Coming up for sale at the Rock Island Auction Company, May 3-5 2019, the Multiple Gun Motor Carriage M16, with all the dakka a man could want. Vehicle sold for $97,750
I was at the RIA May auction and got pics with that M16 half track, also met the guy that bought it. Fun fact: My grandfather was in Patton's armored division. The quad 50 mounts were electrically controlled. There were no service manuals available when they were shipped to Europe. They were in boxes in the US... If the M45 failed in the field, no one knew at 1st how to trouble shoot or fix it in the field. Some big wig caught wind that my grandfather was an electrician as a civilian. He was tasked to make field manuals with wiring diagrams, as well as how to make simple tools, such as a soldering iron from a carbon pile, a bit of wire, an alligator clip, and a 50 cal shell minus the primer and powder. It worked, and I gave 1 to my cousin as a keepsake. It was really neat to see 1 in person. Glad you did the vid on it!
Sounds like your granddad was a handy guy to have around; seems to me like he should've gotten some kind of medal or decoration for service above and beyond. Anyway, remember him, and any stories he told, because the farther away WW2 gets, the less the succeeding generations learn about it.
Germany: pretends that their whole army is mechanized with half tracks and trucks The US: decides to mechanize their whole army with half tracks and trucks in order to keep up Congratulations, you’ve played yourself.
The German military was never mechanised as is written about them. Luck etc made them win the few major wars in Europe. The Germans were using horses to bull the gun carriages of the artillery. And many times the German advance was so far forward their was no artillery support for them. Horses and carts was the German army as seen during invasion of the western allies seen in 1944 film photographs and stills that are recorded in history. The Germans were far from ready for war.
@@bmcg5296 They did definitely get lucky, luckier than they should've been, though I think their early victories can also be blamed on the incompetence of French high command. That, and the diplomatic work between the Nazis and Commies early on. Of course it should be no surprise given their philosophy that the Nazis deluded themselves into thinking this meant they could take on the world.
More than 2 milions of horses were in constant service in german armed forces ..by whole war. They had always about W milions of horses in service..horses pulled artilery ..pulled carts with suplies etc.
My Imperial Guard Armor Company has lain sadly unused for many years, but remains vigilant in the service of the Emperor against the Xeno scum and Chaos traitors.
@@JiggleWiggleBagel actually those could there are weak points in the abrams like the side of the turret and rear and engine deck and the drivers section
I hope this turns into an arms race. “Hi guys! Thanks for tuning in to another episode on forgottenweapons.com. I’m Ian McCollum, and I’m here today at Île Longue taking a look at the Marine Nationale’s M51 Mer-Sol-Balistique-Stratégique.”
An old friend of mine was in the Philippines. A Japanese sniper had thier column stopped and the commander called one of these to the front to take out the treetops, where the sniper was supposed to be. It comes up and let's loose, taking the tops off a dozen trees. The sniper was found, half on the ground and the other half still tied to the tree about 20 feet above the ground. His guts were still connected. Them old guys can sure tell stories, but this one really bothered him for some reason.
I was just driving my halftrack today. Using it to level a road with a drag box. Some additional facts: They have a early form of power brakes that use suction to help pull the brake peddle. This suction comes from both the intake and the mechanical fuel pump. That large steering wheel will rip your hand off if you hit a curb at a bad angle. You don’t need a crane to replace tracks. You just place a spacer block between two nuts to keep the boogies from dropping when you jack it up. Loosen the tracks and pull off the rear idler ring. Me and my buddy did it. You are right about these things being simple and easy to fix. When I bought mine it was a rusted out mess, but many parts that looked beyond repair worked perfectly after cleaning. We really did build things better back then.Another fact. These beasts are sorta quiet on the outside, not like a tank, but loud on the inside! Also they are street legal
A friend found one abandoned in the bush in Alaska. He had surprisingly very little maintenance to do to get it functional. This was in 84 and the rubber tracks showed some dry rot but still worked.
20:54 joy is a severe understatement. At the tender age of 15 I had the privilege of controlling and firing an M45 quad mount. Only one gun was loaded, and with blanks at that, but the experience was truly awesome!
