The reason why ACEC was interested in electric armoured vehicles was that they produced the transmission system for the French Crotale SAM system 4x4 vehicles. These had an odd requirement, in that they needed a lot of electrical power for the radars when they were stationary, with no drive to the wheels, but very little when they were moving and the engine was revving highly and producing lots of power (the SAM system could only be operated when the vehicles were stationary). Normally, such a vehicle would have an auxilliary generator, but that would be dead weight when it was driving, so they came up with the idea of having a single diesel generator which could feed electric power to the wheels or the radars as required, and ACEC got the contract.
They also had good track record in electric-diesel train engine (and of course pure electric. They for instance developed the engines for the french TGV)
@@alecblunden8615 That would be a bit weird, since one could see a driver accidentaly pressing it during driving the vehicle, and starter motors reeeeaally like when you engage them on a already at speed spinning engine. Although, there could be a cutoff that disables the button if the engine is already running.
My EE Prof always joked "There are no electrical problems, only mechanical problems in electrical systems." and that you couldn't break electricity but you could break wires and all the other pieces of the system. lol
Poor old Chieftain looks as if he has been trying out those Belgian beers the previous night. They are lethal man. You can't drink them in pints or you end up getting too pissed hahah.
@@samholdsworth420 in the USA and Britain, "pissed-off" means angry. In the USA "pissed" is shorthand for pissed-off. But in Britain "pissed" means "drunk" (for whatever reason).
They were build 5km from my house in Charleroi ! The place didnt exist anymore (the shop/factory) and fun fact, Belgian Defense is rebuilding the place for a new barrack complex for medium infantry battalion ! What a fate !
@13:10 the button on the floor is probably an intercom trigger. The Apache has two that look almost exactly the same: floor mounted, big clicky button. One is for radio push to talk and the other is for intercom push to talk.
And, not just military trucks. I am old enough(82) to remember them on non military vehicles. The floor switch was next to the accelerator so that both could be reached with the same foot when starting the engine.
@@justforever96 Generators require a set RPM for a given voltage. Alternators allow the RPM to vary as they use voltage regulators. And in the video he says the engine was run at 3200rpm.
Love it. Thanks Chieftain!! 😊 When I heard a few months ago that you were going to be delving into the Belgian collection I was hoping you would cover the Cobra 🐍 Very little about it on RU-vid, yours is really the first in depth review 👍👍 And as a bonus you have already covered the Timoney and Valkyr💪 fair play to ya🙂
Kudos for your excellent pronunciation of the full name of the ACEC ! FYI "Ets" is short for "Établissement" in French, that is "company" / "corporation". Thank you so much for giving us Belgians an opportunity to discover these forgotten vehicles!
Moving the vehicle with a set of jumper cables to a following vehicle is about as clever as the story about jump starting the auxiliary power unit on a C-130 using a SeaBee truck (which then allowed the engines to start, etc.).
Lovely to see a vehicle just before computers became ubiquitous. It shows how much of the technological development in the last 40 odd years has been the ghost in the shell.
28 inch wall is 71cm, respectable enough. Okay an M2 Bradley will climb 3.0 ft (91 cm) but in was introduced in 1982, 5 years later. Singapore Armed Forces’ (SAF) next-generation armoured fighting vehicle (AFV) was unveiled in June 2016, it can climb 60cm of wall.
One thing that was found early on with wheeled armoured vehicles and electric motors is the motors are _too_ good when something slipped. This is for direct drive, mind you. If a wheel slipped, there's enough power and torque and instant response that the wheel gets accelerated to a rotational speed sufficient to rip the type off in chunks before the control electronics can react to stop this happening (reducing power and applying braking). So far, the only way around it is put in a drivetrain, which is rather counterproductive seeing that's one of the things you're trying to avoid to save weight. Ever seen a high speed video of a disc being spun fast enough to disintegrate? Yeah, that but with a LAV-25 tyre. So for now they're limited to tracked vehicles like the Ripsaw MS.
mining trucks are a really weird niche that it works in, those things are so heavy the regen actually saves the brakes and extends the service. really maybe theres a better way to do it than trucks to begin with
I'm waiting for All-EV APC's, IFV's, light tanks. Just have the power pack easily exchangeable (like 5 minutes). I believe some large truck tractors use this in Australia. It's high time someone tried it in a military combat vehicle, IMHO. ✌️
The WW2 Elefant self propelled gun (built as a competitor to the Konig Tiger) used a diesel electric drive train. The amount of copper required scuppered production after a hundred were built by Porsche.
I'm guessing the light tank wasn't supposed to be swimmable; since it doesn't have the deployable splashguard. But might have been nice to show its rear and see whether it carried the same props and rudders as the APC variant.
