Good day Ron I highly appreciate the man you are and all you do. I've been watching you for years. Thank you so much for your wonderful wonderful presentation.
I saw another video (this old house) where the installer used a large hole saw to install the PLASTIC venting from his unit. Trouble was that it was very low on the outside of the building,and since it was a house in Milwaukee,Wisconsin; the first big snowfall would clog the vent...your venting configuration made a lot more sense.
Great video! In my case I don’t have gas in my neighbourhood so I purchased an electric tankless water heater, Stiebel Eltron brand which I found at a liquidation price. I sized it up for my home needs and got the appropriate model. Purchase the appropriate breakers in my case I needed two 50 amp breakers and a role of 6/2 gauge wire. Did the math to make sure I had the right service entrance panel and amperage, installed it in about 3 hours. I live in a cold climate where sometimes the temperature goes to -20 or -30 Celsius ( about -15 Fahrenheit) I never run out of hot water, and the temperature is always constant. Cost me about $900.00
@@DavidA-411 Hi David, I just looked at my annual electric bill for the past two years and between August 2017 and 2018 total was $2609.29 ( $217.44 monthly average or $7.15/day) and between August 2018 and 2019 total was $1932.26 ($161.02 monthly average or $5.22/day) so did it go down because I'm now using a tankless or is this because of weather conditions, I don't know but I'll see this coming year what my electric bill will be. My house is 1200 square feet and the amounts above are all in Canadian dollars.
@@charliem.7492 It's "ouch" but keep in mind it's also $0 for oil and $0 for gas. It really just depends on the relative costs of different types of fuel where you live.
Wonderful video, of course, I always been a fan of House Calls. I meet you at Orchard Hardware store many years ago. I will always remember the friendly conversation we had. THANKS
First time watching any of your videos. I gotta say, great video. Very detailed steps and even though I didn't need to watch the whole thing, I found it enjoyable to do so. Definitely look forward to new content.
great choice ron. tankless just keeps getting better & better. paloma makes tankless for rheem. they even have a condensing tankless that has an energy efficiency factor of around 96%. nice heater- I have one in my house. an added bonus? the condensing version uses 3" sch.40 pvc pipe for venting.
Retired to Mexico 4 years ago. Most hot water sources here is via tankless water heaters. Propane gas & electric (battery) ignition. Same with the stove and oven. Works great! Efficient and cheap. I love it! 👍
I did customer service in the field for 35 years for a water utility. It was my job to respond to stuff like this. 75% of the time issues were in customers plumbing like this break down of a sacrificial diode in the water heater. Tankless need to be cleaned because the coils filled with constant hot water will build mineral deposits and get in customers plumbing. Its wise to add a filter and a clean out for periodic removal of mineral deposits.
Absolutely, I have a filter system in my house and its amazing the debit sediments, in the filter I've seen from the city that supplies my house water..
Thank you VM. I find ur vid VERY informative. I have the option to go old school hot water tank, or tankless. My old G.E. 2010 natural gas heater died last week. I use city water which, here, is a bit above avg grade FPSM. Imagine entering a house with the intent to buy it, built in 1957 and standing face to face with a spanking new, tankless, endless hot water heater! HOT! Ohhhh Yeaaahhh.
I installed a gas tankless in my house twenty years ago. I have never had problems with it because I only plumbed the shower/tub and clothes washer to it. I figured turning it on and off just to get a little hot water at the sinks in kitchen and bathroom will cause it to breakdown sooner than later. Besides it isn’t instant like a typical hot water tank because the chamber has to heat up so it runs a tad bit before hot water comes out of it, then has to get to its destination. I use a six gallon electric water tank under the kitchen sink to provide hot water to it and the bathroom sink. My only regret is having one while married as I don’t think you will save money with unlimited hot shower water with a women in the house.
Glad to see the US is catching up with the UK at last. We have had combination boilers ('Tankless system') for 30 years or more. They are highly efficient and require just annual servicing and minimal maintenance. Welcome to the 20th century.