Doing some research for a paper some years ago I was surprised to find a few action reports that these Quad 50's were devastating during the "Battle of the bulge". One report noting that a German unit 200+ marched right up to one in parade formation thinking it was a captured US vehicle being used at the beginning of the offensive by some of Skorzeny's "special units", the US gunner seeing the opportunity after the officer leading the German unit waved at him and he in turn stood up and waved back and let the "parade" get close and then opened up on them with devastating results. Another report these were used to repel a German recon in force searching for an allied fuel dump (the largest in battleground Europe at the time) stopping them less than 200-300 yrds from discovering the dump.
My uncle 2nd Marine div ww2 was in Artillery 155 tow their antiaircraft consisted of a truck mounted quad .50 while a Japanese tank was trying to flank them. UNCLE said the gunner used 3 or four short burst to destroy the tank.
Robert Payne There wasn't much to those light Japanese tanks, they basically had the same thickness of armor the half tracks did. A ma deuce with AP Ammo would could make quick work of them.
More like you use the glass only when training and driving around as a rear area transport, and you remove it when you enter a combat zone where you are likely to need the armor. Most of these things never got anywhere near enemy fire, and you usually had plenty of warning before you entered a place where people were shooting (especially for the half track transports these are based on; they aren't meant to drive out onto the battlefield under fire to deliver their troops, the armor is just so they CAN be used in a combat zone without undue vulnerablity). Like how they steam around in big battleships with covers over the gun muzzles. If they ever had to send a crew out in a big hurry to remove those so they could shoot, then someone messed up big time. In fact they usually had to take all the deck rails down, and a thousand other things to get the ship from cruising mode into battle mode. Or the external gun barrel locks on tanks. Or the tarpaulin covers over guns on other vehicles. Hell, they once thought it was a good idea to make Christie tanks with tracks that could be removed for transport so it could drive on roads at high speed. To prepare for combat you had to get out and spend half an hour fitting the tracks on. The ditched this idea, but not because they were afraid of having to jump out under fire to put the tracks on).
When he said 3 1/2 gallons to the mile (17:24), I was shocked for a moment. But when he said the range was around 200 miles, I realized he meant miles to the gallon.
An understandable mistake. He's a tanker, so he always thinks in terms of gallons to the mile. Thanks for figuring this out; I'll take your word for it, too lazy to do the math myself.
I know he doesn't work for them, but god almighty do I love the meat grinder in War Thunder. It's a Texan's wet dream. It's a truck, it's a tank, it's covered in machine guns. Just put a BBQ pit and a cooler full of beer in the back, and you got a party.
Confirming this to be true. I replaced it with the M15 CGMC, used that I think twice, then immediately went back the the M16. It's stupidly good fun and tears anything lighter than a tank to ribbons
I've been following Ian for years and love what he does with "pop guns". But Nick is right, after being a tanker and shooting a 105 mm main gun any hand held firearm is a pop gun.
T'anks 10e6 for all the details, esp. about specs and their use in Korea. My uncle was a gunner of an M1917 (.30 cal water cooled), and his life was saved by a quad .50 half-track. His position had gone through all their (generous) ammo supply, and the DPRK soldiers just kept climbing over the bodies. When the 4x.50 crew responded, they continued the defense. My uncle had been bayoneted twice, and lost some toes to frostbite, but he was lucky. His crewmates, sadly, were all deceased or mortally wounded by the time the half-track arrived.
I learned about the M16 from two men I worked with. One crewed a M16 in Normandy. They would break into a field and spray the bocage with .50 cal fire. A good example of ground use. A LTC I worked for was a AAA officer in Korea. His platoon originally had four M16s and four 40MM dusters (M42s I think). The dusters were replaced with four more M16s and they provided supporting fire in a ground mode for the Second Infantry Division . They did have the opportunity to utilize plunging fire in some operations and fired over hills to engage enemy. An aside to the story was that in a platoon of eight M16s the oldest man was the platoon sergeant. He was 21. My boss, the platoon leader, was 20.
