@@magatsujojiWe have to face PC players. There is a speed of execution that cannot be achieved with a controller. He's still fine, with Yoshimitsu the character is fast but me with Jin on ps5, I can tell you that I would never be able to move and execute my movements like Devilster does.
As a Jin main I’ve always hated yoshi in T8. I’ve seen him out-damage Jin with less tools required (ie. Walls, Tornados, Stage gimmicks, Heat, Rage, just frame electrics/high execution moves etc.) I saw a video where Yoshi got I think 105 damage using only a tornado and wall, with Jin I gotta pull out two just frame electrics to match that damage while Yoshi only needs to press 4,3 really quick, it’s a slower move sure but it also high crushes really well, both are negative 13 on block. But if you add in the damage Yoshi healed during that 105 damage combo it creates an even bigger gap between how good Yoshi’s combos are compared to characters like Jin. Yoshi has more speed with tools like flash which heals and launches, he has amazing mix ups with great highs, mids and lows, even has unblockable lows that are faster then high or mid unblockables. As I said before he can heal himself despite the damage, he has great evasion, great range, some of the best keep out tools, a full grapple game, a ton of great tracking moves, and to top things off he benefits from a low crushing helicopter stance that adds damage reduction for being airborne if hit meaning the stance has much less risk then most others. Yoshi honestly seems to have everything, I’m struggling to find anything he is missing. So as Jin main who is supposed to be the Jack of all trades type master of none, Yoshi over here seems like a master of all. Jin is a great character don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Jin is weak, I’m just saying Yoshi seems way too overturned in this game, he seems to have everything and very little weakness. And when you can do everything like that while still being the top of your class in many areas like healing, unblockables, keep out, tracking and speed/counter hits, you make conditioning way too easy. Just using his unblockable normal hit launching low, the only reliable way to counter it is to counter hit him before he can throw out the move, but then Yoshi immediately conditions you into attacking him which is where he is at his best. Yoshi’s thrive off aggressive players attacking them, and in a game where aggressiveness is the new meta, making a character that can do everything while still being one of if not the best at many, many things, that also is the strongest against aggressive players, you’ve created an overpowered monster. The meta is to his benefit on top of him having every tool available to him, many things of which other well rounded characters don’t have. There is being well rounded and then there is maxing out every stat, yoshi feels like the latter. Comparisons: I’m sure you can find other characters that do slightly better at certain things than Yoshi, but they almost all have their own problems that Yoshi doesn’t seem to have. If it’s healing, the only comparable character is Jun, but we all know she’s pretty busted herself, even so she does have weaknesses such as low damage, lack of i15 standing launch punish, bad at making come backs and snowballing the opponent. When it comes to keep out, I think of Lee, but he has a ton of execution required to play him with all his just frame inputs, even still he has weaknesses, I’d even argue Yoshi might be better at keep out given his speed, range and utility tools like healing, helicopter stance, evasive launchers, and his spinning sword wall thing (Forget the name and input). When it comes to his evasion and parry abilities, I think of Raven, he lacks i15 standing launch punishment and has a weak block punish game, meaning pressure works well against Raven if you can outsmart his evasion. His range is comparable to victor just without the gun, but victor has weak tracking, can be jabbed out of Iai stance, no power lows outside of heat or stance, and is overall very punishable on his key moves. He has probably the best tracking moves in the game, one of the least punishable stances in the game, and the best unblockables in the game, so I can’t really find anyone to compare those with. He has a full grab game comparable to Jin or Hwoarang, not quite at Dragonov or King levels, but I guess they needed to compromise in some places right? And as I explained before he has combo damage that is on par with Jin’s just frame CD1 into just frame CD2, B3,Zen1, BF2,3,Zen,U1 B2,1 1,DB2,2,3 for 104 damage, Yoshi can do that damage with less the half the execution despite all the other things he has over Jin that I’ve mentioned. The point should be pretty clear I think that Yoshi is stupidly overpowered in this game, he has too little weaknesses and is too good at his strengths in so many areas while also benefiting from the aggressive meta being a great punishment/counter hit/evasion/Keep out/range/speed character. It just gets to be stupid when you look at Yoshi’s stats compared to other characters, I dunno why people aren’t more annoyed by this.
Devilster is indeed a real high level player no doubt, his unique style of fighting and combos makes him stand from all other Jin’s. But he needs to win some actual real tournaments like EVO, and compete with the top players to become the one the best players.
