I love the way he conned his buddy to get a free beer. "Can I borrow your phone? Mine has a dead battery." "I kinda think it's beer o'clock, do you want a beer?" Alright, free beer!
Dude is properly Chinese now. Back when I was in primary school in Beijing, we'd always say things like "can I borrow a piece of paper" or "can I borrow your eraser"? The papers are never returned, obviously. And the erasers are returned after we use it for a bit, meaning it's not "returned in full"-- just like his buddy's phone wallet was returned with a little bit of money gone.
@@oldskoolhead0 gets locked in* i guess you can smash the door but you also scanned your phone and in china phones are tied to your "social security" card so they can find you pretty easily probably
The cost per tag is way less than 6 cent when you buy in bulk. My company purchase tags from Alien Technology and pay a fraction of that price. In Europe the frequency is 868Mhz and you can read them from over 5-7 meters with the proper equipment. The major issue is metal or water in proximity to the tag or between the tag and reader. That is why they can't put the tags flat on the cans. The tags most likely just contain a I'd number of few bytes. The communication protocol is pretty advanced though because you need to be able to handle hundreds of tags in the same area so it implements collision handling where you can tell tags to sleep when you have read them. You can also reprogram them. Let me now if you want to know more.
Björn Nilsson sounds very promising, are there other limitations to this technology that prevents it from being adopted widely as a replacement to barcodes and/or backup to barcodes?
Joel Bright I don't have so much experience using it for that purpose, but as I remember, Walmart was planning to replace barcodes with rfid many years ago. Price used to be a big issue before, not sure if it still is, maybe for really low cost items. But barcode readers have evolved as well so I guess there isn't as big of an advantage using rfid and then the downsides are still there. You need to apply the tags, they stick out awkwardly, increase cost, read range can be challenging to control so you read tags far away or miss tags that are close. Etc.
> 5-7 meters with the proper equipment Years ago, when I was doing inventory for the store I worked at, I wished I could just RFID everything. A scan of the shelves would tally things up more accurately and would take a tenth of the time I did manually counting by hand.
I love his response to "it's not that hard". If I've learned anything from 18 yrs of software engineering, things often look simple until you try and then you realize how complex it is.
What is the law? I grew up in a family that owned a junkyard, my father owns an automotive repair shop. I learned very soon that the simplest path leads to the correct answer most of the time and everything else is a distraction. The problem usually is that when working on such a complex problem so many paths are available.
BigCliveDotcom is doing this for years, actually :P. Up to the point that watching some of his cheap Chinese USB chargers he got sent to from viewers has made me incredibly cautious about seeing people using them and without any reluctance handling their metal-cased phone....
Checked Chinese news, 兔兔到家 (the name of the cashierless shop), seems to be an indie/small group/startup operation that launched the shop from around 2017 but probably spent years in developing all the tech. Dont know how well its doing because its pretty much unknown on Chinese news except for in Yiwu.
I live in China and often travel to tier 1-2-3 cities and villages for my work. There are only a few such stores in China. The government does not like promoting anything that reduces employment. QED. What it does not mind doing however is allowing such companies to trial their products in Chinese cities (beta testing) so that they can then export them to developed western nations that wish to replace humans in stores (or don't have people for it). Australia, USA, Scandinavian remote regions... For example, Shenzhen, a hi tech city where you only see pure electric scooters on the pavements and roads, and where nearly all our street lights are solar powered LED, and 20% of the buses are electric, where most people make smaller payments using wechat bar codes (on their smart phones), there are just a handful of such stores. I havent even seen a single such store in Nanshan, even thoug there are tens of thousands of convenience stores and shops.
Keyword is UHF RFID. I used them in a project where the task was to do an inventory in a facility as fast as possible. Hand-held readers exits which puts out 1 to 3W of power and can read thousands of tags even as far as 5-7m away under 10 seconds. Basically we just entered the room, walked around for a minute and the inventory was done. "Traditional" RFID/NFC can only deal with one active tag.
Brafilus I'd assume that you can only do that in China. Outputting more than a few hundrete mW in Europe and the US in the 868 and 900 MHz Band is illegal ;-)
none of the tags shown where active tags. all of them were passive. most of rfid is passive tags anyways. and: you require a lot less power on UHF than you do for HF tags. HF Tags are working near field (magnetic component of the HF field) to transmit energy to the tag like a transformer. UHF tags are working in far field. HF systems by the way can work easily with 10-20 tags at the same time. Its all about anti-collision which works differently for UHF systems. There is really a lot of missconception around when it comes to buzzwords like RFID, NFC and all that sort of stuff...