Good video to watch with a few minor points. Original switches on halftracks had a key in the switch which could be pulled to prevent theft. The push-button starter switch sat in a position right below the switch (Thus the hole above the after market switch in the video was actually installed in the original push-button position). Original fuel tanks had a rubber coating and were a self sealing fuel tank. Converted M16 tracks for Korea like the M16A2 were given an additional 12" ring to elevate the M45F Maxson turret, and the fold down armor was bolted up in the corners. In addition, a Packard slip ring like the ones used in the Sherman Tanks was installed under the turret to provide both communications to the gunner and provide the ability to charge the halftrack battery from the turret generator or the turret batteries from the halftrack generator. In addition a rear door was installed on the M16A2 to provide easier access to the gun compartment and two storage boxes were also added at the rear of the track on either side of the door similar to the 16A1 models. All original M16s came with a winch where the A1s could have a winch or ditching roller depending on the vehicles previous nomenclature. The additional armor added to the turret for Korean War is called Bat-Wing armor. Not trying to be clever, just sharing some information that might be helpful to all interested parties. My M16A2 is currently on display at the National Museum of the US Air Force (NMUSAF) in Dayton Ohio for an 18 month loan. It was recovered from East Africa in 2007 and is completely original to include its paint. Check it out if interested on my website AQProject.org
"As far as I can tell these are dummies but I've not doubt that some owner of a M45 somewhere has the appropriate permits and has put 4 live caliber 50 on it. Sadly I cannot demonstrate the joy which would result." LMFAO!
The thing is, a person wouldn't need permits if they were happy with using semi-auto M2s. Not as fun as the full auto version but no $200 NFA tax stamp and each gun is likely to be a lot cheaper.
In high school, the principal gave my US History class a presentation with pictures of his experience in Vietnam as a USMC artilleryman. He said they used a quad-.50 mount to extend their defensive perimeter by cutting down trees. The disc brake on the driveshaft is still a very popular modification for trucks and jeeps today. Im surprised it was implemented in such an old vehicle
The first M3's that went to war didn't have the idler wheels spring loaded. Once in use in North Africa, the drivers discovered that the rough terrain would make the idler wheels snap off. Some mechanics figured out, made and installed the spring mounting by using available parts that the commanders bought from regional supply houses. They sent photographs and shop drawings of those to the Ordnance Department who in turn made and installed their own to test out. They were impressed so had those made and installed on all of the halftracks on the production lines and out in service at training camps and overseas.
Not too difficult to do if they're semi-automatic, just a bit pricey. Full auto M2s would be a bit more effort since he'd have pay for a $200 NFA tax stamp on each one, go through a few hoops & hurdles, fill out a bunch of paperwork, and then try to find some pre-1986 M2s for sale.
Portuguese troops mounted the same quad 50. call in Berliet Tramagal trucks during the Colonial War (1961-74). The engeniously conversion aimed to improve firepower during convoy escorts in the dangerous roads of Mozambique, Angola and Guinea and they proved to do so by just intimidating the guerrilla fighters preventing them to atack in first place. The Americans would do the same in Vietnam but adding more armor to ther trucks creating the infamous gun trucks
What i like about about Mr. chieftains work is that hes not just explaining about a vehicles history.. but hes showing all kind of stuffs to viewers too like knobs,dials, switches,gauges,what this thing or that do..how it works/functions etc..Infos like this makes his vids more interesting and fun to watch. I love it!! Keep it up Mr.Chietain Nicholas Moran.
During WWII my father-in-law worked for a US Government contractor in the Bremerton, WA area supplying equipment for the war effort. One of the last contracts they had in 1945 was taking M3 Half Track Tank Destroyers from North Africa and M16 half-Tracked Gun Carriages from Europe, and converting them back to Armored Personnel Carriers for the upcoming invasion of Japan. He said the vehicles were in very poor shape when they received them, but were like new when they finished with them. Of course the war ended before these APCs were needed.
I never got to ask my grandfather much about his service in Europe, mostly because there never was an opportunity to do so without things getting... uncomfortable. But from what I was able to gather, I did learn he did serve as a crew on one of these very vehicles. He was lucky to be away from his halftrack when a Stuka bombed it.
The problem with vacuum wipers (they used to be common in cars too) is that the engine produces the most vacuum when the throttle is CLOSED, because the pistons are trying to draw the air through the closed throttle valve. This means that the harder you are working the engine, the less vaccum you have. This usually means that harder you press the gas pedal, the less vacuum you have. The less vacuum you have, the slower the wipers go. So that's a problem. Probably not such a big deal in military vehicles which probably aren't bombing around at top speed anyway, and should have plenty of vacuum from the big engine trying to draw air through a little single barrel carb, no matter how far the throttle is open. In theory anyway. They do work though. and of course the simplest and safest solution is to not drive fast in the rain which is probably wise anyway.