The 4 direction toggle switch I most likely for motor direction ei both forward, both reverse, left forward - right rev, left rev - right forward for turning in place based on other electric drive skid-steer vehicles from the 60s-80s..
40 years on, they should have another go. I'd like to know more about the pros and cons and why it has been so attractive an idea but never quite pulled off.
Unfortunately without some new advancement in technology, electric drive trains for armoured fighting vehicles are unlikely to become the norm for one simple factor: weight. For relatively small vehicles, an electric drive train is usually going to weigh more than a simply driveshaft. For a locomotive, extra weight is often an advantage, since extra weight equals extra traction, but for an AFV that extra weight would be better used elsewhere, be that in armour or ammo or half a dozen other things. For ships an electric drive train can weigh the same or even less than an equivalent mechanical drive train, particularly if the engineering spaces are located nearer to the amidships rather than at the aft, plus ships are less bothered by the slight weight increase. There's also another aspect, which interestingly these vehicles seemed to have suffered with, namely the extra complexity of an electric drive train. With the extra steps between the engine and the tracks, there's more failure points, so there's always going to be more chance of something braking. Now for ships an electric drive train gives more options, allowing the use of azimuth thrusters, which allowing better manoeuvrability while also eliminating the need for holes below the waterline for the driveshafts. And for locomotives an electric drive train is much easier to use with bogies since you only need an electric connection rather than hydraulic or mechanical linkages.
Honestly, Unconvinced - My battery electric vehicle (a Peugout van) weight 80kg more than the same model with a petrol engine. Beefy battery in, a lot of junk, transmission, filters, cables, gears out. And the electric motor, same power but ya' big, in Chieftain unit of measure. I'm not sure a combustion engine that have to do one single RPM regime(+fuel, filters)+two electric motors is much heavier that all the gearboxes, shafts, differentials, and assorted metak junk to bring power from a variable speed engine to final drives.
@@fabiogalletti8616 When the vehicle has an ICE it only needs batteries for starting the engine, and for reserve power should the engine need to be shut down.
The Diesel/electric concept is a good concept. The problem during WW2 was that the electrics just weren't up to service in an vehicle that was going to get shot at and operate over rough ground. Getting a reliable diesel electric design working on a locomotive is much easier. But with today's tech, there's no reason a diesel/electric drive system would not work and work well.
@@JeffHenry-cq3is Have a Google, it looks like something shy of 200 Leopard 1's have been promised / delivered to Ukraine. I've seen footage showing them in service.
Sir, that was a very interesting and thought provoking video. Thank you! One interesting side note. In the age of climate madness and CO2 paranoia. There have been huge developments in electrical powered and hybrid vehicles. One rare benefit could be technology is approaching the point where true diesel electric drive for AFV's is actually the preferable form of propulsion. Diesel engines are the most energy efficient ever, as are the various new designs of electric motor. Battery technology has advanced at an incredible pace too. However, the greatest leap forward has been in the computer controlled management systems. Making integration of hybrid drives super reliable. Special thanks going to people such as Elon Musk. The term whispering death may no longer be reserved for those lethal electric powered milk floats of my youth.
Very interesting,as for motion sickness, I have experienced that in a British 432 apc whilst on exercise in soltau ,it was exacerbated by the smell of unwashed infantrymen (especially in the gentlemans area ,think rancid gorgonzola!🥴🤮🥵,all the best from sunny Troon 😊
I had some of my guys get motion sick in the back of a M-113 while we tried to stay with a company of M-1 Abrams when the CO said expedite across the washboard desert of Fort Irwin. Not fun, nor combat effective.
I've seen/ experienced that even in BFV's to there and other places. M113 can be choppy on washboard travel. Probably the reason I haven't experienced being "seasick, carsick or airsick" yet. 🤔👍 Formerly 11B who has been light, mech and heavy mech units.
Interesting, hadn't realised that they were still trying hybrid vehicles back then. Some of the modern constant speed engines are getting simple enough to be considered for this sort of use now though, there's a two stroke, 4 cylinder, opposed piston (so 8 pistons) one that if scaled up slightly (it only weighs 35 kg and develops something like 120 hp at 500 cc) could be a good fit.
I can see the problem in reverse: there is for sure a safety to switch off if water get in. But at this point, it's all dead, not only the engine and steering, but radio, swinging seats, lights. How sensible you want that safety switch?
They use it in heavy equipment and locomotives and ships all the time so they must have figured it out. Hell they supply trains from overhead cables and rails and they work in the rain just fine.
If water gets into your amphibious APC your first concern is drowning. Electric safety in water-occupied areas was figured out just about a century ago.
The foot button looks like a push to talk button for the intercom radio? Just a guess but that's what it does on them Huey helicopters and it's variants.