Really interesting conversation, I understand how all of the technology that you are mentioning works. Like a key that if detected is registered in the system. The tag is only there to be identified not to perform calculations or respond. Most shops only need to know what items are stocked, how many of each are available and what items are being taken out of the store or coming in. Thus tags that are designed to be identified in bulk just make sense. Would only have to be on the lookout for people trying to destroy tags or cover them up in faraday cages. Passively monitoring everything in the store and having security on hand can be helpful in this situation. Makes so much sense I'm wondering what is stopping the technology from being adopted as a backup to the barcode system and eventually replacing it...
The tags need to be designed in such a was that they get destroyed or otherwise damages when the sticker is removed... Does not seem like it is though.
Christian von Delius if you are buying development boards (arduino, espruino, etc) or LCD panels it is perfect for that. But then you start buying big RFID readers, genuine security cameras (when it arrives first thing to do is install Dahua firmware to it and change password) and stuff like connectors or terminal blocks it goes too far. Then you discover things like RuiDeng power supply modules (only place they sell them) that are worth their money. Then you come across a Andonstar ADSM302 with free DHL shipping and you have no choice to buy it.
@@felenov So is Alibaba & Taobao better than Aliexpress? I have noticed the price of electronics keep going up and up and up on Aliexpress, my guess is simply because they can, because people will pay it. Are the prices on Alibaba & Taobao more reasonable than Aliexpress these days?
@@skins4thewin Sellers love playing with the prices. They raise the price and discount it. Or the moment the sale starts, prices go through the roof. So be careful and watch the prices, then you will be good. Also asking the seller to give more information about the product sometimes gets you a lower price
@@felenov Hm, I have only seen prices get raised from what I have seen, but perhaps that is due to the types of products I look for, which is mainly electronics and video game related items. I suppose because Americans are willing to pay more for them they feel they can raise the prices accordingly. Shame to hear that about prices going up during sales, that's a shame. Either way, do you think that either Alibaba or Taobao has better value than a place like Aliexpress? Am just curious.
I'm Chinese and I was wondering what's inside a cashier-less store like this, then I saw this video and everything explained. Keep it coming, really wanna see more!
I live in a 3-tier city in China and we have more than 2 cashier-less stores. I think there is another checker near the door to make sure its consumer has paid for his goods before the door opens.
I worked with RFID in the Late 1990s. The supplier I worked with was bought by Hughes ID (HID). They used standard HP inkjet ink to print paper tags for a project that we did with the Postal service. The standard HP ink jet ink is conductive enough to make a good antenna.
In a Spanish clothing shop, they use also rfid on every label price. but the coolest thing is, they have a device what can find the location of the tag. in other words, they can find thiefs even outside of the store and also its easier after shops closed to find all laying around clothes and hang these back to the belonging places.
Christian Schnitt what is the maximum distance you have been able to read one? I'm wanting to work on an experiment to see if I can make a very sensitive antenna to pick up lost pets RF chip. It would be awesome just to reach 200 feet
This is interesting. I’ve just found out that Uniqlo now are using rfid tags on every label. At first i dont know whats the function of these rfid tags that they put on the label. Wow. Do they really able to locate the location of the item eventho they are outside the shops? Thats crazy.
Same here in Finland, in my local grocery store they put those rfid stickers on some seemingly random, and usually low value products. I guess those are the most commonly stolen items.
Man, technology has come a long way. Who would have thought, say 50 years ago, that we would be able to have a cashier-less store and paper-thin, passively-powered tags that can be scanned by just being near the counter.
My guess is they use rfid because it's more thief proof than Barcode. Because with barcode you can scan cheap items but you actually bring out an expensive one. Or You can even go out without even paying anything.
Bar codes dont have the ability to send information back to the reader. As far as swapping RFID tags with a lower-priced product, there are ways to verify if something has been tampered with. Such as using a product's weight as verification. Many self-checkout systems (in the USA) use this method to catch would-be bar-code swappers. This is why after scanning an item, you usually have to place the item in the bagging area (which serves as a scale) so that the added weight can be checked against the known weight of each item. They may also use a camera to make sure the product visually matches the product reported by the RFID tag
Thank you for this episode. When I saw that store in Colin's Yiwu video, I was very curious about it, and hoped you would talk about it in a future episode.