There was an Anti Aircraft battery equipped with Quad .50s at the battle of Dien Bien Phu. In his book on the Battle Martin Windrow writes that they were one of the most effective weapon systems in the Battle. Particularly because of the mounts in the Indirect fire role.
My buddies grandfather was in Korea and used a quad mounted .50. my buddy tells me the grandfather said that during the human wave attacks by the Chinese. It worked very well, he shot untill the barrels glowed from the heat.
The Soviets: "Hold my beer." They came up with the 23mm ZSU-23. It's like a tank with a 4-barrelled turret. It was originally AAA, but adapted for ground use. Both sides are using it as an anti-personnel weapon in Syria in the most recent war. It's absolutely devastating.
I hear that if you stand in the middle of RIAH's stock room and speak the name "Ian McCollum" three times... ...someone will politely inform you "he's not here today."
My friends uncle is one of the top guys at this place. He buys a new top of the line corvette every two years and has a giant man cave of Harley’s hes put together
Had the joy of actually being in the gunner's seat and firing a few rounds out of this back in 1978. The 9th Infantry still had quad 50s mounted on 5 ton trucks. It's a small seat. They left the armor plate off the front to give the gunner a little more leg room! Great video! Thanks for sharing!
@@MrDgwphotos , Back in 1978, the 9th ID was a test bed of all sort of new equipment. I think they actually took some old 5 ton gun trucks out of moth balls as part of the trials. This is how I was fortunate enough have some brief fun with a gun truck. I was actually and ROTC cadet at the time. They asked a few questions about it I was one of the few cadets who knew what it was, so I got to take it for a spin and fire off a few rounds. I could see a reason to bring it back for urban warfare.
How does one get in the gunners seat? Does the armour front open side ways, lift up, or something else? I would have liked the Chieftain to have squeezed himself into the seat.
OneLeather Boot, the shield does hinge open but it was not even mounted on the one I sat in. The sighting bar swings out the way and you can easily sit down, depending on how large you are. Actually a little harder to get of because of how snug the fit is!
@@KnifeChatswithTobias, okay, so it swings out sideways. I thought as much. Thanks for the added detail. As a kid so many decades ago the Tamiya M16 MGC was one of the first plastic models I ever built, so I have a soft spot for it. Fast forward a few decades and reading Vietnam era history books about the gun mount being used on trailers for base defence, as well as on the gun trucks you mentioned shows how effective the quad 50 mount was. Everytime I see a technical in Libya, Syria, Iraq etc with a twin soviet ZSU AA on the back I think of the M16 MGC.
Ahh vacuum power. A lot of American vehicles used vacuum for all sorts of stuff, had them for hidden headlights in cars like the Lincoln Continental, they also had vacuum actuated windows and door locks and even seats. We used to own a 1984 Buick LeSaber and the seat would automatically move forward and the stearing wheel would rise with the gauges when the engine was turned on all under vacuum. Anyway, with an engine vacuum is basically "free energy" kinda like heat from the engine, and a vacuum system is fairly simple to design even if it did get crazy with some cars, especially in the 80s. Even today most brakes in your cars are boosted by engine vacuum. It's just back then motors where expensive and all the switching and electronic stuff was more expensive than pneumatic valves. In some industries like the oil or chemical industry where fire is a risk, there are entire basically simple logic computers that are pneumatic.
I once met a man who had served at the Pusan Perimeter. He talked about a battery of Puerto Rican National Guardsmen using these to 'mow the grass' in a valley that was a natural weak point in the UN line. Every morning around dawn, this one battery would line up facing into the valley and open up. Apparently it was a rare day when a follow-in patrol wouldn't find a mass of dead Chinese infantry who had been caught in the open by the gunners and thusly sawn into chunky salsa. That round has 6,000 foot-pounds of force (~8100 Joules) at the muzzle, enough to rip through anything that isn't armored or pass through several soft targets before finally losing velocity. 450 rounds per minute per gun, 200 rounds per gun, four guns, means each mount can put out 800 rounds in 26 seconds before needing to be reloaded. It's some pretty grim math once you start running the numbers.