@@@Nietyp The outdoor fan unit of an air source heat pump usually takes up as much space as a washing machine. ... On the other hand, some modern boilers (or 'combi' boilers) take away the need for a hot water cylinder altogether, heating water straight from the water mains. Air source heat pumps run on electricity. the average value for greenhouse gasses emitted per kWh of electricity is 0.54702 kgCO2eq/kWh, whereas for gas this is 0.20435 kgCO2eq/kWh. If we assume that the alternative to a heat pump would be a new gas boiler at 90% efficiency (e.g. www.boilers.org) then in order for an air source heat pump to have a lower level of greenhouse gas emissions, it would need to have a COP of over 2.41 Whole life cost for heat pump over 15 years £17,940.40 Whole life cost for oil boiler over 15 years £14,784.00
@@@z14film31 Instead of being a keyboard warrior troll you need to do some research. A Combi boiler and a tankless system are virtually identical. Tankless units (also called “on demand” units or an instant hot water heater) heat water only when you turn on the faucet. A combination or 'combi' boiler is both a high efficiency water heater and a central heating boiler in a single compact unit. Combi boilers heat water directly from the mains when you turn on a tap, so you won't need a hot water storage cylinder or a cold water storage tank in the roof space. Welcome to the 20th century
Tank-less water heaters require periodic de-scaling. This involves circulating a de-scaling solution through the heater. For most units, this means that you need a set of valves and T connectors to tap into the water lines. You can find kits for this that include specialized fitting made for this purpose. It also means that you need a circulating pump, a couple of hoses, and the chemical to make the solution. These components are also available in a kit. You also need to remember to perform this service once a year or so, and replenish the chemical. The consequence of not de-scaling the tank-less heater is cold showers, until you perform the de-scaling. Tank heaters should also be flushed once a year. The consequence of not flushing a tank heater is more frequent replacement of the heater. Another benefit of tank-less is that you don't need to keep a tank full of hot water in your house. Tank-less heaters only heat the water when the water is running. This can result in lower energy cost, depending on your usage pattern.
Mike Edwards : Another benefit of a tank-less water heater is that you also save water because you don’t need to wait for the hot water to come out from the faucet.
@@ajarivas72 Absolutely incorrect. A tankless water heater provides "endless" hot water, but it does not provide instant hot water. The delay in getting hot water at the tap is caused by the volume of water in the pipe between the tap and the water heater. The type of water heater does nothing to change this. The only way to get near-instant hot water at the tap is to install a recirculating loop and pump, which keeps the line charged with hot water.
@@jeffeverde1 Thanks for your reply and insight. Another way to get instant hot water at the tap or shower is to pre-heat the water in the pipe with an induction coil (steel pipes) or electric resistance
You can save money by buying 3 gallons of distilled white vinegar to circulate and de-scale the inside tubing of the water heater instead of the chemical de-scaler.
@@b-rainwash410I have a BOSCH-JUNKERS Tankless water heater I haven't touch it in its first 10 years and it was working like a charm! Now it's it is 16 and still doing well with some inexpensive parts being replaced!
Great diy job sir. You really nailed home the reason why companies charge so much for this but if your handy with tools and know how you can save alot of money.
There's pros and cons to everything. You need to know your needs are. And of course cost. Regular water heaters are pretty efficient now and you can put insulation blankets on them. Works well. Maintenance is key. 👍😉
George B most of the time where i live. A tank style water heater is either in the garage or house. Neither of those get cold enough for a new foam filled water heater to make it a good idea to install a blanket on a water heater
@@Gitarzan66 Using TV magic anything is possible - the cost of install will be $$$ higher & maintenance $. Lower cost of operation will pay you back over the years...
6 years ago I bought my propane outdoor tankless and all hardware from home depot, little over 900$ investment. Installed myself. To date have saved more than 4000$ compared to when had tank in basement. If you plan and execute correctly you benefit.
Good job ron you just made 100s of people who have no business messing with potable water lines and natural gas become weekend warriors.. this is why Monday’s are also so busy at plumbing companies.
Looking at your copper pipes. We installed copper in our rebuild about 25 years ago. Did not know that acidic water will cause problems with copper pipes... Learned real fast when the toilet bowls turned bright green. It pays to make sure your water is neutral ph. We had to install a rather pricey filter system since the green meant the copper was quickly corroding and we'd have had leaking pipes in a few short years.