Yeah, I was thinking the same. I think there was another QR code for you if you weren't buying anything. I may be wrong, but I was thinking about what if there was a power cut, and you'd be locked inside
I think there are probably cameras as well, but don't remember offhand. Petty theft like this doesn't seem to be as prominent here as a lot of other places I've been. Not to say it doesn't happen, but it happens a lot less as far as I can tell. So things can be more relaxed without it being a huge problem. For instance, I see bicycles and ebikes all the time that are just locked with a simple chain through the rear wheel...
maybe in the walls near the door they have another RFID reader that verifies that the data it reads match exactly with that of a recent purchase made...you know like guards outside malls do! just a guess
The RFID-tag does not transmit anything. You saw how it loaded down the transmitter on the frequency sweep he did on the miniVNA? RFID-tags communicate by modulating how much it's loading the transmitter. Say you have a small transmitter at 850 MHz and the chip gets near and loads down the transmitter. This can be detected in the power usage in the transmitter. The tag will modulate (morse code, on/off, just WAY more complicated) and the power usage figure is decoded and data comes out :)
You are describing an NFC (near field communication) chip read process. There the item needs to be placed very close, almost touching, the reader. This was an UHF RFID chip (completely different wavelength range), that can be read from meters away. It diffracts (reflects with alteration) back the signal it gets from the reader, and that's what the reader picks up. So it actually does send a response, not just cause a "disturbance in the Force" like in NFC.
Watching this, only one thing comes to my mind: My country Ghana and the entire African continent need to abandon our current educational system and adopt new ones that relates to practicals and creativity. How do you teach physics and the sciences at universities and import wheel-barrows? How do you teach wood technology in schools and import tooth picks? How do you teach all engineering course and yet all our roads are built by foreigners? God help me
South Africa has the same issue. The current president is gushing about the 4th Industrial Revolution benefits to the country, but doesn't take into account that a basic thing like electricity can go out at the drop of a dime. The basics aren't even properly in place, and they are already jumping over the intermediate to the advanced level of technology. For a person that is hungry and has no smartphone; of what use is free municipal wifi to that person? o.0
Unnamed Review Guy China still has a lot of high technology but many Foreigners don't know that China is a big innovator. China's rise has been unstoppable, and that is the trade war America has waged against China. America is bound to lose this trade war.
Fikri Rizaldi Kamil I don't know I tried ice-cream not the fruit by itself in China, it's not as bad as they make it look but I'm not a fan and can think of many delicious fruit.....it tastes bad...
It's just conductive ink antenna. You can get conductive ink for your printer and even for 3D printers. "It's not that hard"...... 😜🤣🤣 I love your optimism. 😂😂😂 I'd like to see your antenna results. Or rather your bumbling and stumbling into a sort of working results 🤓🤣👍 Great video man. Thanks for sharing.
Brandy Wasay no, the majority foreigners works in china as English teacher or reporters, don’t be salty just becuz others have better technology and living conditions than u do.
Not sure why it took so long to find out it was (obviously) an UHF chip... This is the most used frequency for asset tracking with cheaply produced tag. Nothing special here.
well, they could sell 100 through hole transistor for a dollar and thats including shipping cost. shouldn't surprise anyone if they could make one of those RFID tag under 2cents each.
any chance of exploring an e-reader/e-ink factory, like the screens made for kindle or kobo (lots on Alibaba, would be cool to see if company photos are real or fake as well)
I'm so glad Scotty is doing these videos. If you look around RU-vid, most people are just making videos about the worst things they can find in China to complain about for the bandwagon views. When I visited China it was extremely friendly towards Westerners and my only complaint is about the cigarette concentration, but that is also going down.
Honestly, all the videos that are on this channel make me interested in things I never would have cared about before. The way they’re presented is fantastic. I love the down to earth way you go about things and the way you are obviously excited about everything you come across. Keep it up 👍
Does it occur to you.. what is the purpose to open a self service shop in a country with over a billion ppl? Doesn't it create an imbalance of economy, if u have a shop u expect to sell goods to ppl for money, but on the flip side, ppl need to sell labor for money also. Jobs is in direct proportion to economic output/sustainability
In USA if there would have been put a similar one there it would not have been broken into or hacked into, the whole store would just have been plain stolen.
It is actually nice that Chinese society apparently has this level of integrity that this system will work. Sad note on American society that I agree with your comment.
Amazon Go primarily relies on computer vision (and scales). Amusingly enough, the company that makes these RFID chips (Impinj) is located next to Amazon's headquarters. I assume Amazon Go relies somewhat on crowdsourced verification of their computer vision analysis (via something like MTurk), so there's probably still some humans in the loop. The real question is whether computer vision (with human augmentation as needed) will end up being cheaper than putting a tag on each item. But with tags on everything, you can get more benefits: a fridge that knows expiration dates and potential product recalls of everything inside, automated recycling sorting, seamless returns based on the unique ID of the tag, etc.
awesomeferret actually Alibaba group, giant company just like Amazon in Asia. They have 20 outlets without cashier just like the only Amazon Go in Seattle. JD.ID X , first AI based supermarket in Asia outside China in Jakarta, Indonesia. I’m an Indonesian and surprisingly JD.ID X sells stuffs with the same price like other normal supermarket and even cheaper for special deals. You don’t even need to scan or put the groceries on the scanner just walk and confirm your face.