And if your angle of incidence isn't too high, *each* projectile may have multiple opportunities to be effective. EDIT: which is exactly what you said... sorry 'bout that.
Knowing what I’ve seen from tire chains I bet those were a beast to keep on. Speed must have been at a crawl when using those or they would come off given the use on a track.
There was a guy on you tube set up and fired a quad .50 from an M16. They had to reverse the feed on two of the guns they wanted to use first before setting them on the mounts. The guns chopped through a breeze ( cinder) block wall easily on a range Really impressive piece if kit and one got a cameo in Band of Brothers.
I haven't gone there in a long time, but in the mid-80s, we used to drive up to Oshkosh, WI for enormous yearly fly-in and air show. They put on a WW2 simulation with fighters and bombers flying low, firing guns and dropping bombs - both fakes, of course, but the guns were real. They had two half-tracks with operational quad-.50s firing blanks in anti-aircraft mode. Maybe the best anti-aircraft mount of the war - not forgetting the Bofors, of course - and I would pay good money to be able to fire a few thousand blanks out of one.
Im a 14p avenger/stinger manpad/m shorad/c ram operator in the US army currently stationed in germany. This is the OG of short range air defense. I dabble in scale modeling and wanted to collect all the lineage and predecessors to the Avenger. Got the m6 linebacker, m247 sgt york, m163 vulcan, mim72 chaparral, m42 duster, and this m16 halftrack quad. I believe in the coming decades the avenger will be obsolete, replaced by the M shorad.
The Brits poke fun at American Armor/Bombers because we have a tendency to stick so many machine guns in our machines they look like porcupines. Americans like Dakadaka even if it's a bit excessive.
Surplus half tracks were used in the 1950's for a variety of purposes. Logging trucks, cranes, US Forest Service fire trucks, etc. I rode in one about 1955 that was owned by a rancher in the South Dakota badlands. He had removed all the armor and converted it to a flat bed. It worked great on steep packed dirt slopes. The big problem with vacuum windshield wipers is that the vacuum mostly disappears under heavy load like climbing hills and the wiper action slows to a crawl or stops altogether. Bad news in a snow storm. A quad 50 mount appears in the early part of Saving Private Ryan. Probably just a movie error but I wonder if the Germans did in fact make use of any captured quad 50s.
The Poor Man's Wirbelwind. And the most Bang for your buck in the smallest package. Four em deuce, no waiting! Interesting that the Italians converted an M14/41 into an SPAA using four 13.2mm heavy MGs. In both cases, there was little room for the obligatory canoneers (who spent a lot of their time reloading the MGs). That was also the problem with the otherwise seriously cool mounting of the Maxson on an M3 chassis. Which I want.
A million years ago, back when 1/36 Infantry was still 3/5 Cavalry, we used to have a *running* M3 half-track that Pretty Tony Cucolo would crank up for ceremonies
Re: vacuum systems and leaks Vacuum systems are WONDERFUL for improvised repair because if they do leak, they will draw a sealing compound in from the OUTSIDE, and they aren't making a mess while they're doing it. You can literally fix a cracked vacuum hose with chewing gum if you need to.
>luftwaffe newsreels. luftwaffe says it can "totally" destroy forces at dunkirk >carrier-based attack on pearl harbor ... >USA builds all the anti-air >builds all the fighter planes
Having grown up with several IHC tractors from the WW2 era (that are still running) I can imagine IHC overbuilt the M17 also. (Everything except the tires is steel lol.) At this time IHC manufactured their own steel, bearings, engines, etc. with really good, functional engineering for robust, uber-reliable products.
A Stalwart in the background :) The ignition key will more likely be for safety. It has happened in the past where a 'little darling' or member of the public has sat in the driver's seat at a show and started the vehicle up. If you're lucky they just get a fright but it has been known for MOP and kids to plough through expensive things.
My dad was in 1/2 tracks from 43 to 45. He said they were tough to get stuck, but if you did, you could garruntee that if you had 150 feet of cable on the winch. The closest tree would be 152 feet away! Hehehe
The air operated wipers were a PAIN in the you know what..Can't tell you HOW many of those I replaced in my 18 years on military vehicles..They worked fine ..until it rained..or snowed...lol
It may well still do so. If memory serves, combat rims still come in three pieces, the two main halves, and a bead locking rim which sortof overlays the two of them and is supposed to keep the tyre in place if it goes flat. I don't believe it's any safer to open incorrectly.
