"People who love to play in worlds" vs. "playing in your own world" really resonated with me. Perhaps that is why I love to play "Dead" games and/or just make my own.
Absolutely! I love marvel but I’m not super interested in playing a tactical combat between established heroes. But if you gave me the tools to play out superhero stories that may or may not include marvel heroes I’d be super excited!
I know a lot of people in their 20s who love the 40k lore and would want to play, but when you have a student loan payment larger than a mortgage and a doctor visit costs you $400 out of pocket due to the private insurance scam, and wages are down 30% from the prior generation, and GW minis now cost more than their equivalent weight in silver, there's no way.
Perhaps people should look at historical wargaming. The figures and path to entry are way less, the Lore (we call it history) it's far more brutal than anything GW can dream up and actually happened. For the past 5000 plus years mankind has been murdering each other over land, resources, power, control and sometimes just because.
In the interest of transparency, you should add that the potential immigrant to the UK will likely have to spend upwards of a year in uncomfortable temporary accommodation while their application is assessed and may end up being extradited to A Commonwealth country (and probably not their first choice). They will, of course, be free to spend as much of their capital on GW product in the meantime, while being prevented from earning a living.
Really enjoy the perspectives from two OG's in the scene, many lucid points by both of you. would dig for you guys to do a state of the industry talk every few months or so if feasible
Hey, 25yo here that jumped in at 20 in 2019. My LGS had just heard GW changed from a minimum order to a minimum stock, and jumped in to try to nurture a Kill Team 2018 community. They got their demo box assembled and I dipped my toes with a box of Orc Boys. Then Warcry happened. They popped an original box to demo with, and the system was so smooth and models characterful I fell in love. It wasn't long after I had a better job that let me spend more, diving deeper but still leaning on the store's terrain and cards. During its life cycle, I eventually bought all 3 big boxes of WarCry 1.0 because my LGS provided a low-cost gateway experience, the initial box's value was undeniable, and a collection was obtainable. I have since fallen off of Warcry since it's become laden with what feels like big box churn. To tie it back in, as Ash is saying, there isn't an achievable, momentous product in the line anymore. I can't say "if you want into the hobby and are uncertain if you'll love it, this will at least be a weird board game you can break out every now and again with enough varied terrain you never need more." What's replaced them is Kill Team's junk piles and barricades Starter Set, Crypt of Blood's fences and 2 walls, then the ghosts of Big Boxes past in the 2 Bands + 1 Piece of Terrain sets. Nothing GW produces, save maybe Blood Bowl S2, look like a real game, let alone a real battle. For Warcry, while they look rad, the Gnarloaks were a mistake because of how much real estate they took up on sprue and how fiddly they were to assemble, which has led to where the game sits now. As long as GW is still leading as the face with the product formats they are, it's gonna be a hard sell to get folks in who can't put up the change and don't have folks aroud who can support what they lack. PS. This year was also my first Adepticon. Saw you in the distance Thursday but didn't have my vest I wanted to collect autographs on at the time. Cursed when I saw I missed ya. XD
Great conversation from two of the best in the gaming community. I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned how hard it is for new people to get into the hobby. I am part of a huge Alpha Strike community in the Twin Cities metro, and at our store alone we have had 4 new players in the last few months who had attempted to get into the hobby through GW to find that their starter set was only a fraction of what they needed to play, and after trying the game with just the starter set they found it lacking. They all ended up up gravitating to Alpha Strike after talking to various people because the buy in to try it WITH A FULL ARMY is 70 dollar starter box. We essentially play a format where we play 250 points per scenario, which you select from a 350 point total list. You can build a complete 350 with the boxed set. If you want to change it up all you need to buy are a couple blisters of vehicles, maybe a stand or two of Battle Armor, and maybe another box of mechs. All that you can get for around 50-65 USD. Wish more of the games out there had a more accessible way to get started for new people. I really like that Catalyst and a lot of the smaller Indy games (the Relicblade starter springs to mind as a really well done one) are making true starter sets for new players, it’s just a shame that more loca stores don’t give Indy games a chance.