I’m nowhere near devilsters level, far from it, but I’m also a Jin main so I could give you some advice. The best thing I found is just learning his different strings and setups and piecing them together to form a game plan around, if X then Y type of thing. So try learn good setups and strings. Like 1,2,3 into D2 into either Ws4,4 or FC4 if FC4 lands follow up with a CD1, CD1 will be one of your best oki tools along with Zen 4. Learning good oki is going to massively improve your pressure, being able to apply good mix ups on wake or setting up guaranteed follow ups. Don’t forget Omen is a thing, I know people shit on it a lot, but it’s a great oki tool. Use it after a knock down when you are right above them (works best if they have their back to the wall) if they stood up during the move then use either godfists or hellsweep, if they stayed down then use thunder godfist. Also make good use of UF2, don’t forget that’s a thing and can be used to counter people who are starting to guess your mix ups. If they start guessing your low mix ups, then instead of the low try UF2, if they are blocking the low then they’ll take the mid hit, small damage but no risk and adds to the mind games, if they are using a fast mid to counter hit you when you use a low mix up, then you should be able to use UF2 to counter hit them instead. So it can be used as an offensive pressure tool, not just a defensive one. It’s good idea to learn the Ws1,3,3 DF 1 or 4 combo ender. My hardest hitting no wall or heat combo at the moment is JF CD1 into JF CD2 B3,F-Zen,1 BF2,3,F-Zen,U1 Ws1,3,3 DF CD1 or CD4. The CD1 after Ws1,3,3 will make the damage of the combo much higher since they are grounded at that point thus there is only the damage scaling from being grounded. It will land if the opponent does anything other then stand up immediately and block mid, if they do you’ll be -13 so they will punish you if they block it. So it does have some risks, but most people don’t know how to beat it. If they do know how to beat CD1, off Ws1,3,3 combo ender, then use CD4 which will do even more damage, turns a 50% damage combo into like a 70% damage combo if it lands. But again it does come with risks, for one it doesn’t hit if they lay still, and if they stand up immediately and while blocking low, they’ll launch you most likely. So basically using this ender is letting you apply a guaranteed mix up, but they can still react it and punish you if they have the knowledge, but most don’t I find. Obviously I’ve thrown a lot at you here, but the point is simply learn the moveset you are working with, learn how they fit together and complement each other, then focus on using those tools to form a game plan in an actual match. This game is like 80% knowledge 20% execution. The reason Devilster does so well is because he has both in spades. Devilster does so well with Jin because he has all the knowledge of how Jin’s moves work with each other and even how they work against other characters. To play like Devilster you need to build that same knowledge up. One last tip btw, learn how to low parry, it’s been a huge benefit for me lately now that I’m starting to use a lot of low parries.
@@dylaroo24I know I’m not the op of this thread but thanks for the advice! I struggle with reading the buttons as numbers, so how can I learn them properly?
@@magatsujoji So for the numbers it’s pretty simple. 1 is left punch or square, 2 is right punch or triangle, 3 is left kick or X, 4 is right kick or circle. The rest is other things like for example F=Forward, B=Back, U=Up, D=Down. You also got more complicated ones like Ws or Wr, While standing or While rising, they are both describing the same thing, using a move while your character is standing up from crouching, to-may-to to-ma-to thing. You also have FC=Full Crouch, meaning you have to crouch and stay crouch for a few frames, not sure the exact time you have to stay crouch to count as “full crouch” but it’s a really short window, just a couple of frames. Then you have QCF=Quarter Circle Foward or QCB=Quarter Circle Back, where you press Down, Down-Forward, then Forward for the former and Down, Down-Back, then Back for the latter. Lastly you CD=Crouch Dash which is a Forward, Neutral, Down, Down-Forward input, so for example Kazuya’s Electric wind godfist or EWGF or Jin’s Electric wind hookfist or EWHF both would be labeled as CD2 inputs. To get the electric or just frame version of CD2 or CD1 you need to press Forward, neutral then press 1 or 2 (depending on which move you want) and Down Forward at the exact same time. You basically skip the down input and go right to the down forward input. But don’t be discouraged if you have trouble, it’s the hardest move in the game to master, even veterans of Tekken struggle with just frame electrics. The techniques for learning just frame electrics will also depend on what kind of controller you are using. Obviously learning to do just frame electrics on a PlayStation controller is going to be a lot different then learning it on a lever for example. Hope that helps.
