more efficient at your top end.. But if you don't use it, you'll lose it..... your top end that is....

@Upsidestrength Год назад

100% agreed! Z2 is base, then build the rest up intelligently!

@timmclaughlin1787 Год назад

I get lost on trying to understand the conversation. Over the top.

@Upsidestrength Год назад

Listen again! Thanks for tuning in Tim

@ajskdlfla Год назад

Volume is way too low

@Upsidestrength Год назад

Thanks 😊

2 года назад

bad sound

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

Thanks for the feedback!

@lordfresh Год назад

Turn off the music please

@Upsidestrength Год назад

Turn up the sound 💪😤🤘

@hikerJohn 9 месяцев назад

Too many podcasts where the guest is saying exactly the same as many other podcasts so what's the point in watching/listening to such LONG podcasts if nothing unique is being discussed . . . ??? It's so prevalent that RU-vid is flooded with people trying to capitalize on the fares "Optimize your Mitochondria"

@Upsidestrength 9 месяцев назад

Thanks for your support 🫶

@taplubambhos2869 2 года назад

Raise the damn volume can barely hear his mumbling so frustrating

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

Thanks for the comment mate 👌

@ktakashismith 2 года назад

Host seems to have a pathological fixation upon race/geography as the determining factor for human performance. San Millan is not a geneticist, nor is he an evolutionary biologist. Perhaps focus the conversation on controlling the modifiable variables, rather than trying to explain athletic shortcoming as a matter of "not being African".

@Upsidestrength 2 года назад

I was interested to hear his perspective as it seems like different populations from different environments have distinct mitochondrial characteristics! Thanks for supporting the podcast 👏

@imadogsass6717 2 года назад

Unusual gripe, especially in the arena of sports science?

@ktakashismith 2 года назад

@@imadogsass6717 Are we discussing sports science, or eugenics here?

@kevinhaskins6619 2 года назад

Understanding that there are genetic differences in a population with some of them conferring advantage (depending on the environment) is not a moral failing. It is a natural question that scientists ask because their aim isn't to pacify your sensibilities but to find observable truths. Eugenics would imply that either the interviewer or the interviewee has the motive of using artificial selection to promote the superiority of one population over another. And the "superiority" word gets warped because of course one phenotype is superior to another when you are looking at different environments.

@bobborghartgooglable 10 месяцев назад

Although a great mind and researcher I think Inigo is dead wrong when it comes to nutrition. Most hunter gatherer societies are primarily meat-based - IF they are still allowed to hunt the big animals they would like to and as they used to be able to do. As humans have been apex predators for millions of years. See Miki Ben-Dor's studies.