@@AlxParrish for sure! It's really easy to get into, you can play competitively, casually, or narratively just as easily, and the Wolfnet 350 community is fantastic and welcoming. I've made so many friends through it that I do stuff with beyond Battletech.
Listening to the talk about being 'overfed' and the churn in armies is interesting. Dave Sirlin is a game designer who wrote a fascinating book about competitive play experiences and how the core of a good competitive game is that the rules don't change - or at least don't change quickly - so that players have the opportunity to develop mastery. All tabletop wargames evolve over time which prevents that to some extent, but I feel like Games Workshop products in particular suffer from trying to chase a competitive playerbase for a game which is fundamentally antagonistic to a truly competitive mindset.
The depressing part about this is that GW (and other game companies) keep being pushed by a part of that competitive playerbase that is very vocal on the internet about how a game must be balanced and updated as fast and often as possible. I came to wish for the games I play not to be updated before a couple years, like the time of old GW. Pun intended with The Old World project now, but I genuinely came to wish game designers pause for a longer time on that trend.
I've been thinking about this a lot recently. Sixth edition Warhammer is considered one of gws greatest hits, there is a huge amount of nostalgia for that time and those rules and it's interesting that sixth edition lasted six years. from gws position they considered this period stagnant, they didn't feel they were moving enough product, they felt they were in trouble, so this is probably where the crystallised 3 or 4 year game lifecycle came from. But that "stagnancy" led to a golden age for wargamers where metas developed naturally rather than being essentially being pushed down from above every 3 months. I don't know the best way to handle the introduction of new rules or rebalances into a games ecosystem, but I think at this point it's fair to say gws current method isn't good.
@@Anarcho_slimer I honestly think the competitive scene is eventually going to kill the game, like they did in Warmachine / Horde or even with Guild Ball. Indies definitely aren't immune to that phenomenon, we can also see that in Mantic Games' Kings of War where the push for competitive scene and need for "balance" is taking more and more time from game designers. Corvus Belli and Para Bellum too. And when you try to talk about that on social medias, more often than not, people advocating that balance is the only thing that matters for being "a good game" are definitely more vocal than the others - and try to silence other voices by saying they're "in the minority". It's really a vicious cycle, IMHO. That's why I totally understand Ash when he said he hopes competitive scene will not be taking over The Old World - and sadly, what I see on my TOW group, that move is already trying to happen from old Warhammer Battle tournament players.
@@sentaijustice9207 As a game designer myself, I would say you want 10-15 years. Let games be generational, as opposed to episodic. Add new stuff rather than changing rules. Be more thoughtful about the rules in the first place, or tell people to stop caring about the rules and give them better ways to play stories instead. The current "Objectives with points" based games really don't do stories well at all. It all feels so empty of meaning. Yet Campaigns are near impossible to get going. We need something different on that front for sure. I think the reason people push more changes faster is the search for the solution to this emptiness. Perhaps something similar to the lifepath roller on some RPGs, but for battles, whereby you get a detailed (not 3 step, like : mission/layout/submission, but rather "Army A is [low on supplies] due to [dire wolves] but must [attack]. Army B [Has an incompetent commander] who [says we must counter charge rather than holding the defenses]." This is a much better and more "living" way to set up the standard "Meeting Engagement" whereby you now now what is happening and why to some degree, and so you can actually have a narrative game at the table without needing a gamemaster with 10 hrs on hand to plan it.
We need the both of you to do more shows/streams together - two greats of the indie game scene coming together. Your energy with each is just fantastic!
Great discussion. There's another aspect to miniature agnostic. Like you go into a shop, buy a bunch of GW miniatures you like, Buy the rulebook and start reading the rules. Realise the models you like and want to paint suck for actually playing the game. So I think it is nice to de-couple the hobby side from the gaming side somewhat, while still keeping some WYSIWYG.