The water heater didn't need replaced. Remove the water heater to your yard, and using a long dowel rod (longer than the water heater is tall by at least a foot) the old plastic tube will break up easily (remember the defect its fragile from years of use). Remove the drain valve completely and connect a garden hose to the hot water output. Turn on the hose, and lean the unit some. Gently roll the unit back and forth. Look in the heater to see if its all out, if not repeat. install your new tube, and the drain valve (or a new one). Optionally replace the pressure relief valve while your there and any other common failure points, then reinstall. Works on gas or electric water heaters.
I was thinking the same thing that the tank did not look like it needed replacing. What I would have done is take out the dip tube, anode rod, and drain valve. Duct tape a piece of pipe to the shop vac hose, stick it in through the open ports, and vacuum up the debris. Use a bore/endoscope if you got one for visual confirmation. Install new dip tube, anode, and a proper brass ball valve for a drain and Bob's your uncle... He did a really nice job of installing the tankless unit though. I just think he really wanted one and the debris in the tank was a great excuse. Not that that's a bad thing...I might have taken the same opportunity given the option.
You have young enough kids that use a rubber ducky? With condensing units today, the instruction is much different on installation. The plumbers were very thorough in this install.
Thanks for this video. I understand that I will probably have to upgrade my gas service to the heater to 3/4 inch. Not a big deal, I have a 1 inch gas service just outside the wall of where this will sit. Cut out some sheet rock and some simple plumbing. What I don't understand is why there is a new exhaust is installed. I already have a 4 inch double wall pipe already thru the roof.
I have had a tankless water heater for 9 years. I rent it from my gas utility. It has never been descaled, they say it's not necessary unless there is a problem. Twice i had a spider build a nest inside not allowing it to work but it's a quick job by my utility to remove it at no charge to me. I can't say it has saved me any money as it takes a little longer to get hot water from the tap so i use a little more water but once it's there it will supply hot water forever if you want.
An HVAC tech suggested that I install a pre and post water filter for use with a tankless water heater to help deal with scale and mineral buildup inside the heat exchanger.
jburr36 YES, a great idea, but if you are wondering ,why the ‘post ‘unit, that is usually a filter, I would use a ‘Y’ STRAINER that can be cleaned, the reason for that is little pieces of minerals, without, when the homer starts seeing them,,THEN ITS TIME TO. DESCALE THE UNIT, Cheers From NJ🇺🇸
Great video sir, one point that you made which was right, but wanted to give another perspective on it is that yes plumbers bend the solder to get around the pipe, but if you notice we also usually bend a certain amount. That is because when you solder you should use the size of the pipe as how much solder you need to use (1/2 pipe, you should use half inch of solder) other than that great video
Nice video but let's go over the shortcomings not discussed in the video.#1 you should always contact your local gas utility of your intention of adding more gas load to the system. I'm sure you went from 40,000 to 50,000 BTUs and increased to around 200,000 BTUs ( Let the utility come out and make sure the equipment is sized for the added load. There usually is no cost for this).#2 let's size your current fuel run to make sure it can handle the added load from the point they tied in the csst back to the gas meter. This is called the longest run method and you will need total BTUs of the house and length of total piping.#3 considering your installer used yellow csst and not Counter-Strike csst you should have went over the whole bonding installation method all the way back to the main ground rod of your electric service panel ( this is mandatory for yellow csst per the national electric and fuel codes).#4 exposed csst not covered by the jacket should always be taped with an approved coatng at these points. My expertise comes from 35 years in the gas utility industry . I am currently retired and consult from time to time on gas installations such as this one, when incidents occur due to improper installations.
Not to mention a cheap sniffer is not an accurate leak check. They should have run a manometer test on the system. Another thing I noticed is that they installed the shut off valve after the sediment trap which is against code. Third paloma heaters are junk. Fourth why spend all that time on running water lines perfectly and then run csst strapped to the joists and wall. Hard pipe would have been a much cleaner installation.
@@richardhintersehr9014 you're my kind of technician. I can assure you there is a lot of contractors out there who don't even know how to perform a manometer test on fuel runs ( scary huh ?).
15 years of natural and propane gas installation and service have taught me how things can and should be done. I would've much rather seen him use a Rinnai or Noritz heater and an actual gas technician instead of a plumber to do the gas work. Just because a master plumbing license gives you the right to do has work doesn't mean you have the ability...