I remember reading an article several years ago that Walmart was actively researching options to attach tags to all retail products but they need the price of the tag technology to less than $0.01 per tag to meet their business demands. Also recently received a pair of Five Ten sneakers owned by ADIDAS company. When I was removing the cardboard paper tag from one of the shoes and noticed the paper splitting I discovered this same type of tag was sandwiched inside. So of course I rinsed off all the cardboard paper fivers from the sticky film the antenna and chip was attached to and wound up wit someone very closely to what you have. At fist I though it was a loss prevention tag but I now think its more an asset ID tag for contactless inventory and next gen POS purposes. Great video and god I bet that durian ice cream pop was interesting! LOL
That concept in its entirety is mad brilliant. If you could integrate RFID or NFC into the packaging, you could almost completely automate an American convenience store. You might have to have one or two employees for a 7 Eleven or Lawson scale store in order to maintain shelves authorize alcohol, tobacco, and gasoline sales, but it would make management and operation of them way easier. I could totally get behind this business model.
Hell yes to more RFID. Maybe even get one implanted. I have two and they're great for hacking. One even works with the local hackerspace door access system.
Those are called "UHF RFID Tags". The tranceiver is capable of reading muptiple tags at once. That means that you could have placed those items on a cash register in the shop at once (like in a shopping bag) and it would read all of them at once without a problem.
Guess we are all bound to have our phone as our wallet :) In Denmark it will probably be Mobile Pay app that wins. And lol that Durian ice cream...WTF, apparently the fruit is not allowed on public transport etc cause it stinks.
Vipps in Norway; the only place I still have to use a card to pay is in the local grocery store and Burger King who both signed up with a competitor that went out of business. Ideally I'll have an app on my watch soon so I don't have to bring my phone either.
Whats to stop someone paying for the cheapest item and ripping off the tags and stealing a heap of other items? Is it an honesty system or is there other types of security?
besides all the Skynet and other crazy stuff, manless shops make sense as long as the system is good enough to keep the lost on shoplifting less than hiring a cashier
It's not very hard for someone to stealthly sneak a tag off of the item you take and put it on another item on the shelves, and then keep that out of the camera's line of sight, they won't know you took a extra item, and can't prove it in theory since the tag is still in the shop, plus their system doesn't alert them of shoplifting of removed tags if said unpaid tag does not go anywhere near the door. Remember that all systems can't be fool proofed, unless you weld the tags to said items so it's not removable, OR hide it on said product so one would not know where to look to remove it..
@@jackdavies5331 way way less when buying bulk more like 5-10, I work for a big retail store we pay 8c for 1 water bottle, of course we buy huge amounts so maybe that's it
They need somebody to keep an inventory of stock and stack shelves and to set prices for the items in the system also label prices on items and notify customers of offers as well as to keep the premises clean
I've seen the future it's evil. They are putting this crap into humans and rendering it the sole means of exchange in places. Through it corporations and governments can even track your every movement. No good comes from this technology. No good ever will come from this technology. Destroy it while you still have the chance lest you be rendered branded cattle.
@@l.m2517 And then other people advanced it for more uses, which is perfectly okay, which is unfortunately also exactly the process of "stealing technology" by some accusers.
-OMGitsAmal - Hmm...according to that logic, say, 60 years ago, a specific percentage of unemployment was directly caused by the lack of convenience stores having been invented yet. ....people just find new jobs....The world is alot more dynamic than you treat it to be.
@@ChadDidNothingWrong AI is gonna be diff. than any new tech that are still considered tools. Just bc previous generations survived through does not mean is gonna be the same every time, the past is meant to be a reference, not a reliance.
Steward is right: Antennas are very difficult. At frequencies above say 200MHz, things you think of as wires suddenly behave like inductors, having parasitic capacitances etc etc. Stuff starts to depend on how the wires are in relation to other wires etc etc..... That said... You've pulled off stuff before that I consider "very hard".. But you'll be forgiven if you end up having to buy a pre-built reader from somewhere. :-)
Why do you ask if we would like to see when you try to make your own antenna? You know we do, all your videos are amazing! Always joy and lots of fun when a new Strange Parts video pops up! :)
No wonder there's no local people shopping here. I guess it's still a experimental store and what the owner wants to do is to prove its technical feasibility rather than make huge profit.
antenna stuff is RF voodoo .. you need to know about the various antenna topologies, reactance, passive filters etc .. not easy. Also you need a test / measuring setup
Those stickers look like UHF RFID tags (UHF can have pretty huge read ranges). They come in an insane variety of antenna shapes and ICs (depending if you want read only, or user writable data, or even onboard sensors if you want active tags). The copper coil ones however (like tap cards) are probably LF or HF RFID. They aren't designed for longer range reads (because you only want to read at a close proximity).