I think a lot of the age stuff you're noticing is just the way the economy has played out for younger generations. I'm very fortunate that my wife and I could afford a house, but when we were renting, we kind of based out lives on the assumption that we might have to move in a year. I'm not getting into a hobby with build-in storage and workspace requirements if I'm going to have to pick up and move in a few months. I'm certainly not getting into something at GW's price point at that stage. Even though I've been able to afford to get into the hobby now, I still can't fly out to Adepticon. I can barely afford to take the time off at this point, much less drop the money on a flight, hotel, and pass -- and if I'm spending that kind of money, I'm spending it on something my wife and kids will enjoy, too.
You’re right about the age of people playing and going to conventions. I think that Atom is right, it’s money. Prices, at least in the USA, have increased while salaries have remained static.
My 13 year old son has gotten HEAVILY into Warhammer over the past two years, and we both went to Adepticon for the first time this year. He loved it, and it seemed to further solidify his interest in the hobby. We didn’t see many other young folk there, though. He’s even hesitant to try and get his friends into the hobby because he realizes how expensive it is and he doesn’t want to saddle them with that money drain. 😅
If he's interested in 3D printing there's that option. And it will teach him new skills along the way to collecting a Warhammer army Alternatively your son could start with Kill Team or Stargrave or the like. Something with a low model count so it would be easier to get friends into the game or to just have multiple forces
on the topic of licensed games: I developed Mobile Arms to be the quintessential "Armored Core" experience on the tabletop. We developed it and BSS ran the backroom to fund it in 2023, and about a month and a half before Adepticon... the tabletop rights for Armored Core 6 went up for grabs. I'm excited to build out an original setting, but it's always interesting to think about the possibility if we had held off development by 6 months.
What got my son into miniature games was my Heroscape game and all the miniatures I had collected for it. That was a great game. Preprinted minis, cool geomorphic, stackable game board pieces, nice terrain, character cards, and simple rules with some dicey goodness. Him and I played the hell out of that game. From there, he got into This Is Not A Test, and then 40k. Now we play Stargrave, Reign In Hell, Space Weirdos, and The Doomed, to name a few we love. Still have Heroscape, and we crack it open now and then just to play it like when he was 7. It's still a fun game.
My two favorite miniature war gamers at the same time. I don’t even play miniature games, save for X-Wing miniature first edition, Mage Knight skirmish game and HeroClix. I play with friends, not competitive at all. I can just sit, watch and be so drawn into the great content created. Amazing episode!
I didn't realize Uncle Atom got into the hobby at a later age, but I went to most of the US Games Days in Baltimore through the 90s, and I can say first hand that a very large proportion of the attendees were young people. A large number were teenagers, let alone 20-somethings. For there to be hardly any young people at these conventions hanging around GW's booths, is crazy sounding.
You mentioned the improvement in the mini's for Conquest, it's because they switched to Archon Studios (in Poland) making their stuff. Very good quality.
Lovely conversation. My little group, ‘The Three Musketeers’ (clue’s in the name), were pleasantly surprised that we could get Silver Bayonet Egypt at the Salute London show in April 24 (6 weeks early). Our first game, with painted minis, terrain and monsters will be next month (October). That is a real life gaming cycle for just three gamers. GW and others, release products faster than even Contrast Paints can cope with.
Such a blessing and treat to see Adam on your show, Ash. Love both of your channels, and this was such a great conversation between two legends of the industry! Cheers!
When you talk about yourselves as veterans of the scene, with underappreciated wisdom, I'm reminded of one of my favourite Horus Heresy characters, Iacton Qruze, 'The Half Heard' who was, like your good selves, just awesome.
The problem is, pocket money doesn't buy you any Warhammer, at all. If you're a teenager, you might get one squad for your birthday, or one vehicle for Christmas, and that's it. You can't grow a collection that way. GW price rises combined with the increases in cost of living, and almost unaffordable housing, both sides of the Atlantic, are shutting out younger players financially dependent on their parents, and slightly older players working two jobs and just about able to cover their rent. Warhammer is really for guys like me, in their 40s with a decent amount of discretionary budget each month; but even we're moving onto other games like KoW, Malifaux and Infinity. Warhammer is exhausting.