Excellent presentation!!! Just one thought. On the vent pipe outside. Wouldn't it have been better to just come out the wall with a much shorter pipe and put a vent cap on it? The goose neck seems long and can be nuisance and easily bump into.
I have a tankless electric water heater and had to put a small tank heater in the line after the tankless. That way it acts as a buffer and I always have instant hot water and no change in water temperature. Both operate on 220V. The electric instant heater is 100 amps and will supply as much hot water as you can use. I also put a 2.5 gallon electric tank in line under the kitchen sink. That way we have instant hot water for the sink and dishwasher.
@@flybyairplane3528 I guess I did not explain my set up properly. There is 20 feet of 3/4 copper to my kitchen so too avoid a long wait for hot water in the kitchen I installed a 2.5 gal tank under the kitchen sink .The 20 gal tank after the tankless supplies us hot water during the day. It is on a timer and only works at night when our electricity rates are lower. It is over 30 cents per kilowatt for electricity here during the day. We have whats called (Time of Use) electricity rates here in Ontario. The small tank saves us several hundreds of dollars a year. Cheers
Retired Snowbird SEE I would have zero idea, whereby our are located, but your electric should be CHEAPER THAN MINE IN NJ, anyhow I now see your reasoning, Check this out, in CHATUGAY , QUIBECK, my wife’s aunt nought a little house there, she had oil heat, can you guess what the ELECTRIC COMPANY DID ? They removed her oil unit, then INSTALLED A NEW ELECTRIC FURNACE, as it WAS CHEAPER than oil, HYDRO QUEBEC!, She has now passed many years now. Cheers From NJUSA🇨🇦🇺🇸
So what is the cost-benefit analysis? New water tank, the energy efficiency of tankless vs. tank, versus install costs for the average homeowner having to pay a plumber for the entire job.? Great video, by the way. You have a better on-camera personality than half those people on HGTV.
There are a lot of variables, like how much hot water you use, how often you go away (i.e., not using any hot water) and what your water and gas (or electricity) costs. Generally, though, I've read that tankless units pay for themselves in 5 - 7 years, and also last longer, because they don't need the maintenance that a tank needs. That is, I think, if you install it yourself. If you it the way Ron does and have a plumber run the pipes, but do everything else yourself, your cost will take longer to recover. Having a plumber do it all will take even longer. My personal opinion is that tankless is definitely worth it. You don't have 50 gallons of water held at 120 degrees 24/7, which seems incredibly inefficient to me. When our tank goes, my wife and I plan on going tankless. What does kind of suck, though, is that if the power was out, you wouldn't have hot water. Luckily, that has happened twice in the 15 years we've been in our house, and both times it was only for a couple hours.
@@scottplumer3668 Thanks for the reply. I put in a timer and only run our water heater between 12-3 PM to save some money. Our water heater is only 4 years old and of good quality, so it holds the heat good. You bring up some good points to consider Scott - Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. Have a great week.
Thanks, quite informative. Now we will be doing something similar to our park model trailer. However with a propane system, it also requires a water filtration system. Anything will be better than the less than 5 gallon tank we currently use!
mines 2 years newer but no filtration system was needed. there is a drain tube for the water coming off the propane to go into floor drain - but after 1 year of use, only several ounces was produced from use.
anyone wanting this, the only drawback is you should make a cleanout valve. You can use white vinegar in the cleanout valve to keep hard water deposits (scale) from building up. Areas that have very hard water, should be cleaned out about once every 3 months, and the norm is about once every 6 months.
They sell kits for adding the valves and it looks super clean ! If you don't flush it ,every six months or so , u lose the efficiency of the heater and could cause it to fail all together.
@@dogelife7901 True but natural gas is way more $$ efficient then electric and odds of it not working during a power outage is minimal. All you need is a small generator with 120v to power it vs one with a 240v outlet.
RON,I HAD NOT SEEN ANY PALOMA UNITS, AS RHEEM BOUGHT THE BRAND, I RECALL MANY YEARS AGO WHEN THAT BRAND HIT USA, HOWEVER YOU DID NOT INSTALL A CLEANOUT PIPING SETUP, WEBSTONE MAKES IT SO EASY, 🇯🇵🇯🇵🇺🇸🇺🇸