Yes but that is expected to go at freeway speeds. With gearing heavy equipment rarely has much more than a couple hundred horsepower unless it's really heavy. And when you are only doing town speeds your car is only using 20-30 HP most of the time. How often do you run a normal car up to the redline at wide open throttle? That's the only time it's using it's rated power, except at top speed.
Makes me want to move to Alaska or somthing and convert it to a mobile camper that thing's got a Lot of space! Or a mobile recovery vehicle for when people get stuck. And it's got a cummins. The only problem is if the electrical needs to be serviced.... honestly might have been simpler with a hydrostatic drive..🤔 chasing electrical issues on a off-road vehicle is always a way bigger pain in the ass imo.
Tracked vehicles always take a ton of maintenance anyway. And you had better be rich already if you want to afford the fuel and stuff to drive one of these regularly.
Brave decision to wear that red jumper getting in and out of all these oddball vehicles Nic, I keep expecting you to end up like Hammond in that one doomsday prepper bit from Top Gear where the jumper snags and then slowly unravels throughout the bit.
@@justforever96 It was actually from The Grand Tour, episode 9 of season 1 from what IMDB says, my brain just misremembered it as Top Gear because Grand Tour is essentially Top Gear perfected and shitty top gear isn't worthy of the name.
Actually, some trains have a (permanent) magnet less DC motor, (100% torque at 0 rom) that switches to AC once you're moving. Not sure if the Diesel drives an Alternator or a Generator, (with the proper circuits to convert to the power type needed) or like the Motors it can transition from DC to AC and back again....
want one.. for shopping ofcourse. Loads of space for stuff in the back, can go electric in the "no emmission zone"in our city centre and still annoys the cops because it has no windowwhipers to stick a fine under because i parked it on top of a sh*tty merc. XD
Cool review, Chieftain! I never knew about this vehicle before. Anyhow, I think the future of electric armored vehicles may involve removable battery packs which can be switched out quickly, and regeneration via the return rollers and idler whenever steering or braking. A support vehicle with a small diesel engine would tag along behind to provide freah batteries to swap, and recharge the old ones. This of course would take an entire rethinking and rewriting of current doctrine in any nation's army, and won't likely happen for another 50 years. For now, things will probably be diesil electric hybrids, using something similar to current train locomotives and this thing(with the electrical bugs sorted out...omg, power operated seats in a military vehicle, what were they thinking!? I could understand if it was built by Cadillac or Mercedes Benz, since luxury is their priority, but I digress.)
I've never been fond of turbo-electric or even diesel electric propulsion. The US Navy has tried it many times, and the results have been generally unsatisfactory. Porsche tried, too, didn't get much better results; I'm automatically suspicious.
Steam engines actually haul weight better than either electric or diesel engines, in the context of trains and railways. There was a demonstration a while ago of a single Big Boy hauling a load up a hill that would have taken 6 SD60's.
The electric seats gave me a hearty chuckle. It makes me wonder if anyone has ever just used automobile seats in a armored vehicle? Has anyone dropped a heated leather seat into it from the factory?
This was ACEC's first (and unfortunately, only) attempt at a military vehicle, so it's not surprising that there were a few oddities like that. It's too bad the Cobras didn't get any orders, since they seem like good vehicles for their day. And if the diesel-electric drive did well in active service, you'd probably have seen the major players in the industry copying ACEC.
@@DB-yj3qc yeah, I just find it funny though. The govt will spend $10million dollars on a tank but God help them if someone could ask to have for example a Toyota Tundra seat installed for the driver for like $400. Or maybe a seat from a tractor trailer that has air ride suspension on the seat.
Admittedly it would probably be hard to stuff a car seat through a tank hatch but if I was a tanker, I would definitely try to do so with the first seats from a battle damaged car I found. I would definitely at least bolt the extra seats to the turret basket so I could have a comfy spot to sit when the tank is stopped.
I think one of the big differences now, compared to the other times the electric motor came into fashion is how much more mainstream electric vehicles have become everywhere else. It's clear as day that EV's aren't going anywhere. So maybe we'll actually start to see some keen progress on the military side.
@fabiogalletti8616 nice! I drive a BEV as well. I mean, they aren't going away. They are certainly taking over. So it seems we're bound to see this stuff in the military soon.
@@birdmonster4586 Batteries may take a while, but everythig in the automotive world ends in tanks, once mature - automatic gearboxes, for example. I wonder if the eletropumps-hyropneumatic steering gitzmo that 70s tech required can't be simply replaced by today direct control of the sprocket motors, IMHO.
Perhaps this left foot switch is the so called motor brake and to stall the engine when shutting off? some Mercesdes and MAN trucks I once drove had this