In my v.early teens, a blister pack of 5 (!) lead models was £2.50, which rose to £2.99, and something like Skeleton Horde with sprues for 30 plastic models and loads of spares and scope to model and improv was £5. As a teenager I could play. My understanding now is that a plastic model as part of a box set is about £5 ($7-$) each...
That's one big reason I love Malifaux so much. Just pick a boss box and your ready. It's very simple to build your force compared to bigger game like warhammer
@@marcusanderson2157Malifaux is perpetually that "in between" game that people pick up toward the end of an edition of their main game when they need something new, and it immediately suffers a quick death as soon as a new edition of said main game releases. It took Warmachine and Guild Ball's market niche in that regard.
UK wargames shows are usually well balanced with families (typically father son, but not restricted to this this) as well as the older types (which sadly im slipping in to!).
Agree, tend to see a lot of kids in GW shops, Warhammer world and element games as well. Plus lots of families playing at our local club, in some tourneys like AoS and Blood Bowl.
Very interesting conversation about wargaming and the companies. You made a comment about the midsized companies and although it doesn't look like they're in the fantasy and Sci-Fi space they do exist in the Historical space. I don't know if Warlord are Large or Mid sized but companies like Perry Miniatures and Victrix are both sitting rather comfortably in that space and for with multiple ranges without being all things to all men. Maybe that is because people like me who got into 40K 5 years ago and hit that point in our hobby lives where we want to try New things and new games do move across to add historical games into our gaming rotation.
This was a really spectacular conversation. FTW it's worth, I absolutely resonated with the segment about release cycles and the time it takes to complete (larger) projects, i.e. the big GW games. It's one of the reasons I've pivoted to other rule sets... and am glad I never got around to actually assembling that Drukhari army I started to pick up boxes for in 9th. Most of that army would have been unusable at this point.
This collaboration is such a breath of fresh air. Hearing from two individuals that I respect greatly for their bravery and honesty in content creation and advocating for this wonderful hobby.
I was at Salute in London this year and there was a good spread of age groups from kids to oldies, and this is an expo which is traditionally historical focused. It's more a general wargaming expo now but no GW. I found it really encouraging and want to take my young daughter next year.
This was one of the most intelligent, well-informed and insightful conversations about the hobby I've heard. Great video. Please consider a podcast with both of you
I know one thing . In the 90s the hobby was SUPER expensive (our parents nade 100-150$ per month), yet we still played. Games grew, stuff changed , more games and game companies came. What l noticed now , all across my country, is that there are no kids, no teens. Gamers are mid 30s , early 40s. It is a miracle to find a 20y old. I have no idea, how the hobby is going to look here in 10 years, never mind 20.
That is such a good discussion. And parallels my entry very closely. I started with xwing (prepainted!), tried runewars minis, couldnt get a game and got "squatted". Then said:"self, what is the biggest faction of the biggest game?" Ultramrines, 40k..so that's where I went. Pretty indie/skirmish gamer now with our little group, but really, to a newbie, 40k is the elephant to this day.
Imagine this being a regular. Maybe just like... once a month. These two titans with an occasional third guest person. Doing a deep dive "we were soldiers" talk. Daaaaaaaaamn.
Having ran a ttrpg/wargame club for ~3 years in college, having graduated a couple years ago - people loved 40k but no one could afford it. We just played OPR and printed minis because a printer was cheaper and the OPR army builder website was fantastic. Another factor was Critical Role / Dimension20 got people into ttrpgs. There wasn't anything like that for wargaming. Everyone played ttrpgs, about 1/10 played wargames. Some of my earliest memories are my dad playing Dawn of War and he loved reading the Horus Heresy books but if it wasn't for him would I ever had found it?
The Battletech Simulators were at Navy Pier in Chicago back in the day. The play experience was luke warm for me. I ended up walking and walking and walking at the fringes of the map and barely got to fight. Very much the player's ability in my case. I remember not being impressed with the graphics. Anyhow, great memories with friends (I think six of us ended up heading up there)!