@@Wallyworld30 A Combat Rim, when deflated for tyre replacement comes apart by removing nuts from threaded studs. The Rim comes apart into three pieces, allowing easy installation of a new flap, tube, and tyre. Bolt the rim back together, inflate, done. No explosive dangers involved.
I have an original M16A2 number 315 of the 413 converted for use in Korea... Yes they do exist, and I concur regards the combat rim, it is not a split rim like that found on the Dodge M37 and other military vehicles from the 40s and 50s. Actually the tube and tire can be replaced on a combat rim with the wheel still on the vehicle. Regards changing track, a 1942 training film shows two soldiers replacing a thrown track in 9 minutes. I removed my drivers side track in 35 minutes by myself using the training film as my template. Going to shoot a video of both removal and installation of the passenger side track within the week for u-tube.
The Umatilla Army Depot, Oregon, had one of these that went on the auction block in the early '70's (?). One of the guys ( probably a Seabee ) from the Boardman Bombing Range ( NWSTF ) bid on it and won. Needing a place to drive and park it, they started to drive down to the range. Ran out of gas. Refilled a 5 gallon jerry can, ran a few miles, out of gas, refilled, drove some more, empty again. Finally made it thru the North gate after about 5 refills. They figured they were getting between 3 and 5 mpg. They ran it a little on the range ( gov't gas...? ) but couldn't afford too much fun. After it sat there awhile the Chief told them to get rid of it. They dug a trench into the desert sand at the dump near the old main compound, drove it in, and buried it ( wonder if the key was left in the ignition ? ). Heard that from a guy who came by the main compound on a weekend, showing his teenage son where he was stationed while in the Navy. He was one of the 1st four sailors sent down from Widbey Island to take over the range from the Air Force. Only truck they had was '60 Dodge Powerwagen. It was still there and in use up to '80's. A lot of buried stories out there in the high desert ... Can Do
The M45 is awesome! However, I would recommend piped-in "Aquatarkus" by Emerson Lake and Palmer for the guy behind the trigger. Or, perhaps "Ride of the Valkyries" if it was back in 1944.
love your videos i am a former military police officer and am fascinated by armour . love your commentary when you explain the vehicles . a fellow vet . I am Canadian just to let you know lol
(My Grandfather RIP, was the Gunner on one of these. He was the loader for a few days, until the gunner was badly injuired when one of the 50s misfired a casing into his thigh in France. So my Grandfather was gunner till Berlin)The 1943 White M16 MGMC only sold for $51,000 last year, and this one almost brought DOUBLE that! Guess I should have purchased an M16 last year?🤣
I drove deuce and a halves and 5 tons in the Army in the 80s. Still had those vacuum wipers. Okay for rain but in any kind of heavy snow they were worthless.
Sans a true tank, this would find a good home in you’re garage, I’d think. In addition to being an enjoyable vehicle, it probably much easier to do repairs than an Audi convertible. Thinking historically, recalling the Soviets use of 12.7 or 13 mm antitank rifles on the side armor of the panzer, was the M17 noted as an effective weapon against German armor?
Oh wow! Thank you so much! This is one of those models you just don't hear much talk about. (Honestly, that Engineer's Vehicle in the background. Over by the Pinzgauer? The crane. Yeah, that. That's a little more my speed. Since I was in the Corps of Engineers.)
somehow i think burt gummer would be wetting himself right about now, quad 50's for when dual 50's aint enough to counter a shrieker mega herd with some ass blasters thrown in
Based on my in depth research, to put one of these together, minimum $200,000 US. About half of that goes into 4 transferable M2 HMGs, and the rest into the M16 MGMC. I think the realistic minimum budget would be $400,000. That would allow for a minimal inventory of spare parts, and some ammunition.
We're still waiting on the contortionist video.., uh.., the M22 Locust :D Please, and I know there are a few driving ones in the US, if it was on one of those it would make my day.
I am so glad you provide us with these wonderful videos. Military vehicles are endlessly interesting and there is so much to see and learn it's even kind of overwhelming!