Dave and Busters in Schaumburg is where I remember playing them as well. For some reason the gameplay clicked well for me and I walked away with a high score while everyone else was frustrated with how slow it was. Lol
I have found a really good near beer. I still enjoy a good beer with friends. The na beer has no alcohol yet the hops seems to give me an altered state of mind. There is such a large variety of alcohol free beers,I don't feel like I,m really missing out on a fun time. Cheers,your friend in Cheyenne, Bayard Bray.
I find the comments about Adepticon and kids interesting as when I was a kid I was very into Warhammer but never thought I'd be able to go to conventions/Games Day because my parents weren't interested. Over here in the UK I now see lots of kids at UKGE and even a decent number at Warhammer Fest last year (Essen in Germany is also popular with families). Those conventions are more like Gencon though, from my understanding, as they have RPGS, board games and wargames. Similarly there is a big push into youth groups etc with the school clubs and Scout badges. I think it is much more visible to kids now than it was even in the UK in the 90s (when it felt like most boys my age had at least heard of Warhammer and maybe had a few minis). Perhaps it will always feel that way in the UK though with our bigger density of Warhammer stores.
You two are some of my top 10 personalities to listen to on my commute or during painting. This video was dynamite. I'd love to see (hear? lol) more y'all chatting about anything tabletop!
I remember going to the Baltimore Games Days. One year my Aunt drove my friend in I (we were around 12ish) and the lady at check in said "oh! It's so nice that your grandma brought you!" Yep, we are still getting jokes out of that 25+ years later! Sad that you didn't see younger folks at the con.
This was interesting to listen to. As to why there isnt alot of younger people at adepticon, there's a plethora of possible reasons. Part of it is a slow growth of interest into the hobby of assembling, painting, then playing, then you have the competition for attention with RU-vid, Tiktok, and gaming, on top of overall cost of entry and the problems with economies in USA, Canada, and the rest of the world.
Brilliant vid guys. Love battletech from the first release (69 yo) the lore is complete to the game current date, so the original novels are as valid now. The best game I ever gamemastered my friend came to me at the break mid game and said "we're not playing Gangster are we? We're playing Call Of Cuthulu." I'm now enjoying discovering the Fallout universe.
Its funny as I came back to WH40k after 20+ years - just collecting now - but what is going on there is insane. Naturally as a teenager even if there was a 3 year period for an edition it would have sounded like half a lifetime, but now as 40 year old to me this is just too fast to keep up. And like you guys said its always just about the next thing... I thought of getting ready to play in 10th edition again, but at this point, I've taken a snapshot of the rules, codicies and moved on to homebrewing what I want the game to be instead of keeping up with this constant movement. Ash put it correctly, there is a beauty in a complete game that is no longer being updated. Contrary to video games fixing the small issues you have with it is doable for everybody so then you can relax and enjoy it.
Thank you for the video. It was interesting for someone not in the hobby. As a board gamer and rpg'er, I know myself and some others would be interested in skirmish/wargaming--- but there is little interest in building or painting miniatures. 3d printing and etsy have made the building part a bit better-- but the painting issue is still there. Lots of blobs of grey on a battlefield isn't too fun.
Another great conversation! On the subject of miniature agnostic modern rules, I'd love to see some coverage of Mike Hutchison's 'Hobgoblin'. Seems like something that would fit the channel well.
Fan of both channels. Been watching since I started wargaming back in 2021 (3yrs now) and currently 27. The biggest issue to wargaminh from my experience has been trying to find space and time to play. For stuff like dnd, we were able to transition online to maintain weekly games. But wargames need people to meet in person and depending how far you live from each other, it becomes tough to enjoy. In my group, I'm the main one with table space and well room to play and host wargame hangouts. But some people live 30min - 1hr 30min apart from me so they can't come regularly to game. And as we became older with jobs, when we meet up, some people just wanna chat and play some video games since there is only 2s set up and you're good to go, where as a wargame is 10min setup and 1hr for one game.
I have my own list of reasons for a decline and you guys covered a lot of it. I like minis-neutral games. We just need more manufacturers in North America to make 15mm. Cheap over seas manufacturing is going away and 15mm is cost effective and transportable. I want to point out One Hour Wargames, One Hour Skirmish Games and Hordes of the Things as great games whos rules don't care where you buy your minis. And shout out to Steel Rifts...I still need to get things painted and on the table but I like the 'lore light' approach as well.
Around the 42:00 minute mark, I like your comment on defining what a complete collection is for you. I bought a bunch of Riot Quest stuff for myself in 2020 and 2021, and again a little while later - basically enough for 6 people to run 6-man teams, or for 4 people to draft 6-man teams with a free agent pool plus all the maps and some of the expansions. I created my own ecosystem. Instead of trying to convince my gaming group to buy the game, or their own team in the game, I just bought what I wanted/thought looked cool. But I didn't buy everything. I just bought what I wanted to keep games diverse and interesting. I think it is important for people engaging in a hobby like this to not feel the need to be a completionist -- set a realistic goal for yourself, and try to achieve that. Then you can move on to something else...
The whole economic environment is extremely difficult for young people today. In 1975, in the USA, gasoline was 34 cents a gallon and the national minimum wage was $2.10/hour. So, if you’re working at an Amazon warehouse, making $15-$18 an hour, you’re making less than minimum wage from a 1975 perspective. Big Mac 40 cents. Brand new Chevy Nova $3600. Four bedroom house in a upper middle class neighborhood $45,000. Property taxes $40-$50 a month.
I’m 66 years old. I can assure you that’s not true. Maybe at the top end of the wage scale, if you’re making a 6 figure salary. But for the average kid making $15-$20k a year at an entry level job it’s ridiculous. My grandson brings home $250/week at a part time job. $235/ month payment on a used car. $158/mo auto insurance. Phone bill is probably at least $80 with a plan. Gas probably about $100 a month at least. Doesn’t leave much for food and entertainment. In 1975 $20 was a simple dinner, movie tickets and drinks after for 2 people. Now that gets you two Big Mac meals at Mickey D’s.
Yes, of course. My point is that wage growth, at the lower end of the earnings curve has not kept pace with inflation. Which means that the young people the the presenters aren’t seeing at conventions, have comparatively less disposable income now, and may not be able to afford a pretty pricey hobby like tabletop gaming.
Interesting that Mantic hasn't come up in the discussion. I haven't tried any of their ranges yet, but the Deadzone and Kings of War starters seem like great entry points to me.
Being priced out of the churn from big name games has been great in some weird ways. There are so many fantastic games from smaller press outfits and indy creators. Add a 3d printers and man, the options are even better. Garage gaming has always been my jam. Meta chase is not for me. Thanks to the coverage you gave "The Last War" I've been printing things for scenarios and making my crew. It's a blast. If you did a tutorial on how you made the terrain you used, I missed it. The more I think about it, the more the mad rats nest of trenches makes sense as a way to make "hills". The knuckleduster files are great and are just so perfect for the mood.
The entire gaming industry and in some ways many of the toy companies (what is the ratio of adult Lego kits to kids kits these days?) have skewed away from recruitment and are more focused on the adults that have the money and high nostalgia feelings. As a manager of a large Game Store, I can tell you the amount of kids playing games is minuscule compared to the adults. On weekends most of the kids in my store are the ones that are there because their parents want to purchase a game for themselves, not really for the kids. Some buy for their kids, but the vast majority is for the parents. The greatest recruiters in the past 10 years used to Pokemon and then the market exploded for that game, it mostly skewed to adults collecting cards and kids were unable to get product in a lot of ways. For game stores it was great for making money, for the industry in general I think time will tell a different story. Our Pokemon nights are about 90% adults these days. Ironically Wizards of the Coast was one of the greatest recruiter for new players with the advent of celebrities, Critical Role, and Stranger Things bringing Dungeons and Dragons to the public in general (before Hasbro messed up). I have been saying for years now that the Venn Diagram of the gaming industry is all about recruitment from the other styles of games rather than being focused on new younger players from outside their current clientele and the gamer population. Ultimately that self contained population is getting older and will get smaller and smaller over time. Much like many of the points Ash and Adam (sounds like a cartoon network show in the making) make in this video, the industry is not focusing on long term and hyper focused on the short term. The new release orientation of GW is just another example of a myopic view. Grab this hot new thing for an army! You want to expand your army, well over half that is not available. But look we have another brand new thing!
This was a great chat, and some great point. It's funny because I love many IP board games, but I don't have that same pull towards licensed minis games (except Cyberpunk but that's a pretty extensive and open world for them to play in).
Something hit me during this discussion. I'm the guy that has an interest in smaller and miniature agnostic games, but as someone who go into this playing X-Wing 2.0, then Legion and now Crisis Protocol....I've got nothing to use. People talk about kitbashing, but I have nothing to bash. I'm the guy who needs the direction on what to buy when a small or agnostic game is released. It feels like a lot of these games rely on people being GW customers with loads of scale appropriate miniatures to play with or kitbash and that's not always the case. So what am I doing? Looking to get into GW games or other 28mm games with existing kits to draw from. The weird thing is, I don't feel great about it because it's like feeding the beast. You two hit on a lot of good points.
Personally, in my experience indie/model agnostic games go hand-in-hand with 3D printing. I know that's not everyone's thing and creates its own barrier to entry, but it really is easier to get into those smaller games when you have the world of digital sculpts at your disposal. I've bought so many random rulebooks for indie games ever since I bought a de-facto minis factory to support them.
Wargames Atlantic, Maelstrom's Edge and the assorted Stargrave & Frostgrave minis from North Star Miniatures all come with lots of bits for kit bashing and making 'bespoke' forces.
Its an opportunity to discover indie mini manufacturers and find the models that work for what you want to do in the game and there are heaps. I am always torn with buying new pulp models from Crooked dice, the cool pirates and medieval models from black scorpion and so on etc. most mini agnostic games will have on their social media or sometimes on their site which manufacturers work for their game that they like, and you can either agree or find your own. You don’t have to buy any GW but a lot of people do. Now don’t stress about this, I am watching the new game Trench Crusade and new players are finding it and their first question is, do I have to use official models, can I convert, what about my GW models. Because lets face it GW does not have that discussion with you anymore. It’s a process to learn this stuff. Ive been gaming for 40 years and if someone wanted to play rank and flank ancients with me, I would have no idea where to start, despite seeing the game every meeting at my club.
It would have been great if Uncle Atom had the time to take on Ash in a game of "Wild In The Streets" for some red-hot punk on punk action. Thanks to both for a fun and interesting video.
Hearing you guys musing about the future of the hobby companies I think Mantic is doing the best of the mid-tier companies. They have a consistent yearly update cycle for their major games, have been buidling up their IP while also having licensed products, and have starter sets/boxes that are goof deals/loss leaders. The licensed Halo game they are making based off of their Deadzone rules is looking like a great entry into minature gaming. 2 close friends who I haven't been able to get into miniature gaming in nearly 2 decades of friendship instantly bought into the Halo game when I showed it to them. Catalyst is in a great spot right now too but I fear them losing some steam. From my point of view the Wolfnet Radio's 350 format is whats helping keep people enganged in the game. The plastic models with more modern sculpts gave a huge boost to the game but the weird licensing interactions between Catalyst and Iron Wind can hurt the game long term.
Yay for mentioning the dirty R. Good ole Reno. Also didnt get into minis till i was in my mid 30s and still havnt even played a game yet, mainly paint to relax. Hopfully i can convince friends to play the new darktide game with me, rules need to be simplier if you want more people to pick it up. Also price. Iv spent more money on my painting and minis setup than on my pc gaming and vr setup.
Board gaming is booming and seems to be the gateway for future minis gamers. Asmodee is a huge distributor/publisher of board games, having bought many smaller companies. GW has a presence in board games that are easy to play and have a few miniatures in them.
